Naming issues and guidelines

[Archived Post]

So, I have a question, and I am not trying to start a flame war, but its a bit incendiary.

Names that have religious reference.

So, here's my questions: is a toon named and look like a general accepted image of a diety from a religious practice (I will not use the term mythology as generally people do not understand its proper usage) banned? And what qualifies a relgious reference and bannable.

Case in point.

I saw several Voodoo Deity Name's used for character names, I have also seen Greek, Norse, Dao, Hindu, Islam, Christianity and Judiasm.

What is CO's stance on that?

For example, I am an actual Ifa practitioner, I would not use my Diety Name's as character names, yet I see other do. Part of me is offended, part of me understands that people like the sound of the name and what they believe the name symbolizes.

So, what's the proper call?

Esu Miwa

[Archived Post]

[...]
I saw several Voodoo Deity Name's used for character names, I have also seen Greek, Norse, Dao, Hindu, Islam, Christianity and Judiasm.

What is CO's stance on that?

[...]

So, what's the proper call?


There was a big discussion about this very issue a while back, which became very emotive and got locked.

In practise, though, what seems to happen is that if you have a name that contains the name of a deity, you're pretty much ok until someone reports you, at which point you will probably be instructed to change if it belongs to one of the "big" religions such as Islam, Christianity, Hindu et al.

Greek and Norse - and other "mythologies" - not so much, unless it conflicts with someone's intellectual property or copyright ownership.

[Archived Post]

My understanding is that use of names from dead religions (basically mythology) are tolerated (I have two myself) but that using a name from an actively practiced religion is not.

[Archived Post]

Which is funny, because the Norse pantheon is still actively worshipped, albeit by a tiny number of people.

Not sure about the Greek/Roman and Egyptian ones.

Sumerian is pretty safe, though.



-np

[Archived Post]

OKay, so my understanding then if its an actively practice religion, there is grounds for *polite* hey, please rename your char.

But what defines active, in Chicago, there is a Sumarian Temple that is not coptic christian or islamic. IN norway, there remain Lodges practicing thier native unconquered religions.

So, really, someone is worshiping some Deity some where... *eeP*

And thanks for keeping this flame free so far...

Esu Miwa

[Archived Post]

Er, there's an EXHIBIT on Sumerian artifacts at a museum in Chicago, but I can find no record of an actual Sumerian Temple there.

Would be kinda difficult seeing as their civilization was wiped out a few thousand years ago.



-np

[Archived Post]

Er, there's an EXHIBIT on Sumerian artifacts at a museum in Chicago, but I can find no record of an actual Sumerian Temple there.

Would be kinda difficult seeing as their civilization was wiped out a few thousand years ago.



-np

Well, besides the fact that your name clearly indicates that you are the type to start a flame war.

So, this is the only answer you will get: the internet doesnt have every piece of information in existance.

And your comment is off topic.

[Archived Post]

:DSo, I have a question, and I am not trying to start a flame war, but its a bit incendiary.

Names that have religious reference.

So, here's my questions: is a toon named and look like a general accepted image of a diety from a religious practice (I will not use the term mythology as generally people do not understand its proper usage) banned? And what qualifies a relgious reference and bannable.

Case in point.

I saw several Voodoo Deity Name's used for character names, I have also seen Greek, Norse, Dao, Hindu, Islam, Christianity and Judiasm.

What is CO's stance on that?

For example, I am an actual Ifa practitioner, I would not use my Diety Name's as character names, yet I see other do. Part of me is offended, part of me understands that people like the sound of the name and what they believe the name symbolizes.

So, what's the proper call?

Esu Miwa

Best guideline I can give you is that if the average person on the street would think of it as religious, it's probably a no no. If the average person would think "Hey, dead religion" or "Hey, I saw that in aplay/video game/fantasy novel/etc" even if it's not, it's probably okay unless someone reports you (but thne, it'd probably be minor). And even in the first case, if it's something that usually gets highly fictionalized liked most depictions of say... Voodoo or Shiva, then generally, that's probably going to get a pass unless it's somehow offensive above and beyond merely religious iconery.

Outside of that, basically the 'stance' is that Cryptic doesn't want to offend anyone - if someone complains, they'll probably err on the side of caution if they hear enough about it.

If you want something official though... ask a GM / bug yourself and ask specifically if a name you have in mind is okay. If it's someone else, bug them - a GM will decide whether or not it's okay.

