Lets have a discussion

I believe the Buffing/debuffing and defense stacking can infact be solved by fixing the roles, instead of systematically screwing with each power. How powers interact with each role should be made more dynamic and important.

DCUO gave me a great look at how this can be done Albeit i dont think thier system would work here, but something along those lines could work. Roles are suppose to restrict things, but they really dont in CO(other then passive really).

Think on it a little how much more balanced it would be if only protector role could use defensive passives. were immune to Control (except CC and Nttg), couldnt use control (knocks instead deal bonus damage), and could only use half 1/4 of the damage buffs the currently can(only 2 stacks of focus or enrage)? Protector should also limit secondary means of mitigation to a 1/4 of how powerful they currently are(meaning that IDF and dodge stacking(outside of LR) would be cut by 75%.)

Or what if they removed the damage penetration from DW and made that an innate feature on the DPS roles? (avenger and brawler).

Brawler roles single target attacks root targets, why doesnt avengers single target attacks snare or something to keep enemies where you want them?


Etc.....i believe that the combos and stacking in CO is the problem, but with a freeform system you can never really eradicate overpowered combos. But what you can do is force those combos to be either impossible or much less effective if used out of role.

How do you fix DW+FG+Lunge. (possibly)
-no lunges in avenger role, no melee control
-no ranged control in brawler
-no control in protector role
-possible in guardian, but you wouldnt have defense penetration in this role
-in sentinal control would be better, but damage would be as low as protector(my idea of protector) and you would have no defense penetration.

moves like force geyser are still a problem which is why every role except sentinel would have double cooldown times on control powers and control powers would cost 1.5x the energy.

i mean its not solid or conclusive but id rather PvP in a system like that then what we have now.

Any thoughts? what do you think COs direction should be in balancing the game? Because i feel that trying to nerf individual powers will make this game end up like league of legends.

I think limiting the roles that severely impacts freeforms more than ATs, and would force us into specific roles to accomplish what we want. Part of the fun of paying for Gold is that I can make a freeform who can tank, but still hold something if he needs to. I can make a high damage guy who can still off-tank a bit, or a controller/damage dealer, or a healer who also fights in melee range when soloing.

More choices are always better than less, so I have to tell you that I am against your idea.

This sounds interesting.

/signed

I agree with you and understand your argument, im a Gold LTS myself.

See this wouldn't force you into any sort of role it would just fix up the completely broken elements of the freeform issues. Id actually prefer this way to nerfing every power into the ground.

IE the imbue fiasco making cryptice think the "solution" was to remove crits from powers like Ebon Rift is the example of what i dont want to happen anymore.

Now my suggestion in no way kills the ability to create the characters that you suggested.

Want to off tank? make a tank/slash DPS , you'll do less damage then before sure and yeah i nerfed defense stacking and buff stacking but those things are problems. A protector shouldnt have the same number/quality of offense buffs as a DPS toons. Tanks choose to sacrifice DPS for defense and they should have honor it. They dont need to be able to deal phenomenal DPS and have massive damage. Add in that i allowed protectors immunity to control but no control of thier own its means that you cant perma lock your opponent but they cant stop your onslaught. IMO a tanks DPS shouldnt surpass base lvl offensive passive buffs, meaning at most 50% damage increase MAX for protector.

Nothing restricts a controller/healer/DPS in my suggestion..just roles that arent sentinel have increased costs and recharge for control powers(as per CO descriptions sentinel IS the control/heal role and every other role should be noticeably gimped in this field).

Feel free to make a melee healer but youd have to chose between better healing and control or better melee ability(as you do now).

More choices are better, but in the environment of a game the objective is to balance fun with challenge, competition with fairness, restriction with freedom.

If you pick powers you arent spec'd for they shouldnt work well...

Healthy Bump because i think the community needs to get behind this idea.

Personally, I have to agree with IronJelly and i'm a silver. Lets look at it like this, considering Brawler role got improved when the Master and Fist came out, it is most likely the other roles will eventually get their own unique improvements. Plus, what you are suggesting limits their practical use for golds greatly. Besides, isn't customization and being what kind of hero you want to be the main goal here? Not to be forced into a certain role, if that was the case, golds would be rolling ats more often.

Edit: I would like to make a quick note that even if what you suggest were to ever be put in, from what I can tell about the people on Champions, if there is a will, there is a way to make even balanced things broken. ;)

Brawlers buff wasnt anything really. Just buffing isnt the answer.

