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Alright, I'm going to start this post with a question, then I'm going to make my proposal - it's ENTIRELY possible that the answer to the question is "Way too hard" and if that's the case <.< the rest of the post is unnecessary - so anyway... here we go.
Question:
Is it possible to create a set of 'standard' advantages that could cover most powers?
Examples: We already have Accelerated Metabolism, Crippling Challenge, Challenging Strikes and the like. So to give examples of what I'd like to see...
Shattered Armor (Offensive Powers, Single Target only) - This power has a 50% chance to reduce enemy resistance by 20% - 2 pts
Sympathetic Aura (Ally and self-targeted powers; buffs and heals) - There is a 20% chance that this power will not cost endurance - 2pts
----
Assuming it IS possible:
Could we get a fair few more of these kinds of advantages? I mean having one "unique" advantage per power is nice; but to really add to the RPG flavor, I think having several more generic advantages would be nice.
Additional examples -
Entropic Resonance - Power will do an additional 20% of it's damage as a DoT over the course of 10 seconds. Overwrites self. - 2pts
Expanded Power (Area Effect) - Power has a 20% larger radius.
Chaotic Power - Power has a 5% chance to Hold target, 5% chance to Root target, 5% chance to Knock up, 5% chance to Knock back, 5% chance to Knock to, 5% chance to Heal target, 5% chance to be AoE (all targets get a random effect), 5% chance to Ignite, 5% chance to Bleed, 5% chance to Charm, 5% chance to cause AoE Fire damage within 10ft of target, 5% chance of no-effect, 5% chance to Shrink target, 5% chance to Enrage target (with Growth effect), 5% chance to cause a confetti explosion, 5% chance to Confuse target. 5% chance to summon a random critter for 10 seconds*, 5% chance to heal self, 5% chance to cause self to Bleed, 5% chance to cause AoE Ice damage centered on self. Power gains 20 second cooldown if it has none or it's cooldown is naturally shorter. - 1pt
*Any henchman, villain, enforcer or mastervillain, or a random citizen who promptly runs away confused. In theory it'd be awesome to accidently summon Grond, and 10 seconds isn't long, but I'm not sure they want us to do stuff like that.
Domination - Power has 50% chance to Hold target - 3pts (This means that unique advantages like Redemption Denied are still flatly better, but if you wanted say... a Fireball hold, you could have it.)
Magnetic - Power draws target steadily toward the point of impact or the player, depending on type. (If it's an AoE, it goes toward the point of impact, if it's a single target, then toward the player). - 2pts
---
Etc... There's really a ton of possibilities for this kind of thing; an would make advantage choices more complex than "Do I want rank 3 or Rank 2 and the special advantage?" for most powers. Anyway it's just a thought.
Question:
Is it possible to create a set of 'standard' advantages that could cover most powers?
Examples: We already have Accelerated Metabolism, Crippling Challenge, Challenging Strikes and the like. So to give examples of what I'd like to see...
Shattered Armor (Offensive Powers, Single Target only) - This power has a 50% chance to reduce enemy resistance by 20% - 2 pts
Sympathetic Aura (Ally and self-targeted powers; buffs and heals) - There is a 20% chance that this power will not cost endurance - 2pts
----
Assuming it IS possible:
Could we get a fair few more of these kinds of advantages? I mean having one "unique" advantage per power is nice; but to really add to the RPG flavor, I think having several more generic advantages would be nice.
Additional examples -
Entropic Resonance - Power will do an additional 20% of it's damage as a DoT over the course of 10 seconds. Overwrites self. - 2pts
Expanded Power (Area Effect) - Power has a 20% larger radius.