[Archived Post]

By and large, it has been a thoughtful and civil thread.

My question is whether there's any possible reason for giving a character a name out of a "popular" religion aside from trying to be offensive? One of the joys of CO for me has been that a high percentage of characters seem to be genuine attempts to create superhero-ish, or at least adventure-ish, characters. There's been relatively little of the "hip", cynical, self-referential naming that shows up so often in, say, ******** these days. Mostly, to at least some extent, people just want to play superheroes, and that's the way I like it.

So my assumption on encountering, for example, one of the characters that is a parody of Jesus, would be that the player wants to be offensive, which is not behavior I want to see rewarded. Because it's rude, not because it's profane.

Please note that I'm fine with such things in context; Neal Adams' "Son O' God" character for the National Lampoon and Gaiman and Pratchett's novel Good Omens are profane and hilarious. But I don't regard CO as a suitable venue for such material; it lacks precision. While I'll concede it's possible that someone is trying to make a worthwhile social comment with such a character, odds are, they're just being a jerk.

[Archived Post]

Well, besides the fact that your name clearly indicates that you are the type to start a flame war.

So, this is the only answer you will get: the internet doesnt have every piece of information in existance.

And your comment is off topic.

Uh, how am I flaming? I was being completely civil. I don't understand the snarkiness.

We're talking about the appropriateness of various real world religions for use in game.

How is talking about the Sumerian pantheon off-topic?

My point stands. Ancient Sumer died several thousand years ago. The only thing we have left of their civilization is scraps of clay tablets and some pottery and statues and such. Sumerian architecture is all but gone, as it was clay and mud based. Their various religions likewise vanished into history. That should mean they are completely safe to use in this game.

If someone's made a Sumerian Temple, I'd love to hear about it, I'm kinda an ancient history geek. I knew about the museum exhibit, but have not heard of an actual temple.

I cannot imagine it is any sort of continuation of the original worship, though. It'd have to be something restarted recently, by modern folks. The religion simply hasn't been active since the fall of Sumer.

Norse deities are different - those have a recorded line of worshippers from ancient times to the modern day.

Also, my screen name comes from waaay back in the pre-beta boards for City of Heroes, like six years ago. There were silly arguments that kept popping up on what was better, Ninjas or Pirates. So I changed my name to NinjaPirate to be goofy, and it's stuck ever since.



-np

[Archived Post]

Simple answer: No, you don't get to be offended. Dunno why people think religions are sacrosanct. I get offended when I see people playing "ninjas" without the first clue about what ninjas (or samurais, or most of the Eastern martial-arts oriented archetypes) actually were, and butcher the concept. Do I get to prevent people from making ninjas? No, I get to laugh at them, but that's it.

Personally, I find mythology references make the best characters, the angels of Christian myth can be really interesting concepts (I mean actually looking into the different orders of angels, ie Seraphim, Elohim, etc., not just a generic angel), and Greek gods are always good fun. I've heard of a couple Super Jesus', which amuse me, but I can't really see how a pacifist carpenter can be turned into a particularly interesting superhero...

[Archived Post]

Simple answer: No, you don't get to be offended. Dunno why people think religions are sacrosanct. I get offended when I see people playing "ninjas" without the first clue about what ninjas (or samurais, or most of the Eastern martial-arts oriented archetypes) actually were, and butcher the concept. Do I get to prevent people from making ninjas? No, I get to laugh at them, but that's it.

Personally, I find mythology references make the best characters, the angels of Christian myth can be really interesting concepts (I mean actually looking into the different orders of angels, ie Seraphim, Elohim, etc., not just a generic angel), and Greek gods are always good fun. I've heard of a couple Super Jesus', which amuse me, but I can't really see how a pacifist carpenter can be turned into a particularly interesting superhero...

I like your reasoned approach and you correct usage of the word mythology.

But the crux is I have to watch people making fun of my religion, but I cannot make fun of thiers. But , I suppose this falls under the larger population dominating the lesser.

I guess what I would really like to see is fairness in the application of the name-bat .

I think I will take your approach Mr. Funsocks and just laugh...and get back to killing my nemesis. WHo knows maybe One of the Gods will answer the fervent prayer of a player!

Oh and bakamatt and Sagg - also, nice approach and arguements/

Ninja-pirate: you proved my point. nuff siad.


Thanks all!

