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View Full Version : my fix for Circle of Primal Dominion


Archived Post
11-03-2009, 08:13 AM
I don't generally read every "my fix" thread, so forgive me if this idea has been proposed before.

As everybody who has ever bumped into a near-immortal figure standing in a glowing circle of light knows, Circle of Primal Dominion is a bit broken. CoPD pumps out a passive heal from standing in it that competes quite nicely with some active heals - my 17th level character heals about as much from standing in CoPD as he does from channeling Celestial Conduit on himself. Add to that increased defenses and resistances from standing in CoPD and you have a truly awesome power. Next to sonic device and scything blade it has to be one of the powers most frequently cherry-picked from other frameworks.

To kill someone standing in a CoPD (regardless of if you are a cosmic or another player), you need to knock them out of the circle, do more dps than the circle provides hps, or do enough burst damage to kill the character outright. I'm not an expert on knockback mechanics so I'm going to ignore the first one - it's not largely relevant to PvE anyway, where very little keeps you from returning to your cicle.

The second is troublesome. If you toss effects in the game that do sustained dps after defenses sufficient to kill someone standing in CoPD, then you are going to maim defensive characters not in a CoPD and outright destroy characters in other stances.

The third would be a viable option except for the fact that everyone *hates* being killed by spike damage - go read threads about buff-stacking in PvP, or threads about the last boss of Andrith ruins if you disagree with that.

So what we need is a setup where CoPD either is weak against sustained dps or is weak against spike damage. It's hard to imagine a sustained hps power being somehow weak against sustained dps, so I CoPD needs to be weaker against spike damage.

I think this can be done by changing CoPD so that the more hurt you are, the more it heals you. Healing done should be reduced by the current percentage of health that you are at. If you're at 50% of your health, it heals you for 50% of what it does now. If you're at 25% of your health, it heals you for 75% of what it does now. If you're at 90% of your health, it heals you for 10% of what it does now. This will keep CoPD from pegging your health bar all the time, which will make you more susceptible to damage spikes.

I think this change will still allow CoPD to do it's intended function (be a defensive option for sorcery characters), still be worthwhile for defensive builds, but not provide the insane defensive capacity it does now.

Archived Post
11-03-2009, 08:29 AM
Why does everyone assume powers are "broken" just because they are powerful (and people with them killed you)?

There are many powerful abilities ... are we going to nerf them all? ... or just the ones we don't have?

CoPD is not broken. It does not need to be fixed. There are counters.

Archived Post
11-03-2009, 08:43 AM
if you don't like CoPD don't use it
my sorcery based character needs the healing involved or I go down fast
to combat CoPD all you need to do is force the person out of it and hold them and yes it can be done.
I think my only real argument with CoPD and a lot of powers is that they should be stat requirement.. I know a toon with a physical based character that has regen and CoPD which makes it annoying now you make the same physical character with invul and a CoPD to hide in there is nothing but annoyance to drop them...
The powers are not broken so much as being abused I think
I too have done this from time to time I had primal aura but once I got to 40th lvl the +21 stat add was like nothing as a damage add now if instead I switched to shadowform I can run in avenger mode and have a +21% damage increase on top of my +32 an +32 for high presence and int .. with primal I gain about 3 pts ..
The higher your lvl the worse the powers seem to unbalance .. shrug not mush to do about it and whining it is broken is not the problem they are just being used in a manner they were really intended for.

Archived Post
11-03-2009, 08:52 AM
My suggestion to fix CoPD is for people to STFU.

Archived Post
11-03-2009, 08:57 AM
My suggestion to fix CoPD is for people to STFU.

you know it is comments like this that are the reason that nothing constructive ever gets done..
what a great mature and thoughtful posting this was
I am one of the people who think CoPD is okay and yet I suddenly feel the desire to change my mind

Archived Post
11-03-2009, 09:04 AM
My suggestion to the whole buff and debuff and CoPD debate is to add a damn cancel power. Add a power to the sorcery framework called "counterspell". Have it remove all buffs and debuffs from the target/cancel CoPD.

Archived Post
11-03-2009, 09:14 AM
I don't generally read every "my fix" thread, so forgive me if this idea has been proposed before.

As everybody who has ever bumped into a near-immortal figure standing in a glowing circle of light knows, Circle of Primal Dominion is a bit broken. CoPD pumps out a passive heal from standing in it that competes quite nicely with some active heals - my 17th level character heals about as much from standing in CoPD as he does from channeling Celestial Conduit on himself. Add to that increased defenses and resistances from standing in CoPD and you have a truly awesome power. Next to sonic device and scything blade it has to be one of the powers most frequently cherry-picked from other frameworks.

