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Asil is my first level 40 Champion, much time and effort was put into my research in game mechanics as I developed this build while leveling. My foundation was Pulswave's amazing Trailblazer Champion found here:
http://forums.champions-online.com/s...d.php?t=126088
The twist on my concept was to be a more effective tank while remaining very mobile and versatile. I wanted to incorporate a wide range of attacks to grab aggro in a variety of situations, while also adding synergy and to the overall defensive nature of the build. The build could easily be modified for PVP, but as a tank, damage is moderate at best and may best be left to PVE.
This is a level 40 retcon but talents could be juggled and used while leveling. My leveling build changed several times as I had drastic concept shifts on several occasions while reaching 40 (my pocket book would appreciate it if I looked into using the Test Server). But I did level 1-40 on Elite and have no issue clearing a 5 man/Hard Training Room; not that I am veteran enough yet to know if either of these are accomplishments, it did make the game much more challenging and thus fun.
I apologize for any self-glossing this may come across as, but these forums helped me learn the mechanics of CO and I hope to share what I have learned with the community. Hope you enjoy the, any comments and suggestions are welcome.
Asil the Thief: Level 40 Champion
Superstats:
Level 5: Super Dexterity
Level 13: Super Constitution
Powers (numbers are Advantage Pts and talents are in preference order that I may want to change with a retcon):
Max Level Powers:
Level 1: Bludgeon (Power) --
Level 1: Cleave -5- Defensive Stance, Rank 2, Challenging Strikes
Level 5: Decimate --
Level 5: Acrobatics -2- Versatility
Level 8: Molecular Self-Assembly --
Level 11: Lightning Reflexes -4- Rank 2, Rank 3
Level 14: Form Of The Unfettered Master -3- Storm's Eye Prana
Level 17: Bountiful Chi Resurgence -4- Resurgent Reiki, Rank 2
Level 20: Dragon Kick -2- Lashing Dragon Tail
Level 23: Lock And Load -4- Two Smoking Barrels, Rank 2
Level 26: Ebon Void -1- Voracious Darkness
Level 29: Inertial Dampening Field --
Level 32: Lead Tempest -3- Tread Softly, Challenging Strikes
Level 35: Evasive Maneuvers -2- Rank 2
Level 35: Swinging -1- Rank 2
Level 38: Shuriken Throw -5- Chained Kunai, Crippling Challenge
Talents:
Level 1: Quick Trigger
Level 6: Physical Conditioning
Level 9: Martial Focus
Level 12: Professional Athlete
Level 15: Acrobat
Level 18: Shooter
Level 21: Martial Training
Your focus stats are Dexterity and Constitution. Take STR to around 70 points, and take Ego as high as you can get it.
Primary Attacks-
Bludgeon and Cleave: One sweeping vertical swing and a budget minded, CS carrying, horizontal cleave help make AOE tanking a breeze when spammed. Defensive Stance advantage on Cleave allows this swing to apply a stack of both Defiance and Enrage within three activations, which adds some padding to both the builds offense and defense.
Shuriken Throw: Going with this ability was a tough decision as I very much wanted to use Crashing Wave kick + adv for the stacking dodge bonus. But as a spammable CC I fealt Shurkan Throw just made the build more fun and has advantages of its own. Of course it does add a move which does not gain any melee damage bonus from Focus, but then again, a tanks CC strike isn't really about damage. What makes Shurkien Throw special with this build is that with the Chained Kunai advantage (which adds a 1 second recharge), this attack procs MSA repeatedly which more than pays for its own energy cost. The knock-to effect is also very useful and fun while jumping/kiting with Acorbatics. Besides this, while Chained Kunai is on cooldown, the shrurikan throw itself can be spammed as a CC strike at range.
Decimate: <insert melee lunge here>
Though this does provide a method to apply Disorient, though not necessary, for Cleaves Enrage/Defiant buff. This can also be used for Nailed to the Ground or the Root passive if I want to PVP.
Dragon Kick: Massive Avoidance buff and Energy Return on full charge. The only heavy hitting move of the build, compliments the cleave style of the builds attacks as well.
Lead Tempest: This attack could easily be replaced in the build, but I feel it adds versatility and style; though sadly another attack that does not take advantage of the Focus buff. Lead Tempest's 50ft x 360 AOE which carries CS as well is just to great a tool to pass up for me. Besides that, it makes a great "bunkering" move with the Tread Softly and this build; also synergizing with the enrage build into the build for an added bonus.