The problem here you and ironjelly have simply skimming what i said. The changes i have in Mind will absolutely not force you to do anything. It will "force" you to use a certain role as much as picking a melee power "forces" you to use brawler. Some players would agree that it doesn't.

The roles are there to maximize a certain aspect of your character at the expense of another, they do this but not enough and not correctly in my opinion.

Be more specific in your responses what does "their" refer to?

-Nothing i suggest is reducing anythings "practical" use.

-Nothing i suggest would "force" you into a certain role.

-Nothing i suggest limits customization at all.

The effect is the opposite Golds are beginning to role more ATs because freeform is horribly broken. And many of the Problems can be killed at the source by fixing roles.

For alot of people my changes wouldnt even change anything, the only people who would be harmed in any way are the people abusing the freeform system.

Freedom, must be balanced with restriction.

This pretty much says it all.

Changes made to PVE for the sake of PVP. No thanks.

Brawler

Can use only Offensive Passives
Melee Damage increased by 20%
Ranged Damage reduced by 20%
Healing powers and effects reduced by 20%
Melee attacks have 10% defense penetration
Control effects on ranged powers do not activate
Snare on melee attacks
Energy decays faster than normal rate
No energy generated from blocking
Small Energy cost discount to melee powers
Greater energy generation from energy builder attacks.
50% less threat generation
offensive buffs have no reduced effectiveness.
50% increased cooldown on control powers
Defensive buffs are 75% less effective
15% increased energy generation from energy unlocks (includes forms, and other energy return mechanics)

Avenger

Can use only Offensive Passives
Ranged Damage increased by 20%
Melee damage decreased by 20%
ranged attacks have 10% damage penetration
Healing Powers and effects reduced by 20%
Control abilities on melee powers dont activate
Energy decays at 50% normal rate
No energy generation from blocking
50% less threat generation
Small energy discount to ranged powers
Snare on ranged attacks
About 25% greater energy generation from energy builder attacks.
Offensive buffs have no reduced effectiveness
50% increased cooldown on control powers
Defensive buffs are 75% less effective
15% increased energy generation from energy unlocks (includes forms, and other energy return mechanics)

Guardian

Cannot use defensive passives
Standard Damage
Standard Hit Points
Standard Healing Powers
Standard Hold and Root Powers
Energy decays at normal rate
Standard Energy generated when Blocking
Standard Threat generation
Offensive buffs are 50% less effective
25% increased cooldown on control powers
defensive buffs are 50% less effective
25% increased energy generation from energy unlock powers(includes forms, and other energy return mechanics)

Sentinel

Can only use Support Passives
20% increase to support passives
Healing Powers increased by 20%
Control Powers increased by 20%
Resistance to Hold and Root Powers increased by 50%.
Energy decays at 50% normal rate
Much greater Energy regeneration to your Equilibrium
Energy cost discount to some healing, control, support, and buff powers
25% greater energy generation when blocking
75% less threat generation
25% reduce cooldowns on control powers
Damage reduced by 20%
Offensive buffs are 75% less effective(no counting slotted passive)
Defensive Buffs 25% less effective
Increased equilibrium
25% less Defense

Protector

Can only use Defensive Passives
Damage Reduced by 30%
Base Hit Points increased by 25%
Healing Reduce by 25%
No control effects can activate in the role
Immunity to Control effects
Energy decays at twice normal rate
When blocking additional energy is generated based on constitution.
Presence increases Threat generation
50% increased Threat
Maximum energy equilibrium is increase 20 Points
Offensive buffs are 75% less effective
Defense Buffs suffers suffer decreased effectiveness scaling on number of defense buffs present. reduction is calculated based on priority tier.
Passive absorption is tier 1, Active absorption is tier 2, % mitigation is tier 3, Dodge is tier 4.

Tier 1: 0% reduction in effectiveness.
Tier 2: 50% reduction in effectiveness.
Tier 3: 75% reduction in effectiveness.
Tier 4: 100% reduction in effectiveness.

No one talking about PvE or PvP, stop with the petty separation of the game into categories with the mindset that content being broken is ok as long as it doesnt affect "X" part of the game.

This isnt about PvP or PvE, this isnt about Gold or silver, this isnt about powers being op or builds being cheap. This is about a system that cryptic implemented that is unbalanced and broken, and doesnt even achieve its implied goal.