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Durng the end of Beta many voices were raised in concern over the XP curve. Namely, were players reaching content at the right level. Cryptic representatives have stated the XP awards are now close to intended.
However, I am increasingly concerned that this is only half the argument. Not only do Devs have to consider XP rate, they also need to consider difficulty.
- How difficult is this content for a rookie player, new to the content?
- How difficult is this content for a seasoned player, who has seen the content before?
- How difficult is this content for a veteran MMO player?
In a sense, these extremes "bracket" the low-high range of TIME (not XP) required to advance.
Now, as it stands, there are worrying comments on theses forums that players are already at 30. At some point, relatively soon, these players and others, are -allegedly- going to run out of content.
Now, let me introduce the idea of the 'difficulty curve'. If this curve is too low, too shallow, too extended and content is lacking in any real challenge, players will eat any new content quicker than creators can realistically be expected to create it. If this curve is too steep, too arduous, the game will become work and not play.
My Own perspective:
That all said, is there currently a problem with the game being too easy, for too long? From personal perspective, I only ever became 'challenged' as a player, when I got to level 15 and did Fight Club with a friend so I was at least a level early. I felt rewarded because I had to corner pull and use my head.
Similarly, with a Might character I fought Foxbat with a poorly built Hero and was beating him just using 1st and 2nd powers. I only charged up an attack, to speed it up. I did not feel threatened. Maybe I got lucky.
Even so, I feel the dificulty curve is too lenient, for too long (1-15 essentially). The enemies do not seem to have enough 'tricks up their sleeves' to overcome the versatility of builds which players are using.
Important: The point being the enemies are not tough enough, exotic enough to make fights prolonged to extend combat, to extend content. ie. Enemies need a buff. Powers are fine.
I would welcome others views on this. Are you feeling challenged by the game? Solo and in teams?
However, I am increasingly concerned that this is only half the argument. Not only do Devs have to consider XP rate, they also need to consider difficulty.
- How difficult is this content for a rookie player, new to the content?
- How difficult is this content for a seasoned player, who has seen the content before?
- How difficult is this content for a veteran MMO player?
In a sense, these extremes "bracket" the low-high range of TIME (not XP) required to advance.
Now, as it stands, there are worrying comments on theses forums that players are already at 30. At some point, relatively soon, these players and others, are -allegedly- going to run out of content.
Now, let me introduce the idea of the 'difficulty curve'. If this curve is too low, too shallow, too extended and content is lacking in any real challenge, players will eat any new content quicker than creators can realistically be expected to create it. If this curve is too steep, too arduous, the game will become work and not play.
My Own perspective:
That all said, is there currently a problem with the game being too easy, for too long? From personal perspective, I only ever became 'challenged' as a player, when I got to level 15 and did Fight Club with a friend so I was at least a level early. I felt rewarded because I had to corner pull and use my head.
Similarly, with a Might character I fought Foxbat with a poorly built Hero and was beating him just using 1st and 2nd powers. I only charged up an attack, to speed it up. I did not feel threatened. Maybe I got lucky.
Even so, I feel the dificulty curve is too lenient, for too long (1-15 essentially). The enemies do not seem to have enough 'tricks up their sleeves' to overcome the versatility of builds which players are using.
Important: The point being the enemies are not tough enough, exotic enough to make fights prolonged to extend combat, to extend content. ie. Enemies need a buff. Powers are fine.
I would welcome others views on this. Are you feeling challenged by the game? Solo and in teams?
# 2
08-29-2009, 09:00 AM
The only problem I have with raising the difficulty of enemies is the extreme lack of experience they give. Right now, they're just not worth killing except for as quest objectives.
There also seems to be a sharp increase in difficulty around level 20 or so. I think it would be better if it were more of a gradual thing.
But difficulty is a tricky thing. What's difficult to some is tedious or frustrating to others. In CoH, at one point the devs made the enemies more difficult by giving them more CC. Everyone hated that, even though they had been complaining that the game was too easy before.
There also seems to be a sharp increase in difficulty around level 20 or so. I think it would be better if it were more of a gradual thing.
But difficulty is a tricky thing. What's difficult to some is tedious or frustrating to others. In CoH, at one point the devs made the enemies more difficult by giving them more CC. Everyone hated that, even though they had been complaining that the game was too easy before.
# 3
08-29-2009, 09:03 AM
The Garoon are terribly annoying. Most mobs start getting harder around lvl 25. When you do Teleios Tower and a quest called The Exhumed, you'll wish it was easier.
