I agree with the different types of mission that are mad available to you should fit the flavor. Obviously if this ever happens---cross my fingers, close my eyes, clap my hands and think of neverland-- it'd be nice to have the option of having the option to turn a Champions character into a Dark Champions.

But given the fact that The Animated Series flavor would mesh better with CO: Doesn't it kind of make PvP missions like that a little unnecessary/nonsensical? I like the idea...but for the sake of conversation lets say we have, for example, Dare Devil and the Punisher. They're both "dark champions" and work the mean streets of NYC, but Ol' Horn Head is always busting the Punisher's chops and vice versa.

I'm not talking about being able to turn Champions into Dark Champions or vice versa; I'm talking about Dark Champions having Missions available to them that opt them into PvP in a storyline format. And I wouldn't want it to be "Dark Champions opposed by Champions"; I'd want it to be "Dark Champions opposed by anyone".

Some missions that are morally ambiguous would be fun. Like taking down generally corrupt cops in an already understaffed police force, for example. Or beating up old ladies on suspicion of them being VIPER agents in disguise (once bitten, twice shy)...

As for PvP missions... It honestly sounds like a lot of work for something that could be roleplayed without adding extra code to incorporate PvP into certain missions. A darker environment is fine but I see no need to copy what has already been done and have villains. Optional darker setting, sure, and any would-be villains can RP their villainy, especially with the upcoming team duelling... I just don't see villainy and all it entails to be that much of a grabber for new players, as it would slow down everything else and split the community into two factions I guess...

And to the guy who said Champions only means good... No. A champion is a winner, the best of the combatants. Technically it classes to the worst of our enemies as well as applying to heroes.
Just a tangential thought I figured I'd share.

Ah, but I'm not saying "would-be villainy" or RPing villains. A Dark Champion is an Anti-Hero, not a Villain: he breaks laws and does morally questionable things in pursuit of achieving truly good outcomes – thus the reason I've referred to it as an "ends justifying the means" approach. Heroes and Anti-Heroes generally don't get along; but ultimately, they're on the same side.

In terms of PvP Missions, their main benefit would be in providing PvP content that's part of a story arc, and which can provide Experience. Right now, the only PvP content in the game is a bunch of isolated duels, with no sense of progression beyond how much Acclaim you've generated: no mission chains, and no character building. If you want to level up your character, you must engage in PvE Missions to do so. The upcoming team duelling stuff doesn't change this at all.

If done the way I'm envisioning it, the division wouldn't split the community into two factions; it would play to the existing split that exists between the PvP community and the PvE community. The Champions "faction" would be for those of us who generally prefer PvE content, with a little sports-like PvP competition on the side; the Dark Champions "faction" would be for those of us who prefer the PvP content, with a bit of PvE material in there to cover the fact that Dark Champions have more to deal with than just each other.

Ah, makes sense.

Unless Cryptic brokers a deal with Hero Games, Hudson City isn't going to happen. HC is a part of Dark Champions, which is still owned by HG.

Also, with how much Cryptic ruined the canon, I'm not sure I want Dark Champions being ruined too. Cryptic's inept, ignorant writers went and wrote for Champions canon the equivilent of handing the Hanna Barbera of the 1960s full license to do whatever they want with Spiderman. It's simply not pretty. They took a canon about as serious as Batman the Animated Series and turned it into Adam West Batcamp.

Turn that frown upside down gloomy Gus :)

I believe Cryptic does own the rights, I remember hearing from someone that the only thing that they don't own is Harbinger of Justice, he still belongs to HERO/Steve Long. I'm not 100% on that though.

Some of the missions are pretty good, while not terribly enthused by Vibora Bay itself, the Therakiel line is pretty awesome. Really, the solution is communication. If Cryptic and Steve Long had been in better contact, IMHO, the whole "Vanguard is an Archer" debacle would not have happened, and similar things could be averted: Quality, general theme, tone etc etc.

Dark Champions (but not the Harbinger of Justice) was part of the deal when Cryptic purchased Champions.

http://www.herogames.com/aboutChampions.htm

Q: What's the relationship between the Champions Online MMO and the Champions roleplaying game?
A: In late 2007 Cryptic Studios was looking for a comic book-style setting for its next massive multiplayer online roleplaying game. Several of Cryptic's designers and administrators are long-time Champions fans, so naturally they thought of using the Champions Universe. They opened up negotiations with us, and the end result of those negotiations was that Cryptic bought the Champions and Dark Champions intellectual property from us. They didn't buy the HERO System rules, just the Champions and Dark Champions IP (the characters, places, events, and so on). Under the terms of our agreement they license back to DOJ the right to produce roleplaying game books for Champions and Dark Champions.


Quoted from the link, emphasis mine.



Please note that I am not commenting on this representation of how the IP has been handled, but thought the point about ownership of the IP should be settled so that the discussion could proceed.

I actually really think it would be a nice alternative to villains. And I as well understand that any change as big as this will take time to implement, but I think this would be nice. However I do think it's a little low on the priority list right now. We really need to start thinking about new end game content. Once you hit 40 on Champions what do you do? The same missions over and over, we need something to fix that. Until that's changed we'll probably not see something like this. Something that is great, but not what we need.

Of course, yes, and there are many forums that have discussed the "end-game issue" ad nausem and beyond. The Devs in that infamous UNTIL report have even said they're "looking at Star*Guards"

Someone claimed that Tumerboy said "No, not what champions are about." and I've been posting, speaking for myself, because of that. To just get people aware of the fantastic lore in Hudson city and the oodles of opportunities for great content and as an act of civil defiance to the nay-sayers.

We're going to be getting that new "semi-gritty" zone this year(Imma make a prediction and say its North Detroit and that Nighthawk finally makes an appearance. Hopefully not a repeat of the "vanguard is an archer" debacle) , and then maybe, maybe the Star*Guard. That is if the world hasn't been blown to smithereens by then ;).

The moon/japan have great lore and therefore I support both!
In all honesty I support all HERO-lore-based things, done and implemented well , In Champions Online.

Not sure about the issue with rights in regards to Pulp Hero, however, this is another interesting tidbit of Hudson City lore.

The Raven and The Midnight Brigade!

The Raven: A black masked, well dressed, gun touting, two fisted hero from the '20s, and was very well active into the 70s,. Nearly dying in the Great War (that is World War I for those of us non-gin drinking types) James Dubois was visited by the Grim Spectre of death! Death however had not come for Dubois, for he had much good in his heart, and the Power That Be , via Death himself, granted Dubois with mystical abilities!
He could perceive things before they happened and over time learned the secrects of the Arts Martial and Alchemy! Knowing his war on the underworld both mundane and mystic would be difficult alone, he gathered companions, including the lovely velvet Phantom and eventually

The Midnight Brigade! Some not even knowing they serve the raven, the Midnight Brigade's inner most circle can be identified with a signet ring with the visage of a raven upon it! From martial artist to the far east, aviators and cab drivers the Midnight Brigade aided the Raven in his war on the Criminal and Mystical Underworld!

The Ravens tarot, which allowed him to perceive events well before it happened, has yet to have been found...perhaps the legacy of the Raven lingers still in the Pearl City?

Any who, move along.