Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines

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Hi everyone,

I wanted to take a few moments today to remind you all of our Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines (http://forums.champions-online.com/announcement.php?f=90&a=6). You can find these guidelines listed at the top of every forum page, right next to our Cryptic Studios Infraction Policy (http://forums.champions-online.com/announcement.php?f=90&a=5).

These two documents outline what is, and is not acceptable on our forums. Since we seem to be having some trouble with this lately, I would highly recommend that all of you read over these two documents and familiarize yourself with them.

In particular, I want to share with you this clause:

Protected Classes
Posts and/or private messages that allude to, contain language, comments, references, links, symbols, terms and/or imagery about and/or promote and/or otherwise support, in any manner whether directly or indirectly, hatred, discrimination and/or denigrations based on or related to any protected class (e.g., race, ethnicity, religion, sect, color, national origin, age, gender, familial status, sexual orientation, disability status, veteran status, genetic information, etc.) may be subject to an infraction.

I also want to remind everyone that this game is rated "T" for Teen. It's forums and chat rooms also adhere to these standards. This rating, from the ESRB means:

"Titles rated T (Teen) have content that may be suitable for persons ages 13 and older."

What this should mean to you is a couple of different things:

1) Regardless of anyone's race, religion, or sexual orientation, they are welcome here. Everyone is entitled to the same rights, privileges, and respect as you are on these forums.

2) If you don't believe that something is appropriate for a 13 year old to read, or believe that someone out there will disagree with your opinion that something is appropriate for a 13 year old to read, DON'T POST IT.

Everyone needs to stop bashing everyone else on these forums. If you all can't manage to do so, I can promise you, right now, you will be banned.

I won't tolerate hatred towards any single group of people on these forums. Knock it off, or else.

Thanks,

Stormshade

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just to clarify.. is cussing (within reason) okay as long as you don't evade the filter?

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just to clarify.. is cussing (within reason) okay as long as you don't evade the filter?

From the post above yours:

2) If you don't believe that something is appropriate for a 13 year old to read, or believe that someone out there will disagree with your opinion that something is appropriate for a 13 year old to read, DON'T POST IT.

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yeah but its filtered. 13 year olds deal with filtered profanity all the time... just turn on the radio... or read a comic book :D

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yeah but its filtered. 13 year olds deal with filtered profanity all the time... just turn on the radio... or read a comic book :D

It's not MY rule but Cryptics. If you feel you can get around it....go for it. Point is, if someone else THINKS you are in violation of the above rule you probably will be reported. Type at your own risk.

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which is...why i asked.

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With regards to "2) If you don't believe that something is appropriate for a 13 year old to read, or believe that someone out there will disagree with your opinion that something is appropriate for a 13 year old to read, DON'T POST IT."

I can't help but laugh my butt off. Have people been living in a cave the past few weeks and missed the whole fiasco over Obama wanting to talk to school children? There will ALWAYS be someone who disagrees - no matter what you say or the truth behind it.

If you're going to enforce that rule completely Storm, then you might as well shut down the forums...


But I probably shouldn't have posted this. I'm sure somebody out there thinks that 13 year olds shouldn't be exposed to challenges of authority or the questioning of "those in charge."

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This is very interesting. With most MMORPGs, you'll see a big fat "M" on the box for "Mature" because the game developers know they can't keep every crazy on the Internet from doing something graphic. However, if you look on the front of the Champions Online box, you see a big fat "T" for "Teen."

What they are pledging to do here is a whole new precedent for mainstream MMORPGs. Possibly an impossible one - three GMs against the world? Not likely. Maybe a few hundred, but customer service rarely sees that much funding. If that's your pledge, these forums will probably either get shut down or probably broken off and considered not being part of the game's rating system.

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This is very interesting. With most MMORPGs, you'll see a big fat "M" on the box for "Mature" because the game developers know they can't keep every crazy on the Internet from doing something graphic. However, if you look on the front of the Champions Online box, you see a big fat "T" for "Teen." What they are pledging to do here is a whole new precedent for mainstream MMORPGs.

What are these most? WoW is T, City of Heroes/Villains is T. Age of Conan is M, but the immaturity there was stuff of legend.

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What are these most? WoW is T, City of Heroes/Villains is T. Age of Conan is M, but the immaturity there was stuff of legend.
Talk about immaturity as being stuff of legend. World of ********'s boards are a quagmire, and Barrens chat is legendary (http://www.wowwiki.com/Barrens_chat) for the vileness that it spews.

Regarding what were "the most" I'm probably thinking along the lines of the classics. EverQuest. Ultima Online.

Looking now, I see they're putting T on all the boxes. Funny - where did I get the impression they were M? Perhaps the ratings boards have changed their idea of what really constitutes Teen.

