Friday's Celestial Update

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To keep you occupied this weekend, I've revealed the first power in the second tier of Celestial powers. It's Redemption (http://www.champions-online.com/node/594383). Have a great weekend!


Link to the news article. (http://www.champions-online.com/node/594576)

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Hmm yet another Res only useable OUT of combat. Do you guys not realize how useless those are due to the way this game works?

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=/ Seconding the thumbs down on out of combat rezzes. It's usually pointless by then, they could have already run back.

EDIT: To be clear, I'm excited about the set in general. But out of combat-only rezzing keeps me from taking a rez at all.

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"Salvation - Redemption can now resurrect up to 5 targets within 25 feet of you. Healing received is divided amongst targets resurrected."

So you can now raise more people than you can group with? I suppose, as this is an 'out of combat only' power; that the res'r can sit outside a group fighting and raise them all in the event of a wipe.... ya.

And I, too, am generally interested in the new power set. This power seems a bit off, however.

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Given how "out of combat" requires that nobody on your team be in combat, to use this power at all requires an unprecedented level of coordination and restraint from the players, and furthermore it is entirely useless in all but the largest instances, since they would be able to respawn and run back before combat ends. Even if they can't, this power has one purpose, and one purpose only: reducing downtime from waiting for people to come back after the fight ends, which is not worth spending a power point on. If everybody had this power without needing to spend any points on it, we still would not use it.

If we had a 10-second-charge, interrupt-on-damage, set-energy-and-equilibrium-to-zero rez power that could be used in combat, that would be far more useful than this filler. (Although it still wouldn't be very useful. Don't make one of those)

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I have an instant free self rez without a cooldown that can be used in combat. And it never cost me a power point.

It's called the "Recover" button.

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If we had a 10-second-charge, interrupt-on-damage, set-energy-and-equilibrium-to-zero rez power that could be used in combat, that would be far more useful than this filler. (Although it still wouldn't be very useful. Don't make one of those)

That's what everyone thought the Sorcery one was supposed to be.

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"Salvation - Redemption can now resurrect up to 5 targets within 25 feet of you. Healing received is divided amongst targets resurrected."

So you can now raise more people than you can group with? I suppose, as this is an 'out of combat only' power; that the res'r can sit outside a group fighting and raise them all in the event of a wipe.... ya.

And I, too, am generally interested in the new power set. This power seems a bit off, however.

This. If I may make a recommendation for resurrection powers? Make them a buff with a relatively long duration, but not so long that the caster can keep more than two people in it. When the buffed character dies, they can choose to resurrect on the spot, or at the nearest spawn point.

Alternately, the caster creates a NEW spawn point for the target, where the caster is standing.

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Hmm how about it instead of standing someone up(impractical given current mechanics)you use it on a recently defeated teammate to return a star to them? All other things apply out of combat, advantage hits entire team and so on. Probably have to put a couple minute cooldown on it to keep it from being spammable.

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For when the run back is too long. Oh, wait...

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Hmm how about it instead of standing someone up(impractical given current mechanics)you use it on a recently defeated teammate to return a star to them? All other things apply out of combat, advantage hits entire team and so on.

I don't see why anyone would waste a skill point on that, either. Kill a handful of mobs, and voila. Your star is back.

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I must agree that out-of-combat rezzes are not an attractive way to spend power points.

As a mostly support character, I had the arcane rez during levels 35-36 until one day I realized I didn't ever use it, and chose to respec out of it.

A good reason to use rezzes needs to exist before players will pick this kind of powers. :(


[edit:]
The celestial powerset still looks very interesting, and I like the idea of the heal/harm versatile powers and the emergency martyr-heal where you take another's wounds unto yourself.

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Please devs allow for these resurrection abilities to be used in combat. Just tweak them so they can't be used in PvP and everything will be fine. Healers need a way to resurrect their teammates while in combat. It's very...ill adviced to have a resurrect that can't be used in combat. Especially since people can just revive and quickly get back into the fight within a short amount of time.

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Based on game the game mechanics seem to work so far, I see this is mostly useless - just like the other rez-other powers. The advantage should let it work in combat, at the least.