To kill someone standing in a CoPD (regardless of if you are a cosmic or another player), you need to knock them out of the circle, do more dps than the circle provides hps, or do enough burst damage to kill the character outright. I'm not an expert on knockback mechanics so I'm going to ignore the first one - it's not largely relevant to PvE anyway, where very little keeps you from returning to your cicle.

The second is troublesome. If you toss effects in the game that do sustained dps after defenses sufficient to kill someone standing in CoPD, then you are going to maim defensive characters not in a CoPD and outright destroy characters in other stances.

The third would be a viable option except for the fact that everyone *hates* being killed by spike damage - go read threads about buff-stacking in PvP, or threads about the last boss of Andrith ruins if you disagree with that.

So what we need is a setup where CoPD either is weak against sustained dps or is weak against spike damage. It's hard to imagine a sustained hps power being somehow weak against sustained dps, so I CoPD needs to be weaker against spike damage.

I think this can be done by changing CoPD so that the more hurt you are, the more it heals you. Healing done should be reduced by the current percentage of health that you are at. If you're at 50% of your health, it heals you for 50% of what it does now. If you're at 25% of your health, it heals you for 75% of what it does now. If you're at 90% of your health, it heals you for 10% of what it does now. This will keep CoPD from pegging your health bar all the time, which will make you more susceptible to damage spikes.

I think this change will still allow CoPD to do it's intended function (be a defensive option for sorcery characters), still be worthwhile for defensive builds, but not provide the insane defensive capacity it does now.

CoPD has some serious Drawbacks so I am not in favor of a nerf to it.

The most debilitating issue with it is the fact that you must stay inside of t. Meaning you lose the benefits if you give chase or are forced to run.

The combination of powers needed to make you invincible don't leave room for much else. In PvE you are killing things so much slower do to prep time and the stat and power setup you need.

In PvP it doesn't help a great deal because it essentially takes you out of the fight against a smart team.

It has it's uses but it's not really OP'd due to the limitations.

Archived Post
11-03-2009, 09:30 AM
It is obvious the issue being commented on is a PvP issue. Though there are some comments about PvE they are faint for the most part and added in to portray the power as having an issue in both realms.

Sadly I repeat for the umpteenth time so those that don't know now do. The game mechanics in this game where created in such a way that changing a power effects it in both realms, the PvP and PvE. Thus they are very reluctant to change a power for one side as it would make the power almost useless for the other side.

That being said, this is really a thread for the Hero forum.

I will add though I am not a PvPer atm as I think its just too out of control atm and I am waiting for this game to cool down a bit with all the fixes and repairs that need to be done. I do read and comment in the Hero forum and I have to say I have NOT seen pretty much anyone complain about this power in that Forum.

As some have stated KB would render this power useless in a PvP environment. Now of KB I have read many people complaining about KB issues in PvP.

End results I think you misspoke a bit and everyone does it. Though I do not feel that someone should say to anyone STFU. That is out of line and cowardly regardless of what rage you may have about the GAME.

I would suggest you go over to the hero forum and read up on the many issues and min and max complaints it is quite the CO PvP learning experience.

Archived Post
11-03-2009, 09:35 AM
My suggestion to the whole buff and debuff and CoPD debate is to add a damn cancel power. Add a power to the sorcery framework called "counterspell". Have it remove all buffs and debuffs from the target/cancel CoPD.

Celestial Cleansing does remove a buff when cast on an enemy.

Archived Post
11-03-2009, 09:37 AM
CoPD is so easily countered in PvP it's not even funny. People that plant a circle in PvP are nothing mroe than free kills except to those who expect people to fall over constantly at a wave of their hand. Hell, had several trying to exploit the bug in the Bite! event planting a circle and standing there. Werewolves rip them up you just don't heal fast enough for the incoming damage.

Archived Post
11-03-2009, 09:49 AM
To those saying it doesn't need a nerf : you are clueless.

My circle used to heal for 200, which is not much, it was ok, but after the blood moon patch it is healing for 550+ for some reason, the truth is that once i cast the circle i'm immortal, soloing legendary, cosmics, everything with ease, some of them you don't even need to block, simorgh as an example, luckly the loot is bugged, but all you have to do is cast a circle and afk, it is NOT ok.

I rarely pvp, and i do understand it isn't much of a big deal there but well, against people who don't have knockbacks / repels, again, immortality.

Archived Post
11-03-2009, 10:01 AM
I've got a better solution:

Get rid of it altogether.

It's an awful, awful power. Imo, the worst one in the game currently. It's completely inappropriate for sorcery, wizards in comics are not tanks. Dr Strange isn't a tank, in fact that's probably his only weakness, his lack of resistance to damage when he isn't ready for it.

If it, or something like it, is retained then it should be in one of the tank sets - Might or Power Armour. I can see the possibility for some sort of protective, self-rooting power that only works so long as you don't move at all, based on the Blob's ability to plant himself.