(Hmm drunken ELohim)

Esu Miwa

[Archived Post]

I still don't get your point. I am attempting to be completely serious.

At no point did I level an insult, demean anyone, or even try to allude to anything negative.

I mentioned Sumerian as a valid choice since as far, as I knew, it wasn't an active religion at all.

If I'm wrong about that, I apologize and really would would like edification.

In my defense, if it's not common knowledge or something I can look up, can I really be blamed for not knowing?

I felt it was ironic that Norse was allowed, since apparently Cryptic was banning use of active religious figures. I know the Norse pantheon is actively worshiped, even if it isn't by a particularly huge group.

I clearly seem to have done something wrong in your eyes, but I honestly haven't the foggiest notion of what it might have been.


-np

[Archived Post]

N-P, he's upset because he made a ******** remark on the temple to seem intelligent but you effed it all up with logic.

gg noobie boobie

[Archived Post]

There is not a set in stone black and white law with regards to the names. There are guidelines that beyond those guidelines are up to the GMs/Staff as to whether or not it is inappropriate due to any number of reasons. The guidelines are stated in the naming portion of the ToS. Whether some people are getting by is not relevant past your reporting them if you feel it is not appropriate or a GM/Staffer spotting it otherwise(rare). Enforcement of guidelines and rules on here are reactive not proactive.

In some ways, yes, the game deceptively gives you the impression its ok to make your favorite religious figure, a copy righted comic/movie/book character, or anything else that would be deemed not appropriate.

But the decision for you to take that step and do so is then where you run the risk of having yourself penalized for it.

If you're creative and careful with your toon, you wont be. If you're stupid, naive, or trying to be an arse, you'll be popped.

Debate over sumerian temples, predynastic egypt hawk clan avatars, snake handler or spaghetti monster cults, or some hokey 10,000 year old jedi religion being adhered to in Birmingham, England on every other thursday of the month as long as it not raining, or falling on a the same holiday as the Judean People's Liberation Front's is, for all intent and purpose, a cup of tepid tea.

[Archived Post]

So, I have a question, and I am not trying to start a flame war, but its a bit incendiary.

Names that have religious reference.

So, here's my questions: is a toon named and look like a general accepted image of a diety from a religious practice (I will not use the term mythology as generally people do not understand its proper usage) banned? And what qualifies a relgious reference and bannable.

Case in point.

I saw several Voodoo Deity Name's used for character names, I have also seen Greek, Norse, Dao, Hindu, Islam, Christianity and Judiasm.

What is CO's stance on that?

For example, I am an actual Ifa practitioner, I would not use my Diety Name's as character names, yet I see other do. Part of me is offended, part of me understands that people like the sound of the name and what they believe the name symbolizes.

So, what's the proper call?

Esu Miwa

You're never going to get a clear explanation. I'd simply just laugh it off, and let those players be. If they are insulting and rude with respects to the religion, I'd report them.

You got to remember that so many religions/mythologies aren't well known. I have never heard of Ifa until today.

I have a character based off the deity, Nike.

[Archived Post]

but I can't really see how a pacifist carpenter can be turned into a particularly interesting superhero...

Minor aside: Terminator 2. No, not Jesus. But if you think about it, T2 was an action movie where the protagonist is trying to save the world without killing anyone. In fact, the only person the heroes even kill directly or indirectly does it by self-sacrifice.

Though to be fair, in context of a story that can be tailored to such things, it's probably alot easier to make it interesting. I suppose one could make, perhaps, a superhero that only used damaging CC effects instead of overtly offensive powers.

You're never going to get a clear explanation. I'd simply just laugh it off, and let those players be. If they are insulting and rude with respects to the religion, I'd report them.

You got to remember that so many religions/mythologies aren't well known. I have never heard of Ifa until today.

I have a character based off the deity, Nike.

Indeed. If a player is simply uninformed, I wouldn't sweat it. If they seem like a reasonable person, you could even try PMing them and giving them some accurate information or say "Nice bio, I practice X myself." If you feel they're just being offensive, report them and be specific why. Cryptic, again, isn't trying to pick on anyone but they can't all have degrees in theology. :)

[Archived Post]

Minor aside: Terminator 2. No, not Jesus. But if you think about it, T2 was an action movie where the protagonist is trying to save the world without killing any one. In fact, the only person the heroes even kill directly or indirectly does it by self-sacrifice.

