uppercut vs haymaker

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pve damage - tap or charge, which is best? I'm afraid to grab haymaker because I don't want to be chasing mobs that survive the blow.

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Haymaker, tap it.

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Haymaker for sure.

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pve damage - tap or charge, which is best? I'm afraid to grab haymaker because I don't want to be chasing mobs that survive the blow.

Haymaker tap is your best single target damage power period. Tap has no knockback.

I've dropped UC now, although it's useful for a bit of crowd control.

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i like uppercut because of juggles and it's more energy effcient.

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Thanks for the insight. I knew uppercut was more efficient and is easier to control, but I didn't know haymaker didn't KB on tap...very useful to know. Perhaps I can make a might character now... I just have to round out some of the other themes.

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Pick up the Mysticism 50% reduced energy on melee attacks. Haymaker spam made dirt cheap.

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Haymaker tap is your best single target damage power period. Tap has no knockback.

I've dropped UC now, although it's useful for a bit of crowd control.

I didn't know that. I found the knockback to be annoying, so I only used it when necessary.

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Pick up the Mysticism 50% reduced energy on melee attacks. Haymaker spam made dirt cheap.

Or spec con/end and gear a bit for the 90-100 str you need for full damage with that for endless haymakers.

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Personally, I like both. Uppercut to knock them into the sky, and then charge Haymaker while they're falling. When they land, let it rip for a devastating one-two punch.

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On my melee toon I prefer uppercut to Haymaker. Tapping Haymaker is nice, but it feels like a waste really just to use it as a tap ability. Uppercut I really like because it does decent damage comparable to haymaker and knocks targets up instead of back. The best part is it only has a 1.2-1.5 second charge timer so it is quick enough to get those big hits in there.

With UC if i'm getting dealt some serious damage then I will fire off a quick volley of UCs on the henchmen to disrupt them then hit the primary target. UC + Roomsweep = godly to get the damage out there quickly enough. Also I believe that enemies take damage not only from uppercut, but from falling damage as well as they land on the ground. This gives UC a nice 1 2 combo that makes it quite useful compared to HM.

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I could choose haymaker over uppercut, or...

6155

I choose you Pikachu!

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Haymaker also has the HoT neutralize advantage, one of the better advantages in the game, especially in PvP.

Nullifying Punch
Ends any healing over time effects on your target, and causes them to receive only 50% benefit from any other incoming heals.

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Pick up the Mysticism 50% reduced energy on melee attacks. Haymaker spam made dirt cheap.

Can you elaborate on this -- is this something you craft?

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Pick up the Mysticism 50% reduced energy on melee attacks. Haymaker spam made dirt cheap.

What's the name of this?

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What's the name of this?

"Primal" is the keyword. See my thread on the item prefixes: The Ultimate Guide to Item Prefixes

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They have about the same DpE on click. For click DpS, Haymaker wins by far.

http://forums.champions-online.com/showthread.php?t=79558

In practice though, I find Uppercut to be more practical, at least as an opening attack. Especially true in PvP where you will need to get more than one hit in on your target. Uppercut gives you better charged DpE, plus you get all the fall damage, plus it keeps your target in one place for the next hit.

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Pick up the Mysticism 50% reduced energy on melee attacks. .

Is this a craftable item or a trait of Mysticism?... please clarify

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oddTodd and cyreeo -- thank you for the excellent links.

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If u have roomsweeper, use haymaker. If not, use uppercut. A funny thing is using uppercut and after that , roomsweeper. xD

Uppercut and heymaker are both good powers, so depends on your fight style.

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Heymaker is a good finisher for tough enemies as well. When Argent's mechs go into their cute little "defensive mode", you've got all the time in the world to charge up for a good hit.

My favorite part of heymaker, though, is what happens after a KO. If you finish someone off, they sometimes leave behind a '!' before they go flying. In other words, you hit them so hard that all their valuables get blown out of their pockets.

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On the might build that I am playing with I use uppercut for henchmen and tougher guys who aren't bosses. It is a Defiance defense build so I don't want a lot of adds or protracted fights.

I save Haymaker for boss fights. Since bosses can't be knocked back the KB effect on Haymaker translates into extra damage. I don't know how it scales but it looks like on bosses about 100 damage per fully charged Haymaker at level 14 which is quite nice I think.

--mcl

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Haymaker by a landslide. These are taps btw.

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Hello all, my apologies for reviving a thread but i wanted to point out a discovery. I am currently unemployed so after what i am about to say, sure, you can say i have no life all you like :).

SO here is the deal, i have spent a combined total of 29 hours in the powerhouse JUST testing abilities and builds to the slightest tweak and performance increase/decrease. I have only been playing for two weeks so i am pretty hardcore about experimentation. I noticed one interesting thing about Haymaker. Everyone says to tap it and thats fine and dandy its very good dps tapped. But i ended up giving the Retalliation block a try and i have been no less amazed. See, retalliation adds a roughly 40% damage buff to your next attack and Only to your next attack ( this doesnt work on DOTs, it only works on the first tick, meaning this is excellent if you wanna block and then unload a pyre strong enough to murder henchies 3 levels above you in one boom).