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just to clarify.. is cussing (within reason) okay as long as you don't evade the filter?

No. Cussing is not acceptable on these forums.

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No. Cussing is not acceptable on these forums.

I disagree. If T can be compared to PG-13 (Which I think is how it usually is) then all of this

Parents Strongly Cautioned (1984-Present)
Some material may be inappropriate for children under 13.

May contain moderate language, minimal strong language, some explicit nudity, intense violence, gore, some sex, or mild drug content. This is the highest unrestricted rating.

Should be allowed. If this is not the case then the game should have been rated E for Everyone.

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I disagree. If T can be compared to PG-13 (Which I think is how it usually is) then all of this

Parents Strongly Cautioned (1984-Present)
Some material may be inappropriate for children under 13.

May contain moderate language, minimal strong language, some explicit nudity, intense violence, gore, some sex, or mild drug content. This is the highest unrestricted rating.

Should be allowed. If this is not the case then the game should have been rated E for Everyone.

It's always been my experience that when a Moderator has spoken about proper forum conduct, bucking the system usually ends poorly for the bucker.

I don't even know why it's an issue. There is no reason you NEED to cuss. Type #$!!@*! if you feel the need (I guess) but can't you express yourself without profanity? That's sad.

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I disagree. If T can be compared to PG-13 (Which I think is how it usually is) then all of this

Parents Strongly Cautioned (1984-Present)
You're assuming they're not going for the "parents strongly cautioned" level of T. Its pretty clear by them flat out saying "no cussing allowed" that they're not.

Internet Netiquette 101: They who host the forums set the rules.

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I don't even know why it's an issue. There is no reason you NEED to cuss. Type #$!!@*! if you feel the need (I guess) but can't you express yourself without profanity? That's sad.

I don't know why its an issue either. There is no reason you NEED to dislike cussing. Most of the milder cuss words are already seen on television on a daily basis anyways, I don't think I know any 13 year olds who don't watch TV. Cuss words are simply words that certain groups of people have attached negative connotations to which force everyone else who doesn't agree with them to "deal."

Internet Netiquette 101: They who host the forums set the rules.

Doesn't make the rules absolute in their correctness. If a post like my previous one would be enough for me to get banned then I wouldn't want to post here anyway. I doubt that is the case however, as I wasn't belligerent nor rude. I was simply stating what the equivalent movie rating said. if there is anything I regret about my previous post, it is that I should have said E10+ instead of E. That rating is hardly used so it slipped my mind.

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Basically, you're trying to alter their definition of what constitutes acceptable behavior on the forum by using somebody's else's guidelines (apparently "parents strongly cautioned" guidelines as applies to movies) as proof. Because they who host the forums set the rules, any external sets of rules you find have zero bearing on them.

Basically, you were operating under the wrong premise the moment you said "I disagree." There is no "I disagree" here. The guest does not set the rules in the host's house. A gracious host is polite; a gracious business attempts to be reasonably accommodating to its customers; but in either case you're definitely not aware of your boundaries if you think you can tell a moderator, "I see your house rules but reject them in favor of rules I do like."

(On the other hand, I'm another guest who's wandering dangerous close to speaking for the host, so perhaps I aught to just shut up, eh? Honestly, I'm almost as bad as those City of Heroes forum goers who respond to posts in the suggestion forums with, "No. Never." Why not? "Because I read this developer message from 2 1/2 years ago that said they weren't going to do that." Well, maybe things have changed. "No." How do you know? "Listen, I'm part of the Forum Cartel and that means you're wrong because I said so." You don't say? In response, I'm going to say that you're overdue for a permaban.)

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Basically, you're trying to alter their definition of what constitutes acceptable behavior on the forum by using somebody's else's guidelines (apparently "parents strongly cautioned" guidelines as applies to movies) as proof. Because they who host the forums set the rules, any external sets of rules you find have zero bearing on them.

Basically, you were operating under the wrong premise the moment you said "I disagree." There is no "I disagree" here. The guest does not set the rules in the host's house. A gracious host is polite; a gracious business attempts to be reasonably accommodating to its customers; but in either case you're definitely not aware of your boundaries if you think you can tell a moderator, "I see your house rules but reject them in favor of rules I do like."

(On the other hand, I'm another guest who's wandering dangerous close to speaking for the host, so perhaps I aught to just shut up, eh? Honestly, I'm almost as bad as those City of Heroes forum goers who respond to posts in the suggestion forums with, "No. Never." Why not? "Because I read this developer message from 2 1/2 years ago that said they weren't going to do that." Well, maybe things have changed. "No." How do you know? "Listen, I'm part of the Forum Cartel and that means you're wrong because I said so." You don't say? In response, I'm going to say that you're overdue for a permaban.)