Though to be fair, in context of a story that can be tailored to such things, it's probably alot easier to make it interesting. I suppose one could make, perhaps, a superhero that only used damaging CC effects instead of overtly offensive powers.

Yeah, but he was still a superpowerful robot with guns. He just made sure he didn't kill anyone with them, only scare them off ;) He had abilities, Jesus can... walk on water and turn water into wine. I can't imagine many situations calling for that...

And as to they can make fun of your religion, you can't make fun of theirs: Why can't you? I make fun of peoples' religion all the time, especially the "big" ones. Because they're silly.

[Archived Post]

well if you think about it back then there was more then one jesus. it was the fact that he was the "christ" that made him special and if you know many um Mexicans they do use that name. just a thouhgt.

[Archived Post]

OP I think your dismissing NinjaPirate as a troll was hasty and probably rude. You were totally wrong about Sumeria and Norse mythology and as such your example was inaccurate and crappy.

Expect to be corrected when you post information that is patly wrong. This is a discussion forum, not a you-get-to-be-a-conversation-tyrant soapbox. You can disagree with people all you like, but pejorative labeling (in this case, based primarily on a person's name, from what I can tell,) sucks.

OP 2/10 rating for bad form.

:mad:

[Archived Post]

Ahh well here come the trolls, the flame-queens, the rating monster etc. Atleast there were a few interesting and informative posts on cryptics possible interpretations of policy.

Its sad that with the incedible amout of customization, most people are plagued with non existent imaginations and need to steal from else where.

As to the rest trying so desperately to bait me into something - the thread was not about proving the existence of any religion. Had you actually read my original post, it was about the abuse of religious icons. But you didn't, which isn't surprising, since its obvious in your wording you were trying to bait: "I looked it up on the internet and it wasn't there. So it can't exist. Its dead because i just said so and teh internet said so (and I am too ****ing stupif to think on my own so I need the internet to think for me" bah, the internet isn't god, not every one in the planet is connected or even wants to be, and the Summarian temple is in a very non descript building, but if you know the area or the culture,you know exactly where it is at.

So spare me your cries of im an innocvent flamer, troll, score queen, or I know what logic is and you don;t arguements, its discussio thread I will say what i want. <shakes head>

<rolls eyes>

I won't be back to this thread after this point. its detiorated to crap - which i expected to happe at some point.

Adieu.

[Archived Post]

Stop being so sanctimonious, you're acting more like a little prat the longer this thread goes on.

[Archived Post]

Well, I use the internet when I don't know about something, but that's because it's convenient.

I didn't actually have to look up the stuff about Sumer, though, because I'd done research on the subject earlier, when I was writing a setting for a roleplaying campaign. (I borrowed Enki and Asherah for that campaign's deities, among others)

Which is why I brought it up to begin with.

I did go look in my paper-based encyclopedia for that, but there wasn't any mention of modern day practice of Sumerian religion. I suppose I could run down to my local library, but that's a bit more trouble than I can be bothered with.

I will say that if you make an assertion, like "there is a modern day actual Sumerian Temple in Chicago", you really should back it up with some citation or proof. You CANNOT just expect people to go on just your word, especially since there's no way to actually confirm this without difficulty.

You did in fact ask, "And what qualifies a relgious reference and bannable." (sic)

I mentioned a 'dead' religion, because it was likely one that ISN'T bannable. Not to flame, but as an honest attempt at contributing to the conversation.

Believe me, if I was attempting to flame and insult, it would be clear and unmistakable. I do not do 'subtle' when making fun of someone or mocking them.

I have been nothing but courteous, polite, and civil so far in this thread, and have been met with nothing but namecalling and insinuations. And yet when I asked what specifically I did 'wrong', the question is completely ignored.

It appears that you are self-determined to be insulted even when most of the posts here haven't been trying to be insulting at all. That is your choice, but acting petulant won't help your case any.

Having a discussion is about give and take. You cannot just pick the responses you like and attack and belittle the others. Topics will drift a bit during the process, but this is natural.


-np

[Archived Post]

:D

Best guideline I can give you is that if the average person on the street would think of it as religious, it's probably a no no. If the average person would think "Hey, dead religion" or "Hey, I saw that in aplay/video game/fantasy novel/etc" even if it's not, it's probably okay unless someone reports you (but thne, it'd probably be minor). And even in the first case, if it's something that usually gets highly fictionalized liked most depictions of say... Voodoo or Shiva, then generally, that's probably going to get a pass unless it's somehow offensive above and beyond merely religious iconery.