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I'm not sure any rez power is all that useful. People typically just release and travel back to where the rest of the team is. Travel time is not all that inconvenient as there's usually a nearby rez point (even if it's at the beginning of an instanced mission) and we've all got travel powers.

Perhaps all the rezzes in the game should be tweaked to operate more like Circle of Radiant Glory - buffs that instantly bring a hero back at 100% health upon defeat. Stick a fair-sized timer and/or large energy requirements on them to stop it from being an easy immortality button.

Alternately, give us some incentive to sit around and wait to be rezzed. A substantial buff, for example. Basically, the same thinking that goes behind Renewal (the supernatural self-rez) should be applied to any rez: why not just hit release?

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I have an instant free self rez without a cooldown that can be used in combat. And it never cost me a power point.

It's called the "Recover" button.

Quoted for truthery. This power is weaker than what every player already has available from level 1.

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Personnaly, i don't like this power tree very much, because it remind me too much of healers in medieval fantasy games.

Secondly, could the dev update the power set in the web page to inclued power trees of other super power that are missing like Archery and Munition.

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I would prefer in-combat rezz, too. For myself, I use rebirth followed by circle of primal dominion to handle the damage (CoPD with regenerate works very fine for this - normally i didn't notice the damage at all). But in the moment i couldn't see a rezz-skill i would use for other groupmembers, even for my support-char. I hope this will change someday^^

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Just want to step in for a second and thank you for your initial feedback on the power. I'm passing it up the line to make sure it gets seen.

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Not a single person that has posted thus far is keen on the idea of an out-of-combat rez. Please take note, Cryptic team. Rezzing in this game is pretty pointless based on the structure of most of the content.

- There is always a respawn point relatively nearby if you're questing outside.
- If you're questing inside, you might get set back a floor.. maybe.

The only place I've played so far where I felt that a rez would've saved my team time was in Dr. Destroyer's Factory. The run back from the entrance is a serious PITA. But that is one instance out of all of the game's content I've seen (up to level 31-ish). Given that, rezzes (let alone out-of-combat ones) are a joke.

You guys made the game. You made the death penalty what it is... which isn't much. So death isn't feared pretty much at all in this game. It'd be tough to change it though without seriously ticking off a lot of the community. Especially considering how utterly difficult the game seems to be for some people. Or at least the vocal minority I've seen in the forums.

So how about instead of making death worse in the game, you just quit foolin' around with these rez powers and make them into something worthwhile? A combat-rez & buff sort of thing, like Mutation from CoX, would be an example. Having a "plus side" to dying would at least entice somebody to pick these powers up.

On a side note: Celestial is pretty wicked (yes, I'm from New England) so far. But rezzes are not remotely needed in this game. MAYBE.. MAYBE in-combat ones. But there is zero reason for out-of-combat rezzing whatsoever.

EDIT: Oh, thanks for the acknowledgement, Daeke. Good stuff. Keep up the awesomeness.

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Just want to step in for a second and thank you for your initial feedback on the power. I'm passing it up the line to make sure it gets seen.

Yayness :) Here's hoping all the rezzes get looked at.

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this power set has great healing for "others" how about showing/telling us how this powerset heals themselves?

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http://forums.champions-online.com/showpost.php?p=1217276&postcount=91

In the above link I have outlined the futility of having a res work only inside combat. Daeke please look at this, too, since Redemption works exactly like Divine Renewal but on a Click (Wouldn't that mean Divine Renewal being maintain makes it overshadowed by Redemption and useless even if they are both made to work in combat?). I really hope I'm not to late in showing this link, since this is very relevant to fixing Redemption, which would be the first Underperforming Power in Celestial, even before the set was actually made playable. That's pretty sad. :(

Short version:
Only way to make an out of combat res viable is either if you let players exit combat separately (If all four things in that link are true, combat ends) or allow these two skills to be used regardless combat status (AKA both in combat and out of combat)

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So when are these powers hitting the test shard? I want to see some numbers. Mostly because I have a hero concept where he is a conduit for lifeforce energy and I was wondering if I should use my retcon now and get Force/Mind powers or save it for Bloodmoon and pick up this stuff.

