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Archived Post
10-07-2009, 12:41 PM
I totally expect to be ripped apart so go for it...

1) No incentive to group - there's no reason to group up while leveling. At end game you just group "for fun", while that's fine, there's nothing to achieve.

2) Same old quest grind - no alternative leveling paths for alts, gets stale the 3rd or 4th time. And you have to do EVERY single mission, every one to avoid the gaps.

3) PvP - yay arenas - How about some open world pvp flagged goodness. What about open world pvp objectives. If I wanted to grind scenarios/arena I would have stuck with WaR.

4) Open Frameworks - their design always leads to FOTM, they can never be balanced. Sure some people play concept, and thats fine, but most just use FOTM powers and there will be and endless nerf/buff cycle because of it.

5) Poor Documentation - both out of game and in game, Why put a bunch of effort into a hero only to find out things weren't working the way you thought they were due to buggy tooltips and descriptions.

6) Balancing - Every patch they fix things but they make other things worse. They knee jerked the launch by turning up the difficulty and so far have only attempted to slow everything down.

I completely expect people to reply with the standard, new MMO/potential/no nerfs, just bug fixes, etc... so go for it. I'm especially looking forward to the anal guy who quotes every point and addresses them individually, so make it good.

Archived Post
10-07-2009, 12:43 PM
Didn't already quit once?

Edit: Looking through your post history it would seem I'm wrong. My bad.

Archived Post
10-07-2009, 12:43 PM
we miss you, hell i miss you blah blah blah

i cant be bothered any more

Archived Post
10-07-2009, 12:45 PM
Valid points for quiting, I'm going to stick it out a bit longer see what goes down.

Archived Post
10-07-2009, 12:51 PM
Have I been completely locked in a bubble?

What game has alternate quest paths that I don't know about?

I see this mentioned a lot on here. All the games I have played had just one path outside class/race stuff that usually is just the beginning of the game.

Archived Post
10-07-2009, 12:52 PM
Didn't already quit once?

Edit: Looking through your post history it would seem I'm wrong. My bad.

No I just had my gripes here and there... but now I'm officially done. I tried to wait for BloodMoon, but I'd rather skill up two new professions in WoW. Yes I play WoW, so rip me on that one too ok?

Archived Post
10-07-2009, 12:54 PM
Have I been completely locked in a bubble?

What game has alternate quest paths that I don't know about?

I see this mentioned a lot on here. All the games I have played had just one path outside class/race stuff that usually is just the beginning of the game.

Well I hate to play the WoW card again, cause everyone here hates it. But you have two factions, each race (except for a couple) have different starting zones. There are also many times during the course of the game you can choose to level in one of two (or more) different places. Plus, there's actual dungeons throughout the process that require a team, and real teamwork.

Edit: I'd also like to add that EQ, AC, UO and others also offered this.

Archived Post
10-07-2009, 12:56 PM
Have I been completely locked in a bubble?

What game has alternate quest paths that I don't know about?

I see this mentioned a lot on here. All the games I have played had just one path outside class/race stuff that usually is just the beginning of the game.

Well other MMOs like WoW give you a bit more options, Questing is the best way to level but you can also do 5-mans or just kill mobs not the best exp but you can still make good XP, in CO it is quest or die, and most of the quests in WoW are not chains so playing with other players is not so rare

Archived Post
10-07-2009, 12:59 PM
Appearently you like WoW and wanted more of a traditional MMO experience. Thats well and good, and there are plenty of games for that. CO was a diversion from the norm, and since it's a diversion from the norm it's treading new waters. If you don't have the patience to enjoy it for what it is while it continues to get molded, then you're free to go play WoW and grind out your professions(I recommend JC and Enchanting).

By the way, you could have just not posted that you were done, and been done; but you're pretty much just coming off as a peeved troll who wants attention.

"I'm significant!" - exclaimed the speck of dust.

Archived Post
10-07-2009, 01:00 PM
Well, if you play WoW, then you know in that game there is no incentive to group, except if you want to complete some dungeon quests that pop up while leveling. Just like it is here in CO. WoW does have a much better system of quest sharing though.

As far as the open or world pvp, doesn't anyone read the game info on the main page? Or even the quest text you get from the Hero Games quest givers? Until the time comes when players in this game are not all on the same side, there isn't going to be any world pvp.

Documentation, yeah. Content? Yeah, but more stuff is being added, and the game has been out about a month. Not bad. As far as your comment that "most people" are playing FOTM builds, from my experiences you are totally wrong. Maybe in lower level PvP, but that's still a minority in this game. Most of the people I talk to while playing all have some very different builds, even while using a lot of the same powers. I like that.

Now, again I bring up the fact that you mentioned you play WoW. So do I, and I've been playing it for about four years now. And still with every patch Blizzard tries balancing and rebalancing. Your statement number 5 can be applied to that game just as consistently.

But hey, if the game isn't what you expect or you are not having fun, then by all means go play one that you enjoy. Have fun!

Archived Post
10-07-2009, 01:02 PM
You know I tried to play wow a year ago or more and once I hit 20 I had no idea what to do. It was pretty directionless on where stuff my level was. I can't say it's a terrible game based on my experience, I was having fun playing then kind of hit a wall on where to go.

I played EQ2 for 4 years. I got used to leveling by the same old quest lines there. Did every line imaginable that all lead to the same progression. So maybe that's why I don't mind the quests here.

Archived Post
10-07-2009, 01:02 PM
I totally expect to be ripped apart so go for it...

1) No incentive to group - there's no reason to group up while leveling. At end game you just group "for fun", while that's fine, there's nothing to achieve.

2) Same old quest grind - no alternative leveling paths for alts, gets stale the 3rd or 4th time. And you have to do EVERY single mission, every one to avoid the gaps.

3) PvP - yay arenas - How about some open world pvp flagged goodness. What about open world pvp objectives. If I wanted to grind scenarios/arena I would have stuck with WaR.

.

On Monster Island... theres a flying NPC called Sigmorph or something along those lines...

If you attack the thing.... you are flagged for PvP in the open world.... Ive been ganking people there for weeks :D

World PvP is a blast

Archived Post
10-07-2009, 01:03 PM
Have I been completely locked in a bubble?

What game has alternate quest paths that I don't know about?

I see this mentioned a lot on here. All the games I have played had just one path outside class/race stuff that usually is just the beginning of the game.

WoW has a starting zone for each race, and you can do those quests even if you aren't of that race. That usually takes you up to your low 20s. Past that point, there are at least 2 choices (if not 3-4) for each of the level ranges, and within those areas there are typically enough quests to level out of the zone without doing every single quest in the zone, allowing you to save some of the quest content for another character.

One of the bigger mistakes Blizzard made with the release of Burning Crusade was only adding a single zone with level content in the high 50s/low 60s, so when they released WotLK they made sure to add two zones for the high 60s/low 70s.

You also have the option, starting around the mid teens (Horde-side) or late teens/early twenties (Alliance) to level through 5-man dungeons.

All of that comes back to a lack of content. It probably should have been there at release - but I think that the rumors of CO getting rushed out by Atari probably hold some truth, and so unfortunately they're stuck now pushing it out as fast as they can get it coded.

Archived Post
10-07-2009, 01:03 PM
Appearently you like WoW and wanted more of a traditional MMO experience. Thats well and good, and there are plenty of games for that. CO was a diversion from the norm, and since it's a diversion from the norm it's treading new waters. If you don't have the patience to enjoy it for what it is while it continues to get molded, then you're free to go play WoW and grind out your professions(I recommend JC and Enchanting).

By the way, you could have just not posted that you were done, and been done; but you're pretty much just coming off as a peeved troll who wants attention.

"I'm significant!" - exclaimed the speck of dust.

If I were a troll I would have written, "This game sux! L2P Fainbois lol" I think I gave some very valid points rather than just trolling. Unless Crypic doesn't want feedback, which I highly doubt.

Archived Post
10-07-2009, 01:06 PM
And then the tiny speck of dust, while resting upon the mountain that he compirses, bellows, " I'm significant!" An avalanche occurs and a villiage is gone forever.

Archived Post
10-07-2009, 01:07 PM
Well, if you play WoW, then you know in that game there is no incentive to group, except if you want to complete some dungeon quests that pop up while leveling. Just like it is here in CO. WoW does have a much better system of quest sharing though.

As far as the open or world pvp, doesn't anyone read the game info on the main page? Or even the quest text you get from the Hero Games quest givers? Until the time comes when players in this game are not all on the same side, there isn't going to be any world pvp.