It makes what ought to be challenging fights - PvE bosses such as Poe and Medusa - trivial non-encounters. It allows the solo-ing of 5-man content.

There's way too big a gulf between the strongest and the weakest builds currently. The weakest - lowbie martial artists without any kind of passive - are dying to normal 1-man encounters. The strongest are solo-ing 5-man. There need to be buffs and there need to be nerfs. And first on the nerf list must be CoPD as the most powerful PvE power in the game.

Archived Post
11-03-2009, 10:02 AM
You're not supposed to fight Sigmorph... *facepalms*

Archived Post
11-03-2009, 10:03 AM
when he isn't ready for it.

Key words. CoPD is getting ready for it.

Archived Post
11-03-2009, 10:22 AM
To those saying it doesn't need a nerf : you are clueless.

My circle used to heal for 200, which is not much, it was ok, but after the blood moon patch it is healing for 550+ for some reason, the truth is that once i cast the circle i'm immortal, soloing legendary, cosmics, everything with ease, some of them you don't even need to block, simorgh as an example, luckly the loot is bugged, but all you have to do is cast a circle and afk, it is NOT ok.

I rarely pvp, and i do understand it isn't much of a big deal there but well, against people who don't have knockbacks / repels, again, immortality.

1. You are most definitely NOT soloing any cosmics with COPD alone, as part of a bar dedicated to tanking, maybe, but then that's about a combination of powers and not COPD. You are NOT immortal in COPD, go set the Lemurian PH battlestation to 2-3 quantity Karkaradon even level mobs and get back to us on how "immortal" COPD makes you.

2. You are immobilized, and can be held very easily, smoke grenaded, repelled, yanked out, knocked up, and these days, damaged down very quickly.

3. COPD has its uses, mainly when you can stand still and kill a bunch of stupid mobs. COPDs power comes more from the poor mob AI in CO than anything else.

4. In most encounters, by the time you have the circle up and your END regenned, I've killed all the mobs. People griping about how OP COPD is ALWAYS neglect that it adds five seconds of setup time to every single encounter where it's used.

To the person who says COPD is the most powerful PvE ability in the game, I use COPD on two toons... occasionally, and neither would give up gigabolt or force cascade if they had to choose between those and COPD. Powers like Ego Storm and grasping shadows negate MUCH more incoming damage than COPD does and have the nice fringe benefit of killing the mobs at the same time.

There are truly imbalanced powers in CO that need immediate attention, COPD isn't one.

Archived Post
11-03-2009, 10:28 AM
I thought thats was the reason for the following powers.

Anything from Force
Tractor Beam
Iron Lariot
Punchy powers from Might
Scarnes Bane
Iron Cyclose
Chain Kunai

Archived Post
11-03-2009, 10:30 AM
My circle used to heal for 200, which is not much, it was ok, but after the blood moon patch it is healing for 550+ for some reason

For the record, have you noticed how fast the tics of health are? It's been noted on the test forum that although it looks like you're recovering "more" its doing it on longer intervals so the number is higher but less frequent so you're still technically receiving the same healing.

That aside, this power is not broken, this power is not overpowered. Everyone fails to neglect the fact that this power alone does not make people into immobile dem-tank gods. People who use this circle can also have strength for knockback resistance, they can take defiance, resurgance, regeneration, invulnerability, etc. all to be used in conjunction with this power.

It would be very easy to start a thread saying "omg this X defense power is OP" and fail to neglect the other plethora of powers I've used in conjunction to give the delusion that this X defense is overpowered irregardless of what else I use.

Moreover, let's take a look at these powerset this belongs to: Sorcery. The powerset with so-so damage, pathetic, underperforming pets, and SUPPORT passives as far as the eye can see. Running in support mode with low health, and low defense, I'd like to think Sorcery deserves something to make sure they don't get rolled over everytime a villain sneezes on them.

Let's not also forget the downsides to this power, immobility and INCREASED susceptibility to holds. From a PvP standpoint, it's been said over and over how anyone with enough braincells can do away with someone who tries to use this circle. From a PvE standpoint, does anyone remember what kind of a quickpaced game this is?

Long activation times and immobility are not something you look to when you're constantly moving in this game. You give up alot, and you gain alot. For a Sorcery character, especially, it can be worth the sacrifice since immobility is what the framework is centered around. So to label themselves with a big "I can't move, shoot me" sign with all the other static immobile powers it offers, having one of those immobile powers being defense, it needs it.

If there is a problem, the problem is the use of 5 or 6 defensive and healing powers in conjunction, not just one of them. Leave Sorcery be.

