We are many...

No its only me. I just move very fast as is. My character is a speedster and time flies by me very quickly. My main is TRZ-Airmaster. I have a few alt characters. Cobolt, Excavator, Wasteland.

Same here don't know if I can keep playing Might anymore, it's damage is so bad. It seems like Dex and crits is the only way to go to make up for the massive loss of damage for melee. Ranged however seems to be the main way to go now.

This update is an epic facepalm.

snipped for brevity.

I agree. And yet the hate might crowd also want might to not be able to crit.

It seems to me that too few even understand the difference in the terms "tank" and "brick".

Brick is a might character. Tank is a function or mission that a character can be built for from appropriate powers, advantages, specialties, and roles for optimum achievement of that mission.

Might as now set with these changes will never be capable of might DPS. Worse, it will no longer be as effective as a power set for tanking. A level 40 DPS energy projector (electric, ice, force, ) with a tier 1 maintain now does much more damage than a level 40 might with a tier 3 attack.

What amazes me is the pure contempt and vitriol from the hate might crowd and that this patch seems to indicate the same contempt from the power developers. Not balance. Pure contempt.

The best full charge attack I can get from a well built defiance build using a full charge haymaker is about 2800 against a test dummy. This is in no way competitive.

I'm out until this mess is fixed.

AoED is going to make crit pet builds the most ridiculously overpowered damage output in the game once people start using it. Against large and relatively stationary targets, anyway.

TRZ-Airmaster: Level 40 Champion

Superstats:
Primary Superstat: Intelligence
Secondary Superstat: Presence
Secondary Superstat:Recovery

Powers:
Level 1: Wrist Bolter -- Rank 2
Level 1: Power Gauntlet -- Rank 2, Rank 3
Level 6: Energy Shield -- Laser Knight, Rank 2
Level 6: Acrobatics -- Rank 2
Level 8: Bionic Shielding
Level 11: Medical Nanites -- Rank 2
Level 14: Micro Munitions -- Rank 2
Level 17: Munitions Bots -- Rank 2, Rank 3
Level 20: Support Drones -- Rank 2, Rank 3
Level 23: Ritual Of Arcane Summoning -- Rank 2, Unbound Ritual
Level 26: Mini Gun
Level 29: Inertial Dampening Field -- Rank 2, Rank 3
Level 32: Palliate
Level 35: Resurrection Serum
Level 35: Blazing Speed -- Rank 2, Rank 3
Level 38: Implosion Engine

Talents:
Level 6: Brilliant
Level 9: Indomitable
Level 12: Intimidating
Level 15: Negotiator
Level 18: Amazing Stamina
Level 21: Tireless

What Role are you using?
You're using Intelligence, Commander and what was the other Spec Tree?

Do I have your build mostly right here?

Very similar to my build, except mine has pulse beam rifle and orbital cannon. My stats were Intelligence, Endurance and Recovery. I took Intelligence, Commander and Vindicator for spec trees.

Mine is also underperforming under the update. My build is a real mess now. Spec trees seem to work best when a build is specialized, but this kind of build is broad mixture of assorted things.

Taking Commander may have been a mistake since the pets are the weakest part of the build. My build has been sitting on the shelf until I decide how to fix it. I've been thinking of swapping Inertial Dampening Field with Concentration to give it more punch, and maybe shoehorn Ego or Dex into one of my superstats for added ranged damage or crits.

The only people I saw requesting a no-crit option for might were actual might players asking for higher base damage and the removal of crits so that they didnt have to stat for crits in order to get damage comparable to those who did.

How is giving might the same buffs as everyone else contempt for might ?

Haymaker R3
1,520 base damage on a full charge
608 Offense (assuming 40%, not difficult to achieve)
912 superstats (assuming 60%)
456 Str scaling (assuming 30%, easily achieved by someone pushing Str as a primary SS)
1,824 enrage (assuming 8 stacks at 15% each)
-------
5,320 Total (note no brawler stance or aggressor, just standard additive buffs available to every
character)


That is without crits, easily available through gear and spec tree.

Finally I would like to point out that you said, "a well built defiance build," not a well built DPS build. Obviously if you are hitting for less than half of what a character with just base-line, not min/maxed, numbers your character is not built to do damage. If you are building for defence its pretty weird to complain about not being competitive at offense compared to those who build for that.

I mean, I can put together a build that is pretty awesome at team healing that would do bad melee damage too.

So lets revisit the numbers from above with an actual melee damage concept in mind:

Haymaker R3
1,520 base damage on a full charge
1,140 offensive passive (assuming 75%)
608 Offense (assuming 40%, not difficult to achieve)
912 superstats (assuming 60%)
456 Str scaling (assuming 30%, easily achieved by someone pushing Str as a primary SS)
1,824 enrage (assuming 8 stacks at 15% each)
-------
6,460 Additive Total
1,615 25% Brawler bonus
3,230 critical hit average (assuming 50% chance and 100% severity)
-------
11,305 total

plus fall damage if they survive the 11k+ hit.