Outside of that, basically the 'stance' is that Cryptic doesn't want to offend anyone - if someone complains, they'll probably err on the side of caution if they hear enough about it.

If you want something official though... ask a GM / bug yourself and ask specifically if a name you have in mind is okay. If it's someone else, bug them - a GM will decide whether or not it's okay.

I would like to say that of your post that last line is the best part of your post. I would like to add only one thing to it though. I go by a simple rule myself. I call it "When in doubt leave it out". Meaning if I have doubt about a name being okay I will change it if possible. Also if I have any doubts about a name before using it I will never use it period.

Heck in their first project CoX I had chosen my account name as something that could've been seen as a no no so I sent an email to support. I told them about my concern that my account name may be in violation of the naming policy. About two weeks later I got a reply that said the account name is okay.

[Archived Post]

So, what's the proper call?

QR

"If you have to ask, then it's not allowed" is always a good rule of thumb.

[Archived Post]

Ahh well here come the trolls, the flame-queens, the rating monster etc. Atleast there were a few interesting and informative posts on cryptics possible interpretations of policy.

Its sad that with the incedible amout of customization, most people are plagued with non existent imaginations and need to steal from else where.

As to the rest trying so desperately to bait me into something - the thread was not about proving the existence of any religion. Had you actually read my original post, it was about the abuse of religious icons. But you didn't, which isn't surprising, since its obvious in your wording you were trying to bait: "I looked it up on the internet and it wasn't there. So it can't exist. Its dead because i just said so and teh internet said so (and I am too ****ing stupif to think on my own so I need the internet to think for me" bah, the internet isn't god, not every one in the planet is connected or even wants to be, and the Summarian temple is in a very non descript building, but if you know the area or the culture,you know exactly where it is at.

So spare me your cries of im an innocvent flamer, troll, score queen, or I know what logic is and you don;t arguements, its discussio thread I will say what i want. <shakes head>

<rolls eyes>

I won't be back to this thread after this point. its detiorated to crap - which i expected to happe at some point.

Adieu.



look at how stupid you are

[Archived Post]

look at how stupid you are

That.

That was a flame.

See the difference?

Orbital Butt, thank you for the example!

And yes, that was me being slightly sarcastic and mocking.

I get a little cranky when getting insulted when I was trying to help.



-np

[Archived Post]

Halloween is coming up. I'll be sitting on my porch calling the police every time I see a costume that offends me. Who's with me?

?

No one?

Then why would anyone **** and moan about a DIGITAL costume offending you?

[Archived Post]

What is LFA?

I consider myself reasonably worldly in the study of religion and mythology, but have never come across this term.

[Archived Post]

IFA, not LFA.

It is as far as I can tell a religion originating in mid-Africa.

I don't know too much else since I only heard of it today in this thread.




-np

[Archived Post]

Naming policies should not even exist. All they are there for is the "Woe is me, I'm so offended by everything" crowd to take out their frustrations on people who don't play the way they do. The only thing that should even be considered as off limits is profanities, and even that's caving to much to whiners. The types of people who alert the teacher to the fact that she didn't collect last nights homework as everyone is on the way out the door are who naming policies are there to serve.

I'd rather see something funny and profane than the truckloads of generic "Dark <Insert Animal Name", or some lame name you got from a thesaurus. Or even worse, the names people think are clever when we all know you just typed "Intelligent" into the thesaurus and picked the word that you thought would make you sound he smartest.

[Archived Post]

Only reason I like name policies is that it forces people to occasionally do something new and different. Except it doesn't quash the biggest generic, boring offenders, like you mentioned.

I don't just find the thesaurus though, I go hunting through mythology and other language's thesaurus' first!

My most generic name (aside from poor Force Knight) is probably "Juris Carnifex", which is just "Judge Executioner" (vaguely) in latin...

[Archived Post]

Sumerian is pretty safe, though.

-np

Hey! You leave my people alone!

*thinks*

No wait, i was thinking of the carthaginians.

In any case and on topic;

Religion should be as open as any other media, if you can't take it ingood humor that jesus is running around with a minigun and a spirit wolf called Jim, you shouldn't be playing a superhero game.

[Archived Post]

The types of people who alert the teacher to the fact that she didn't collect last nights homework as everyone is on the way out the door are who naming policies are there to serve.