Chaotic Power - Power has a 5% chance to Hold target, 5% chance to Root target, 5% chance to Knock up, 5% chance to Knock back, 5% chance to Knock to, 5% chance to Heal target, 5% chance to be AoE (all targets get a random effect), 5% chance to Ignite, 5% chance to Bleed, 5% chance to Charm, 5% chance to cause AoE Fire damage within 10ft of target, 5% chance of no-effect, 5% chance to Shrink target, 5% chance to Enrage target (with Growth effect), 5% chance to cause a confetti explosion, 5% chance to Confuse target. 5% chance to summon a random critter for 10 seconds*, 5% chance to heal self, 5% chance to cause self to Bleed, 5% chance to cause AoE Ice damage centered on self. Power gains 20 second cooldown if it has none or it's cooldown is naturally shorter. - 1pt
*Any henchman, villain, enforcer or mastervillain, or a random citizen who promptly runs away confused. In theory it'd be awesome to accidently summon Grond, and 10 seconds isn't long, but I'm not sure they want us to do stuff like that.
Domination - Power has 50% chance to Hold target - 3pts (This means that unique advantages like Redemption Denied are still flatly better, but if you wanted say... a Fireball hold, you could have it.)
Magnetic - Power draws target steadily toward the point of impact or the player, depending on type. (If it's an AoE, it goes toward the point of impact, if it's a single target, then toward the player). - 2pts
---
Etc... There's really a ton of possibilities for this kind of thing; an would make advantage choices more complex than "Do I want rank 3 or Rank 2 and the special advantage?" for most powers. Anyway it's just a thought.
# 2
05-13-2010, 12:24 PM
I kinda wish they had been able to stay closer to the Champions pen and paper system, where you COULD do a great many different things. In the pnp, "balance" was a matter of point-cost of powers ---- you get a fireball with a big AoE then it does less damage than a single-target melee flame touch power.
Of course, in Champions it was an overall point total so you could have a massively powerful attack and next to no other power of any strength (although a good GM would limit the total points you COULD spend on an attack or a defense, etc)....
Anyway, I loved how in Champions you could do this:
* Energy Blast (Ranged by default), add AoE Advantage, defined as fireball (special effect: lights things on fire)
or
* Energy Blast, No Range Limitation, increased damage, linked to a Hold power; defined as barbed chain that holds foes in place
The "core" powers were very broadly defined. In these cases, Energy Blast is simply damage-at-range. What kind of damage is entirely up to special effects and advantages and limitations you apply. (sidenote: Energy Blast with No Range Limitation means you cannot use your strength to increase the damage as you could with a hand to hand damage attack).
The problem with this is a problem that some people have noticed with the system we DO have ---- a lot of powers ~feel~ the same. People complain that the "only" difference between an ice blast and a fire blast is the animation and the special effects and the damage type and ancillary effect (like Chill or Clinging Flames)....
In Champions pen-and-paper terms, they probably WOULD be nearly identical with only the special effects and perhaps small advantage/limitation differences (if the chill/clinging flames effects were worth being considered more than 'just' special effects).
Aside from that danger --- of making people feel everything was "cookie cutter" ---- there's the matter of balancing things. The more options you have the harder it becomes to balance things.
In short (and since I have to get back to work, tee hee).... I doubt they'd go for a more generic broad advantage scheme at this point. =/
Of course, in Champions it was an overall point total so you could have a massively powerful attack and next to no other power of any strength (although a good GM would limit the total points you COULD spend on an attack or a defense, etc)....
Anyway, I loved how in Champions you could do this:
* Energy Blast (Ranged by default), add AoE Advantage, defined as fireball (special effect: lights things on fire)
or
* Energy Blast, No Range Limitation, increased damage, linked to a Hold power; defined as barbed chain that holds foes in place
The "core" powers were very broadly defined. In these cases, Energy Blast is simply damage-at-range. What kind of damage is entirely up to special effects and advantages and limitations you apply. (sidenote: Energy Blast with No Range Limitation means you cannot use your strength to increase the damage as you could with a hand to hand damage attack).
The problem with this is a problem that some people have noticed with the system we DO have ---- a lot of powers ~feel~ the same. People complain that the "only" difference between an ice blast and a fire blast is the animation and the special effects and the damage type and ancillary effect (like Chill or Clinging Flames)....
