if you dont like LONG WELL THOUGHT OUT WALLS OF TEXTS skip to the TL/DR section at the bottom.

Ok, when i bought CO i was swearing to myself - i WONT focus on PvP, i will stick to PvE fun with my friends and family.

That promise i broke, of course. Just a few words - i am a gaming vet and PvP junky (competitive starcraft and Q2 is where it all started), WoW S3 glad, pre BC rank 11, DotA addict, i can go on.
Not to brag - actually nothing to brag about those stats are usual for a lot of people who love competitive gaming - just to assure you i do have some experience.

So i love melee. I always end up with a melee char in almost any game i play that give me an option to play melee, barb/paladin in diablo, warrior/rogue/ench sham in WoW, monk in EQ2, every game that let me play a melee got me as melee.

So i started a melee char, of course, a laser knight PA build, and for a pure fun and aesthetic part of it. Not like it sucked in 20s bracket, at all. i still could contribute to team with thunderbolt lunge > 3/4 LS striker to take down focused target while i was really hard to kill, even on the offense. But i felt so jealous seeing those 14-0 records from some of the others, and also i was rather annoyed by same guys while they were in the opposite teams.

So i made another char, just for fun, melee, ofc. Dual ego blade shadow form bronze goddess. geez she is so sexy. i took teleport to try it out in PvP and a channeled heal to play a strike/vanish tactics. needles to say i failed terribly - TK snare simply doesnt work so i spent most of my time flying and healing, while being chased by shotgan/minimines/force blast/condemn/electrocute/taser arrow spamming crowd.

my usual score was like - 3-1, or 0-0 even because its really hard to land a kill on a smart TP player, only if he wants to take risk.

So what i did, i bet you already guessed - i said - ok thats enough i am going to minmax myself. so i made a ice shards/force blast/condemn/regenerate/force shield/TP/Con superstat monstrocity.

all of a sudden, a am extremely skilled. 14-0 every third game, 1-2 deaths at max, i laugh in the face of shotgun/miners, because - for real, force/condemn(electrocute/taser arrow) is so much more dangerous build.

you might say - wow, you compare a min/max character to a random fun character. no i dont. i compare ranged framework + specific balance breaking abilities with everything else. my TK and PA characters were designed with PvP in mind still their POWER LEVEL is not even over 1k, while my Force char is over 9 thousand, for shizzle.
in no game you can see that kind of balance, at least that comes to my mind. in WoW or a WaR on early level literally every class can compete with others, ofc there are options that are stronger then others but not by that margin. Twinks in WoW are nonrelevant since you need to spend a lot of time/gold to develop one, they are not ability based.

TL/DR, or my constructive feedback to devs.
1. Teleport (and burrowing) MUST go, sadly. in current version its absolutely, grossly imbalanced. In no way you should have a short cooldown power that removes any threat from you in PvP. Either a really long cooldoown should be put on it, or ability to still target and shoot through teleport when the player is visible/near, or any other that devs will find appropriate. right now - its a mess.
2. Melee should be rethought and reworked. Melee snares should be more powerful then ranged (sup Chill!), have shorter CD (sup Chill! oh wait!) and be more reliable. Also with big enough lag its really hard to register a melee special on a running/travel power using player at all - basically you can HIT with your melee non energy builder only when your target is snared or stunned.
2.1 Melee should have a reliable and easy way to overcome/remove active blocking. to be effective, melee character should maintain a very close range to his target. with snare immunity its very hard to actually maintain pressure on a target because a smart player will simply block your series after snare application and then run away with immunity leaving you with no option and utterly dropping your effectiveness in time.
3. Knockback should give some sort of immunity, but this was said too much times already and is rather obvious.
4. some abilities MUST be toned down/tweaked, Minimines are first on this list. no matter how much stupid arguments those who defend them present (LOL DONT GO IN THEM! LOL IRON LARIAT/SPAM THEM WHILE HELD/KNOCKDOWN!) they are absolutely stupid right now - too much damage for too small effort.

final words - please note i am NOT trying to forge a competitive gaming level PvP, thats impossible right. these advices are merely and attempt to make PvP in his game FUN for a broader audience.

At least i play because that thing.

This is pretty much what I said in my thread about teleporting has to stop. The difference in a min/max build and concept fun build (and I'm including in this any build without TP and a 100-0 combo) is too great. If it could be quantified mathematically, 2x or 3x better is reasonable. But we're talking a guy with teleport and any of the 100-0 combos being at least 10 times better than a concept hero. And thats being generous because technically unless the guy with teleport dies because he is too dumb to know when to run, he'll never die, which is hard to quantify.