So the smart people who realise how valuable education is, those people?

[Archived Post]

So the smart people who realise how valuable education is, those people?
I was thinking, more like the tolerant people, who realise that perhaps some of their classmates who didn't do the homework might take advantage of the reprieve - those people. ;)

[Archived Post]

Naming policies should not even exist. All they are there for is the "Woe is me, I'm so offended by everything" crowd to take out their frustrations on people who don't play the way they do. The only thing that should even be considered as off limits is profanities, and even that's caving to much to whiners. The types of people who alert the teacher to the fact that she didn't collect last nights homework as everyone is on the way out the door are who naming policies are there to serve.

I'd rather see something funny and profane than the truckloads of generic "Dark <Insert Animal Name", or some lame name you got from a thesaurus. Or even worse, the names people think are clever when we all know you just typed "Intelligent" into the thesaurus and picked the word that you thought would make you sound he smartest.

The namiing policy is there for more than just protecting those that would be insulted by a name. IMHO that is a good thing. If you do not care if you are insulting to others when you name a character and in chat fine. We will see just how long you are able to play doing that. FYI the naming policy is also there to protect Cryptic from trademark infringement lawsuit. That policy along with their policing efforts will keep that to a minimum.

[Archived Post]

Yeah, but he was still a superpowerful robot with guns. He just made sure he didn't kill anyone with them, only scare them off ;) He had abilities, Jesus can... walk on water and turn water into wine. I can't imagine many situations calling for that...

And as to they can make fun of your religion, you can't make fun of theirs: Why can't you? I make fun of peoples' religion all the time, especially the "big" ones. Because they're silly.

Is it wrong that i immediately thought of a way to use the ability to turn water into wine offensively?

(the human body being largely made up of water im pretty sure it suddenly turning into wine is gonna cause "complications" )

[Archived Post]

I always think the world would be a much better place if people stopped treating religion like it should never be mocked or questioned.

[Archived Post]

Just been reading about IFA and I'm wondering what name was being used to make fun of your religion? the reason i ask is its not exactly the easiest religion to just come across and i would imagine you would have to either go looking for it either intentionally or looking for the names of deity and coming across the name of a IFA deity in relation to a search eg god of war names

[Archived Post]

Which is funny, because the Norse pantheon is still actively worshipped, albeit by a tiny number of people.

Until they start impaling people off the back of oxen in Uppsala again, I have my doubts about their devotion. They can *say* they actively worship, but...

[Archived Post]

Today is not the day for discussing tepid tea.

[Archived Post]

I've gone into my own head and removed my Common Sense.

Now I have piping hot Tea. I also have No Tea.

I'm quite content with this.

A robot keeps trying to stick a dangly bit off a device into my Tea, however. I don't know what's up with that.



-np

[Archived Post]

I always think the world would be a much better place if people stopped treating religion like it should never be mocked or questioned.

You mean people *don't* mock and question religion where you live? You poor sod :p

[Archived Post]

You mean people *don't* mock and question religion where you live? You poor sod :p

Not enough in the US, not enough... The UK has much better credentials about that!

[Archived Post]

I was expecting a "I can say anything I want" post at some point in this thread. But it's not true. Every country places legal constraints on what people can say within its borders.

Assuming a legal structure comparable to that of the U.S., for example, there are a vast list of things you can't say, at least without legal consequences.

You can't say "fire!" in a crowded theater if there's no fire, to trot out a tired example. In general, you can't say things that constitute creating a nuisance or a danger.

You can't libel people.

You can't describe the inner workings of a B-1 bomber.

You can't violate professional-client privilege.

You can't disregard the acceptance of a non-disclosure agreement.

Etc., etc.

And these are simple, unambiguous examples that don't even consider such vague, slippery actions as "hate speech". Which you can't do either, even if the concept is as hard to define as "pornography".

So there's simply no validity to the notion that anyone is allowed to say anything they want.

Then, there's the question of what someone shouldn't say. To claim, for example, that religious mockery is always legitimate in any context just because you're so much smarter than all the boobs who believe in God is purely specious. In many contexts, such behavior is simply rude.

CO isn't precisely one of those contexts; however it is one where there is an implicit default for character names. This default isn't social commentary, and it isn't being profane because the anonymity of the Web lets you get away with it, it's having a name that could be encountered without surprise in a current Marvel or DC superhero comic. To violate that default without a compelling reason, which I would define as a clear and ingenious character concept, is also rude.