Archived Post
11-03-2009, 10:33 AM
You're not supposed to fight Sigmorph... *facepalms*

You engage him, and he kills himself, in the end whoever had his aggro gets the loot, so yeah, cast circle, atack him once, go to the bathroom, 3 minutes later you won the fight.

To jomungar:

Obviously not from COPD alone, it is a combination of force sheath, lightning reflexes and COPD, COPD is the biggest responsable tho.

To Spellbinder04:

It was deffnetly buffed, i couldn't afk on simorgh before the buff

Archived Post
11-03-2009, 10:43 AM
To those saying it doesn't need a nerf : you are clueless.

My circle used to heal for 200, which is not much, it was ok, but after the blood moon patch it is healing for 550+ for some reason

Try a one-one-thousand, two-one-thousand count while regenerating. The reason is that the tick was changed to every 2 seconds instead of every second, with double the amount healed per tick. Probably done so that it can be more easily compared with Regeneration's two-second tick. To wit, it's providing the same regen as before. Add a guess that someone leveled fairly recently as well and presto, numbers discrepancy explained.

This clue provided by Stacking Defenses(TM), the leading cause of Not Dying. Try some now!

Archived Post
11-03-2009, 10:49 AM
I use CoPD on my tank, and I definitely would say it doesn't need a nerf, especially when being used with melee chars. There are many drawbacks... You can be KB'd out, recieve a heal debuff, or just be plain DPS'd past the healing. All three have happened to me in both PvP and PvE. It's a great tool for tanking cosmics and Legendaries, but there are other ways to do so. It's good for survivability in PvP, but all it takes is a KB out, and then a hold before the opposite team rips you apart to take you down. Any smart team or team that knows what they're doing or what powers do at all would figure this out quickly. It's definitely more "OP'd" in PvE, but even then it's not the end all be all. Sure, it can make tanking, but that's only if you have a number of other defensive powers/heals to support it.

In short, there is no reason to nerf this power. In PvP, learn to work around it through strategy or smart power usage, in PvE, if you don't like it don't use it.

Archived Post
11-03-2009, 10:51 AM
Why does everyone assume powers are "broken" just because they are powerful (and people with them killed you)?

There are many powerful abilities ... are we going to nerf them all? ... or just the ones we don't have?

CoPD is not broken. It does not need to be fixed. There are counters.

I agree with this statement.

Archived Post
11-03-2009, 11:08 AM
To those saying it doesn't need a nerf : you are clueless.

My circle used to heal for 200, which is not much, it was ok, but after the blood moon patch it is healing for 550+ for some reason, the truth is that once i cast the circle i'm immortal, soloing legendary, cosmics, everything with ease, some of them you don't even need to block, simorgh as an example, luckly the loot is bugged, but all you have to do is cast a circle and afk, it is NOT ok.

I rarely pvp, and i do understand it isn't much of a big deal there but well, against people who don't have knockbacks / repels, again, immortality.

Well I have it as well. I do see it heal for 200s and not 550s I'm at level 27. If your higher then that then you should see it healing for a lot higher. I also have PFF at level 3 and I die.

If you don't have Knockbacks or pulls in PvP you should not be in PvP. But again that is a discussion for the hero forum.

Archived Post
11-03-2009, 11:13 AM
For the record, have you noticed how fast the tics of health are? It's been noted on the test forum that although it looks like you're recovering "more" its doing it on longer intervals so the number is higher but less frequent so you're still technically receiving the same healing.

That aside, this power is not broken, this power is not overpowered. Everyone fails to neglect the fact that this power alone does not make people into immobile dem-tank gods. People who use this circle can also have strength for knockback resistance, they can take defiance, resurgance, regeneration, invulnerability, etc. all to be used in conjunction with this power.

It would be very easy to start a thread saying "omg this X defense power is OP" and fail to neglect the other plethora of powers I've used in conjunction to give the delusion that this X defense is overpowered irregardless of what else I use.

Moreover, let's take a look at these powerset this belongs to: Sorcery. The powerset with so-so damage, pathetic, underperforming pets, and SUPPORT passives as far as the eye can see. Running in support mode with low health, and low defense, I'd like to think Sorcery deserves something to make sure they don't get rolled over everytime a villain sneezes on them.

Let's not also forget the downsides to this power, immobility and INCREASED susceptibility to holds. From a PvP standpoint, it's been said over and over how anyone with enough braincells can do away with someone who tries to use this circle. From a PvE standpoint, does anyone remember what kind of a quickpaced game this is?

Long activation times and immobility are not something you look to when you're constantly moving in this game. You give up alot, and you gain alot. For a Sorcery character, especially, it can be worth the sacrifice since immobility is what the framework is centered around. So to label themselves with a big "I can't move, shoot me" sign with all the other static immobile powers it offers, having one of those immobile powers being defense, it needs it.