I dont even know if I should care because no one should be playing this game for pvp. There will never be any epeen or esports or online fame associated with it. Maybe it should just be a imbalanced bunch of TP assassins.

This game has such a long way to go to balance things I don't know if it will ever be done. Even if they changed the handful of currently ridiculous skills they'd still need to change some very basic things like melee inadequacy. And then there's still a bunch of semi OP skills, such as the ice energy builder being far superior to all other energy builders. Because of chill. I actually made a fire / archery PVP guy with the ice energy builder. I purposefully gimped myself skill selection wise for 15 levels. Because its that much better than the archery or fire energy builders. And thats just what I consider a 'semi OP' skill.

I never had much problems with burrow, but haven't run into a ton of people who use it. I feel the wind-up time for it in pvp is just right. It takes so long to get in and out of it, that they are out of the fight much longer than the time they're actually invulnerable.

I think they could fix teleport without outright "nerfing" it.
Don't let people use potions while teleporting. Give them the 15 second penalty when they come out of teleport again - it's just complete garbage that I can repeatedly teleport while being attacked.
These changes will still leave teleport as the best "get out of jail" travel power.

I know you can beat teleporters, and I know this thread will get a lot of "game is fine l2p" responses. Having said that, I challenge anyone who defends teleport as being balanced with the other travel powers to come up with a build that benefits more from superjump / acrobatics than teleport.

Guaranteed that anyone who defends teleport by saying "l2p" is using it as a cructh because they're just so excited that they found a game they're apparently awesome at after being mediocre/bad in everything else. Anyone with any skill or basic game design/balancing ability knows its OP. My two gladiator partners for 5 seasons watched me pvp for less than 2 minutes and both concluded teleport was the most broken ability they've ever seen. This is despite the fact I was doing combos that fully killed a guy where he was only in control of his character the first few seconds (even then it was a root).


But then again, if this is what we're starting from, its going to be a while before PvP is balanced. Which is okay because to me and most others this is a pve game strictly.

Glad I did. sounds basically like the other 500 crybaby..."WAAA this is too overpowered and im lazy to get the counter so ima go cry on the forum" posts. sorry if i misinturpreted tho.

I'm throwing down the gauntlet!

My Dualblade (Dual AXES) Lightning reflex/Bionic shielding toon would love to meet you, his office is the third on the right down the long hall to your left

TP is great on him....for PVE, for PVP, Acro makes him a f*****g NIGHTMARE snare/AOE spamfest who's tougher to bring down that a regen because he's dex-stacked to upwards of 84% odd dodge WITHOUT masterful dodge clicked on

Acro lets him abuse speed AND jumping to make him nearly impossible to follow in a fight, DB's energy return means i can just spam any number of heavy hits in a chain without ever using energy, and i crit almost every hit for upwards of 200 odd damage at 14, with even eye of the storm spam

Now obviously, at 14 my options are hilariously limited as to what i can do in pvp, but i still hold my own, if i can pull someone alone, or i'm the last person standing, it requires a LOT of dumb luck and timing to break him down, since any dodge from him turns into a mini-unbreakable

but hey, i'm just a teleporter on every toon i have (even him, Currently, it helps with the levelling as melee pure (Stupid F-----g range)) i mean, what do I know about abusing travel powers, line of sight, and stacking the right stats for "Terrible" abilities? :p

You can't outrun or catch up with anything when chilled in acrobatics. Teleport speeds is unaffected by it.

Just for the record I was fine with the way teleport was (the 15 second cooldown). However I don't see how using two of the bottom travel powers as a baseline is helping things.

If you're going to "nerf" TP, then nerf everything. Flight, superspeed etc. should all get more suppression. Tell me it's not easy to fly around and regen at top speed. Can you use potions while in flight? If you can't in TP then why should you be able to in any other travel power?

Why shouldn't you be able to teleport while being attacked? Can you fly at top speed while being attacked? You are asking for a big nerf to one power without thinking about the rest.

My main problem with acrobatics is that you will need a flight power to not be at a disadvantage vs flying people, and then you wont be able to take teleport. Throwing crap at them or otherwise disabling their flight is not a long term solution because then your damage output becomes a sporadic chain of get them to the ground, do 1 attack, watch them fly up again. You have to repeat this like 10 times to kill anything, and somehow keep them from just flying away to heal, which is really a lot of work.

I like acrobatics, I think if everyone stayed on the ground it would be crazy, but so few people do that its tough to work with. And incidentally I see this as teleport's only weakness, the fact that you cannot use your close range attacks vs flying people and therefore see a cut in your damage output.