And mocking religion is shooting fish in a barrel. If you want to show people how clever you are, pick a clever way.

[Archived Post]

IAnd mocking religion is shooting fish in a barrel. If you want to show people how clever you are, pick a clever way.

I only do it when they come to *my* door or stop me in the street. Asking the ones with a mega-phone for a hug is great, too - they always run away.

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I only do it when they come to *my* door or stop me in the street. Asking the ones with a mega-phone for a hug is great, too - they always run away.

This man speaks wisely.

Regarding in-game characters based upon religous or mythological figures, my personal take on it is that your odds of having a name change forced upon you are greater when you take something from a major religion. Odds diminish proportionately with the number of followers of said religion.

Obviously, caricatures of religious figures are far more likely to be frowned upon than a respectful and educated portrayal. IMO, practitioners of obscure religions should be pleased to encounter the latter.

Regarding the OP's stance, I detect a certain martyr complex which is sometimes evidenced in those who identify themselves as part of a minority, be it religious, ethnic, physical disability, etc. This martyr complex makes these people very quick to take offense, and indeed, they tend to look for something to be offended about, even when all other involved parties are trying to figure out what is going on.

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First of all, I am not affiliated with any religion. Secondly, if you practice any given religion, it's a good bet (depending on pesronal governing) that you may find yourself insulted at some point in your life. A beilief is, literally, a conviction; a stern opinion. That's all; plain and simply, an opinion. Every thinking person in this world has opinions.

What one beliefs, others do not. One many hold sacred; others laugh at, or make light of. I'm not suggesting it's a good thing to behave in a brashful manner attempting to offend others, though people will do this; it's inevitable. It will happen, time and time again. What matters, at the end of the day, is how you deal with it. This brings me to my third point.

No one can insult you. It is your choice to be insulted or not. No one can insult you any more than they can make you get on all fours and bark like a dog. You have complete control of yourself and your emotions.

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First of all, I am not affiliated with any religion. Secondly, if you practice any given religion, it's a good bet (depending on pesronal governing) that you may find yourself insulted at some point in your life. A beilief is, literally, a conviction; a stern opinion. That's all; plain and simply, an opinion. Every thinking person in this world has opinions.

What one beliefs, others do not. One many hold sacred; others laugh at, or make light of. I'm not suggesting it's a good thing to behave in a brashful manner attempting to offend others, though people will do this; it's inevitable. It will happen, time and time again. What matters, at the end of the day, is how you deal with it. This brings me to my third point.

No one can insult you. It is your choice to be insulted or not. No one can insult you any more than they can make you get on all fours and bark like a dog. You have complete control of yourself and your emotions.

Good point about conviction. Either stand by your convictions or don't take up your belief that is what it's meant about conviction. It is a test.

In any case as far as Religious names and Deities go. I think the reason why you can't use a religous figures name is to give the developers the right without warning to erase your name if for any reason it becomes offensive to any person or persons. It's not necessarily law. So if it don't bother someone it won't be an issue. however...

Lets say you take the most obvious name, Jesus, which i've seen many. This actually offends me personally, now I have the right to report it because I find it offensive and it goes againts policy. Cryptic is under obligation to do something about it.

Why? To protect their integerity in the case such a small issue becomes big. Religion is a major issue in this world and people are fighting wars because of it, I won't go into details just look at the news.

The PS3 game Little Big Planet had a song before release (Which I thought was badass even though I did'nt understand a word it was saying) had some sort of scriptures from a religous book. Problem was, it concerned a group of folks who complained and Sony quickly took the lyrics out of the song and only the music plays with some chanting. They did this because they felt it was better than trying to defend the right to have the song played to keep them from being protested and thus hurt the release of their game. The Religous name restrictions is no different on here.

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Good point about conviction. Either stand by your convictions or don't take up your belief that is what it's meant about conviction. It is a test.

In any case as far as Religious names and Deities go. I think the reason why you can't use a religous figures name is to give the developers the right without warning to erase your name if for any reason it becomes offensive to any person or persons. It's not necessarily law. So if it don't bother someone it won't be an issue. however...

Lets say you take the most obvious name, Jesus, which i've seen many. This actually offends me personally, now I have the right to report it because I find it offensive and it goes againts policy. Cryptic is under obligation to do something about it.