The Defense:
Lightning Reflexes + Form Of The Unfettered Master + Storm's Eye Prana + Bountiful Chi Resurgence + Resurgent Reiki- Self explanatory and well documented elsewhere. All in all, a very talent intensive setup but worth the investment.
Ebon Void: This block provides the only O'**** button the build needs. I find it very difficult thus far to die with this setup and maintaining this block + adv. It may have been foolish of me to drop Masterful Dodge for Evasive Maneuvers, but I felt this block provided the Hero every chance to defend and regenerate health that Masterful Dodge did.
Evasive Maneuvers: Large dodge buff which does not suffer from diminishing returns and can be maintained 12/15 seconds; procs MSA; adds mobility and the distance needed for your lunge to proc Disorient. Also fun to lunge backwards and then use Chained Kunai to yank your opponent with you. Overall though this remains the most replaceable move and I have also considered: Circle of Primal Dominion, Masterful Dodge, Resurgence and even Entangling Mesh for "flare" or pvp.
Inertial Dampening Field: With this ability, stuff just doesn't hurt like it used to...just another defensive layer in the build
Energy Return-
Molecular Self-Assembly: After playing with 3 varies Energy Unlocks for this build, I felt MSA was the most consistent and kept the rotations flowing with little setup.
Lock And Load: Not necessarily an energy return nor an offensive boost for the build, but it makes the build extremely efficient in use. This buff is often off CD as you do use melee attacks, this provides an excellent hold break with the builds lack of Active Defense. L&L does add some nice AOE "pop" to Lead Tempest as icing on the cake.
Travel Powers:
Acrobatics- With the Versatility advantage this tank can be very mobile, lunging, flipping and reacting to the battlefield with ease.
Swinging- What Thief wouldn't want an escape route with this much style? Forge the advantage, Acrobatics is much more beneficial for combat movement and diminishing returns make the dodge/avoidance bonus minimal at 40.
http://forums.champions-online.com/s...d.php?t=126088
The twist on my concept was to be a more effective tank while remaining very mobile and versatile. I wanted to incorporate a wide range of attacks to grab aggro in a variety of situations, while also adding synergy and to the overall defensive nature of the build. The build could easily be modified for PVP, but as a tank, damage is moderate at best and may best be left to PVE.
This is a level 40 retcon but talents could be juggled and used while leveling. My leveling build changed several times as I had drastic concept shifts on several occasions while reaching 40 (my pocket book would appreciate it if I looked into using the Test Server). But I did level 1-40 on Elite and have no issue clearing a 5 man/Hard Training Room; not that I am veteran enough yet to know if either of these are accomplishments, it did make the game much more challenging and thus fun.
I apologize for any self-glossing this may come across as, but these forums helped me learn the mechanics of CO and I hope to share what I have learned with the community. Hope you enjoy the, any comments and suggestions are welcome.
Asil the Thief: Level 40 Champion
Superstats:
Level 5: Super Dexterity
Level 13: Super Constitution
Powers (numbers are Advantage Pts and talents are in preference order that I may want to change with a retcon):
Max Level Powers:
Level 1: Bludgeon (Power) --
Level 1: Cleave -5- Defensive Stance, Rank 2, Challenging Strikes
Level 5: Decimate --
Level 5: Acrobatics -2- Versatility
Level 8: Molecular Self-Assembly --
Level 11: Lightning Reflexes -4- Rank 2, Rank 3
Level 14: Form Of The Unfettered Master -3- Storm's Eye Prana
Level 17: Bountiful Chi Resurgence -4- Resurgent Reiki, Rank 2
Level 20: Dragon Kick -2- Lashing Dragon Tail
Level 23: Lock And Load -4- Two Smoking Barrels, Rank 2
Level 26: Ebon Void -1- Voracious Darkness
Level 29: Inertial Dampening Field --
Level 32: Lead Tempest -3- Tread Softly, Challenging Strikes
Level 35: Evasive Maneuvers -2- Rank 2
Level 35: Swinging -1- Rank 2
Level 38: Shuriken Throw -5- Chained Kunai, Crippling Challenge
Talents:
Level 1: Quick Trigger
Level 6: Physical Conditioning
Level 9: Martial Focus
Level 12: Professional Athlete
Level 15: Acrobat
Level 18: Shooter
Level 21: Martial Training
Your focus stats are Dexterity and Constitution. Take STR to around 70 points, and take Ego as high as you can get it.