Documentation, yeah. Content? Yeah, but more stuff is being added, and the game has been out about a month. Not bad. As far as your comment that "most people" are playing FOTM builds, from my experiences you are totally wrong. Maybe in lower level PvP, but that's still a minority in this game. Most of the people I talk to while playing all have some very different builds, even while using a lot of the same powers. I like that.

Now, again I bring up the fact that you mentioned you play WoW. So do I, and I've been playing it for about four years now. And still with every patch Blizzard tries balancing and rebalancing. Your statement number 5 can be applied to that game just as consistently.

But hey, if the game isn't what you expect or you are not having fun, then by all means go play one that you enjoy. Have fun!

You do 5-mans for more then just quests....The 5-mans in WoW DROP GEEAR 100% of the times you kill them way more reasons to party up in WoW

Archived Post
10-07-2009, 01:08 PM
Have I been completely locked in a bubble?

What game has alternate quest paths that I don't know about?

I see this mentioned a lot on here. All the games I have played had just one path outside class/race stuff that usually is just the beginning of the game.

You can level a half dozen chars to 50 in Vanguard without seeing the same areas twice....

... I mean.. I'm playing this, and not that anymore.. So it's obvious which one I prefer.

.. I'm just sayin...

Archived Post
10-07-2009, 01:08 PM
If I were a troll I would have written, "This game sux! L2P Fainbois lol" I think I gave some very valid points rather than just trolling. Unless Crypic doesn't want feedback, which I highly doubt.

Your feedback was valid, and most were points that I've seen repeated and, to an extent, experienced in-game.

There still seems to be a lot of raw nerves from the flood of "zomgquit" posts; I expect it to die down in the next two weeks or so (or at least hope it will). As I've said before, a community of "yes men" who never offer any critical feedback will hurt this game just as much as the flood of zomgquit posts do.

Archived Post
10-07-2009, 01:08 PM
Some points are valid, but I have a lot of toons, and none are FOTM - and they are all fun and all viable in PvP. I choose powers based on my character theme.

Archived Post
10-07-2009, 01:09 PM
You do 5-mans for more then just quests....The 5-mans in WoW DROP GEEAR 100% of the times you kill them way more reasons to party up in WoW

You don't need to run any instances while leveling up in WoW unless you want to. You don't even need to update your gear until you hit Northrend with anything other than quest items. That's because WoW has changed a lot since the time when the level cap was 60.

Archived Post
10-07-2009, 01:09 PM
On Monster Island... theres a flying NPC called Sigmorph or something along those lines...

If you attack the thing.... you are flagged for PvP in the open world.... Ive been ganking people there for weeks :D

World PvP is a blast

Ugh. How nice. At least I know to avoid that now.

Open pvp sucks if you're not a pvp player.

Archived Post
10-07-2009, 01:12 PM
Ugh. How nice. At least I know to avoid that now.

Open pvp sucks if you're not a pvp player.


Oh cmon now.... come by and swat the pretty NPC.... he wont bite hard...:D

But I may ! :eek:

Archived Post
10-07-2009, 01:13 PM
If I were a troll I would have written, "This game sux! L2P Fainbois lol" I think I gave some very valid points rather than just trolling. Unless Crypic doesn't want feedback, which I highly doubt.

They were all completely original too, or at least never expressed with such style and panache, you adorable little snowflake. Your preternatural eloquence will surely make THIS thread the one that gets through to the devs.

Archived Post
10-07-2009, 01:13 PM
And then the tiny speck of dust, while resting upon the mountain that he compirses, bellows, " I'm significant!" An avalanche occurs and a villiage is gone forever.

ditto - except I'm contributing, and you're just whining

Archived Post
10-07-2009, 01:14 PM
You don't need to run any instances while leveling up in WoW unless you want to. You don't even need to update your gear until you hit Northrend with anything other than quest items. That's because WoW has changed a lot since the time when the level cap was 60.

I have played wow at 60,70 & 80 and taking some time to upgrade your gear = faster leveling in the long tun. But this is all off topic.

Archived Post
10-07-2009, 01:14 PM
They were all completely original too, or at least never expressed with such style and panache, you adorable little snowflake. Your preternatural eloquence will surely make THIS thread the one that gets through to the devs.

You need to get off your high horse already. If you can't contribute to the conversation other than resorting to insults, well, that's just sad.

Archived Post
10-07-2009, 01:17 PM
I have played wow at 60,70 & 80 and taking some time to upgrade your gear = faster leveling in the long tun. But this is all off topic.

No, I don't think it's off topic. The OP said that there is no incentive to teaming in CO. He also stated he plays WoW. I pointed out that in WoW there is also no incentive to grouping, unless one wants to achieve certain goals. Now, in WoW, most of the grouping happens at end game because of the way the endgame is designed in WoW.

Archived Post
10-07-2009, 01:20 PM
I totally expect to be ripped apart so go for it...

Ask and you shall receive.

1) No incentive to group - there's no reason to group up while leveling. At end game you just group "for fun", while that's fine, there's nothing to achieve.

Is coming. You will in the next weeks get assist XP, and more missions will be shareable. There's already the new Primary mission setting, that allows you to show to other players which missions are primary even if they are not shareable.

Of course it could be better. For instance, I would like to get rid of share range altogether, instead of increasing it from 100 to 500 as of today's patch.

2) Same old quest grind - no alternative leveling paths for alts, gets stale the 3rd or 4th time. And you have to do EVERY single mission, every one to avoid the gaps.

Is coming. More content is put in, not at every patch, but constantly. Sure, I would like to have more, but on the other hand, I don't suffer that much as I only play three hours a day four days a week, so it will probably take me about one more month to reach level cap.

3) PvP - yay arenas - How about some open world pvp flagged goodness. What about open world pvp objectives. If I wanted to grind scenarios/arena I would have stuck with WaR.

This will require a total rewrite of game dynamics and concept. This game is based on conceptual level on superheroes; that is Good Guys vs Bad Guys with the players being the Good Guys (hence the title "Champions", instead of "Champions vs E.V.I.L." or something like that). It is designed as a PvE game with PvP added as a bonus.

You might argue that Civil War pitted heroes against heroes, or that there is usually a hero vs hero fight in any crossover Marvel comic, but the hero vs hero fights are random happenings that is best handled by the duels, and the Civil War thing is an event with a big E. It is not an ongoing thing: it comes, it rocks the foundations, it passes and leaves the world forever changed.

So I don't think that it is possible to pit player vs player on an open world basis without going against the superhero design of the game. You would have to write the game bottom up as a superhero vs supervillain game, which today means a total rewrite of the game. I'm wary about it, as supervillains as protagonists/player characters either come out as "dark heroes" (i.e. heroes doing hero stuff but having a "dark" personality and less scruples), or very cheap pastiches. You would also have to face that there can't be two kings on the throne: no world dominating villain would accept the competition from other world dominating villains. So the villain side would be pretty harshly fractured, and would in fact fit better as a RTS-ish game.

Finally, you have the slight problem of ratings. Even dark heroes always have problems with ratings from the fact that they are dark and thus do dark and nasty and violent stuff (as well as swear a lot). Making a game with villains as protagonists will also come into conflict with "moral majorities" of different kinds.

All these problems will have to be solved in order to fit an open world PvP thing into the game. As I see it, I can accept that this is a PvE focused game about superheroes with PvP as a bonus, or I can find another game.

4) Open Frameworks - their design always leads to FOTM, they can never be balanced. Sure some people play concept, and thats fine, but most just use FOTM powers and there will be and endless nerf/buff cycle because of it.

6) Balancing - Every patch they fix things but they make other things worse. They knee jerked the launch by turning up the difficulty and so far have only attempted to slow everything down.

These points are basically saying the same: the nerfs are there to try to bring balance to the game. Without them, you won't get any balance at all. Until the balance is chiseled out, you will have FotMs. It really doesn't matter if you have a class-based game or an open framework game - balance is always an issue. Getting it right will always take some time, no matter what game you play. WoW is still not done, despite being online for what, five years now?

5) Poor Documentation - both out of game and in game, Why put a bunch of effort into a hero only to find out things weren't working the way you thought they were due to buggy tooltips and descriptions.

Although I agree on documentation in game, there is a wiki (http://www.champions-online-wiki.com/wiki/Main_Page) - which of course is in a constant state of flux, part because it is a wiki and part because the subject of it is in a state of flux.