If there is a problem, the problem is the use of 5 or 6 defensive and healing powers in conjunction, not just one of them. Leave Sorcery be.

You know your on the money with this. I was thinking it but just put it down. I run PFF 3 and COPD and have Force shield with Sheathe. I also think my shield is level 2. So yes I am tough, but with COPD alone.

Archived Post
11-03-2009, 11:25 AM
I use it on my tank and in no way have i seen it as being overpowered. There are many occasions i dont even bother dropping the circle especially in groups due to the amount of time it takes to cast it and the fact that about 1 out of 3 times the mob actually stays were i can build aggro on him. In PvP it seems like a pretty cut and dry deal. It takes upwards of 5 seconds to cast it, if you see some one standing there waving there arms over there head KB them and if they somehow manage to actually get the circle up knock them out and hit them with a hold.

There has been many occasions that i have been hit hit with KBs trying to drop a CoPD and had the spell interupted. Like a poster mentioned above the players that the op are encoutering seem to be these imovable objects of tanking goodness are not doing it by just using CoPD alone. These are players that know how to synergize there powers to get the maximium benefits out of it. There are also players on the other end of the spectrum that know how to counter the before mentioned players.

Before people cry nerf they really should look at all sides of the problem and not just what seems to be the obvious cause. Just because you see a circle at players feet does not mean that is the underlying cause of there tanking godliness. Stop and ask yourself what is going on behind the scenes. go through your combat logs throughly and see whats going on. Hell even send the player a PM, basically get more feedback from your surrondings before jumpiong to a knee jerk conclusion.

Archived Post
11-03-2009, 12:33 PM
It's an awful, awful power. Imo, the worst one in the game currently. It's completely inappropriate for sorcery, wizards in comics are not tanks. Dr Strange isn't a tank, in fact that's probably his only weakness, his lack of resistance to damage when he isn't ready for it.

Dr. Doom would beg to differ. Of course, you could easily say he's using a FF or invul or something, the sorcery aspect is just RP flavor. But Dr. Doom is next in line for Dr. Strange's title and isn't a pansy.

Although, that isn't ready for it bit...would that be like before he casts a circle?

It makes what ought to be challenging fights - PvE bosses such as Poe and Medusa - trivial non-encounters. It allows the solo-ing of 5-man content.

Most 5 man content can be solo'd without it. And what can't, the legendary and cosmic stuff, it allows a melee tank to do in a group. Without it, he'd be at a severe disadvantage compared to ranged types unless he's got a support type tied to his hip. A support type that doesn't need a tank or CoPD.

There's way too big a gulf between the strongest and the weakest builds currently. The weakest - lowbie martial artists without any kind of passive - are dying to normal 1-man encounters. The strongest are solo-ing 5-man. There need to be buffs and there need to be nerfs. And first on the nerf list must be CoPD as the most powerful PvE power in the game.

Actually, the single most powerful PvE power is block, not CoPD. Guess that's technically multiple powers, but when actively blocking, all about the same.

With just CoPD, no block, legendary and 5 man creatures would still kill me. Without block, even with a support type, I'd probably wind up quite dead from legendary creatures, though I could probably come up with a presence/heal based build that'd work. Without block, my support type cannot easily tank a legendary at range.

Block is the problem. It reduces damage way too much. It makes so it on anything the devs actually want to hurt us, like a legendary mob, it has to hit hard enough to hurt us through block. And that means any failure to block is very, very bad. And therefore, healing is required. So pretty much anyone can "tank" due to block, especially if they stay at range, but a melee tank type character must have healing to fill his role. Since others do not require tanks to function, a tank really shouldn't require an outside healer to function.

Once that have been dealt with, then the devs can feel free to look into CoPD and legendary critter damage. But until then, they should leave it alone, as it makes things playable despite design bugs for PvE and, for PvP, mobility is worth far more.

Archived Post
11-03-2009, 02:50 PM
I don't generally read every "my fix" thread, so forgive me if this idea has been proposed before.

As everybody who has ever bumped into a near-immortal figure standing in a glowing circle of light knows, Circle of Primal Dominion is a bit broken. CoPD pumps out a passive heal from standing in it that competes quite nicely with some active heals - my 17th level character heals about as much from standing in CoPD as he does from channeling Celestial Conduit on himself. Add to that increased defenses and resistances from standing in CoPD and you have a truly awesome power. Next to sonic device and scything blade it has to be one of the powers most frequently cherry-picked from other frameworks.

To kill someone standing in a CoPD (regardless of if you are a cosmic or another player), you need to knock them out of the circle, do more dps than the circle provides hps, or do enough burst damage to kill the character outright. I'm not an expert on knockback mechanics so I'm going to ignore the first one - it's not largely relevant to PvE anyway, where very little keeps you from returning to your cicle.