Primary Attacks-
Bludgeon and Cleave: One sweeping vertical swing and a budget minded, CS carrying, horizontal cleave help make AOE tanking a breeze when spammed. Defensive Stance advantage on Cleave allows this swing to apply a stack of both Defiance and Enrage within three activations, which adds some padding to both the builds offense and defense.
Shuriken Throw: Going with this ability was a tough decision as I very much wanted to use Crashing Wave kick + adv for the stacking dodge bonus. But as a spammable CC I fealt Shurkan Throw just made the build more fun and has advantages of its own. Of course it does add a move which does not gain any melee damage bonus from Focus, but then again, a tanks CC strike isn't really about damage. What makes Shurkien Throw special with this build is that with the Chained Kunai advantage (which adds a 1 second recharge), this attack procs MSA repeatedly which more than pays for its own energy cost. The knock-to effect is also very useful and fun while jumping/kiting with Acorbatics. Besides this, while Chained Kunai is on cooldown, the shrurikan throw itself can be spammed as a CC strike at range.
Decimate: <insert melee lunge here>
Though this does provide a method to apply Disorient, though not necessary, for Cleaves Enrage/Defiant buff. This can also be used for Nailed to the Ground or the Root passive if I want to PVP.
Dragon Kick: Massive Avoidance buff and Energy Return on full charge. The only heavy hitting move of the build, compliments the cleave style of the builds attacks as well.
Lead Tempest: This attack could easily be replaced in the build, but I feel it adds versatility and style; though sadly another attack that does not take advantage of the Focus buff. Lead Tempest's 50ft x 360 AOE which carries CS as well is just to great a tool to pass up for me. Besides that, it makes a great "bunkering" move with the Tread Softly and this build; also synergizing with the enrage build into the build for an added bonus.
The Defense:
Lightning Reflexes + Form Of The Unfettered Master + Storm's Eye Prana + Bountiful Chi Resurgence + Resurgent Reiki- Self explanatory and well documented elsewhere. All in all, a very talent intensive setup but worth the investment.
Ebon Void: This block provides the only O'**** button the build needs. I find it very difficult thus far to die with this setup and maintaining this block + adv. It may have been foolish of me to drop Masterful Dodge for Evasive Maneuvers, but I felt this block provided the Hero every chance to defend and regenerate health that Masterful Dodge did.
Evasive Maneuvers: Large dodge buff which does not suffer from diminishing returns and can be maintained 12/15 seconds; procs MSA; adds mobility and the distance needed for your lunge to proc Disorient. Also fun to lunge backwards and then use Chained Kunai to yank your opponent with you. Overall though this remains the most replaceable move and I have also considered: Circle of Primal Dominion, Masterful Dodge, Resurgence and even Entangling Mesh for "flare" or pvp.
Inertial Dampening Field: With this ability, stuff just doesn't hurt like it used to...just another defensive layer in the build
Energy Return-
Molecular Self-Assembly: After playing with 3 varies Energy Unlocks for this build, I felt MSA was the most consistent and kept the rotations flowing with little setup.
Lock And Load: Not necessarily an energy return nor an offensive boost for the build, but it makes the build extremely efficient in use. This buff is often off CD as you do use melee attacks, this provides an excellent hold break with the builds lack of Active Defense. L&L does add some nice AOE "pop" to Lead Tempest as icing on the cake.
Travel Powers:
Acrobatics- With the Versatility advantage this tank can be very mobile, lunging, flipping and reacting to the battlefield with ease.
Swinging- What Thief wouldn't want an escape route with this much style? Forge the advantage, Acrobatics is much more beneficial for combat movement and diminishing returns make the dodge/avoidance bonus minimal at 40.
# 2
06-19-2011, 01:06 PM
Hmm...this is quite interesting. I'd been looking into a Lightning Reflexes retcon for Koro recently, may have to keep some of this in mind. One of the more intriguing takes on Dodgetank I've seen.