In Champions pen-and-paper terms, they probably WOULD be nearly identical with only the special effects and perhaps small advantage/limitation differences (if the chill/clinging flames effects were worth being considered more than 'just' special effects).
Aside from that danger --- of making people feel everything was "cookie cutter" ---- there's the matter of balancing things. The more options you have the harder it becomes to balance things.
In short (and since I have to get back to work, tee hee).... I doubt they'd go for a more generic broad advantage scheme at this point. =/
# 3
05-14-2010, 06:52 AM
I know it's not likely <;_;> But I feel it's worth asking.
I realize this might just be me but... right now I can choose all my advantages on a respec in under 5 minutes. Choosing initial POWERS takes a lot longer*, but the advantages are just ridiculously simple. This is one of the areas of the game where you could have some real depth without making it stupidly hardcore; and let us have more minute control over our powers.
I've never understood the "it's the same" argument. I mean, I know you're right - people would complain probably. (Then again people complain at the drop of a hat, so...)
But...For me, the animation is what MAKES the power. Everything else is just numbers, which I only care about in a very casual fashion (ie: "does it make mobs dead?/heal people/stun them? GOOD!") There are some sets I really wish we could get clones of powers from others with different animations.
One excellent example of this would be in Munitions:
Clone Gunslinger with an Assault Rifle animation, an SMG animation, a Gatling Gun animation and a Single Pistol animation. - Same stats, same advantages, but looking like you're firing one of the above weapons.
The reason? Immersion. For some characters it feels really awkward switching from pistol to rifle and then back to pistol just to mesh your guns with the mechanics of the game. Sure mechanically it's just Gunslinger; but it lets a given type of firearm wielding character the ability to stick with their weapon of choice at all times except when deliberately using something else (ie: grenades, minimines, a rocket launcher - things where a weapon swap makes total sense)
That's just the first off-the-top of my head example though, I'm sure with a little thought I could think of many, many more that would help fill out other sets too, even if statically they wouldn't be all that different.
*The main reason it takes me so long is matching animation, effect, and damage type with character concept. Almost none of my characters are mono-set based; excepting my Munitions character, and even there she has gadgeteering stuff out the wazoo >.> It's less about finding the most powerful power, and more about finding one that fits the niche I want while looking in-tune with the character.
I realize this might just be me but... right now I can choose all my advantages on a respec in under 5 minutes. Choosing initial POWERS takes a lot longer*, but the advantages are just ridiculously simple. This is one of the areas of the game where you could have some real depth without making it stupidly hardcore; and let us have more minute control over our powers.
I've never understood the "it's the same" argument. I mean, I know you're right - people would complain probably. (Then again people complain at the drop of a hat, so...)
But...For me, the animation is what MAKES the power. Everything else is just numbers, which I only care about in a very casual fashion (ie: "does it make mobs dead?/heal people/stun them? GOOD!") There are some sets I really wish we could get clones of powers from others with different animations.
One excellent example of this would be in Munitions:
Clone Gunslinger with an Assault Rifle animation, an SMG animation, a Gatling Gun animation and a Single Pistol animation. - Same stats, same advantages, but looking like you're firing one of the above weapons.
The reason? Immersion. For some characters it feels really awkward switching from pistol to rifle and then back to pistol just to mesh your guns with the mechanics of the game. Sure mechanically it's just Gunslinger; but it lets a given type of firearm wielding character the ability to stick with their weapon of choice at all times except when deliberately using something else (ie: grenades, minimines, a rocket launcher - things where a weapon swap makes total sense)
That's just the first off-the-top of my head example though, I'm sure with a little thought I could think of many, many more that would help fill out other sets too, even if statically they wouldn't be all that different.
*The main reason it takes me so long is matching animation, effect, and damage type with character concept. Almost none of my characters are mono-set based; excepting my Munitions character, and even there she has gadgeteering stuff out the wazoo >.> It's less about finding the most powerful power, and more about finding one that fits the niche I want while looking in-tune with the character.
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