Archived Post
10-07-2009, 01:22 PM
No, I don't think it's off topic. The OP said that there is no incentive to teaming in CO. He also stated he plays WoW. I pointed out that in WoW there is also no incentive to grouping, unless one wants to achieve certain goals. Now, in WoW, most of the grouping happens at end game because of the way the endgame is designed in WoW. WoW there is more incentive to party then in CO, WoW has end game CO does not other then gimpy 5-mans that are pointless. But if WoW does or does not have incentive to party has nothing to do with CO and the OP said yes CO has no incentive
to party (Witch is true) and he said he plays WoW but he did not say he only played wow bc it had incentive to party, you are quote mining if he gave any reason to why he is playing WoW over CO it was he wanted to level professions more then playing CO

Archived Post
10-07-2009, 01:26 PM
You need to get off your high horse already. If you can't contribute to the conversation other than resorting to insults, well, that's just sad.

Whats sad is the narcissism that impels someone to say "look at me, look at me! I'm so special you surely want to hear the fascinating reasons why I've decided to stop playing a video game."

You've added nothing original at all, and contribute nothing to the conversation or community. You acknowledge this with the title of the thread.

Threads like this are really little more than trolling at this point. The fact that you stick around to respond to every criticism shows it.

Archived Post
10-07-2009, 01:38 PM
Whats sad is the narcissism that impels someone to say "look at me, look at me! I'm so special you surely want to hear the fascinating reasons why I've decided to stop playing a video game."

You've added nothing original at all, and contribute nothing to the conversation or community. You acknowledge this with the title of the thread.

Threads like this are really little more than trolling at this point. The fact that you stick around to respond to every criticism shows it.

No offense, but as someone who wants this game to succeed, I disagree. There are two methods of communicating with the developers of this game - bug reports and the forums. These items are not bugs; I wouldn't personally want them cluttering up the actual bug inbox. That leaves one medium of communication, and that's here.

It isn't narcissism to offer what you feel are constructive criticisms of a product, even if that criticism has already been brought forth. Heck, the company that I work for has a major conference every year for our business partners, and one of the panels is specifically for suggestions and criticisms of the product. As our paying customers, we welcome their criticisms, even if they are suggestions of complaints that we've heard multiple times before.

Some of the "I quit" threads were ludicrous - with that I agree. But some have had perfectly valid concerns, even if they were repetitious - and the fact that they are frequently getting shouted-down as trolling is damaging to the game in the long run.

Archived Post
10-07-2009, 01:46 PM
Whats sad is the narcissism that impels someone to say "look at me, look at me! I'm so special you surely want to hear the fascinating reasons why I've decided to stop playing a video game."

You've added nothing original at all, and contribute nothing to the conversation or community. You acknowledge this with the title of the thread.

Threads like this are really little more than trolling at this point. The fact that you stick around to respond to every criticism shows it.

I get it, you like the game enough to blindly defend it without even considering the flaws with it. You would rather spew viritol than listen to someone speak ill of your precious game. Well that's fine, you can throw insults at me all day long, just know you will get no satisfaction from me.

Archived Post
10-07-2009, 01:49 PM
3) PvP - yay arenas - How about some open world pvp flagged goodness. What about open world pvp objectives. If I wanted to grind scenarios/arena I would have stuck with WaR.



Didn't know super heroes would willingly attack another super hero for no reason...
Wait for the probably planned out "Nemesis Online" Then you'll get your open pvp and hopefully your other issues with this game will be resolved.

Archived Post
10-07-2009, 04:12 PM
Well I hate to play the WoW card again, cause everyone here hates it. But you have two factions, each race (except for a couple) have different starting zones. There are also many times during the course of the game you can choose to level in one of two (or more) different places. Plus, there's actual dungeons throughout the process that require a team, and real teamwork.

Edit: I'd also like to add that EQ, AC, UO and others also offered this.

And how long has that game been out???

Archived Post
10-07-2009, 05:02 PM
I totally expect to be ripped apart so go for it...

1) No incentive to group - there's no reason to group up while leveling. At end game you just group "for fun", while that's fine, there's nothing to achieve.

2) Same old quest grind - no alternative leveling paths for alts, gets stale the 3rd or 4th time. And you have to do EVERY single mission, every one to avoid the gaps.

3) PvP - yay arenas - How about some open world pvp flagged goodness. What about open world pvp objectives. If I wanted to grind scenarios/arena I would have stuck with WaR.

4) Open Frameworks - their design always leads to FOTM, they can never be balanced. Sure some people play concept, and thats fine, but most just use FOTM powers and there will be and endless nerf/buff cycle because of it.

5) Poor Documentation - both out of game and in game, Why put a bunch of effort into a hero only to find out things weren't working the way you thought they were due to buggy tooltips and descriptions.

6) Balancing - Every patch they fix things but they make other things worse. They knee jerked the launch by turning up the difficulty and so far have only attempted to slow everything down.

I completely expect people to reply with the standard, new MMO/potential/no nerfs, just bug fixes, etc... so go for it. I'm especially looking forward to the anal guy who quotes every point and addresses them individually, so make it good.

I agree with every one of your points that you have made. Thank you for your contribution

Archived Post
10-07-2009, 05:08 PM
I agree with every one of your points that you have made. Thank you for your contribution

So you're leaving too then Henny?

Archived Post
10-07-2009, 09:26 PM
And how long has that game been out???

Doesn't matter, WoW launched with the different starting areas. I hate to keep bringing up WoW cause everyone here hates it, but you made a very poor point.

Archived Post
10-07-2009, 09:33 PM
I totally expect to be ripped apart so go for it...

So you did it anyway? Given that you have ample opportunity to send feedback at the time of cancellation. Why?

Archived Post
10-07-2009, 09:44 PM
Have I been completely locked in a bubble?

What game has alternate quest paths that I don't know about?

I see this mentioned a lot on here. All the games I have played had just one path outside class/race stuff that usually is just the beginning of the game.

CO beta/headstart generally allowed players the choice of going to Canada or Desert, XP wasn't as tight as it is now.

Archived Post
10-07-2009, 09:58 PM
Well, at least he admitted from the get go he was only posting to **** people off and start flames. Gotta give him credit for that. Not much though. It might go to his already over swollen ego <LOL>.

Hey, you don't like the game. Big whoop di do. It doesn't reward you enough. Sheesh. Whatever happened to just playing a game to have FUN?!? You even admit in #1 that the only reason to group is fun...and that wasn't enough for you. Well, you'd be an idiot to stick around in a game you didn't enjoy, so more power to you in WoW. But out of curiosity...what do the achievements you aquire there do for you exactly? I mean, can you walk up to your boss and say, "Hey bossman! I got an uber shoulder piece in a 50 man raid last night!" and he'll respond, "COOL DUDE! Here's that raise you been wanting cuz you da MAN!" After work, when you hit the club, will you sidle up to some hot big knockered chick and say, "Heeeyyyy babe! You shoulda seen the uber damage I did while tankin last night!" and she'll coo back, "Oh you big strong warrior you! Take me! Take me now! Take me like the blood elf wench I wish I was YOU STUD!" Or will those 'acheivements' be just as meaningless?

You know, when I'm on my deathbed (sooner then I'll like most likely) I'll be able to look back at my life's achievements. Lives I've saved, bad guys I've put away. Children I've made laugh. People I've helped. I kind of doubt I'll regard being a lvl 50 ranger in **** as one of my big accomplishments. Or my champion here as being my legacy. I won't gasp out with my dying breath, "Thank the gods...,gasp....I got the...gasp....perk for most....perkksssss" beeeeeeeeeeeeee.... That you put so much importance on 'achievements' in a stupid game....well, makes me wonder.

Archived Post
10-07-2009, 10:56 PM
Ah, buh bye.

Archived Post
10-07-2009, 10:59 PM
TLDR and I don't think you actually have anything constructive to add.

I thought you had already /ragequit.

Archived Post
10-08-2009, 12:22 AM
We have a saying in my country - the coyote of the desert likes to eat the heart of the young and the blood drips down to his children for breakfast, lunch and dinner and only the ribs will be broken.

Archived Post
10-08-2009, 12:23 AM
We have a saying in my country - the coyote of the desert likes to eat the heart of the young and the blood drips down to his children for breakfast, lunch and dinner and only the ribs will be broken.

thanks, i now have an idea of where i'd like to go for a vacation

Archived Post
10-08-2009, 12:29 AM
Some valid points

Archived Post
10-08-2009, 12:30 AM
Some valid points

I thought you were kidding. I thought it was a joke, I even wrote it down in my diary. KeystoneMan had a very funny joke today. I laughed at it later that night.