While I may have touched on MPAA and ESRB guidelines far too much, the door was opened for me in this part of the post.

"Titles rated T (Teen) have content that may be suitable for persons ages 13 and older."

What this should mean to you is a couple of different things:

The "host" himself used the ESRB rating to set up the forum rules.

Also, I am not saying that I am going to go out and cuss and start a fuss. I am simply stating that I don't agree with them and would prefer them changed to be more modern. I was not aware that openly disagreeing with someone was bad manners instead of keeping it to myself and lying.

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Thanks for posting this StormShade, it is amazing how many people simply missed the PG/T rating on this game. Or maybe they just didn't want to see it? Who knows!

Like I said in numerous threads, kids play this game be aware of it and stop being so selfish, they are here to have fun as well.

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Guys, this should be rather easy, and Stormy is not over the top in this.

A lot of parents will have taught their kids by now, that "There is no need for that type of language". That goes for the forums as well. There is no need to resort to strong language to express strong feelings. We have a lot of other words in the English (German and French) language(s), which allow you to speak your mind without insults.

We draw the line at "no" cussing. We don't make it difficult and say "Some cussing, but you cannot go X". We're trying to be fair and as such say: No cussing for ANYONE on ANYTHING.

After all, we're not cussing at you, either. :)

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And all games with an online component are rated according to their intrinsic content only. So for most this ends up being T except for things like AoC that go out of their way to deliberately get an M or something.

But they all have that little caveat underneath that says "Gameplay Experience May Change During Online Play", i.e. if some other player cusses at little Timmy online then it's not their fault.

/PF

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After all, we're not cussing at you, either. :)

Darn straight!

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Darn straight!

zomg! *bane*

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BELGIUM!

Someone had to say it.

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zomg! *bane*

Gadzooks, Wishy needs Hot Chocolate STAT!

*and then I go look up the origin of that word and... :o Is nothing safe?? This was the exclamation always used by my high-school science teacher...

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BELGIUM!

Someone had to say it.

GASP you know less offensive words have been created in the many languages of the galaxy, such as joojooflop, swut and Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish.

People misusing the word Belgium like you did is why Earth is shunned by the rest of the universe.

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The "host" himself used the ESRB rating to set up the forum rules.
While it's easy to interpret what was said that way, I'm not sure that's true. Yes, they refer to the game by it's ESRB rating in this thread, but what they're really saying is, "Our intended approach to support the game's ESRB rating on our forums is." In fact, the very next sentence if what you quoted says something like, "this is what this means to you" so clearly that wasn't meant to be taken literally as "our rules = ESRB rules."

If you're still confused, the house rules are really clearly outlined in Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines (http://forums.champions-online.com/announcement.php?f=90&a=6) - that's kinda the point of this thread.

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No. Cussing is not acceptable on these forums.

Fair enough. Edited a story to accommodate that. :)

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If you really feel the need to discuss CO and cuss, why not create your own forum where only cussing is allowed when discussing CO?

Here, this is Cryptic's forum and Cryptic's rules.

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According to whose cultural prejudices?

I know that the list of banned letter-sequences in the US is different to those in the UK, and I'm betting it's different again in the rest of the English-speaking countries.

(Random example of word that was historically banned on US television: pregnant)

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lofl well that was funny to read still i hate it wen theres a heated argument and one of the people speaking resorts to offensive language in my oppinion that jst ruins everything ur trying to say because it shows how childish u rlly are and that doesnt help ur case

seriously if u want to get ur point across strong language doesnt help it jst agrivates the other person

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No. Cussing is not acceptable on these forums.

I find it offensive that you would censor and restrict the use of language on these forums, i do not believe it is appropriate in a forum with developing minds (13+). In accordance with point two of the original post, point 2, i demand infraction points be issued!


Ok in all seriousness, demanding that people read other's minds and adhere to rules predicated on opinion, is silly.. why not just make some real, specific, all encompassing rules about what we can and can't do? I shouldn't have to guess what is and isn't appropriate, it's your job to tell us.

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I shouldn't have to guess what is and isn't appropriate, it's your job to tell us.

Didn't the "No cursing" do just that? I mean there's not a lot of gray area there.

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zomg! *bane*

Och und .. sorry no German for devil allowed?

Thank You very much for nice fair people as you, Storm ,BLue , MS Iron Angel ,Ms Awen in the past..

Considering feelings and being very nice to work with on issues. Fair Play wins..

Now go have some fun getting Perks for destruction... and not admonishments for being mean..

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Didn't the "No cursing" do just that? I mean there's not a lot of gray area there.

Absolutely, and that's fine. It's the original post i took issue with, it was a lot of posturing with very little substance, one shouldn't have to go to the second page to find the actual rule..