Heh, Cleave honestly strikes me as somewhat inspired. A lot of people trash-talk Defensive Stance, and it obviously doesn't make any sense for the Defiance builds people always use when they do said trash-talking, but I've always thought it was a pretty nifty trick for a build that didn't use Defiance. You have Super Constitution to fuel that one stack to maximum capacity, and Cleave gives you the Enrage ye need to make Lead Tempest hit capacity as well. And it even carries Challenging Strikes. I do love me my skills with a thousand uses.
I wasn't aware that Chained Kunai adds a one-second cooldown to the Shuriken. If so, that is ridiculous for working with MSA, and honestly makes me wonder why you aren't working on any Intelligence. The knock-to is entertaining - I still giggle any time I can pull off Monofilament Wire on Mina - and a good control method against things like MVs or Enforcers you're trying to keep off the squishies.
I've always thought Lead Tempest was the most ridiculous Challenging Strikes power in the game. If you can't AoE-tank with Lead Tempest, turn off your computer and never play video games again. I do love that power so. That said...pretty much the only beef I've got with your entire build is Accelerated Metabolism on Tempest. Frankly, if the research I did on that advantage back when I picked this game up still holds true...Accelerated Metabolism is about as valuable as the contents of a politician's septic tank. If not slightly less so. I'd trade that point out for a rank in one of your travel powers if it's not too big a hassle. I know a lot of people don't like ranking their travel powers, feel like it's a waste of advantage points, but it can't possibly be a bigger waste of advantage points than Accelerated Metabolism is.
I'd also think about trading the ranks from Lightning Reflexes to Evasive Maneuvers. If I recall the in-game numbers properly, you get a larger boost for the same number of points from Evasive than you do from ranks in LR, especially considering diminishing returns. I don't have any real experience dodgetanking though, so I can't say how acute that particular piece of advice is. Heh...another argument for slotting at least some Intelligence, though. The lower the recharge on Evasive, the more uptime you can wring from it in a long fight.
There's really not a lot to say - there's a couple other things I'd contemplate tweaking myself, but nothing that strikes me as an actual mistake outside of Accelerated Metabolism. I really like it; I wish more defensive passive players thought like this.
Heh, Cleave honestly strikes me as somewhat inspired. A lot of people trash-talk Defensive Stance, and it obviously doesn't make any sense for the Defiance builds people always use when they do said trash-talking, but I've always thought it was a pretty nifty trick for a build that didn't use Defiance. You have Super Constitution to fuel that one stack to maximum capacity, and Cleave gives you the Enrage ye need to make Lead Tempest hit capacity as well. And it even carries Challenging Strikes. I do love me my skills with a thousand uses.
I wasn't aware that Chained Kunai adds a one-second cooldown to the Shuriken. If so, that is ridiculous for working with MSA, and honestly makes me wonder why you aren't working on any Intelligence. The knock-to is entertaining - I still giggle any time I can pull off Monofilament Wire on Mina - and a good control method against things like MVs or Enforcers you're trying to keep off the squishies.
I've always thought Lead Tempest was the most ridiculous Challenging Strikes power in the game. If you can't AoE-tank with Lead Tempest, turn off your computer and never play video games again. I do love that power so. That said...pretty much the only beef I've got with your entire build is Accelerated Metabolism on Tempest. Frankly, if the research I did on that advantage back when I picked this game up still holds true...Accelerated Metabolism is about as valuable as the contents of a politician's septic tank. If not slightly less so. I'd trade that point out for a rank in one of your travel powers if it's not too big a hassle. I know a lot of people don't like ranking their travel powers, feel like it's a waste of advantage points, but it can't possibly be a bigger waste of advantage points than Accelerated Metabolism is.
I'd also think about trading the ranks from Lightning Reflexes to Evasive Maneuvers. If I recall the in-game numbers properly, you get a larger boost for the same number of points from Evasive than you do from ranks in LR, especially considering diminishing returns. I don't have any real experience dodgetanking though, so I can't say how acute that particular piece of advice is. Heh...another argument for slotting at least some Intelligence, though. The lower the recharge on Evasive, the more uptime you can wring from it in a long fight.
There's really not a lot to say - there's a couple other things I'd contemplate tweaking myself, but nothing that strikes me as an actual mistake outside of Accelerated Metabolism. I really like it; I wish more defensive passive players thought like this.
# 3
06-19-2011, 01:22 PM
Thank you, I will look to gear for some additional Int. I realized Accelerated Metabolism was nearly pointless, but as you mentioned the only other spot I have for that single Advantage Point would be a travel power. I guess I wouldn't mind swinging between places faster, but I have to imagine some scenario where the energy return may find a way to benefit a Lead Tempest maintain....one can hope anyhow.