I just went back to read all posts by those involved in the remove crit for might side from all the posts I could find. You are right. Most are from the pro-might side but most disgree with Segi's suggestion. There are a few from the other side that agree with it.

Those are some very impressive numbers. I've never even seen close to 608 offense. That is from gear? I am static at 90 with gear and all. With all purple UNITY gear that I just acquired, I have 333 str, 240 ish con, and 176 int with level 4-6 mods.

Im not talking about an unstoppable build because it is a mistake to balance everything around what offensive builds do. Sometimes I tank, sometimes I don't. Defiance defensive might builds are what the standard should be. Offensive unstoppable builds are the point at which a tradeoff is made beteween the standard survivability character becoming something much less survivble but more damaging. If the issue is balance, then this is the point where balance comes into play. Balance the offensive builds if they are doing too much damage.

Until this retcon I was running a build very similar to Pulsewave's Genome. I was doing respectable damage prior to these change with defiance. Soloing on elite was fun. In team I was doing just fine and the big hit DPS ranged guys had no complaints. I am now doing less damage than what is reasonable which makes eveything take longer. I have never done damage even close to 11K with any might build with the exception of Unleashed Rage. I was doing crits in the 5K range with Demolish. I am now not even close to that and with the current amounts of gear numbers that can be achieved, I don't see how to get the stats you most above without min/maxing. (I've always been against min/maxing, I believe in balanced attributes). Sure, if I put two str mods on a piece of gear, 2 con and 2 intell I could achieve those numbers, but would sacrifice energy or other numbers that help create a well rounded character capable of making sustained attacks. I can no longer maintain giant growth (enrage only).

So maybe my points are unimportant. I don't know. What I do know is I am not happy with the results so far.

That offense reference is the damage gained from having sufficient offense to get a 40% damage buff. I used that number because I had just participated in a conversation with a friend who mentioned that he was getting that much from his offense on a non min/maxed character.

I didnt agree with the boosted base damage in return for no crit chance for might because it was too specifically restricted to one set. If there is going to be an option to get bonus damage for giving up the ability to crit then it would only be fair for it to be an option for any build.

The numbers I posted were purely based on reasonably common buffs and pretty readily achievable levels of statting. Of course they do not take target defenses into consideration.

Are you not using spec trees and gear to boost your damage and energy management ? Keep in mind that testing against PH target dummies has the disadvantage of not giving you energy gain from Defiance during the process. Its one of the reasons I stopped using the dummies when testing the DPS of my Force Sheathe using characters.


As to the numbers I provided being min/maxed... I suppose its a matter of perception.

I dont consider the stat requirment to get 60% damage buff out of your SS to be min maxing. SInce this is the target number, essentially the assumed baseline, for characters (per the devs) I would consider anyone not reaching that number to be sub-par (by the definition of the term).

75% from a melee offensive passive is also not min/maxing IMO.

30% from strength scaling is (as I recall) somewhere in the 250 range ? Not sure on this, but it was well within the achievable range without having to min/max.

I used 15% per stack for enrage based on a poster in another thread who was complaining about how LOW that was. It seemed safe to use a number that someone who is upset about the Enrage nerf considers low. If it is seen as too low, it is not min/maxed.

The Brawler number is set. Not a function of min/max


The Crit numbers I gave in the Offensive passive/brawler numbers is pretty min/maxed. This was intentional. The point there being that if you really want to go for damage its possible to see numbers like that. even so, those numbers only have one aspect min/maxed. The rest of the numbers are based on readily achievable stats, without min/maxing.



Getting energy gain from both Defiance and Enrage, while perhaps even using the Str spec melee energy cost reduction talent, and INT as a secondary SS (probably STR as primary and Con as the other secondary), with perhaps MSA tossed in (fueled by your lunge if nothing else) should mean no real energy problems...in a real combat situation. Again, hitting dummies means not getting full benefit out of your energy management set up.

You dont need well rounded beyond those stats. Offense, defense, and energy management are alll very well tied together with just three powers and those three stats. Im not even sure that you would really need MSA, but a secondary energy unlock has become an assumed part of a character build as the devs have proliferated them throughout the various power sets during the set review process. Dont be surprised if Brick gets one of its own when the review process cycles back around (the devs have stated that the reviews are ongoing and will eventually hit sets that have already had a pass)

Having just converted a very underperforming sniper/shuriken build to a crit pet build with AOED...

..unless I'm sticking to concept too much by using Muni Bots and Support Drones as my pets, I would say it's not overpowered, but it's good.

I actually converted my darkness crit pet AOED build over to AOAC instead, just for giggles. It works well enough.