Reaper's Caress as bad as I think it is?

[Archived Post]

I'm trying to find a reason for this power. It does worse damage than the energy builder. It's much slower, even with the "free" 4th attack.

[Archived Post]

I'm trying to find a reason for this power. It does worse damage than the energy builder. It's much slower, even with the "free" 4th attack.
it makes a bleed effect at 3rd press in combo.
if done again it makes another bleed that stacks with the first.

it used to be able to cone with vicious vigor, now V-V is useless cause all it does it make you enraged after you try to stack the bleed.

woopity freakin do.
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[Archived Post]

umm, it does not do less than an end builder, i dont know why you'd blantantly lie like that.

reapers caress is a single blade attack with bleed, to synergize with reapers embrace.

it may do little damage, but it also takes very little end.

it may not be great for pvp due to time and dps, but it's fine for PVE, expecially for bleed stacking to get phat reapers embrace hits

Your Reapers Embrace Hits for 2200
Your Target Ruptures for 500
Your Target Ruptures for 500
Your Target Ruptures for 500

[Archived Post]

I didn't notice the bleed affect. Which is why I thought this power was bad.

And gfcmathew, I was not blatantly lying. But ride your high horse.

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umm, it does not do less than an end builder, i dont know why you'd blantantly lie like that.

reapers caress is a single blade attack with bleed, to synergize with reapers embrace.

it may do little damage, but it also takes very little end.

it may not be great for pvp due to time and dps, but it's fine for PVE, expecially for bleed stacking to get phat reapers embrace hits

Your Reapers Embrace Hits for 2200
Your Target Ruptures for 500
Your Target Ruptures for 500
Your Target Ruptures for 500
I doubt she's "BLATANTLY LYING".
let's not be so... I dunno, rash and mean?
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what she is , is mistaken.
She's also open to answers because she's asking questions.
Hopefully she can use ours.
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[Archived Post]

no...it was a blantant lie...if you honestly believe reapers caress did less damage than an energy builder, you do not understand the base 10 number system, or you cant read.


post the combat log of a energy builder, and then post the combat log of reapers caress spam if you want to say she was not blantantly lieing

not being rash, im being real. so many post on these forums complaing about x and y, when the posters dont spend more than 10 seconds when coming to their conclusion that "reapers caress does less damage than an ed builder!"

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no...it was a blantant lie...if you honestly believe reapers caress did less damage than an energy builder, you do not understand the base 10 number system, or you cant read.


post the combat log of a energy builder, and then post the combat log of reapers caress spam if you want to say she was not blantantly lieing

not being rash, im being real. so many post on these forums complaing about x and y, when the posters dont spend more than 10 seconds when coming to their conclusion that "reapers caress does less damage than an ed builder!"
which is foolish and wrong, but not lying.
to lie to have to know what she knows, and know that she's being intentionally misleading... which youc an't possibly know, and if you do, you need to get a job with Miss Cleo. Lots of money in the psychic-biz mang.

generally it's good manners to not assume a persons intentions, especially when it's not necessary.

It's not like she got on claiming she knew everything about caress and said we're all wrong for thinking it does anything. No, she assumed based on her experience with it's DPS (an opinion based on non-scientific experience) that it was pointless. She's wrong. But until anyone knows that she knows wasn't true before she said it and contradicted what she knew on purpose to be misleading, or gain something... or even just cause she is a compulsive liar and can't help it... then it's an assumption of yours that she's a liar as much as it's an assumption of hers that it does less damage than the end builder.
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well this topic is, dead.
sorry for the insults OP, but it's the internet.
still, try to test these things out more thoroughly, you did come of a little foolish... but I for one don't think you're "blatantly lying"... just... wrong, and I hope you'll pleasantly find out that it's not that bad a power. It's certainly not great though. You'd be right on that point. it does much less as a single application than most tier-0 powers do to be sure. The bleeding and extra hit on the the third strike make up for it some.
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[Archived Post]

is ok if i switch from liar to stupid?