Why? To protect their integerity in the case such a small issue becomes big. Religion is a major issue in this world and people are fighting wars because of it, I won't go into details just look at the news.

The PS3 game Little Big Planet had a song before release (Which I thought was badass even though I did'nt understand a word it was saying) had some sort of scriptures from a religous book. Problem was, it concerned a group of folks who complained and Sony quickly took the lyrics out of the song and only the music plays with some chanting. They did this because they felt it was better than trying to defend the right to have the song played to keep them from being protested and thus hurt the release of their game. The Religous name restrictions is no different on here.

Although, practically, pointless to state as it will, no doubt, be clear by the end of this writing; my stand is entirely anti-censorship (legal properties; copyright, trademark, etc. aside).

I understand your point with regards to religious wars. I’m quite schooled in these matters though such discussions are not, entirely, appropriate on such a forum. I should say that all of these wars are one of the several reasons why I practice no religion.

I agree with your views, from a business standpoint, with regards to Cyrptic’s responses to complaints about these matters but only because this is where society has led us. Howbeit, I must also say that this saddens me as Cryptic should not have to resort to these types of measures. I’ll explain my reasoning.

First of all, we must look at human beings. This may sound funny but we are all, truly, like snowflakes. We are intellectually, emotionally, artistically, linguistically and semantically as unique as our own fingerprints. Our subtle differences, vastly, outnumber our surface similarities. A simple example of the levels of complexities:

I have a good friend who is a Christian. He has, on the dashboard of his car, the “infamous Buddy Christ” a statue novelty of Jesus from the controversial movie Dogma. I know of another person who is also a Christian and he takes offense to such things. Both follow the same religion but on very different levels. Both celebrate and worship in their own way. Is anyone wrong here? Of course not, though I suppose it’s debatable, depending on where you stand (anything, really is). This also leads me to believe that, at least, a handful of the people who have Jesus characters running around in the game probably believe in some form of Christianity.

The more you educate yourself with the workings of human mind (and overall nature), the more obvious it becomes that to take offense or insult by the opinions of others (opposing or not) is unsane (not insane; a huge difference).


The fact of the matter is that people should take more responsibility for themselves and stop placing it in the hands of others (in the case; a video game company). I, personally, take offense to nothing. I am insulted by nothing. I choose not to be because I have a clear understanding that we all have our own opinions. There is nothing personal if someone does not share your views, or makes light of something you take seriously.

The bottom line is;

If I practiced any given religion and I chose to take offense to personal differences then I think it wouldn’t be the best choice for me to engage in a social video game where I converse with thousands (if not a million or two) others where I am certain to find offense; especially a social game where personal creativity and expression is at it's heart.

People need to stop looking to others to make their world a better place and take personal responsibility by making the choices necessary to make their own world a better place.

One more thing. The wars on religion were all founded because someone, somewhere, chose to take offense to opposing views.

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Well, besides the fact that your name clearly indicates that you are the type to start a flame war.

So, this is the only answer you will get: the internet doesnt have every piece of information in existance.

And your comment is off topic.

I kept coming back to this thread to see if Esumiwa ever bothered to apologize for this dig at NP's name after being proven wrong, but I was disappointed. For all his (her?) strutting and posturing about "keeping the thread civil", the only person who really stands out to me as being completely disrespectful and derogatory is the topic creator himself. Ironic. So, since the OP hasn't shown the maturity to do so, I'll apologize to you on his behalf, NP. The attack was uncalled-for, and you were completely in the right.

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I kept coming back to this thread to see if Esumiwa ever bothered to apologize for this dig at NP's name after being proven wrong, but I was disappointed. For all his (her?) strutting and posturing about "keeping the thread civil", the only person who really stands out to me as being completely disrespectful and derogatory is the topic creator himself. Ironic. So, since the OP hasn't shown the maturity to do so, I'll apologize to you on his behalf, NP. The attack was uncalled-for, and you were completely in the right.

Of course I'm right. I'm always right.*

But thank you. :)


-np

*- even when I'm wrong. And yes, Esumiwa, this is me being slightly trollish now.

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Not enough in the US, not enough... The UK has much better credentials about that!

I am from the UK and saying cretin things in cretin areas could more than likely get you a beating.

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I am from the UK and saying cretin things in cretin areas could more than likely get you a beating.

True, but that's mostly in the socially-backwards, inbred villages, such as the one I live in :p