The modular heal/hurt dynamic seems interesting, but I am wondering exactly how much the power pays for being split up that way. This set seems like it might be setting itself up with a bit too much healing.

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The biggest irony with this power is that with the way healing agro is messed up, the healer is always the first one to die anyway...

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A somewhat obvious advantage of in-combat rez over rez/release is that the in-combat rez shouldn't cause a loss of stars on the characters affected. Not a huge thing, but in a long fight every advantage helps.

I would also think that after rezzing, the Celestial player would probably be on a timer before they could regain energy. Bringing a team back from the brink shouldn't be easy-mode, but that's just my Point of View.

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Filler FTL.

Don't get me wrong, I've already decided that I like this game enough to keep going for a while... but still, come on! There are a million more creative ways to do this. Why not make this some kind of team-play mechanic.

Someone mentioned the ability to set a closer respawn point. Why not?

Why not a buff that can be placed on a teammate so that they auto-resurrect when they die? It could have a recharge time of 5 minutes, and a duration of 60 seconds. You place it on someone when they might die (the tank, for instance) ... that would at least be a teamplay mechanic.

Anyway, my point is, where is the creativity?

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I almost feel bad for them on this one lol.

Don't get use Wrong, Celestial seems cool, just the mechanics of this game make an out of combat only res pretty useless. In-combat useable would at least have SOME use, but not out of combat.

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Why not a buff that can be placed on a teammate so that they auto-resurrect when they die? It could have a recharge time of 5 minutes, and a duration of 60 seconds. You place it on someone when they might die (the tank, for instance) ... that would at least be a teamplay mechanic.A skill like this should last the same amount of time as it's cooldown, unless you die before the cooldown, in which case that's your fault. But I mean if you don't die for 5 minutes, the buff should expire and the skill comes off cooldown and becomes usable at the same time.

Not that I think they'll have it but I like the idea.

Also Daeke you still haven't answered my inquiries from before.

There are no skills that are a pure heal, and if the skills that can jump to others can't jump back to you as a possible jump target, there would be no way to heal yourself at all. Kinda ironic in a combat healer set like this, where you can't heal yourself in combat. Or out of it for that matter. So can these skills jump to yourself?

And in general since all Celestial skills (Barring Redemption which is useless even before it rolls out) have a heal mechanism, would they be self targetable (Autotarget) to use yourself as a target when your health is not full out of combat?

Example: I just came out of combat with half health and there are some mobs in range of a skill, or I want to heal myself in combat before I die. Would I have priority healing over monsters being attacked while using any Celestial skill so it can heal me instead of attacking even if I have a hostile targeted? Can any of these be used out of combat (Even when a mob is in range) as a self targetable heal?

Because as I said, the set looks fun in parties, but what about when using it solo? Seems like in both situations the only one not being healed is the user of these skills.

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I have to echo the sentiments of out of combat only rez being highly unattractive. I too, would not spend a power point on this. The rest of the set looks absolutely awesome =) A suggestion to make the power more desireable:

First, let it be used in combat. Second, give it a secondary effect, like a temporary resistance buff or damage buff to the resurrected person. Third, give it a cooldown to compensate for balance.

tl;dr: make it a targeted rebirth usable in-combat and it will look more attractive and be more useful.

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I'd rather see Automatic Rez's off Duels than an ability that Rez's.

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i can think of only one reason i would take that power in a build........and its not a very good reason.

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Aelya not too long cooldown, right? I'd say maybe 30 sec tops, but that might be a little too much.

minyc, just so you're not a support without the iconic res? Only thing I can think of, really.

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Aelya not too long cooldown, right? I'd say maybe 30 sec tops, but that might be a little too much.

minyc, just so you're not a support without the iconic res? Only thing I can think of, really.

Not too long no. i'd be ok with 30 seconds.

If I were to guess, minyc would take the power for the sole purpose of getting further (and faster) access into the sets higher tier powers.

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Please make the skill usable in combat. To make it fair for pvp just make the range be really short (basically melee) and have the ability be interrupted while casting if anybody hits you. Hell, you can even add a long cooldown (like 30-60 seconds).

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Not too long no. i'd be ok with 30 seconds.