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OK, now that I know Caress has a bleed, if I use Scything Blade on the same mob, do the bleeds stack, or does only one of them work? I'm trying to figure out what powers I should take.

[Archived Post]

OK, now that I know Caress has a bleed, if I use Scything Blade on the same mob, do the bleeds stack, or does only one of them work? I'm trying to figure out what powers I should take.

they do stack, but only if you use your scything first, then use your caress combos. Scything won't stack with it's self for any other bleed effect. I know why they did it, they allowed it to once and it was so freakin OP... you could drop guys many times higher than you with a few spams and then run away and time would do the rest while 4 bleeds applied in 4 seconds would tear that 'mother up.

so, if you get enough endurance:
scything
caress
caress
caress
and you have 2 strong bleeds.

do caress 3 more times and you have 3 and so on.

put "swallowtail cut" on scything and you have a bleed that's proportionate to any enemy's health up to villain grade NPC, then the standard bleeds from caress go on after.

However, when you use embrace later on (as the game now stands), you can only "rupture" a certain number of bleeds and only for a set cap of damage.
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[Archived Post]

Just a quick question on the bleeds. If you rank up the powers do the bleeds also increase or are they a set value no matter the rank of the power? I would test this myself but I am not high enough lvl to check and to poor to respec. Thanks for any info.

[Archived Post]

I'm trying to find a reason for this power. It does worse damage than the energy builder. It's much slower, even with the "free" 4th attack.

Reaper's Caress doesn't do less damage than the energy builder so long as you do combos.

The first hit is similar to the energy builder, the second hit does a bit more damage, the third hit actually hits twice and both hits are almost 3x the damage of the first hit, then it also leaves the bleed effect.

[Archived Post]

Just a quick question on the bleeds. If you rank up the powers do the bleeds also increase or are they a set value no matter the rank of the power? I would test this myself but I am not high enough lvl to check and to poor to respec. Thanks for any info.
the bleeds are a condition, not a part of the power's damage it's self... AS SUCH.
I think they used to scale, but now I think bleeds scale in general with overall damage of the character and your level. I Think they ignore armor and resistance though... except maybe active block. The block after-armors ignore bleeds (or say they do), and they get through like you don't have any protection at all.

They do scale with conning though. A bleed on a very very high enemy used to be less than a bleed on a very very low enemy. Not sure if this is true anymore.

You can get stronger bleeds by stacking more of them, and by getting "swallowtail cut"(STC) for scything blade. This will make your bleed have an additional amount of DoT proportionate to the enemy's health. It's pretty strong, but it doesn't work on anything with more than 2 brackets of life (master villain or legendary). But it's great on villains.

I usually enter the fray with 2 gun mojo, end build a little when I get there, like 2 hits, then Scything (STC) and caress/caress/caress and then move on to my next target, or do a pbaoe, finishing off the first target and softening the rest, then SCT on target 2, STC on target 3, then finish the rest off.

or you could jump in all sneaky like, STC (scything) every target once, then just AOE-maintain (anything will do really) and then run away. Time might just do the rest. If it doesn't, then finish them off with love-taps, like an end builder or a single pulse of something.

doesn't work for everyone, but it works great for me.
usually I don't have a real formulae, it's like jazz and I adapt.
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[Archived Post]

Doesn't relate to RC, but I do find it funny that the new Flourish actually makes Reaper's Embrace worse.