Archived Post
10-08-2009, 12:32 AM
Yeah, he has some valid points. Points which have been gone over and rehashed daily for 5 weeks. Points the Devs have addressed multiple times. Points which some work has already been done on, and released in patches. He's like the guy who passes a road crew busily at work and angrily exclaims, "Just look at the condition of this road! They should fix it!" Um...they are. Either have the patience to wait for them to finish or take another route.

Archived Post
10-08-2009, 01:56 AM
[Insert generic scathing riposte here]

Archived Post
10-08-2009, 02:08 AM
I totally expect to be ripped apart so go for it...

1) No incentive to group - there's no reason to group up while leveling. At end game you just group "for fun", while that's fine, there's nothing to achieve.

2) Same old quest grind - no alternative leveling paths for alts, gets stale the 3rd or 4th time. And you have to do EVERY single mission, every one to avoid the gaps.

3) PvP - yay arenas - How about some open world pvp flagged goodness. What about open world pvp objectives. If I wanted to grind scenarios/arena I would have stuck with WaR.

4) Open Frameworks - their design always leads to FOTM, they can never be balanced. Sure some people play concept, and thats fine, but most just use FOTM powers and there will be and endless nerf/buff cycle because of it.

5) Poor Documentation - both out of game and in game, Why put a bunch of effort into a hero only to find out things weren't working the way you thought they were due to buggy tooltips and descriptions.

6) Balancing - Every patch they fix things but they make other things worse. They knee jerked the launch by turning up the difficulty and so far have only attempted to slow everything down.

I completely expect people to reply with the standard, new MMO/potential/no nerfs, just bug fixes, etc... so go for it. I'm especially looking forward to the anal guy who quotes every point and addresses them individually, so make it good.

generic who cares

Archived Post
10-08-2009, 02:10 AM
@ OP: Valid Points. Hope you have fun wherever you end up, even if it's just back in WoW.

@ Flamers : You do realize making all these ridiculous attacks whenever someone quits or offers criticism doesn't promote a good community or the game at all, right? So if this game ends up like Tabula Rasa (relatively quick death), you can feel proud you did your part to drive people away :rolleyes:.

Less people playing = Less $$ for Cryptic = Bad.

Archived Post
10-08-2009, 02:20 AM
@ OP: Valid Points. Hope you have fun wherever you end up, even if it's just back in WoW.

@ Flamers : You do realize making all these ridiculous attacks whenever someone quits or offers criticism doesn't promote a good community or the game at all, right? So if this game ends up like Tabula Rasa (relatively quick death), you can feel proud you did your part to drive people away :rolleyes:.

Less people playing = Less $$ for Cryptic = Bad.

What the people (flamers as you put it) object to is the fact that this post brings nothing new to the table, it is a rehash of complaints that every single I quit poster feels the need to point out, even though the points have already been acknowledged and are being worked upon by the devs.

All these posts do is serve as a soapbox for anyone who wishes to either bash or defend the game, you talk about good community? This is exactly the kind of post that divides a community. If the OP wishes to play something else then fine, why doesn't he just send his complaints to Cryptic along with his cancellation request like any level headed person would do?

At best the poster is self delusional at his own importance, at worst he's troll baiting.

This is why I quit posts are against the rules.

Archived Post
10-08-2009, 02:29 AM
WoW has a starting zone for each race, and you can do those quests even if you aren't of that race. That usually takes you up to your low 20s. Past that point, there are at least 2 choices (if not 3-4) for each of the level ranges, and within those areas there are typically enough quests to level out of the zone without doing every single quest in the zone, allowing you to save some of the quest content for another character.

One of the bigger mistakes Blizzard made with the release of Burning Crusade was only adding a single zone with level content in the high 50s/low 60s, so when they released WotLK they made sure to add two zones for the high 60s/low 70s.

You also have the option, starting around the mid teens (Horde-side) or late teens/early twenties (Alliance) to level through 5-man dungeons.

All of that comes back to a lack of content. It probably should have been there at release - but I think that the rumors of CO getting rushed out by Atari probably hold some truth, and so unfortunately they're stuck now pushing it out as fast as they can get it coded.


I know the in thing to do is bash WoW but blizzard really did make a great MMORPG... Its hard for any new MMORPG to compete with WoW even the WoW of 4 to 5 years ago when it was first released. It had/has something for everyone. Casual players, hardcore players, PvE players, PvP players... it just did so many things right.. The combat and animations real right and the graphics were good for its time. The UI was done well and people could improve it..

The combat and animations in CO feels good just like it does in WoW and I like the graphics.. Those are some of the things keeping me around even with the issues. I do have alot of concerns like power set balance and lack of end game content and the game is too casual.. Any time you can solo 5 man content that is not a good sign.. The devs have 6 months to make this game shine or I will cancel my account. I think that is a fair amount of time to give the devs. If I didnt get the 6 month sub I probably wouldnt even give them that much time to be honest...

Archived Post
10-08-2009, 02:36 AM
What the people (flamers as you put it) object to is the fact that this post brings nothing new to the table, it is a rehash of complaints that every single I quit poster feels the need to point out, even though the points have already been acknowledged and are being worked upon by the devs.

All these posts do is serve as a soapbox for anyone who wishes to either bash or defend the game, you talk about good community? This is exactly the kind of post that divides a community. If the OP wishes to play something else then fine, why doesn't he just send his complaints to Cryptic along with his cancellation request like any level headed person would do?

At best the poster is self delusional at his own importance, at worst he's troll baiting.

This is why I quit posts are against the rules.

That's your opinion of course. I always felt that criticism helps MMO's far more then blind fanboy gushing. As long as it is constructive.

The OP's post was rather constructive and even if it contained comments or opinions that have been expressed before, it is still valid feedback. More people expressing certain points makes them more of a priority to developers.

Oh and about "quitting" posts being against the rules, then just report it and move on. People replying just to bash the OP is obviously not good for the game. It makes the person more likely to follow through on quitting, less likely to return at some point down the line, and it may cause potential new players to not buy the game when they come check out the forums to research it.

Of course those are all only possible results of all these absurd attacks but if you enjoy the game and want to see it stick around, why risk alienating others (both current and potential subscribers)?

Sorry, but it's just dumb.

Archived Post
10-08-2009, 02:40 AM
What the people (flamers as you put it) object to is the fact that this post brings nothing new to the table, it is a rehash of complaints that every single I quit poster feels the need to point out, even though the points have already been acknowledged and are being worked upon by the devs..

So? We have a new PvP-TP post every day, along with a few' NERF X power' threads. Add the weekly 'mainteinance times sucks' post :D

At least, this one was not a flamefest, and it is somehow refreshing ;)

P.D: Agree wtih you, Prof. Madcap. This comunity is getting worse every day. I still have faith, tho ;)

Archived Post
10-08-2009, 02:46 AM
I totally expect to be ripped apart so go for it...

1) No incentive to group - there's no reason to group up while leveling. At end game you just group "for fun", while that's fine, there's nothing to achieve.

I once saw a Polar bear at the zoo. It was very pretty. Then it pooped in the pool. That was.... uncomfortable. I felt semi sort of violated. As if, how could this majestic creature, so full of life, simple defecate into the pristine pool provided for its amusement.

Then I went and got a hot dog, and it was all good.


2) Same old quest grind - no alternative leveling paths for alts, gets stale the 3rd or 4th time. And you have to do EVERY single mission, every one to avoid the gaps.

Did you know, that the mayfly lives for a single 24 hour period? It grows, reproduces, and dies... all within a single 24 hour period. Can you imagine a life with a cycle that was only 24 hours long? I wonder if time is singular subjective to the individual experiencing it. Perhaps, then, the length of the life is not as important as the quality of it.


3) PvP - yay arenas - How about some open world pvp flagged goodness. What about open world pvp objectives. If I wanted to grind scenarios/arena I would have stuck with WaR.

I have five cats. Paris, Bella, Fat Boy, Shy Boy, and Miracle. We gave Miracle her name because she was the runt of the litter, and we didnt really expect her to survive. Having five cats, in a single area can be... problematic at times. They often compete for the same resources.. food, catnip, water, boxes and furniture to shred with their dagger like claws. I have often thought of getting rid of all five cats and having a cat free life. But I find, that very thought of this means I would somehow betray them... leave them to a fate when I am in turn responsible for their care. Thus, I am forever stuck with five cats. But I like the cats. They have personality. Even if spend a fortune on clay chalky bits to keep their stinkies from smelling up the house.

4) Open Frameworks - their design always leads to FOTM, they can never be balanced. Sure some people play concept, and thats fine, but most just use FOTM powers and there will be and endless nerf/buff cycle because of it.

Did you realize that ever major religion centers around a single idea? The idea that we, as imperfect creations, have the ability to choose. That such choices, as we make, have a direct impact on the course of the universe. People have labeled this the ripple effect. And there is a great deal of truth to this. Unfortunately with choice comes responsibility. And most often, people are a very irresponsible bunch.

5) Poor Documentation - both out of game and in game, Why put a bunch of effort into a hero only to find out things weren't working the way you thought they were due to buggy tooltips and descriptions.

I think the greatest book I have ever read was Stranger in a strange land. It was by far, the single most moving piece of fiction ever. I think you should read it, if you have the mind to.

6) Balancing - Every patch they fix things but they make other things worse. They knee jerked the launch by turning up the difficulty and so far have only attempted to slow everything down.

I have found that within myself exists the potential for great good and great evil. This leads to a daily balancing act. I find I must examine my motives for decisions I make, in the most complete and honest light I can, to decide if what I am doing is honestly one polarity or the other.

Otherwise, what I have seen happen is a decision made, and then simple justification given. So balance requires introspection. I find most people dont like introspection, it requires them to look at themselves honestly and openly. This is not a quality that is often wanted in our society.

I blame this on slurpees.


I completely expect people to reply with the standard, new MMO/potential/no nerfs, just bug fixes, etc... so go for it. I'm especially looking forward to the anal guy who quotes every point and addresses them individually, so make it good.

I hope this post helps you to understand why you are wrong. And that you seek within yourself the courage and maturity to ask forgiveness for such an erroneous post.

Love and hugs.

Archived Post
10-08-2009, 02:47 AM
...P.D: Agree wtih you, Prof. Madcap. This comunity is getting worse every day. I still have faith, tho ;)

Yep, I actually do like the game even though I have my issues with it. I don't want these forums to drive people away.

The game has potential and I would very much like for Cryptic to have the time to add to it. They need to keep more then just life time subscribers to do that :p.

*Edit* Heh, there we go. Pairadox's post is more like it. Disagreeing while still being amusing and oddly elegant ;).

Archived Post
10-08-2009, 02:50 AM
I once saw a Polar bear at the zoo. It was very pretty. Then it pooped in the pool. That was.... uncomfortable. I felt semi sort of violated. As if, how could this majestic creature, so full of life, simple defecate into the pristine pool provided for its amusement.

Then I went and got a hot dog, and it was all good.




Did you know, that the mayfly lives for a single 24 hour period? It grows, reproduces, and dies... all within a single 24 hour period. Can you imagine a life with a cycle that was only 24 hours long? I wonder if time is singular subjective to the individual experiencing it. Perhaps, then, the length of the life is not as important as the quality of it.




I have five cats. Paris, Bella, Fat Boy, Shy Boy, and Miracle. We gave Miracle her name because she was the runt of the litter, and we didnt really expect her to survive. Having five cats, in a single area can be... problematic at times. They often compete for the same resources.. food, catnip, water, boxes and furniture to shred with their dagger like claws. I have often thought of getting rid of all five cats and having a cat free life. But I find, that very thought of this means I would somehow betray them... leave them to a fate when I am in turn responsible for their care. Thus, I am forever stuck with five cats. But I like the cats. They have personality. Even if spend a fortune on clay chalky bits to keep their stinkies from smelling up the house.



Did you realize that ever major religion centers around a single idea? The idea that we, as imperfect creations, have the ability to choose. That such choices, as we make, have a direct impact on the course of the universe. People have labeled this the ripple effect. And there is a great deal of truth to this. Unfortunately with choice comes responsibility. And most often, people are a very irresponsible bunch.



I think the greatest book I have ever read was Stranger in a strange land. It was by far, the single most moving piece of fiction ever. I think you should read it, if you have the mind to.



I have found that within myself exists the potential for great good and great evil. This leads to a daily balancing act. I find I must examine my motives for decisions I make, in the most complete and honest light I can, to decide if what I am doing is honestly one polarity or the other.

Otherwise, what I have seen happen is a decision made, and then simple justification given. So balance requires introspection. I find most people dont like introspection, it requires them to look at themselves honestly and openly. This is not a quality that is often wanted in our society.

I blame this on slurpees.




I hope this post helps you to understand why you are wrong. And that you seek within yourself the courage and maturity to ask forgiveness for such an erroneous post.

Love and hugs.

you are pretty much awesomesauce

Archived Post
10-08-2009, 02:54 AM
Whats sad is the narcissism that impels someone to say "look at me, look at me! I'm so special you surely want to hear the fascinating reasons why I've decided to stop playing a video game."



Pot. Meet Kettle.

Really, you are screaming for attention more then a wrist cutting 14 year old goth girl.

Archived Post
10-08-2009, 02:55 AM
im kinda on the fence for this game too, but i really liked this game its just that the patches have and (i suspect) will be demoralizing for weeks to come (concluded from the direction of the game is going from the prev patches). That being said, since a few great offline games will be coming out soon (dragon age for 1) im gonna give myself a break from this game and hope it becomes more refine soon. For now i just wanna hang around the forums and take a look at blood moon before recovering from the bruises of having my 2 lvl 40s and other 2 alts getting nerf batted time and time again

Archived Post
10-08-2009, 02:59 AM
One of the biggest retorts i see in regards to these threads and when someone brings up wow is they bring up its age.

That shouldn't matter, when ever you buy a new product you expect it to be better then the older generation, when it isn't most of the time people become dissappointed and if they have a choice return it or return to the product they already know and trust. To expect a new mmo to be flawless when it comes out of the box is unrealistic, but expecting it to be better then the current generation of mmos is not. It is not unrealistic to find people unwilling to constantly pay 15 dollars a month for a game that to them is iinferior to other games in the genre.

The fact that games have come out and have not been atleast content wise better then WoW (or Eve, or GWs or whatever has been out for a while) is why games like AoC, War, Tabula, and so many others have fallen to the bottem of the market, or have been shut down.

To the "content will be added crowd" this is true, mmos are always evolving and new content is always being added but when a game starts out with limited or unappealing content, (some of the animations still need some work such as the acrobatic/super speed animations and II personally find each fight so far that I've been in to be rather dull and the thought of sending another character through the terrible tutorial isn't appealing either) the expectations for the new contant dwindle and you begin to look upon it with skepticism.

it is true that these "I quit" threads are in abundant but that is the case with nearly every mmo forum. There will always be people trying to get attention, but even those posts are important to a developer, Because until you are sitting next to each person making an "I quit" post you don't know their intentions. They need to know the player bases true feelings about the game.

Archived Post
10-08-2009, 03:12 AM
What the people (flamers as you put it) object to is the fact that this post brings nothing new to the table, it is a rehash of complaints that every single I quit poster feels the need to point out, even though the points have already been acknowledged and are being worked upon by the devs.

All these posts do is serve as a soapbox for anyone who wishes to either bash or defend the game, you talk about good community? This is exactly the kind of post that divides a community. If the OP wishes to play something else then fine, why doesn't he just send his complaints to Cryptic along with his cancellation request like any level headed person would do?

At best the poster is self delusional at his own importance, at worst he's troll baiting.

This is why I quit posts are against the rules.

This is exactly what i wanted to say, so i just thought id quote you instead :)

That's your opinion of course. I always felt that criticism helps MMO's far more then blind fanboy gushing. As long as it is constructive.

What planet do you live on where the devs actually read every single flame war 'i quit' post and send memos out to all employees telling them what to change?

Also as noted above all the valid complaints he made have all been acknowledged and are being worked on, so pray tell what use there is bringing them up again and again like you are the first person to notice it??

Pot. Meet Kettle.

Really, you are screaming for attention more then a wrist cutting 14 year old goth girl.

What a surprise to see you in this thread... really i nearly fell off my chair

Archived Post
10-08-2009, 03:13 AM
That's your opinion of course. I always felt that criticism helps MMO's far more then blind fanboy gushing. As long as it is constructive.

Criticism does help, I agree, but I also believe that there is a time and a place and an 'I quit' post is neither.

The OP's post was rather constructive and even if it contained comments or opinions that have been expressed before, it is still valid feedback. More people expressing certain points makes them more of a priority to developers.

Again I agree, but he could address it directly to the developers with his leaving request, seeing as he is leaving anyway why post it for everyone to comment upon knowing full well that it will degenerate into a tit-for-tat flamefest. The title says it all.

Oh and about "quitting" posts being against the rules, then just report it and move on. People replying just to bash the OP is obviously not good for the game. It makes the person more likely to follow through on quitting, less likely to return at some point down the line, and it may cause potential new players to not buy the game when they come check out the forums to research it.

For the same reason that you didn't just ignore my comments and move on, when someone puts up a target in a room full of gun-nuts then it is going to get hit, some people like to shoot for the fun of it, some for target practice and some because they'd rather not see the ensuing bloodbath.

Of course those are all only possible results of all these absurd attacks but if you enjoy the game and want to see it stick around, why risk alienating others (both current and potential subscribers)?

I agree that more tact could be used at times, however the OP knew exactly what he was doing when he posted

I totally expect to be ripped apart so go for it...
and
I completely expect people to reply with the standard, new MMO/potential/no nerfs, just bug fixes, etc... so go for it. I'm especially looking forward to the anal guy who quotes every point and addresses them individually, so make it good.

It is trollbaiting of the highest order.

Sorry, but it's just dumb.

I agree, but so is trying to defend someone who is an obvious troll, you may agree with his points, most of us do but this post wasn't about that, it was inflammatory and goading and was only ever going to head in one direction.

So? We have a new PvP-TP post every day, along with a few' NERF X power' threads. Add the weekly 'mainteinance times sucks' post

At least, this one was not a flamefest, and it is somehow refreshing

P.D: Agree wtih you, Prof. Madcap. This comunity is getting worse every day. I still have faith, tho

I agree that those posts are just annoying, but just because they exist doesn't mean that we should just have carte blanche.

I personally feel that the community has improved a lot over the last month, we are down from virtually every post being a rehashed complaint and trolls to just some, with tolerance levels actually being a lot better.

If you feel it is worsening then that's a shame because I think the majority feel otherwise, we are aware of the games shortcomings, we just don't feel the need to spell them out over and over when they have already been acknowledged and addressed.

Archived Post
10-08-2009, 03:18 AM
sweet moves SB

in other words "Pwned"

Archived Post
10-08-2009, 03:21 AM
One of the biggest retorts i see in regards to these threads and when someone brings up wow is they bring up its age.

That shouldn't matter, when ever you buy a new product you expect it to be better then the older generation, when it isn't most of the time people become dissappointed and if they have a choice return it or return to the product they already know and trust. To expect a new mmo to be flawless when it comes out of the box is unrealistic, but expecting it to be better then the current generation of mmos is not. It is not unrealistic to find people unwilling to constantly pay 15 dollars a month for a game that to them is iinferior to other games in the genre.

The fact that games have come out and have not been atleast content wise better then WoW (or Eve, or GWs or whatever has been out for a while) is why games like AoC, War, Tabula, and so many others have fallen to the bottem of the market, or have been shut down.

To the "content will be added crowd" this is true, mmos are always evolving and new content is always being added but when a game starts out with limited or unappealing content, (some of the animations still need some work such as the acrobatic/super speed animations and II personally find each fight so far that I've been in to be rather dull and the thought of sending another character through the terrible tutorial isn't appealing either) the expectations for the new contant dwindle and you begin to look upon it with skepticism.

it is true that these "I quit" threads are in abundant but that is the case with nearly every mmo forum. There will always be people trying to get attention, but even those posts are important to a developer, Because until you are sitting next to each person making an "I quit" post you don't know their intentions. They need to know the player bases true feelings about the game.


There is a great deal of negativity in this world today. I find that between extremism, the tea parties, the anger and hatred that seems to be in abundance we lose track of something so very simple.

Slurpees are very tasty.

In the early days, there were many proponents of the anti slurpee society. Those that decried the tasty frozen beverage was entirely too cold. That the very coldness that was its nature detracted from the yummy goodness that made it so popular.

Others stated that the choice of flavors was entirely to few. Coke, cherry, and the blue stuff.

The developers of slurpee listened, and attempted to appease the greater portion of their market by bringing the mean temperature of the slurpee to a lower level. This however, produced the little love.... Saucee product. This product did not sell well, and thus the temperature was again brought to its original tasty frozeness.

The designers then, addressed the flavor issues. While certain flavors such as "Tropical vegetable" and "Grapefruit delight" did not excel, others such as Mountain Dew, and Tropical Fruit, were met by an enthusiastic market.

Fast forward about 10 years.

The slurpee has been inundated with new inventions. The Licorce straw. The baseball hologram card stuck in the bottom (for you children of the 80's, and the Superhero/Movie glass.

Had the slurpee company not stayed the course and given up its dreams of clay production and distrubtion, we would be denied one of our most delicious and tasty treats.

I hope this helps you understand why you are wrong.

Archived Post
10-08-2009, 03:23 AM
Well I hate to play the WoW card again, cause everyone here hates it. But you have two factions, each race (except for a couple) have different starting zones. There are also many times during the course of the game you can choose to level in one of two (or more) different places. Plus, there's actual dungeons throughout the process that require a team, and real teamwork.

Edit: I'd also like to add that EQ, AC, UO and others also offered this.

But WoW has been out for YEARS...when they first started they had about as much content as CO and many more problems. So yeah, if ya want to play a well established game and not GROW with a new game, than yes, WoW is for you.

As far as the OP is concerned, I fart in his general direction! Rage quit now or I shall taunt you a second time!

Archived Post
10-08-2009, 03:23 AM
Pairadox, I think I love you. In a purely platonic way of course. ;)

Archived Post
10-08-2009, 03:26 AM
Pairadox, I think I love you. In a purely platonic way of course. ;)

I accept your brotherly/sisterly love and raise you feelings of general good will.

Ironically, I took the time to post feelings of a negative nature on numerous occasions and have learned a valuable lesson.

Im not quite sure what it is, and it may take me several decades to unravel, but I am quite certain it involves slurpees.

Archived Post
10-08-2009, 03:29 AM
There is a great deal of negativity in this world today. I find that between extremism, the tea parties, the anger and hatred that seems to be in abundance we lose track of something so very simple.

Slurpees are very tasty.

In the early days, there were many proponents of the anti slurpee society. Those that decried the tasty frozen beverage was entirely too cold. That the very coldness that was its nature detracted from the yummy goodness that made it so popular.

Others stated that the choice of flavors was entirely to few. Coke, cherry, and the blue stuff.

The developers of slurpee listened, and attempted to appease the greater portion of their market by bringing the mean temperature of the slurpee to a lower level. This however, produced the little love.... Saucee product. This product did not sell well, and thus the temperature was again brought to its original tasty frozeness.

The designers then, addressed the flavor issues. While certain flavors such as "Tropical vegetable" and "Grapefruit delight" did not excel, others such as Mountain Dew, and Tropical Fruit, were met by an enthusiastic market.

Fast forward about 10 years.

The slurpee has been inundated with new inventions. The Licorce straw. The baseball hologram card stuck in the bottom (for you children of the 80's, and the Superhero/Movie glass.

Had the slurpee company not stayed the course and given up its dreams of clay production and distrubtion, we would be denied one of our most delicious and tasty treats.

I hope this helps you understand why you are wrong.

how many times can you be awesome in one thread?

Archived Post
10-08-2009, 03:29 AM
Only two of the bullet points have to do with content. And even then, the PvP issue is debatable .

Most of these points are related to Design. I think most people will be willing to wait for more content, even if it's a bit threadbare at start. What they won't stomach is a bad design and a lack of clear direction.

That was the issue with AoC and WAR. Not so much the lack of content (though of course that was an item) but the clunky mechanisms, haphazard changes and lack of global direction.

To some extent, this applies to CO. If it's meant to be group-oriented, why are so many quests not shareable ? Why don't missions scale with numbers ? What is done to make group playing more synergistic ?

If it's meant to be a solo game (which too often it feels like) at least say so. But then, why pay a sub for an action solo game ?

I feel the issues are confused by the intent to have a console version. It was the same for AoC. In the end, the gameplay was an unconvincing compromise.

WAR's story is different. The designers had clear objectives, but they were not those of their customers. Not having a clear objective is a cardinal sin for an MMO, having objectives that don't relate to your intended market is a bad idea for any product. (Take for example the focus on eliminating goldsellers. It was a clear objective and a largely successful one. But it had the side effect of eliminating all meaningful economy in WAR...)

As for CO, I'm still waiting to see how things develop. I'm quite wiling to wait for content. But my decision will be mostly based on where the design goes from here.

ATM, I wiew CO as a filler. If it does not evolve, I will simply move on.

Archived Post
10-08-2009, 03:32 AM
how many times can you be awesome in one thread?

So far 2, apparently.

But stop, really, you're making me blush.

Have you ever seen a five foot five, hairy, sasquatch overweight, old man blush?

No?

Ill send pictures. Clothed. With slurpees.

Archived Post
10-08-2009, 03:35 AM
So far 2, apparently.

But stop, really, you're making me blush.

Have you ever seen a five foot five, hairy, sasquatch overweight, old man blush?

No?

Ill send pictures. Clothed. With slurpees.

i don't even know how to react to this... i'm sure i'll think of something though.

Archived Post
10-08-2009, 03:37 AM
how many times can you be awesome in one thread?

Probably not as many times as you can brown nose someone in one thread... Maybe you should come up for air.. It cant be healthy spending that much time in someones crack..

Archived Post
10-08-2009, 03:38 AM
sweet moves SB

in other words "Pwned"

Heh, "Pwned"? He basically just agreed with me over and over :p.


.. For the same reason that you didn't just ignore my comments and move on, when someone puts up a target in a room full of gun-nuts then it is going to get hit, some people like to shoot for the fun of it, some for target practice and some because they'd rather not see the ensuing bloodbath.

Umm.. you quoted me, I just responded to you afterwards /shrug. There is a difference between people just bashing someone who posted constructive criticism explaining why he was quitting and me giving my opinion why that is bad for the game.

It's not like CO has been an over the top success, so anything that could possibly drive more people away (or keep others from trying it) is bad. Pretty simple.

Oh and I never said I agreed with the OP's points. I just said they were valid.

Also, I disagree that the title of this thread and the OP's expectations of being attacked were "trollbaiting". I took it as him trying to express nonchalance from the start since he already figured he would be attacked. Of course how he came across is totally subjective, what should matter is the actual points he made and how he made them.

Don't you see how that's a bad thing? This community has already developed in a way that people expect to be attacked if they make any criticism. Even if it is constructive.

Pretty bad.

Meh, whatever. I don't see why you took apart my response to you just to basically agree with every point with some qualifications. Seems kinda pointless :confused:.

Archived Post
10-08-2009, 03:38 AM
Generic Quit Post Generic Response:

Have an issue? Here's a tissue.

Archived Post
10-08-2009, 03:38 AM
Probably not as many times as you can brown nose someone in one thread... Maybe you should come up for air.. It cant be healthy spending that much time in someones crack..

i'm sorry that i value humor over whining, insults, and bickering.

oh wait.. no i'm not.

Archived Post
10-08-2009, 03:39 AM
So far 2, apparently.

But stop, really, you're making me blush.

Have you ever seen a five foot five, hairy, sasquatch overweight, old man blush?

No?

Ill send pictures. Clothed. With slurpees.

i like blue flavor

Archived Post
10-08-2009, 03:42 AM
i like blue flavor

You are a truly brave man.

I prefer cherry and coke mixed.
Although at times, I have often enjoyed the orange mountain dew.

Archived Post
10-08-2009, 03:49 AM
You are a truly brave man.

I prefer cherry and coke mixed.
Although at times, I have often enjoyed the orange mountain dew.

I <3 Cherry Limeade from T.G.I. Friday's!

Heh, tired of bickering. People are going to do whatever they want regardless.

This is a far more enjoyable conversation :p.

Archived Post
10-08-2009, 03:52 AM
I <3 Cherry Limeade from T.G.I. Friday's!

Heh, tired of bickering. People are going to do whatever they want regardless.

This is a far more enjoyable conversation :p.

For the most part, people come to "I quit threads" and totally ignore the OP proving that nobody really cares about your issues.

Bacon.

Archived Post
10-08-2009, 03:55 AM
I tell everybody everywhere I go everytime when I am leaving and why I am leaving.

Panera Bread after lunch:

"Well, I had a good time here, but I'm bored now. I finished my soup/sandwich combo and drink and there just isn't enough end of lunch hour content for me to stick around. enjoy your short lived meal, loser fanboys!

The Metro:

"LOL!!! You people have to ride three more stops than I do. What a bunch of Metro fanboys! D.C. will fail in less than 3 months. Even Fox News agrees with me."

My home in the morning:

"I'm sick of not having any end of night content so I guess I'll go grind at work again. I'm not resubbing."

Archived Post
10-08-2009, 04:24 AM
Heh, "Pwned"? He basically just agreed with me over and over :p.

Meh, whatever. I don't see why you took apart my response to you just to basically agree with every point with some qualifications. Seems kinda pointless :confused:.

I think you mistake my agreeing to elements of your argument to actually agreeing with you, I only agree with a few key comments, and only with a great many provisos.

Maybe I wasn't clear and should have edited a bit more but for the sake of time I didn't. If that confused you I apologize.

Umm.. you quoted me, I just responded to you afterwards /shrug. There is a difference between people just bashing someone who posted constructive criticism explaining why he was quitting and me giving my opinion why that is bad for the game.

The metaphor actually applies to anything on these forums, you post something expecting a reply/reaction (that goes for all of us) .

How you actually deliver your words is what makes the difference between constructive criticism and trollbaiting. Some posts are divisive (OP-imo) and some more constructive (your own) but they are all targets, a constructive post will get better feedback (note that I have not once ranted/raved about your post, just broken it down and stated my own views in a rational manner) which, had the OP done the same he would probably have had a lot better feedback.

It's not like CO has been an over the top success, so anything that could possibly drive more people away (or keep others from trying it) is bad. Pretty simple.

Oh and I never said I agreed with the OP's points. I just said they were valid.

Lets be honest here, anyone that buys a brand new mmo and expects it to be perfect in every way within it's 1st 6 months of being 'live' is always going to be disappointed as their expectations will never be met, the game obviously isn't for the OP.

Giving a brand new mmo one month before quitting lacks perspective imo.

Me? I love it and forgive it it's issues as I find the fun factor outweighs them.

If anything though this kind of post discourages new players from entering the game which means bad for business.

Also, I disagree that the title of this thread and the OP's expectations of being attacked were "trollbaiting". I took it as him trying to express nonchalance from the start since he already figured he would be attacked. Of course how he came across is totally subjective, what should matter is the actual points he made and how he made them.

Don't you see how that's a bad thing? This community has already developed in a way that people expect to be attacked if they make any criticism. Even if it is constructive.

Pretty bad.


That part is all conjecture and your opinion, we all have our own opinion on what the poster wanted from the thread.

I'm not having a go at you, you seem to be a decent person that wants to believe the OP posted this to help the game, if anything I think you're maybe a little naive but then again you probably think I'm a cynic so so we will have to agree to disagree on that point.

But anyway Pairadox seems to have spearheaded a new direction for the thread (no surprise there) that I would personally like to see evolve so that's my last post about the OP.

:)

Archived Post
10-08-2009, 05:14 AM
I tell everybody everywhere I go everytime when I am leaving and why I am leaving.

<snip>

My home in the morning:

"I'm sick of not having any end of night content so I guess I'll go grind at work again. I'm not resubbing."

My sides are hurting!

On topic:

The OP does have some valid points about content and grouping, however I still can't understand the purpose of these 'I Quit' threads. I've never seen one with startling revelations that might improve the game and even were that the case, wouldn't it be better to post it when it might be relevant? When the devs could potentially address it before the poster feels the need to depart?

Archived Post
10-08-2009, 05:21 AM
On Monster Island... theres a flying NPC called Sigmorph or something along those lines...

If you attack the thing.... you are flagged for PvP in the open world.... Ive been ganking people there for weeks :D

World PvP is a blast


You know I look at this and then I look at that post about pvpers not trying to ruin your day intentionally, and I get conflicted. :)

Open PVP does not belong in this game. That is all o.o!

Oh and farewell, safe travels, OP :)

-C.A.

Archived Post
10-08-2009, 05:33 AM
You know I look at this and then I look at that post about pvpers not trying to ruin your day intentionally, and I get conflicted. :)

Open PVP does not belong in this game. That is all o.o!

Oh and farewell, safe travels, OP :)

-C.A.

Don't be conflicted.

Open PVP WILL breed gankers and general A-holes. It's in their genes to ruin your game. It's what makes the game "fun"!

Archived Post
10-08-2009, 07:48 AM
That's your opinion of course. I always felt that criticism helps MMO's far more then blind fanboy gushing. As long as it is constructive.

The OP's post was rather constructive and even if it contained comments or opinions that have been expressed before, it is still valid feedback. More people expressing certain points makes them more of a priority to developers.

Oh and about "quitting" posts being against the rules, then just report it and move on. People replying just to bash the OP is obviously not good for the game. It makes the person more likely to follow through on quitting, less likely to return at some point down the line, and it may cause potential new players to not buy the game when they come check out the forums to research it.

Of course those are all only possible results of all these absurd attacks but if you enjoy the game and want to see it stick around, why risk alienating others (both current and potential subscribers)?

Sorry, but it's just dumb.

I think you're totally missing the point that #1 the unsubscribe survey is a much more powerful medium to express these thoughts to the devs than the forums, and #2 the bug system is a much more powerful medium to express in-game problems to the devs than the forums.

There is a reason that 'I quit' posts are against forum rules and that's because they are not constructive. There are forums for suggestions and bugs and gameplay issues, but invariably these 'I quit' posts end up in the 'General Gameplay' forum or whatever forum is deemed most popular (ie. has the most readers). The reason for this is self-aggrandizement. The QQ'ing OP generally wants attention for their (sometimes politely worded) tantrum.

I see through this thinly-veiled cry for attention and so should YOU.

So sorry Professor, and sorry OP...but people digressing to this level of whining rather than using the correct channels for your concerns, valid though they may be don't really deserve the consideration of others in the community. Learn to read and post these comments where they're supposed to be posted. Those forum headings aren't just suggestions - they are there to organize the content for people who are actually interested in something other than just kvetching to hear their own voices.

TLDR: There are better ways to get through to the devs. This is just whining at the community.

Archived Post
10-08-2009, 08:04 AM
There is a reason that 'I quit' posts are against forum rules and that's because they are not constructive.

The rules specifically prohibit "Goodbye" threads and ""Doom" threads that offer no actual feedback". In addition, if you do not provide suggestions on how to improve an area of the game, and simply want to voice concerns about things you dislike, then this is the correct forum - not Suggestions.

If you leave the game and post your concerns without specifically saying that you're leaving, then it's in no way against forum rules.

I'm not saying that's what the OP did; I just thought I would mention that. Next time someone wants to post their concerns upon exit, leave out the fact that you're leaving, and make sure your concerns are well-worded, and repetitious or not, it's not against forum rules. :P

Archived Post
10-08-2009, 06:10 PM
PLEASE DON'T COMPLAIN ABOUT GROUPING!!!!! All Cryptic will do is just nerf everybody again:(

Archived Post
10-08-2009, 06:54 PM
For the most part, people come to "I quit threads" and totally ignore the OP proving that nobody really cares about your issues.

Bacon.

As opposed to you who always comes into someone's quit thread to constantly flame and bash them and try and explain why they are be so st00pid and you so uber cool for being bout it bout it when it comes to CO.

Just wondering do you actually play the game or did u just purchase it to have a forum account?

Oh and frisky dingo is teh sux. lame show 4 sure.

Archived Post
10-08-2009, 06:57 PM
There is a reason that 'I quit' posts are against forum rules and that's because they are not constructive. There are forums for suggestions and bugs and gameplay issues, but invariably these 'I quit' posts end up in the 'General Gameplay' forum or whatever forum is deemed most popular (ie. has the most readers). The reason for this is self-aggrandizement. The QQ'ing OP generally wants attention for their (sometimes politely worded) tantrum.

Sure but why not post it? If someones leaving and they just wanna give a final "FU ALL I quitt!" blanket statement out there then why not use the forums.

Afterall if someones quitting the game why would they care about forum rules anyways? Im sure infracton points from Cryptic really dont hurt much when your playing WoW or watching Wheel of fortune now cause you decided to stop playing CO.

Archived Post
10-09-2009, 09:38 AM
First, I know I was going to be attacked, I've read the other feedback/quit posts. I wasn't trollbaiting, rather being realistic about what to expect.

Second, yes most of my complaints are design issues that content won't solve. In my opinion, design issues, if not fixed rapidly, will quickly kill a game. Well, maybe not kill it, but ask EA what they learned from WaR and you have a fine example.

Third, I have a right as a paying customer (yes my subscription isn't up yet) to post feedback on these forums as I see fit. It's not ego. It's not narcissism. It's my *opinion* about the game and the *reasons why* I am leaving. Cryptic should be thankful for every "I quit" thread that contains constructive feedback.

Lastly, hating doesn't solve anything. There was one post where someone mentioned how negativity has become a large part of our culture, and I have to agree. There are many fine examples in this thread alone.

Archived Post
10-09-2009, 09:46 AM
First, I know I was going to be attacked, I've read the other feedback/quit posts. I wasn't trollbaiting, rather being realistic about what to expect.

Second, yes most of my complaints are design issues that content won't solve. In my opinion, design issues, if not fixed rapidly, will quickly kill a game. Well, maybe not kill it, but ask EA what they learned from WaR and you have a fine example.

Third, I have a right as a paying customer (yes my subscription isn't up yet) to post feedback on these forums as I see fit. It's not ego. It's not narcissism. It's my *opinion* about the game and the *reasons why* I am leaving. Cryptic should be thankful for every "I quit" thread that contains constructive feedback.

Lastly, hating doesn't solve anything. There was one post where someone mentioned how negativity has become a large part of our culture, and I have to agree. There are many fine examples in this thread alone.

It's also not narcissistic to bump your own, long abandoned QQ threads, right?

Quitting usually entails going away. Try it.

Archived Post
10-09-2009, 09:56 AM
I totally expect to be ripped apart so go for it...


This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines (http://forums.champions-online.com/announcement.php?f=2&a=6). Thank you, Dionaea

Archived Post
10-09-2009, 10:01 AM
It's also not narcissistic to bump your own, long abandoned QQ threads, right?

Quitting usually entails going away. Try it.

So I don't have the right to post in my own thread now? You sir, are amazing.

Archived Post
10-09-2009, 10:06 AM
So I don't have the right to post in my own thread now? You sir, are amazing.



And they love you. Whoo, do they love you. You're their Fonzie

Archived Post
10-09-2009, 10:42 AM
It's also not narcissistic to bump your own, long abandoned QQ threads, right?

Quitting usually entails going away. Try it.

You're bumping it too.. because.. you think your opinion matters to him? As far as he's concerned (from reading a bit of the back and forth) you're just a loyal bumper who is going to continuously try to bash your ideas into his head. He clearly has no intention of listening to you or allowing your ideas to sink in, so really, all you're doing is bumping his "long abandoned QQ thread" with him.

Not taking sides, I just think it's silly when people get in arguments in threads and resort to "lawl ur just bumpin cuz u think ur speshul" when that's clearly why the other person continues the conversation as well. (To be fair, everyone on this board thinks they're special otherwise no one would be posting any of their ideas and the forums would be a ghost town.) He's not going to listen to you. If you really want him to go away, stop posting responses to him and trying to get the last word.

Back on topic..

Valid concerns, very much over done but still valid. I do think that as much as people hate the "I quit" threads, they do show what the major concerns are with their population. They do get read and if new concerns start popping up, they get written down and discussed internally. Just because a GM doesn't respond to a thread, doesn't mean they ignored it completely.

At least your thread wasn't "Lawlz I quitz" and actually had feedback.. even if it was repetitive and over done in many other threads.

Archived Post
10-09-2009, 11:18 AM
While I agree with most of your points OP, a couple of things I would like to point out...


4) Open Frameworks - their design always leads to FOTM, they can never be balanced. Sure some people play concept, and thats fine, but most just use FOTM powers and there will be and endless nerf/buff cycle because of it.

FOTM's can happily exist with closed frameworks...as anyone can attest to who spent any time playing WoW.

Furthermore, the open frameworks are a unique aspect of this game. Taking that out, will destroy it's character of this game entirely. So this may come down to your playstyle doesn't agree with a core mechanic of CO. Which is fine...but don't expect them to change it because you don't like it. And I hope they never do, IMO.

6) Balancing - Every patch they fix things but they make other things worse. They knee jerked the launch by turning up the difficulty and so far have only attempted to slow everything down.

I think you raised an interesting point.

Balancing particular around arena PvP, is a brass ring that the devs will never achieve. And not without the expense of changing core PvE abilities. Instead they should focus on limiting some powers effectiveness with player characters...like have stringent diminishing returns on CC's and having Teleports break on player AoE's. As well the player should understand once they step into the PvP ring...everything is fair game. And either should roll a toon for PvP or find a work around with one they got.

And balancing around PvE...it would of been nice if they had something in between before and after game release. Instead it went from the sublime to the ridiculous at likely expense of many of their paying customers.