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# 751
06-15-2012, 02:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Sprawler
A little question from me concerning the Outer Space Treaty's involvement in the Champions Universe.

No doubt this comes into play when you consider the amount of space stuff going on in Champions, what with Revenger having weaponized the moon, Destroyer exploring space without the intent on benefitting mankind, aliens of all sorts and UNTIL having a giant satellite and moonbase. But are there EXCEPTIONS to these international laws?

Can a hero get REGISTERED to have any form of weaponized moonbases? Do satellite lasers count as "conventional weapons"? Does UNTIL have special permissions to use weapons in space and on the moon?
That is a really good question. I have never seen the Outer Space Treaty mentioned in the Champions line, with added focus for Champions Beyond which deals with space-related phenomenon, which would lead me to believe that this an angle of a set campaign best suited for the GM to decide and elaborate upon.

I'd believe that UNTIL has been authorized by the UN to freely act in space, which could possibly expand for them dealing with all sort of happenings around Earth and the Solar System. UNTIL, specifically Project Stargazer, is probably instructed with handling the presence of superhumans/aliens/whatever you could think of in such an area.

If some authority would possess some degree of influence and power to truly make an individual be forced to register such kind of bases, my bet would be on UNTIL (although the hero could be working with some major government which may allow for specific cases, but since I am not aware of the extent of such laws, fictional or not, there is little I can directly point to, although most nations are on good terms with UNTIL).

I doubt satellite lasers (especially when under the control of a villain) would be considered "conventional weapons" but the definition can change when the superhuman element of the CU comes into play, the fact that countries such as the US possess technological resources beyond those of smaller, less-developed, countries could also give birth to some controversy over what counts as a "conventional weapon" for each country, given their resources and military power.

Unfortunately, that's how much I can get, if it's of any use. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong and/or give further instruction on the theme. Hope I helped.
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# 752
06-15-2012, 02:51 AM
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Question 1:
What is with human and inhuman rights in the Champions Universe?
Metahumans including werewolves and mutans probably are legally considered humans, but what about other subcjects?
Sentient undead (including vampires), extraplanar creatures (including demons, angels), spirits, inhuman species of Earth (Lemurians, for example) - do they have righs in human lands? Or hunting vampires or angels is an open game - creatures can be maimed, killed, destroyed simply because they exist, because they aren't protected by law (even if they are harmless, because not every sentient undead must have intentions for killing humans)?
Same question about independent and sentient machines.
If undead or mechanical villain is captured - he is jailed, or simply destroyed?
Same about aliens - do Qularr or Gadroon soldiers have any combatant rights? Or they can be treated as victor see fit?
Question 2:
What is more advanced - Xendron Network or Mechanon? Both are mechanoid factions. Also, do they could cooperate, or rather will end fighting each other?
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# 753
06-15-2012, 03:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Mee_da_CThunist
Question 1:
What is with human and inhuman rights in the Champions Universe?
Metahumans including werewolves and mutans probably are legally considered humans, but what about other subcjects?
Sentient undead (including vampires), extraplanar creatures (including demons, angels), spirits, inhuman species of Earth (Lemurians, for example) - do they have righs in human lands? Or hunting vampires or angels is an open game - creatures can be maimed, killed, destroyed simply because they exist, because they aren't protected by law (even if they are harmless, because not every sentient undead must have intentions for killing humans)?
Same question about independent and sentient machines.
If undead or mechanical villain is captured - he is jailed, or simply destroyed?
Same about aliens - do Qularr or Gadroon soldiers have any combatant rights? Or they can be treated as victor see fit?
Question 2:
What is more advanced - Xendron Network or Mechanon? Both are mechanoid factions. Also, do they could cooperate, or rather will end fighting each other?
The first question is hard, due to the number of sub-questions and potential situations that might be related to it. The Stronghold sourcebook has an entire chapter regarding Superhuman laws and similar phenomenon, but I do not possess it. Champions Universe (6th edition, at least) does have this specific paragraph:

"A number of Supreme Court rulings have stated that the Fourteenth Amendment’s guarantees of due process and equal protection do not apply to sentient aliens, extradimensional entities, artificial intelligences, and the undead, because they are not “persons” under the law. On the other hand, they do apply to mutants, mutates, clones, and genetic constructs based on human stock. Congress has, however, passed laws granting at least limited rights to all “independent, freewilled,sentient entities” in American territory."(Champions Universe p.51)

I hope this cleared the question, or at least, much of it. These laws can, of course, vary from nation to nation.