# 4
06-19-2011, 01:46 PM
Accelerated Metabolism, last I read, has a 20% chance to proc on any given use/pulse of a power, providing between 9 and 15 energy when it does. Typically 11, but I've seen it offer different numbers. Once it has so proc'd, it initiates a 15-second cooldown during which period you cannot proc any form of Accelerated Metabolism. As such, you are gaining, at absolute theoretical most, one energy per second from that advantage point.
Such was what I read when I looked it up, anyways. it may have changed since, or what I read may not have been accurate. If it is, though...heh, yeah. Screw that advantage.
Such was what I read when I looked it up, anyways. it may have changed since, or what I read may not have been accurate. If it is, though...heh, yeah. Screw that advantage.
# 5
06-19-2011, 02:23 PM
I fully agree the AM is virtually useless...
However, if the OP is trying to squeeze every drop out of a build and he has one AP left, why not go with AM? It's not much, but one additional energy per sec is one you didn't have...
I'd prob go with a TP rank because I just like getting around quicker. But for maxing out potential from a build, I can see going with AM...
However, if the OP is trying to squeeze every drop out of a build and he has one AP left, why not go with AM? It's not much, but one additional energy per sec is one you didn't have...
I'd prob go with a TP rank because I just like getting around quicker. But for maxing out potential from a build, I can see going with AM...
# 6
06-19-2011, 04:44 PM
In general I think it's a solid build. The Enrage/Focus interaction is something I imagine you run into a lot.
TBH if I was going to make a highly mobile dodge tank I'd roll Archery. Storm of Arrows has the same functionality as Lead Tempest, except at range (though the area isn't as large), and all of Archery is 100' mobile attacks (except for Focus Shot).
TBH if I was going to make a highly mobile dodge tank I'd roll Archery. Storm of Arrows has the same functionality as Lead Tempest, except at range (though the area isn't as large), and all of Archery is 100' mobile attacks (except for Focus Shot).
# 7
06-19-2011, 05:32 PM
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Empyreal10
In general I think it's a solid build. The Enrage/Focus interaction is something I imagine you run into a lot.
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All in all, it seems like a fairly reliable source of both buffs in this build where they are mostly a bonus.
# 8
06-19-2011, 06:02 PM
Tried it on test and it's great. I was looking to retcon a HW, slight Munitions kind of build and I've been trying all sorts of things. This could work for it but the damage itself isn't where I want it to be since I play on Elite most of the time these days. It's still a great build though. Kind of different and fun for sure.
So when testing all this or playing, have you any suggestions regarding the slotted power for someone who wants some survivability against big groups but also wants to do damage with HW/Munitions? Right now I'm stuck with Defiance and Aggressor /STR CON, with all the Enrage etc but it's just not surviving how I want. My fire build (with Fiery Form) can tank 3 spawns (using just Mindful Reinforcement) and doing crazy damage with 3 Blood Gorger Avengers, yet my Defiance character can't.
Anyway sorry to go off topic. This build is inspiring. I'm just going through this long testing phase of what I can do to keep myself alive with the powers I want.
I might use this one and switch out a few things like the Archery attack for another character.
So when testing all this or playing, have you any suggestions regarding the slotted power for someone who wants some survivability against big groups but also wants to do damage with HW/Munitions? Right now I'm stuck with Defiance and Aggressor /STR CON, with all the Enrage etc but it's just not surviving how I want. My fire build (with Fiery Form) can tank 3 spawns (using just Mindful Reinforcement) and doing crazy damage with 3 Blood Gorger Avengers, yet my Defiance character can't.
Anyway sorry to go off topic. This build is inspiring. I'm just going through this long testing phase of what I can do to keep myself alive with the powers I want.
I might use this one and switch out a few things like the Archery attack for another character.
# 9
06-19-2011, 06:15 PM
I had the same problem as you with defiance. My defiance tanks were just not as durable as my invul tanks.
# 10
06-19-2011, 06:28 PM
Yeah, and then I put Invul on and it's not worth the time for me. So this build intrigued me, and I tested it and it does what it's supposed to do. Still not able to incorporate it into acceptable damage hw/munitions build I'm lookng to play, but it is a good build otherwise.
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