[Archived Post]

Doesn't relate to RC, but I do find it funny that the new Flourish actually makes Reaper's Embrace worse.
it does one thing good: it doesn't end bleeds.
but it also doesn't do more burst based on how many effects, 1 debuff from might or... anything, or 5 bleeds, makes no difference. And the bonus isn't very much either. All it does is NOT end bleeds, while doing SOEMTHING more for a bonus damage for effects.

it's pretty awful.
I actually don't use embrace at all anymore because I do more damamge over time while in great safety for less end by stacking bleeds indefinitely and then using a ranged maintain, or a reflection/armor effect, like eye of the storm with blade beyond the veil.

if they fix embrace's abysmal bonus I'll rethink it, but now, it's meh. WHich sucks cause I'm used to broadsword in CoX, I love me some burst damage. But a burst is good to start, not after 4 other hits... that's just jonny come lately for my taste.
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[Archived Post]

I've been trying to find out if the bleed from SMG w/ Aggression stacks with the others, no one's said anything.

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I tested all of the melee Tier 0's last week. Reaper's Caress' base damage was second from the bottom in DPS. Figuring the DPS from the bleed was difficult as timing the bleed ticks was chancy. However, fudging it puts Caress in the top half of the T0's. If I allocated all of the bleed damage to the time frame required to deliver the combo, which is not correct, Caress was second from the top in T0 DPS.

Not a surprise, Ego Weaponry was numero uno. Probably a surprise to some, Beatdown was second. Also not a surprise, Thundering Kicks was the worst.

[Archived Post]

It's a decent power. One of my toons (ice) has it to fit with the concept and for dealing with tough baddies that survive the ice wall + shatter combo. TBH, if I were min/maxxing, I would have taken Laser Sword instead, or maybe Chainsaw. The DPS on these two is just plain scary and are a far better choice for ranged toons who invest in REC and/or END.

[Archived Post]

The Bleed only occurs if you rank it up, correct? Testing this in the Powerhouse at Rank 1 and... yeah. No bleed.

[Archived Post]

it does one thing good: it doesn't end bleeds.
but it also doesn't do more burst based on how many effects, 1 debuff from might or... anything, or 5 bleeds, makes no difference. And the bonus isn't very much either. All it does is NOT end bleeds, while doing SOEMTHING more for a bonus damage for effects.

it's pretty awful.
I actually don't use embrace at all anymore because I do more damamge over time while in great safety for less end by stacking bleeds indefinitely and then using a ranged maintain, or a reflection/armor effect, like eye of the storm with blade beyond the veil.

if they fix embrace's abysmal bonus I'll rethink it, but now, it's meh. WHich sucks cause I'm used to broadsword in CoX, I love me some burst damage. But a burst is good to start, not after 4 other hits... that's just jonny come lately for my taste.
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It lowers DPS. SC to 2x RC to RE is a good bit of DPS. If you want to get fancy, you can try to work in a Dragon's Bite and get 4 bleeds but I think it's a bit over kill. You can apply 3 bleeds in 4.67 seconds. If you rupture it, the first bleed basically does 1.6x the damage of a full duration bleed, the second does between 1.3x and 1.4x, and the last one does between 1.1x and 1.2x. You get the the damage of 4.1 full duration bleeds in about 60% of the duration of the first full bleed.

So let's pretend a full dot is 100 damage, 10 a tick (although I'm not sure there aren't 11 ticks- we'll do 10 for simplicity).

Running 3 dots constantly is going to be an extra 30 DPS. If you rupture them, you do 2.28x DPS which is 68.33. To make up for this, Flourish in this example is going to need to add 230 damage to the base to keep up with DPS--- (68.33-30)*6 where 6 is the recharge. It's more or less accurate. I'm not including it's charge time.

It does do bonus damage, but I was only able to see it on rank 1. It may not be working with Rank 2. It was also a pretty dismal bonus- maybe in the vicinity of 15%?

[Archived Post]

It's a fair bread and butter power. I use it enough that I don't feel the need to retcon out of it, but I do question if I would take it in its current incarnation.

[Archived Post]

The Bleed only occurs if you rank it up, correct? Testing this in the Powerhouse at Rank 1 and... yeah. No bleed.