The second is troublesome. If you toss effects in the game that do sustained dps after defenses sufficient to kill someone standing in CoPD, then you are going to maim defensive characters not in a CoPD and outright destroy characters in other stances.

The third would be a viable option except for the fact that everyone *hates* being killed by spike damage - go read threads about buff-stacking in PvP, or threads about the last boss of Andrith ruins if you disagree with that.

So what we need is a setup where CoPD either is weak against sustained dps or is weak against spike damage. It's hard to imagine a sustained hps power being somehow weak against sustained dps, so I CoPD needs to be weaker against spike damage.

I think this can be done by changing CoPD so that the more hurt you are, the more it heals you. Healing done should be reduced by the current percentage of health that you are at. If you're at 50% of your health, it heals you for 50% of what it does now. If you're at 25% of your health, it heals you for 75% of what it does now. If you're at 90% of your health, it heals you for 10% of what it does now. This will keep CoPD from pegging your health bar all the time, which will make you more susceptible to damage spikes.

I think this change will still allow CoPD to do it's intended function (be a defensive option for sorcery characters), still be worthwhile for defensive builds, but not provide the insane defensive capacity it does now.

As some one with CoPD, and who encounters this power frequently in PvP, it's far from over-powered. First, you need to do nothing for 3 seconds, in PvP, casting a long animation everyone knows. Plenty of time to interrupt it. Secondly, with a high strength, KBing some one out of their circle is easy as pie. CoPD, in terms of PvP, is best used when you need to turtle, since no player in their right mind just stands in range while you're nigh-invincible.

Simply put: Yes, it's good, but there are many ways to counter it. As for PvE: the problems that plague Melee in PvE plague CoPD doubly so, since leaving the circle to chase after enemies who run out of range means you're suddenly much more vulnerable. I really believe that anyone who thinks CoPD is too powerful hasn't tried using it themself. You will die while using this power. It is not an "I win" button.

Archived Post
11-03-2009, 03:19 PM
Key words. CoPD is getting ready for it.What I mean by getting ready for it, is that the wizard is aware of each attack and defends against them separately. CoPD is different. Once cast, it stays up for quite a while, and essentially magically transforms the wizard into the Thing combined with Wolverine. Dr Strange doesn't have any spells analogous to CoPD, in fact I've never seen a wizard in comics cast a spell that basically gives them the defensive abilities of Wolverine and the Thing combined. Comics writers probably think it's a little inappropriate for a wizard to be bouncing bullets off his indestructible body.

What Dr Strange does seem to have is an active defence, he conjures small temporary force barriers to block single attacks. In other words - Eldritch Shield.

A magic circle type of spell ought to have an effect that keeps out hostiles ie prevents them from attacking the wizard, until he crosses the circle, ie makes an attack himself, at which point the circle is negated and vanishes. Obviously such a power isn't that good, so it shouldn't cost all the wizard's energy as the current circles do. Such a power would more closely resemble the magic circles of fiction.

Archived Post
11-03-2009, 03:31 PM
I really believe that anyone who thinks CoPD is too powerful hasn't tried using it themself. You will die while using this power. It is not an "I win" button.I've used it quite a bit and I don't actually recall ever dying against appropriate opposition (ie equal level, solo or 2-man missions) when I have it up. It really is an 'I win button'.

See the thing is, what people can do in this game - tanking cosmics and legendaries without a healer, killing Poe without pressing block - that's not good. That's not intended. You shouldn't be able to do that. And I can say CoPD makes a bigger difference than any other factor, having used it fairly extensively.

To be quite honest an 'I win button' is precisely the way I've seen the power in solo PvE when I've had it. Use this to breeze through what would otherwise be a tricky boss fight. It's way better than Regen. And many people swear by Regen, saying they need it, pointing out what a huge difference it makes from lvl 5-25 or so. They're right, Regen is awesome. It does make a big difference. Well CoPD is 2 to 3 times *better* than Regen. It gives twice as much healing and it provides a boost to dmg mitigation.

The requirement to stay in one place is irrelevant if you are ranged. If you are knocked out of it you can just move back, or if that's not possible, resummon, it's not like it has a cooldown.

Archived Post
11-03-2009, 03:38 PM
Dr. Doom would beg to differ. Of course, you could easily say he's using a FF or invul or something, the sorcery aspect is just RP flavor. But Dr. Doom is next in line for Dr. Strange's title and isn't a pansy.Yeah, Doom's got a force field and armor, he's quite tanky but I don't think his tankiness stems from his magic. I've seen him making temporary shields like Dr Strange, always I think against magic attacks. Analogous to Eldritch Shield, not CoPD.

Block is the problem.Yes. Block is also a problem. The designers idea seems to have been that you just hold block down briefly when you see the Freem! above the bad guy's head, not for a long time while your Ego Sprites go to work and your Regen/CoPD heal you back to max. That use is, in fact, not working as intended I believe.