If I were to guess, minyc would take the power for the sole purpose of getting further (and faster) access into the sets higher tier powers.Yea it's not that bad until people start dropping and it needs to be used repeatedly, and then in that case I guess the advantage might come in handy.

Meh, yea, that would make sense, but there doesn't seem to be a shortage of powers.

Ares this is purely a PVE ability, since people would not know or care you have the skill in PVP and would res before you get to them. Also making it interrupt on hit makes it as worthless as Empathic Healing, and negates the point of a combat healer if it still can't res in combat while being hit. A melee range makes the AOE res advantage worthless, and unusable at all since people don't all die in a pile. So um, sorry but I have to disagree on almost everything.

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:confused: Out-of-combat rez's are 99.99% useless in this game. Seriously, what does it take to fly/run back from a rez spot? 10 seconds? 25 max?

C'mon Cryptic, at least give THIS power set a usable, in-combat rez. Or at least let there be an advantage to take that allows it to be in-combat. Make it a 3-point advantage. But, for Poseidon's sake, don't keep it at out-of-combat only!!!!

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3 points is a bit much just to make a skill function, like, at all. The skil basiclaly does not function at all pretty much, and I'm sorry but currently this skill is dead even before it made it ingame unless it's allowed to also work in combat.

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Just want to step in for a second and thank you for your initial feedback on the power. I'm passing it up the line to make sure it gets seen.


LOL I guess ya gotta do something... since the " LOOK HERE GUYS! SOMETHING UBAR IS COMIN!"

... and every response after that has been a

/facepalm

lol

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Alternately, the caster creates a NEW spawn point for the target, where the caster is standing.

This! Excellent idea! But like others are saying, in-combat is a must.

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I'm also struggling to find any purpose for this power. For that matter I can't actually see it ever being used.

When you're KOed the first thing you want to do is get back in the fight ASAP. Sitting around twiddling your thumbs hoping a) the fight doesn't go on too long and b) nobody else is KOed so that only one of you can get resurrected makes for bad tactics. The first thing any player is going to do is hit the restore button.

I think the idea of an in-combat rez that at the very least restores a player's lost star, or better still gives a temporary buff makes it worth considering.

(How about an advantage that gives a resurrectee 100% aggro and a 10 second total immunitity to damage - shouldn't be that big a challenge for a Celestial being, and would make dying a positively viable strategy.). ;)

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(How about an advantage that gives a resurrectee 100% aggro and a 10 second total immunitity to damage - shouldn't be that big a challenge for a Celestial being, and would make dying a positively viable strategy.). ;)

I can give a 100% guarantee that there will be no immunity to damage on a Rez. It opens a huge door to game breaking exploits.

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Just want to step in for a second and thank you for your initial feedback on the power. I'm passing it up the line to make sure it gets seen.

People have been saying this about the rezes (Divine Renewal is practically identical to this "new" power) since day one. Presumably this was done so people couldn't keep rezing everyone in PvP, but it makes the powers useless anywhere else. People are either taking the power and rarely, if never, using it - or people are skipping it altogether.

As people have continued to say, make powers like this and Divine Renewal simply be like the old description - it has a long charge time and has to be held for the entire charge. If an enemy hits/attacks you mid-charge, then it fails. A 30 second recharge time would be reasonable in the event (or after a person is rezed).

The way the power(s) is now, only in VERY rare circumstances would it come in handy. Like, if someone dies just as you're about to clear the last one or two enemies. But only then really.

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I can give a 100% guarantee that there will be no immunity to damage on a Rez. It opens a huge door to game breaking exploits.
Hence the winking smiley...

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You guys made the game. You made the death penalty what it is... which isn't much. So death isn't feared pretty much at all in this game. It'd be tough to change it though without seriously ticking off a lot of the community. Especially considering how utterly difficult the game seems to be for some people. Or at least the vocal minority I've seen in the forums.

I don't think using a rez spell prevents the 'death penalty' either. All it does is save you from running back.

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For when the run back is too long. Oh, wait...

Could be useful in Dr Destroyer's lab, where the biggest timesink is actually 'zoning' through all the damn doors.
But yea, overall a worthless power if you have to be out of combat.

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This power being made makes me wonder if anyone working on the game actually plays the game at all :confused: