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Archived Post
10-05-2009, 08:22 PM
Im rather dissapointed about the celestial powe set. Not that its bad, if anything it looks overpowered (NERF INCOMING) But, im dissapointed because sorcery is gonna be dead now. Now while sorcery has much holds and other support, celestial will control the support population now. While I am considering retconing to celestial once its out, so will half the CO population. Everyone wants the new power so ya. I like being unique, I black sheep I guess. But I dont liek sticking with fads and for the first 2 weeks celestial is out to many people will use celestial. BTW, sidequestion, the images for the celestial powerset are white, does this mean we might finally be able to switch the power of our colors to white so we dont have to deal with a light shade of blue or yellow for close to white?

Archived Post
10-05-2009, 08:30 PM
Im rather dissapointed about the celestial powe set. Not that its bad, if anything it looks overpowered (NERF INCOMING) But, im dissapointed because sorcery is gonna be dead now. Now while sorcery has much holds and other support, celestial will control the support population now. While I am considering retconing to celestial once its out, so will half the CO population. Everyone wants the new power so ya. I like being unique, I black sheep I guess. But I dont liek sticking with fads and for the first 2 weeks celestial is out to many people will use celestial. BTW, sidequestion, the images for the celestial powerset are white, does this mean we might finally be able to switch the power of our colors to white so we dont have to deal with a light shade of blue or yellow for close to white?

Just imagine an entire PVP team of celestial users... yup, nerf bound before it is even out of the gate.

Archived Post
10-05-2009, 08:33 PM
I dont like sorcery because of the sigils >.>
I have never seen a super hero whip out sigils before. they seem very fantasy ish.

Archived Post
10-05-2009, 08:33 PM
Im rather dissapointed about the celestial powe set. Not that its bad, if anything it looks overpowered (NERF INCOMING) But, im dissapointed because sorcery is gonna be dead now. Now while sorcery has much holds and other support, celestial will control the support population now. While I am considering retconing to celestial once its out, so will half the CO population. Everyone wants the new power so ya. I like being unique, I black sheep I guess. But I dont liek sticking with fads and for the first 2 weeks celestial is out to many people will use celestial. BTW, sidequestion, the images for the celestial powerset are white, does this mean we might finally be able to switch the power of our colors to white so we dont have to deal with a light shade of blue or yellow for close to white?

we have not seen anything about it yet but 3 abilties....

Archived Post
10-05-2009, 08:36 PM
I dont like sorcery because of the sigils >.>
I have never seen a super hero whip out sigils before. they seem very fantasy ish.


Eh, both Marvel and DC have sorcerers / wizards / mystics.

Doctor Strange is uber-powerful, and in DC there's a bunch of sorcerers around.

There's a good deal genre-mixing in most superhero 'universes': Fantasy, sci-fi, kung-fu wuxia, etc.

Archived Post
10-05-2009, 08:39 PM
Imbue alone will be nerf worthy.

Having a ranged end builder that can heal. Yup, that will get nerfed if not just removed and made into a dimensional damage only builder like every other set.

Or require a 2 point advantage for the heal.

I know I can't think of a reason to take any end builder except the celesial builder really.....the heal ability is just huge, even if it's only a small amount.

I'm thinking of changing my tanks end builder to celestial once it's out.

Archived Post
10-05-2009, 08:40 PM
yes but all 3 abilities, are either damage or heal, then buff or debuff, they always have a damage and heal. Thats the pattern and so far on most of the celestial posts I read. Everyone is like hella stoked about the set and they all want to go to it. And as for the sigils, there fun, but yes, I agree, whipping out sigils is pretty weird but the set is fun. Then again I feel like Im playing a fantasy mmo once I start doing the same patterns on enemies for ultimate buff stay alive damage stuff. Just damage resistance buff myself, pop an electrical sigil on enemy, summon pet, and debuff enemy then hold block while sigil and pet kills them. Charge an atatck here and there yes but I have to admit, I jsut realized this, as I type how my build works, it sounds stupid, now I really want a retcon.

Archived Post
10-05-2009, 08:40 PM
I dont like sorcery because of the sigils >.>
I have never seen a super hero whip out sigils before. they seem very fantasy ish.

You'd be hard pressed to find a super hero comic/series where a "sorcery-ish" character doesn't pop up at least once, even if not a big part of the show/series.

Archived Post
10-05-2009, 08:43 PM
Personally, I'm going to wait till I know something other than vagueries before I make my judgement on the set.

People would scream nerf even if the set advertised itself as deliberately gimped. So I'll wait till it's out before deciding.

Archived Post
10-05-2009, 08:43 PM
Can't self heal with the end builder and you only get energy if there's damage to be healed...oh yeah nerf worthy...

Archived Post
10-05-2009, 08:46 PM
Just imagine an entire PVP team of celestial users... yup, nerf bound before it is even out of the gate.

I'm still of the opinion that Celestial's double duty utility powers are going to neither heal nor damage very well, but will most likely be cheap to throw energy-wise.

There will be a price for all this usefulness, and I'm betting it's going to be magnitude. When Rebuke clocks in at the damage of Force Blast, only without the KB, I think a lot of people are going to be saying "Man, Celestial sucks."

You may save yourself having to pick up a damage power and a heal power, but you'll need that power slot for things like Imbue and Illuminate.

And so far I haven't seen any way to heal *yourself* in the set, save using Illuminate as a toggle with the listed advantage, unless you can cast Illuminate on yourself without it. I'm thinking Mend will simply be a reverse Bleed, and it's not going to save you in combat.

If anything, straight Celestial looks to be rather underpowered for solo work so far...but then again we've only seen the low level stuff.

Now a PvP team? That might be different...but how's that different from a PvP team of 5 now with Regen and Psionic Healing?

Archived Post
10-05-2009, 08:46 PM
How do you not see the overpoweredness in it. EX the lameness of the sorcerer energy builder, it has a very slight change to have a half second root on the enemy which I have never gotten. The celestial builder if you want can heal you, that, then give u energy, and who cares if it doesnt give u energy if u are fully healed. I would never try to heal myself if I was at full health, lol. And then when you atack the enemy itll do the same amount as any builder. So I can actually fiind a use for the builder

Archived Post
10-05-2009, 08:47 PM
Sorcery will be just fine. Tons of Damage dealing frameworks co-exist, why can't 2 support frameworks do it?

Archived Post
10-05-2009, 08:47 PM
Can't self heal with the end builder and you only get energy if there's damage to be healed...oh yeah nerf worthy...

The damage from end builders is TINY. So, if given the choice, I would rather have my end builder be able to heal someone if they are damaged instead of doing meaningless damage. If nobody is hurt, hit the enemy.

Not like someone has to be hurt to build end with it.

Archived Post
10-05-2009, 08:49 PM
Having a ranged end builder that can heal.

It's not different than Psionic Healing taps, if anything it'll be less powerful than that. It'll be good for people to have an alternative to Psionic Healing if for some reason they don't like to use charged powers, etc.

Archived Post
10-05-2009, 08:50 PM
Can't self heal with the end builder and you only get energy if there's damage to be healed...oh yeah nerf worthy...

What can we say people are ****ing stupid, they scream nerf at the toothless paraplegic laying on the ground in the arenas trying to gum you to death... oh wait I mean "Non EB melee characters" my bad.

Gotta love the interwebs

Archived Post
10-05-2009, 08:51 PM
You'd be hard pressed to find a super hero comic/series where a "sorcery-ish" character doesn't pop up at least once, even if not a big part of the show/series.

The Next Men!

(sorry, I couldn't resist the challenge. I don't even know if I'm right or not, heh).

Archived Post
10-05-2009, 08:53 PM
Personally, I'm going to wait till I know something other than vagueries before I make my judgement on the set.

People would scream nerf even if the set advertised itself as deliberately gimped. So I'll wait till it's out before deciding.

Me too. It's entirely possible that the amount of healing provided will be tiny without major investment in PRE (for example.)

Archived Post
10-05-2009, 08:56 PM
The sets popularity and over-powerfulness will really depend on the numbers. If it has the same or better damage and generates the same or better end, then it will be better than the others mechanically and will be the end builder on most builds.

Personally I think is should have close to the same damage output as the other EBs, but have the lowest end building mechanics as it was built to be used in support role and has a dual function that the other EBs really do not. All other EB's tend to have a small chance of some extra small effect triggering on the first shot only and advantages that bump to a possible trigger on each shot.

As for the other powers the numbers matter even more. IE if the charge attack does the same damage as any of the other charge attacks ( with the same charge time) then it will be over powered as it would effectively be like having two powers for the price of one. Unless of course it cost a lot more end or had a cool down (unlikely).

I will hold on judging the dev team and the power set until i get some solid numbers from either public test, dev posts, or live. i just hope it does not end up like the DK tank issue in wow (way to many and the old tank classes being sub-par, mind you this was before i quit so might be different now).

PS
My main is sorcery / darkness/ supernatural. I like a lot of the theme and some of the power mechanics in sorcery and am really waiting on the "quality of Life" revamp the devs promised it in their Dev Chat.

Archived Post
10-05-2009, 08:58 PM
How do you not see the overpoweredness in it. EX the lameness of the sorcerer energy builder, it has a very slight change to have a half second root on the enemy which I have never gotten. The celestial builder if you want can heal you, that, then give u energy, and who cares if it doesnt give u energy if u are fully healed. I would never try to heal myself if I was at full health, lol. And then when you atack the enemy itll do the same amount as any builder. So I can actually fiind a use for the builder

The builder cannot self heal why is this so hard to understand? The only time it will heal AND give energy is if your target is not at full health. The only way to build energy with it is to either target an enemy or healing an injured ally. Finally, there have been no numbers released on how much damage or healing these skills will do so it really is a little early to be calling for nerfs.

Archived Post
10-05-2009, 09:08 PM
The Next Men!

(sorry, I couldn't resist the challenge. I don't even know if I'm right or not, heh).

Hey, there's a reason I said hard pressed, and not impossible. I knew somebody would take my words as a challenge ;)

Archived Post
10-05-2009, 09:14 PM
Now a PvP team? That might be different...but how's that different from a PvP team of 5 now with Regen and Psionic Healing?

Regen heals, Psionic healing heals... it doesn't inflict damage as well. Mind you the powers are not self heals. Before in PVP if there are more than one healer. Odds are it is going to a stalemate unless you have people just blindly charging in and dying. Why? Because one side has all DPS with no real heals and the other side lacks the DPS needed to finish the deal. With this new power set it changes the dynamics that are basically set. No longer will to many healers hinder the team.

Getting swarmed? Fall back with TP and energy build up while healing someone as they do the same.

Archived Post
10-05-2009, 09:20 PM
Two healers on a team means you don't have the DPS to kill the team without the healers, did I step into bizarro world or miss-understand you? It's not like you have to build your entire powerset around healing to be competent at it. You can still dish out some good damage, even with a couple healing powers slotted.

Archived Post
10-05-2009, 09:40 PM
I dont like sorcery because of the sigils >.>
I have never seen a super hero whip out sigils before. they seem very fantasy ish.

Dr. Fate, the big DC Sorcerer huge into the Ankh, his solo run and as a part of Justice League always with the sigils.

Plus he looks just awesome.

Archived Post
10-05-2009, 10:08 PM
We shall see, if anything I bet all of or most of Celestial power will be so low in damage. They did say it is a primary healing powerset.

It sounds powerful now though.

Archived Post
10-05-2009, 10:17 PM
I'm really not getting how people think the healing portion of an energy builder is going to somehow make people unstoppable killing machines. o.O

Archived Post
10-05-2009, 10:39 PM
I dont like sorcery because of the sigils >.>
I have never seen a super hero whip out sigils before. they seem very fantasy ish.
Dr. Fate
Dr. Strange
Zatanna
Mister E
the Phantom Stranger

Archived Post
10-05-2009, 10:43 PM
I'm not wildly enthusiastic on the way Celestial's powers get "doubled up", unless the damage dealing aspect is really quite toned down, or the healing is substantially weaker than the other powers that already do it.

To be blunt, I think Cryptic really need to fix the already extant healing powers (and start giving points for their use in group events!) before introducing yet another set for the same purpose.

Archived Post
10-05-2009, 11:09 PM
Has anyone considered the unnecessary amounts of AGGRO a Celestial player will probably pull? I sort of feel bad for them if Cryptic doesn't address the Healer = Gang ***** effect healing team mates has.

Archived Post
10-05-2009, 11:40 PM
Erm. It's a bit silly to cry nerf before you actually know how a powerset works or how effective it is. The Celestial set might very well do fairly low damage but be good at healing, for instance.

Massive assumptions for the lose.

Archived Post
10-05-2009, 11:45 PM
Dr. Fate
Dr. Strange
Zatanna
Mister E
the Phantom Stranger

Sorry, gotta call you on this. When did any of the above (except Dr Strange) use explicit sigils that hung around in the air as a static effect? Dr. Fate could have done so at some point... that wouldn't be out of keeping honestly, but I've never seen it. Zatanna Zatara chants in backward English to focus her magic, and doesn't use sigils or signs, not even in the very brief retcon wherein she was an Atlantean of Arion's line. Mister E just manipulates time and doesn't use sigils. The Phantom Stranger just uses will-based (presumably angelic) magic with no actual invocations, thus no sigils.

One out of five, possibly two out of five. But the last three, I really don't think so. Can you cite storylines by any chance?

Archived Post
10-06-2009, 12:07 AM
Zatanna does favor... Props... In her performances... :o

Archived Post
10-06-2009, 02:07 AM
Sorry, gotta call you on this. When did any of the above (except Dr Strange) use explicit sigils that hung around in the air as a static effect? Dr. Fate could have done so at some point... that wouldn't be out of keeping honestly, but I've never seen it. Zatanna Zatara chants in backward English to focus her magic, and doesn't use sigils or signs, not even in the very brief retcon wherein she was an Atlantean of Arion's line. Mister E just manipulates time and doesn't use sigils. The Phantom Stranger just uses will-based (presumably angelic) magic with no actual invocations, thus no sigils.

One out of five, possibly two out of five. But the last three, I really don't think so. Can you cite storylines by any chance?

Dr Fate did at several intervals...

Most of them also used circles at some point or another as well...using the Stranger as an example isn't fair as he isn't allowed to interfere most times only advise...

Heck even Loki uses sigils in the Thor comics on occasion for various tricksy items...

Just because you haven't imagined something a given way doesn't mean it doesn't happen... :p

Archived Post
10-06-2009, 02:21 AM
I don't see how this power set will do anything to sorcery users

Sorcery has a lot more flexibility than Arcane Vitality. And Sorc EB may be lame, but who cares? I haven't used it for ages ;)

Archived Post
10-06-2009, 04:33 AM
Sorry, gotta call you on this. When did any of the above (except Dr Strange) use explicit sigils that hung around in the air as a static effect? Dr. Fate could have done so at some point... that wouldn't be out of keeping honestly, but I've never seen it. Zatanna Zatara chants in backward English to focus her magic, and doesn't use sigils or signs, not even in the very brief retcon wherein she was an Atlantean of Arion's line. Mister E just manipulates time and doesn't use sigils. The Phantom Stranger just uses will-based (presumably angelic) magic with no actual invocations, thus no sigils.

One out of five, possibly two out of five. But the last three, I really don't think so. Can you cite storylines by any chance?

Any use of any symbol, diagram, letter, pictogram, OR WORD ... is using "sigils".

So. Zatanna? All that sdrawkcab gnikaeps stuff? Technically, "use of sigils" ... especially if you favor the Hebrew theory-of-origin for the word (סגולה [segulah], meaning "word, action or item of spiritual effect"), which makes especial sense for ANY character whose magic seems to obey Kabbalist rules and theories ... which almost all of them do, since the Kabbalah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabbalah) is pretty much the root of our Western view of what magic is, or isn't.

And following that logic ...

Tracing a circular motion with a wand, or for that matter, tracing the form of ANY shape with it? Yes, that is actually the "use of a sigil". The sigil does not have to have any permanent, affixed form in order to be "a sigil".

Furthermore, even the use of spoken words in order to focus and enact a spell or other magical working, would constitute "use of sigils". The ringing of a chime or bell, the chanting of a sorcerous choir, the specific order in which a group of candles is lit (especially if they are arranged in a predefined pattern) ... all these things are the "use of sigils".

Archived Post
10-06-2009, 04:54 AM
Sorry, gotta call you on this. When did any of the above (except Dr Strange) use explicit sigils that hung around in the air as a static effect? Dr. Fate could have done so at some point... that wouldn't be out of keeping honestly, but I've never seen it. Zatanna Zatara chants in backward English to focus her magic, and doesn't use sigils or signs, not even in the very brief retcon wherein she was an Atlantean of Arion's line. Mister E just manipulates time and doesn't use sigils. The Phantom Stranger just uses will-based (presumably angelic) magic with no actual invocations, thus no sigils.

One out of five, possibly two out of five. But the last three, I really don't think so. Can you cite storylines by any chance?

Strange uses sigils and similiar effects a lot, as does Fate. The rest not so much, but as the good Dr's are some of the most iconic of supermages, its not surprising to see their styles used.


Also, Destroyer looks a lot like Dr Fate these days.

Archived Post
10-06-2009, 05:30 AM
we have not seen anything about it yet but 3 abilties....

shh... logic has no place here.

why don't we wait til celestial is up on the PTS before making wild assumptions?

oh damn.. more logic.. sorries ;o

Archived Post
10-06-2009, 08:49 AM
Any use of any symbol, diagram, letter, pictogram, OR WORD ... is using "sigils".

Sigils are not the same as symbols, which words indeed are. Sigils are drawn, carved, or otherwise externally manifested as part of the components needed in a ritual. Nice sophistry though. ;)[/QUOTE]

Archived Post
10-06-2009, 08:51 AM
Just because you haven't imagined something a given way doesn't mean it doesn't happen... :p

And just because one is capable of imagining something, does not make it so either. :D

Archived Post
10-06-2009, 08:52 AM
Just imagine an entire PVP team of celestial users... yup, nerf bound before it is even out of the gate.

I imagine Nullifying Punch would be really useful against that team.

Archived Post
10-06-2009, 08:58 AM
Having a ranged end builder that can heal. Yup, that will get nerfed if not just removed and made into a dimensional damage only builder like every other set.I wonder how many times and how many bold letters I'll have to use before people get it.

RADIANCE.

CANNOT.

HEAL.

YOU.

Only teammates.

For ****'s sake.

Archived Post
10-06-2009, 08:58 AM
Sigils are not the same as symbols, which words indeed are. Sigils are drawn, carved, or otherwise externally manifested as part of the components needed in a ritual. Nice sophistry though. ;)
It's not sophistry, it's etymology:

The term sigil derives from the Latin sigillum, meaning "seal", though it may also be related to the Hebrew סגולה (segulah meaning "word, action or item of spiritual effect"). A sigil may have an abstract, pictorial or semi-abstract form.
(Wikipedia)

2 : a sign, word, or device held to have occult power in astrology or magic
(Merriam-Webster)

Archived Post
10-06-2009, 09:01 AM
I'm really not getting how people think the healing portion of an energy builder is going to somehow make people unstoppable killing machines. o.O

This. The heal is probably going to be incredibly low and will only be a single target heal so I don't see the big deal.

Archived Post
10-06-2009, 09:17 AM
Im rather dissapointed about the celestial powe set. Not that its bad, if anything it looks overpowered (NERF INCOMING) But, im dissapointed because sorcery is gonna be dead now. Now while sorcery has much holds and other support, celestial will control the support population now. While I am considering retconing to celestial once its out, so will half the CO population. Everyone wants the new power so ya. I like being unique, I black sheep I guess. But I dont liek sticking with fads and for the first 2 weeks celestial is out to many people will use celestial. BTW, sidequestion, the images for the celestial powerset are white, does this mean we might finally be able to switch the power of our colors to white so we dont have to deal with a light shade of blue or yellow for close to white?

It.
Has.
Not.
Even.
Been.
Released.
Yet...

Get a grip and wait til you see how it actually plays.

Archived Post
10-06-2009, 09:40 AM
Skarn's Bane > Celestial :)

Archived Post
10-06-2009, 09:46 AM
Skarn's Bane > Celestial :)And pretty much any AoE > Skarn's Bane.

Archived Post
10-06-2009, 09:50 AM
It will remove all those nice celestial effects, that was my point.

Archived Post
10-06-2009, 09:50 AM
Depends on if the buff stripping is only applied at the end of the maintain or not - if it is, it'll never strip anything. :P

Archived Post
10-06-2009, 09:55 AM
Im rather dissapointed about the celestial powe set. Not that its bad, if anything it looks overpowered (NERF INCOMING) But, im dissapointed because sorcery is gonna be dead now. Now while sorcery has much holds and other support, celestial will control the support population now.

You seem to be under the delusion that Sorcery exists only as a support set. It's a quite good offensive set as well...

Archived Post
10-06-2009, 09:55 AM
It's a quite good offensive set as well...Aside from Sigils of the Primal Storm and Sigils of Arcane Runes, how do you figure?

Archived Post
10-06-2009, 09:57 AM
Why do I get the feeling that some people here are thinking that the Celestial powers will do damage and heal at the same time? For example, there seems to be a misconception that using the end builder on an enemy will do damage to them while healing you or even that you can shoot yourself in the face for some quick healing.

Archived Post
10-06-2009, 10:04 AM
Erm. It's a bit silly to cry nerf before you actually know how a powerset works or how effective it is. The Celestial set might very well do fairly low damage but be good at healing, for instance.

Massive assumptions for the lose.

Didn't you know all these guys work for the Dev team?

Archived Post
10-06-2009, 10:17 AM
Aside from Sigils of the Primal Storm and Sigils of Arcane Runes, how do you figure?

Good menagerie of pets, nice AOE attack and, yes, those sigils. Don't have much trouble plowing through content 3 or more levels higher than me...

Archived Post
10-06-2009, 10:19 AM
You mean the pets that do less damage per swing than some tier 0 powers?

You mean the AoE that has such an inordinately high cost that unless you're End/Rec you can barely get off 5 ticks, at which point it's worse than any other breath unless you're facing 10+ targets?

Archived Post
10-06-2009, 10:50 AM
You mean the pets that do less damage per swing than some tier 0 powers?

You do know they get better as you add points, right? And given that they're dealing damage independantly of my own attacks and continue to deal damage when I'm held, a little damage on them goes a long way. They're constant DOTs that can also do a bit of off-tanking for me on a big pull.

You mean the AoE that has such an inordinately high cost that unless you're End/Rec you can barely get off 5 ticks, at which point it's worse than any other breath unless you're facing 10+ targets?

Funny, gets more than 5 for me and I'm int/pre.... But, I don't completely ignore end just because int and pre are my primary focus...

Archived Post
10-06-2009, 01:28 PM
It's not sophistry, it's etymology:

The term sigil derives from the Latin sigillum, meaning "seal", though it may also be related to the Hebrew סגולה (segulah meaning "word, action or item of spiritual effect"). A sigil may have an abstract, pictorial or semi-abstract form.
(Wikipedia)

2 : a sign, word, or device held to have occult power in astrology or magic
(Merriam-Webster)

Erm. The etymology of the word sigil has nothing to do with spoken words, nor does the dictionary definition. Both refer to written words. Note that a seal isn't spoken, but is carved/embossed/written etc. It can indeed be abstract, but is never solely spoken.

The more esoteric a word's use, the more likely basic etymology and dictionary definitions will mislead you. In this case, we're speaking of a sigil used in magic, e.g. the ones in game and in comics, which are externally manifested, and generally pulsating with subtle energies. Again, Dr. Strange uses these all the time, and it's perfectly in character for Dr Fate to have done so though I don't recall any instances thereof. Zatanna, Mr. E, and the Phantom Stranger however don't use sigils to my knowledge.

Archived Post
10-06-2009, 01:35 PM
Didn't you know all these guys work for the Dev team?

Ohhh, gotcha. Well then, why are they complaining about the powerset when they could just rebalance it? :D

Archived Post
10-06-2009, 03:03 PM
Forgot all about Jason Blood i.e. The Demon Etrigan, and along his line there is Morgana as well. Also can't forget Hellblazer, John Constantine uses sigils and circles all the time.

The Amazons use sigils to cast life into the globs of clay to make their children, i.e. Wonder Woman

I do know Zatana if she is doing big magic has used charms and sigils for that work, her more mundane spells she doesn't use anything.

This has been shown in the comics and cartoons for all these characters. For most it seems the theme is simple spells do not require anything but larger spells need sigils.

Archived Post
10-06-2009, 03:22 PM
Forgot all about Jason Blood i.e. The Demon Etrigan, and along his line there is Morgana as well. Also can't forget Hellblazer, John Constantine uses sigils and circles all the time.

The Amazons use sigils to cast life into the globs of clay to make their children, i.e. Wonder Woman

I do know Zatana if she is doing big magic has used charms and sigils for that work, her more mundane spells she doesn't use anything.

This has been shown in the comics and cartoons for all these characters. For most it seems the theme is simple spells do not require anything but larger spells need sigils.

Jason Blood and John Constantine, sure. I wasn't suggesting that plenty of comics characters don't use sigils, just that Zatanna, Mr. E, and the Phantom Stranger aren't among them. Tim Hunter (post Names of Magic), Doctor Occult, Jennifer Morgan, Amethyst, Mordru, Arion, Shazam, and many others regularly use sigils - and that's just on the DC side.

Archived Post
10-06-2009, 03:33 PM
What about This Little Piggy?

Archived Post
10-06-2009, 03:51 PM
What about This Little Piggy?

It went to market.

Archived Post
10-06-2009, 05:25 PM
Why do I get the feeling that some people here are thinking that the Celestial powers will do damage and heal at the same time? For example, there seems to be a misconception that using the end builder on an enemy will do damage to them while healing you or even that you can shoot yourself in the face for some quick healing.

Yep there's only one power in the set that has the ability to do this and that's only if you get the advantage for it. Even then I think it's random on who it selects to heal not sure if it will work if you're not teamed up.

Archived Post
10-06-2009, 06:44 PM
Im rather dissapointed about the celestial powe set. Not that its bad, if anything it looks overpowered (NERF INCOMING) But, im dissapointed because sorcery is gonna be dead now. Now while sorcery has much holds and other support, celestial will control the support population now. While I am considering retconing to celestial once its out, so will half the CO population. Everyone wants the new power so ya. I like being unique, I black sheep I guess. But I dont liek sticking with fads and for the first 2 weeks celestial is out to many people will use celestial. BTW, sidequestion, the images for the celestial powerset are white, does this mean we might finally be able to switch the power of our colors to white so we dont have to deal with a light shade of blue or yellow for close to white?

The only ones that would switch would be the ones that wanted to play a healer class. But sorcery would still be viable for its buffs and other support tools. A player that is a healer should have some buffs. There is no way that you could prove that sorcery would never be used by anyone. Besides what about those that wanted to play a mystic summoner. The use of any set will be the player themselves.

Archived Post
10-07-2009, 01:01 AM
You mean the pets that do less damage per swing than some tier 0 powers?
Dunno yours, but my zombies killed the Tough MV shark from Lemuria in a matter of seconds, with me blasting for the shake of doing something. It was 35 and I was 32 ;)

I can kill stuff at a consedireble speed. Not as fast as my PA friend, but fast enough if you dont forget I builded my char as a support and not DPS

Archived Post
10-07-2009, 01:18 AM
Personaly what people seem to forget about sorcery...much of the time is that sorcery is perfect for mixing with other sets. It's versatile, and while celestial seems to me like a one trick pony thus far, sorcery makes it's mark in the summoning catagory. Which is what it really was supposed to do in the first place. Summoning sigils, creatures and outer worldly powers.

Celestial seems more support, but a different support. Direct healing or mending of wounds, or harming. While thats all well and good, truthfully Celestial has shown 6 powers, which essentialy remind me of the same style of power. Sorcery on the other hand is a bag of tricks.

Sorcery is our situational friend. There is something for any situation in it. It mixes well with other frameworks (Fireball anyone...yes...your Champion can be a DnD geek too!)

Sigils, while they might not seem horrifyingly heroic, and sometimes just odd, remind me of when Doc Strange summons the Mists of Wendigore (sp) Or the Bonds of Citerak (Sp) He essentialy is bringing something into being. Sigils are a concept I like. Mainly because the Sorcerer becomes the strategic player. Not the point and click player. They have to think, and you know what, they should.

Will sorcery be effected. Sure, but so will all sets. A new toy is a new toy.

But Sorcery will remain one of the most effective situational powers ever.

Archived Post
10-07-2009, 01:45 AM
*sips tea*

The sky is falling, the sky is falling.

Archived Post
10-07-2009, 02:05 AM
You'd be hard pressed to find a super hero comic/series where a "sorcery-ish" character doesn't pop up at least once, even if not a big part of the show/series.

Superman if I can recall constantly got his butt kicked by magic using people.

Archived Post
10-07-2009, 01:01 PM
Superman if I can recall constantly got his butt kicked by magic using people.

True, to the point where his two weaknesses were explicitly defined as kryptonite and magic.

Archived Post
10-07-2009, 01:10 PM
Back to the nerf. Of course it will be. Haven't you relized the development cycle is imagine, build, play, nerf.

Erm. It's a bit silly to cry nerf before you actually know how a powerset works or how effective it is. The Celestial set might very well do fairly low damage but be good at healing, for instance.

Massive assumptions for the lose.
And that will still put it one up on several powers.

Archived Post
10-07-2009, 01:16 PM
SPeculation for nerfs might be a little pre-mature here...we have no idea what the #'s will be for damage and heals with the new powerset...