The bleed effect appears after the third hit in a successful combo without any required advantages. You basically have to tap the power pretty quickly in order for the combo to work, any delay and you lose it.

[Archived Post]

Hmm.. Did they change Scything to proc bleed on first hit? Either that or I must've spammed it faster than I thought. But at level 12, it does pretty low dmg.. about 6/sec on the lv 10 power house dummies

[Archived Post]

Hmm.. Did they change Scything to proc bleed on first hit? Either that or I must've spammed it faster than I thought. But at level 12, it does pretty low dmg.. about 6/sec on the lv 10 power house dummies

Scything Blade is not Reaper's Caress. ;)

Scything Blade has no combo, only one hit which applies the bleed.
Reaper's Caress has a 3-hit combo, which applies the bleed after the third hit.

[Archived Post]

no...it was a blantant lie...if you honestly believe reapers caress did less damage than an energy builder, you do not understand the base 10 number system, or you cant read.

Actually, it would be easy to come to the conclusion that Reaper's Caress was doing less damage than the SB builder with limited information. Sort of like jjumpng to conclusions based on incomplete evidence, like deciding the OP was lying without considering all ramifications.

Scenario: you start an SB toon, enter the tutorial. The 1st hit in the builder and 1st hit on the Reaper's combo do almost identical damage. Don't believe me? Look at the powers in Champions Builder and you will see that the 1st builder hit does 65 (at level 40 with no damage bonuses) and the 1st hit on the Repaer's Combo does 67. Pretty darn close. Now, there is always some variation in damage numbers. Running an SB toon thru the tute last week I saw frequent builder 1st ticks at or just above 10 and frequent Reaper's 1st hits at 8 or 9. It didn't happen every time and not at all on subsequent hits, but based on circumstances and incomplete sampling, one could reach the conclusion the OP reached.

[Archived Post]

Scything Blade is not Reaper's Caress. ;)

Scything Blade has no combo, only one hit which applies the bleed.
Reaper's Caress has a 3-hit combo, which applies the bleed after the third hit.

Ohh I totally didnt realize that Reaper gives a bleed effect because I always start with scything lol. Thanks for the info :)

[Archived Post]

I've been trying to find out if the bleed from SMG w/ Aggression stacks with the others, no one's said anything.

Ben6989, I can tell you that the Bleed from SMG stacks with the Bleed from Reaper's Caress and the Swallowtail Cut percentage bleed. Personally I haven't confirmed whether the SMG bleed counts towards Reaper's Embrace's Rupture damage, but I've seen other Single Bladers say it does.

Something to keep in mind is that in addition to the guaranteed Bleed at melee range, SMG with Aggression also has a 15% chance to apply a Bleed at range. This means that now and then you'll get to a mob and won't be able to apply Swallowtail Cut because it's already Bleeding. Aside from this possibility, it's a quick way to add a Bleed stack - Scything Blade, tap SMG, Reaper's Caress x 3 gets you the Swallowtail Bleed and 2 regular Bleeds faster than just using SB + RC.

Huh, something just occurred to me - I wonder if repeated taps of SMG at melee range will give you a new Bleed stack every time? If I recall correctly, the power description doesn't contain the "if no X exists, apply X" language...

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OK, so lets clear some things up:

1) many bleeding powers do not stack with the 3rd strike of Reapers Caress. When i tested it in early start, this included SMG with bleeding advantage. I love reaper's caress b/c it is fast and frequent sword dmg that gives time for my lightning sword to proc, plus it can do challenging strikes.

2) without using Dragon's to refresh the bleeds, you will be hard pressed to get more then 3 bleeds on a target at the same time. i have never seen more than 3 bleeds on a target at once, even when grouping with other people who did bleeds.

3) I love Reaper's embrass. If I charge it after 3 bleeds are on a villian with three health bars (yes, no swallotail b/c he has 3 bars) it will do approximately 2000 damage, and remove one of his health bars at level 30. This is hard to set up, but it is totally worth it. Reaper's embrace does approximately 1000 dmg when fully charge and with all advantages (again at level 30). Each bleed removed does an additional 300 dmg (i.e. times 3 bleeds). Now, when one does this, it will seem like you just did 1000 dmg, but if you check your combat logs u will see you did (1000+300+300+300). Also, if you are using STC with Reaper's caress, Reaper's Embrace will allow you to apply a new STC bleed to the target. Since RC can only be used on non-bleeding foes, this combo works well in keeping your strangest bleed on the target.

The complaining about STC on the forums will hopefully spur Cryptic to make STC do less dmg, and the other bleeds do more, since then players will have to work a little harder to get the bang for their buck (instead of spamming STC on each mob/player they see). lets just hope that whatever change they do does not bottle neck single blade players into a specific play style, the freedom of this power tree is it's only real saving grace.

[Archived Post]

reapers caress is how i do most of my single blade dps. i lead into a group with thunderbolt lunge + toxic nanites, swallow tail everyone in the group then go to to town wiith reapers caress. then the energy builder and finish off anyone still standing with cull the weak.

its a load of fun but regeneration is what makes it feasible not the single blade powers :(

[Archived Post]

reapers caress is how i do most of my single blade dps. i lead into a group with thunderbolt lunge + toxic nanites, swallow tail everyone in the group then go to to town wiith reapers caress. then the energy builder and finish off anyone still standing with cull the weak.

its a load of fun but regeneration is what makes it feasible not the single blade powers :(

Thats not true... My single blade user is stated fairly broadly (only ignoring presence really) and I use defiance as a passive.. I do have Chi Resurgence though for when times get rough, but otherwise, Reaper's Caress is my main damage ability too.

[Archived Post]

OK, so lets clear some things up:
3) I love Reaper's embrass. If I charge it after 3 bleeds are on a villian with three health bars (yes, no swallotail b/c he has 3 bars) it will do approximately 2000 damage, and remove one of his health bars at level 30. This is hard to set up, but it is totally worth it. Reaper's embrace does approximately 1000 dmg when fully charge and with all advantages (again at level 30). Each bleed removed does an additional 300 dmg (i.e. times 3 bleeds). Now, when one does this, it will seem like you just did 1000 dmg, but if you check your combat logs u will see you did (1000+300+300+300). Also, if you are using STC with Reaper's caress, Reaper's Embrace will allow you to apply a new STC bleed to the target. Since RC can only be used on non-bleeding foes, this combo works well in keeping your strangest bleed on the target.


yes it is a very good way to do huge damage even if it takes some setup time. the most i ever did was 4 stack bleeds and a crit from Reaper's Embrace. RE hit for about 2.8k and the rupture damage vary from 300+ up to 800+ damage.

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Honestly, they could nearly double the damage of each hit in the combo and it'd still not be as strong as it needs to be. Single Blade is the single target build for the Martial Artists, and being melee, should have the highest hands down dps out of all the sets, period. The disadvantage of being melee is really the only reason it needs to be the king of single target dps.

But, more on topic, Reaper's Caress needs a boost in damage. At rank two, it does around 60, 80, then 150x2. It should be doing around 80, 120, then 180x2. That would make it a good spam power while also allowing to set up for later Reaper's Embrace usage.

Other than how Swallowtail Cut works on half the enemies in the game, the entire Single Blade set is severely underpowered. STC doesn't work on Super Villain or above, and it shouldn't, Flourish needs to get 50% from EACH unique bleed, and Culling the Weak (Dragon's Bite) only works on what, half the mobs with a lack luster damage increase on the other?

I love my Single Blader, but he is so frustrating to play. STC and Eye of the Storm + Blade Beyond the Veil make him OP in solo, but he quickly becomes useless in groups when a Super Villain or higher is encountered. Everytime I think of that Brain in Telios Tower, a little piece of my melee spirit dies.