Simple solution - have a time limit on how long block can be held down, like 5 seconds, and a cooldown along the lines of 20 seconds.

Archived Post
11-03-2009, 03:40 PM
Add me to the list of players who say leave it alone.

I have chained kunai on my main specifically to deal with this power. But, there are a bunch of knockback/knockup/lasso powers (force, might, supernatural, darkness, etc) that work just as well.

Also, if you are silly enough to stand perfectly still in PvP, you deserve every single swallow tail cut you get.

And even PvE, it's good, but not great. Plenty of mobs have knockback and lasso powers. And, as always, health regen does nothing to save you from 5k-10k hits.

Archived Post
11-03-2009, 03:42 PM
You're not supposed to fight Sigmorph... *facepalms*

This is probably the best invalidation of his claims of OP CoPD.

I like that Sig is special, it allows us to find the ignorant.

Archived Post
11-03-2009, 03:43 PM
I've used it quite a bit and I don't actually recall ever dying against appropriate opposition (ie equal level, solo or 2-man missions) when I have it up. It really is an 'I win button'.

See the thing is, what people can do in this game - tanking cosmics and legendaries without a healer, killing Poe without pressing block - that's not good. That's not intended. You shouldn't be able to do that. And I can say CoPD makes a bigger difference than any other factor, having used it fairly extensively.

To be quite honest an 'I win button' is precisely the way I've seen the power in solo PvE when I've had it. Use this to breeze through what would otherwise be a tricky boss fight. It's way better than Regen. And many people swear by Regen, saying they need it, pointing out what a huge difference it makes from lvl 5-25 or so. They're right, Regen is awesome. It does make a big difference. Well CoPD is 2 to 3 times *better* than Regen. It gives twice as much healing and it provides a boost to dmg mitigation.

The requirement to stay in one place is irrelevant if you are ranged. If you are knocked out of it you can just move back, or if that's not possible, resummon, it's not like it has a cooldown.

Out of curiousity, what level are you?

It's been my experience that regen, and regen-like powers fall off pretty heavily once you start getting higher levels. They're always good against the usual 3-man henchman groups, but they become near worthless to solo bosses with because bosses just hit too hard without some type of damage mitigation.

Archived Post
11-03-2009, 04:02 PM
I don't generally read every "my fix" thread, so forgive me if this idea has been proposed before.

As everybody who has ever bumped into a near-immortal figure standing in a glowing circle of light knows, Circle of Primal Dominion is a bit broken. CoPD pumps out a passive heal from standing in it that competes quite nicely with some active heals - my 17th level character heals about as much from standing in CoPD as he does from channeling Celestial Conduit on himself. Add to that increased defenses and resistances from standing in CoPD and you have a truly awesome power. Next to sonic device and scything blade it has to be one of the powers most frequently cherry-picked from other frameworks.

To kill someone standing in a CoPD (regardless of if you are a cosmic or another player), you need to knock them out of the circle, do more dps than the circle provides hps, or do enough burst damage to kill the character outright. I'm not an expert on knockback mechanics so I'm going to ignore the first one - it's not largely relevant to PvE anyway, where very little keeps you from returning to your cicle.

The second is troublesome. If you toss effects in the game that do sustained dps after defenses sufficient to kill someone standing in CoPD, then you are going to maim defensive characters not in a CoPD and outright destroy characters in other stances.

The third would be a viable option except for the fact that everyone *hates* being killed by spike damage - go read threads about buff-stacking in PvP, or threads about the last boss of Andrith ruins if you disagree with that.

So what we need is a setup where CoPD either is weak against sustained dps or is weak against spike damage. It's hard to imagine a sustained hps power being somehow weak against sustained dps, so I CoPD needs to be weaker against spike damage.

I think this can be done by changing CoPD so that the more hurt you are, the more it heals you. Healing done should be reduced by the current percentage of health that you are at. If you're at 50% of your health, it heals you for 50% of what it does now. If you're at 25% of your health, it heals you for 75% of what it does now. If you're at 90% of your health, it heals you for 10% of what it does now. This will keep CoPD from pegging your health bar all the time, which will make you more susceptible to damage spikes.

I think this change will still allow CoPD to do it's intended function (be a defensive option for sorcery characters), still be worthwhile for defensive builds, but not provide the insane defensive capacity it does now.
That would be the point now, wouldn't it?? :D.

CoPD is only "overpowered" if they are also using defensive passives and heals...which means they are sacrificing a LOT of attack potential. IMO if they want to do that, so be it. They can stand and have a turtle standoff until they get bored and fall asleep for all I care :).