Now lets proceed, its obvious taht this incredible buff would be useless on a level 3 haymaker because the DPS taps dont utilize blast damage, they are more like powerful bee bee pellets rather than a long charged rocket. I also noted that with the increase in rank to the block, the increase in the buff scales as well. Now i have No idea if this scales with strength at all because i am an end/rec melee build with r3 regen and circle of primal for better tanking than my defiance and invul friends while still having amazing energy ability, i also stat for str to hit the 20% soft cap of melee damage increase from it and use conflag to light up henchies within a couple of seconds. I have soloed every single mission even when it was 3 to 4 levels above mine and involving a superboss or large amount of enemies like in fight club without tricks or glitch abuse so say what you will, it suits me just fine.

But I digress, either way, the fact is, haymaker takes a total of 2.73 seconds to charge and activate, this isnt really long at all in pve because of all teh possible roots, not to mention the fact that the AI is too dumb to move most of the time.

So, i was going from 1400 damage a hit on my charged haymaker, to about 1968 a hit plus an incredible knockback which also lead to about 600 fall damage when they hit the ground which ends up totaling roughly 2550 damage within no more than 2.73 seconds. Also note that unlike gigabolt, there is no energy form loss or massive penalty for the trade off. Thats incredible at level 20.

So bsically, when fighting a master villain, or even a supervillain which takes the fall damage instantly because it cant be knocked back. WIth a regen build, all i had to do was go in blocking, wait for him to attack me while i suffer little to NO damage, then unleash a 2.73 second charge haymaker bringing him down to VERY slightly above 1/3 of his health for master villain ( not counting fall damage) and LESS than 1/3 of a supervillains health. Then i lunge, and tap haymaker them to death, all the while suffering almost NO health loss.

So the fact is, charging haymaker has its plusses, if not even including knockback/fall damage, which should not be taken anywhere NEAR lightly, its STILL, literally, INCREDIBLE, It makes mince meat of master villains and super villains within about 5 or 6 seconds and thats with block up 60% of the time. I dont mind any flames that follow, check the stats for yourself ... charging haymaker is Excellent against tough fellows, but for normal villains, there is no reason not to tap unless you Have to turtle because they are way stronger than you.

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Pick up the Mysticism 50% reduced energy on melee attacks. Haymaker spam made dirt cheap.

At what lvl can you get this kind of item? Lvl 40?

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The prefix for those items is "Primal"

Here is a rundown
Tanking
Uppercut is better. The Knockup is extremely valuable in that it mitigates dmg without putting a huge space between you and your target.
DPS
No question, haymaker by a mile. It taps for crazy amounts. But always consider that haymaker eats a lot of energy. With 2 primal items, my uppercut taps for roughly 8 energy. Whereas, haymaker still takes 25+
So inbetween taps, you have more EB downtime for haymaker. I still vote for Uppercut. Less burst, but you can keep it up much much longer without having to build energy back. If you have way to eliminate that part, the haymaker by bounds.

PvP vs PvE
PvP, haymaker is all you need to win. No amount of anything from uppercut will beat the raw dmg output of haymaker.

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geez ... i spent about 6 more hours in the powerhouse after that post on the same combination XD. Either way, the strategy afformentioned is EXCELLENT in protector stance ( which doesnt lower your damage btw thats the supportive one). And its good in guardian too, though protector is optimal for utilizing the damage from the blow, i one hit villains with this strategy, 2 hit master villains, and 3-4 hit supers.

Truly amazed that no one seemed to mention the incredible all damage buff of retalliation, i mean i have a rank two pyre that i block for the damage buff, and then unleashe, one hitting all henchies around even 3 to 4 levels higher, and halving the life of all villains which means only one more Pyre if i dont feel like using haymaker. Honestly enjoying this strategy, hope you all liked the info. Buh byes :).

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At what lvl can you get this kind of item? Lvl 40?

As far as I know, the soonest you can pick up one of the Primal items is 28.

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As far as I know, the soonest you can pick up one of the Primal items is 28.

I guess it's whatever floats your boat but I can't see why anyone would prefer uppercut to haymaker. 2 taps are nearly as strong as uppers full charge.

I have them both but only cause i'm themed. ( I don't like using the same power all the time.)
I originally got it thinking I could launch an uppercut then a haymaker (ala energy transfer and total focus in COH) but it isn't necessary at all. I can do far more damage dps wise with a couple of taps and a full charge haymaker. Or haymaker full charge, super leap, repeat.

So, out of the two, in my book, haymaker wins hands down.