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offensive language in my oppinion that jst ruins everything ur trying to say because it shows how childish u rlly are

Quoted for irony.

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Absolutely, and that's fine. It's the original post i took issue with, it was a lot of posturing with very little substance, one shouldn't have to go to the second page to find the actual rule..

The "actual rules" are linked to in the post. They're called the Cryptic Studios Forum Guidelines, and the Cryptic Studios Infraction Policy.

Thanks,

Stormshade

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Ok in all seriousness, demanding that people read other's minds and adhere to rules predicated on opinion, is silly.. why not just make some real, specific, all encompassing rules about what we can and can't do? I shouldn't have to guess what is and isn't appropriate, it's your job to tell us.

Maybe I'm just getting old, but when did it become so difficult to know how to behave in public?

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Hi, if you haven't met me yet, I'm Nicole Hamlett (or Awen). I'm the Community Lead for Cryptic Studios. I'd like to take a moment to not only support my forum manager, Stormshade, in his posting but to also give out fair warning.

These forums have become a quagmire and that is going to change. If you are trolling, flaming, breaking our forum guidelines, you will be infracted - often. We've been very lax, mostly due to lack of moderation resources. That is changing. This community was built to foster goodwill amongst our players, promoting the sharing game information as well as communication between the development team and our players in a constructive manner.

If you cannot abide by these guidelines, please find a forum that better suits your needs. This topic isn't open to argument, we have guidelines and rules for a reason. If you cannot follow them, you will be banned.

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Stormshade, WishStone, and Awen,

Thank you for posting this and following up. The mood on the forum has been pretty ugly, up to and including some people trying to shout down and flame anyone who tries to offer any kind of feedback that is not 100% positive, as well as people who are flaming the game itself without any constructive input.

Much appreciate the shift in moderation.

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you will be infracted

*wince*

Can we infract that phrase, please? Some nouns just shouldn't be verbed.

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Hi, if you haven't met me yet, I'm Nicole Hamlett (or Awen). I'm the Community Lead for Cryptic Studios. I'd like to take a moment to not only support my forum manager, Stormshade, in his posting but to also give out fair warning.

These forums have become a quagmire and that is going to change. If you are trolling, flaming, breaking our forum guidelines, you will be infracted - often. We've been very lax, mostly due to lack of moderation resources. That is changing. This community was built to foster goodwill amongst our players, promoting the sharing game information as well as communication between the development team and our players in a constructive manner.

If you cannot abide by these guidelines, please find a forum that better suits your needs. This topic isn't open to argument, we have guidelines and rules for a reason. If you cannot follow them, you will be banned.

Awen is my "Hero of the Day" (tm)

I wish you the best in your (the collective 'your') efforts and look forward to a much more constructive forum environment.

Have a pleasant day. :)

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Awen is my "Hero of the Day" (tm)

I wish you the best in your (the collective 'your') efforts and look forward to a much more constructive forum environment.

Have a pleasant day. :)

/AGREE

All those who have to read some of the rude drivel here as their job...hats off to you!

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I'm all for cracking down on forum misbehaviour. However could we get a list (off to one side if needed) where those of us who are no native to the US and find the word "cuss" itself strange could check to see if something we have no problem at all is considered a "bad word" in the US. For example I wouldn't even blink if someone said "That's a damn shame" but I'm guessing that given a poster substituted "darn" that it would be on the list?

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yeah but its filtered. 13 year olds deal with filtered profanity all the time... just turn on the radio... or read a comic book :D

Being filtered doesn't mean you should cuss like you were in the navy.

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If anyone is truly confused, look up George Carlin's "Seven words you can't say on TV." I think it still applies today and gives us a good starting point.

I agree that mod oversight is absolutely necessary on forums like these.

I come from CoX where, at least on my home server, the sleaze factor was high, until the group associated w/ it left for another game. Incidentally, they were mostly PvPers.

The most egregious example was a guy hitting on an underage boy, 13 when he started playing the game I think. That went beyond any protected sexual orientation. When I spoke out, several posters told me to get lost. They didn't see or care that it was wrong. They said high school kids get exposed to uncensored adult behavior every day. That's what the "Teen" rating meant to them.

On the other hand, hopefully the moderating won't be heavy-handed. Also on CoX boards we saw almost Orwellian revisionist editing. Whole sections of threads would disappear, the good w/ the bad. Some specific posts were thoughtful and should have been preserved, yet they got pruned along w/ those seeking to cause trouble.

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The fuss over cuss

Cussing or swearing just shows an inability to form words in a more constructive manner

or as a professor once told me - it is lazy language and lacks any imagination

if you cuss you roll the dice
I prefer not to be banned