Archived Post
11-03-2009, 04:13 PM
I used CoPD to do the Halloween event at level 26 in a team that changed members but never had more than 3 including myself.

Other than Tiger where I finally had to use my alt (giving me a 10+ level advantage on him) I was the teams tank for every zombie hero. Versus Tiger, who was the only one that seemed to "sick" the entire zombie horde on you from time to time, CoPD, Defiance (6 stacked), Forceshield blocking, were STILL not enough to survive the damage when the "horde" came after me.

I have Ego Storm as a toggle as well as Sparkstorm with my primary attack being Firebreath. So I really am well built for surviving attacks by "hordes" of creatures but I couldn't survive that event at close to "even con" with Tiger and his zombies. My focus stat's are End/Con and they are as gear boosted as I could manage at that level.

There is a point to this story, exactly how without CoPD do you survive the truly nasty tanking jobs? I had everything except a dedicated healer (which would have died in seconds had they tried healing me) and due to the fact I was fighting undead (so my backup of Life Drain was useless) I had no other option but the circle to tank from. So from everyone who believes that CoPD needs nerfing, what's the backup plan? Someone has to be takeing the big hits when your fighting Legendary's or higher and while I'll admit I don't have a 40 tank type to know if it's possible without CoPD at that level, it doesn't seem very possible on the way getting to 40.

Archived Post
11-03-2009, 04:17 PM
CoPD is one of those powers that if you don't have the counter for it (consistent knockbacks or repel or REALLY HEAVY damage with block breaker), then it is completely overpowered.


It's a real real big ROCK and you need an even bigger PAPER to engulf it. During lowbie lvls when power choices are fewer, if you fight someone with CoPD and you have no reliable counter, you are doomed. Simple as that.

Personally, I feel CoPD is a bit on the overpowered side on a Healer... healers who pack a lot of supporting powers to withstand the damage. I guess this is why Shotgun and Lash haven't got nerfed because you kind need something to keep knocking him out. The problem with those knockbacks is when you fight somebody who is not using CoPD. T_T

I think CoPD in PvE is definitely overpowered because anyone with range attacks can use it..or some odd melee builds that just tank. CoPD is one of the powers that make this game very unfriendly to team. Very few people want to team if you have a power like this. Who cares about support if you can cast it yourself?

Archived Post
11-03-2009, 04:50 PM
CoPD is one of those powers that if you don't have the counter for it (consistent knockbacks or repel or REALLY HEAVY damage with block breaker), then it is completely overpowered.


It's a real real big ROCK and you need an even bigger PAPER to engulf it. During lowbie lvls when power choices are fewer, if you fight someone with CoPD and you have no reliable counter, you are doomed. Simple as that.

Personally, I feel CoPD is a bit on the overpowered side on a Healer... healers who pack a lot of supporting powers to withstand the damage. I guess this is why Shotgun and Lash haven't got nerfed because you kind need something to keep knocking him out. The problem with those knockbacks is when you fight somebody who is not using CoPD. T_T

I think CoPD in PvE is definitely overpowered because anyone with range attacks can use it..or some odd melee builds that just tank. CoPD is one of the powers that make this game very unfriendly to team. Very few people want to team if you have a power like this. Who cares about support if you can cast it yourself?

You can team in this game ?

Archived Post
11-03-2009, 05:07 PM
ok as a 40th level sorcerer it is true that CopD can let you survive fights with legendaires and sometimes cosmic but today I was helping with mega dest and got agro .. now all he keeps doing is pushing me out of y circle and by the time I can bring it back up I am dead..
Against standard mobs master villian and under I seldom bother presetting CoPD I don't need to but supervillains and above I need it for them or I die a lot. they will use KB and holds and you die very fast since sorcery based characters are squishy with limited HPs .
yes the power can be abused but it is not the be all end all power in the universe.
at almost 240 int and 240 pres I can hold my own but so can a proper melee build ..
I can solo legendaries 20 levels beneath my level but it takes forever and so can any other properly speced character
crying CoPD is too powerful is great maybe they should nerf it but since I I won't be able to do all these things I guess they need the nerf regen .. invuln .. resug ..
the biggest thing is that you get a big jump in all powers with limited required stat bonuses in many sets..
the answer is to make powers limit with a minimal stat requirement or use a graduated power system like the soft stat caps we have.
yes I can solo legendaries but I abuilt to solo .. I don't do a whole lot of damage but I cn with stand the damage.. and if you don't like sorcerers tanking lets get rid of the sorcery radiant aura buff too since it grants me a lot of defense now...
I could make a sorcerer that is all blaster and ranged but I don't have to..
that is the point to this game get the stero types out of your head ..
and for all of you who think Dr Strange was a physical push over think about the fact "earth's sorcerer supreme" his spells could do anything he wanted them to he just had a habit of doing things they way he did