# 4
08-29-2009, 09:20 AM
Quote:
| Important: The point being the enemies are not tough enough, exotic enough to make fights prolonged to extend combat, to extend content. ie. Enemies need a buff. Powers are fine. |
For me, I'll say it again, the tutorial set the tone for levels 1-17 for me. Too easy. About worth doing as a challenge. But in beta, it was, at one point much harder and that made it much more fun. Not impossibly hard but not stupidly easy which it currently is.
Whatever these schticks are? Why aren't they in 1-17 and if they are...they need to be implemented more often...or the enemies fight a little harder. It feels like fighting CoX on 'heroic' difficulty with greens, blues and whites with the odd yellow and orange. It doesn't feel 'red' or 'purple' difficulty.
IF a game is too easy, it takes away the sense of reward. And when people get to L40 they'll scream in disappointment that there is 'no content' or that it was 'too easy'.
Ergo: I think the suggestions of Moment, above, clearly a fellow luminary, would be worth addressing very soon by Cryptic.
Azrael_9.
# 5
08-29-2009, 09:22 AM
Quote:
|
My Own perspective: That all said, is there currently a problem with the game being too easy, for too long? From personal perspective, I only ever became 'challenged' as a player, when I got to level 15 and did Fight Club with a friend so I was at least a level early. I felt rewarded because I had to corner pull and use my head. Similarly, with a Might character I fought Foxbat with a poorly built Hero and was beating him just using 1st and 2nd powers. I only charged up an attack, to speed it up. I did not feel threatened. Maybe I got lucky. Even so, I feel the dificulty curve is too lenient, for too long (1-15 essentially). The enemies do not seem to have enough 'tricks up their sleeves' to overcome the versatility of builds which players are using. Important: The point being the enemies are not tough enough, exotic enough to make fights prolonged to extend combat, to extend content. ie. Enemies need a buff. Powers are fine. |
The Foxbat one? A major disappointment. I think you've nailed the first 15 levels with that post.
Azrael_9
# 6
08-29-2009, 09:25 AM
It would be great if they added gimmicks to the enemies to make them more challenging. It would make the player have to think, rather than just mindlessly clicking buttons. However, I'm sure they'll just raise the damage or increase hit points to get the job done.
# 7
08-29-2009, 09:27 AM
Furthermore, as you note, it's not the powers that need nerfing but the A.I in the villains and the difficulty of them that needs upping with either more intensity, difficulty and their attacks more varied and intelligent. And too often they just stand there. I'd like to see them hit and run, play dastardly tricks.
Where was Foxbat's promised 'humiliation' of me? A disappointment for a villain with such a 'rep'. ;)
I thought he'd at least use ping-pong balls to make me fall over...?
You'd never get through Steel Canyon as quickly in your 'lower teens' in CoX...before some Council or Boss had fried your Ass a few times under a debt mountain. Certainly, not as a newbie. And the mobs could always be a handful even as whites and yellows.
Maybe the mob size needs upping. But the difficulty? It's off by 25% for me. Too. Easy.
Azrael_9
Where was Foxbat's promised 'humiliation' of me? A disappointment for a villain with such a 'rep'. ;)
I thought he'd at least use ping-pong balls to make me fall over...?
You'd never get through Steel Canyon as quickly in your 'lower teens' in CoX...before some Council or Boss had fried your Ass a few times under a debt mountain. Certainly, not as a newbie. And the mobs could always be a handful even as whites and yellows.
Maybe the mob size needs upping. But the difficulty? It's off by 25% for me. Too. Easy.
Azrael_9
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Greyform
It would be great if they added gimmicks to the enemies to make them more challenging. It would make the player have to think, rather than just mindlessly clicking buttons. However, I'm sure they'll just raise the damage or increase hit points to get the job done.
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At least in the interim, up the hitpoints, mob size or damage like you say.
Azrael_9
# 9
08-29-2009, 01:12 PM
it takes my might char a ****** long time compared to anything else i've made and played to 10 to kill any damned thing.
mob hp is fine. mobs die faster in wow/coh
mob hp is fine. mobs die faster in wow/coh
# 10
08-29-2009, 01:29 PM
It is very easy. In Open Beta, I was soloing everything 2-3 levels ahead with a straight forward might character and I did not know what I was doing. Not just regular mobs out on the street, but missions, supervillains, everything. I did not even have a very low level friendly build, it was just too easy, and I don't see it being any different so far. It did not become even the least bit difficult until I got to the Gadroon with their holds. I was level 22 and, in Canada, the Gadroon start at 25, and even then, since there is essentially no death penalty, I would just charge in again until things went my way. Granted, I died a lot at that point, but I was taking 2 henchmen and a villain 3-4 levels over mine. Too easy.
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