The second question is more hypothetical, since no certain comparison between their technology has been made. I could see Mechanon allying himself with the X'endron Network, such pact could convert them into truly powerful threats, for the Earth and beyond. Still, Mechanon sometimes expresses desire not to destroy organics but merely, to replace them, or some thought in that line, which could, perhaps, lead to a potential conflict. Again, purely hypothetical. Hope I helped.
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# 754
06-15-2012, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by LordOfTheAbyss
The first question is hard, due to the number of sub-questions and potential situations that might be related to it. The Stronghold sourcebook has an entire chapter regarding Superhuman laws and similar phenomenon, but I do not possess it. Champions Universe (6th edition, at least) does have this specific paragraph:

"A number of Supreme Court rulings have stated that the Fourteenth Amendment’s guarantees of due process and equal protection do not apply to sentient aliens, extradimensional entities, artificial intelligences, and the undead, because they are not “persons” under the law. On the other hand, they do apply to mutants, mutates, clones, and genetic constructs based on human stock. Congress has, however, passed laws granting at least limited rights to all “independent, freewilled,sentient entities” in American territory."(Champions Universe p.51)
Hey, hey, hey! I shouldn't just have skimmed through the book then! That means hunting vampires, undead and demons is like hunting animals? Good to know, hehe... That means the merc company of my main can shrink down its law department a bit. :D
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# 755
06-17-2012, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Kurobasa
I see, to be honest though, all those designs still feel better to me than Defender's current look (though I will admit the first one is silly but, it is that old school silly that you can't help but love.)
I've always been a fan of the New Millennium Defender's Armor. Heresy I know. But it's still better looking than the Auqabats getup he has now.
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# 756
06-26-2012, 03:39 AM
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Originally Posted by LordOfTheAbyss
Unfortunately, that's how much I can get, if it's of any use. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong and/or give further instruction on the theme. Hope I helped.
Lots to think about, to be sure, thanks for the attempted answer! Good to know for potential plots.
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# 757
06-27-2012, 01:39 AM
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I like current Defender's look, but I also think that his previous incarnation was better:
http://www.warehouse23.com/img/full/DOJHER207.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-3p96H7oxOV...s+Universe.jpg
https://www.herogames.com/get/champions1152x864.jpg
It had a bit more "techy" look and was more in line with the other PA characters like Viper X or Steel Commando.
Also, i like previous Witchcraft look more than curren one.
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# 758
06-27-2012, 07:06 AM
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I liked the original Defender armor from 5th Edition. But I have to admit, the MMO version is more distinctive. And they've improved it some since the game first came out. Originally his MMO armor had no direct connection between his helmet and the rest of his armor! (Heck - look directly above at the banner up top on this very forum!)

Not only an exposed chin, but an exposed NECK. Some players that I know started referring to him as "pop-top". >.>;;

Originally he also had open eye-holes. What was the point of that helmet again?

Since then they've made the design look more and more like actual armor rather than a set of tights. (He's still got an exposed Batman style chin. But if I can forgive Bat's for that, I can extend Defender the same suspension of disbelief.) Generally speaking I like it a lot.

Witchcraft - I disliked her original look in the MMO (with the ponytail), but over the last year or so, they've updated her and she looks very much like her book version. Same with Sapphire. Both of them had their proportion sliders tweaked as well, and now they look very nice.

Kinetik originally had a very different, asymmetrical costume design in the books. Still had a lightning bolt theme to it in red, black and white, so the new costume wasn't that much of a stretch, really. (Curiously though - Kinetic's original asymmetric lightning bolt design for the tights is actually something you can do in-game even now!)
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# 759 Can you clear up a discrepancy?
07-05-2012, 06:19 AM
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Hi.

I was wondering about something, simply because it ties in within a RP plot for my online character, and was kind of hoping you could clear it up.

In the P&P DEMON book, it says that the Basilisk Orb was lost by some heroes tossing it into a volcano in Micronesia. Then I came across the Eclipse (a la The Crowns of Krim) mission on the wiki, where it says that he's looking for the Orb in Canada.

Admittedly, I haven't gone through the Eclipse mission in Canada yet (I only came across it on the wiki, like I said), but was wondering which is considered canon? Or, which is also possible, am I simply missing a re-appearance of the Orb which caused it to be moved from the one locale to the other?

If you could clear this up for me, I would really appreciate it. Many thanks in advance.
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# 760
07-05-2012, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by cabraxusb View Post
Hi.

I was wondering about something, simply because it ties in within a RP plot for my online character, and was kind of hoping you could clear it up.

In the P&P DEMON book, it says that the Basilisk Orb was lost by some heroes tossing it into a volcano in Micronesia. Then I came across the Eclipse (a la The Crowns of Krim) mission on the wiki, where it says that he's looking for the Orb in Canada.

Admittedly, I haven't gone through the Eclipse mission in Canada yet (I only came across it on the wiki, like I said), but was wondering which is considered canon? Or, which is also possible, am I simply missing a re-appearance of the Orb which caused it to be moved from the one locale to the other?

If you could clear this up for me, I would really appreciate it. Many thanks in advance.
I'd assume the version that is mentioned in-game would be the proper version now. However I'm pretty sure there was a hint that there might be two different orbs. I remember reading that the Orb described in DEMON: Servants Of Darkness, had a corrupting influence associated with it. Whereas the Basilisk Orb described in Tuala Morn didn't. Saying that, the Celtic-themed Tuala Morn book is a Fantasy Hero setting and isn't officially linked to the Champions Universe.

Last edited by amosov78; 07-05-2012 at 07:16 AM.
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