Is healing aggro & threat being looked at?

[Archived Post]

OK, so I can understand healing generating a lot of threat inside an instance, and the tank having to fight for threat. Although I haven't yet experienced it, I hear it is higher than it should be. I can say for certain that healing definitely generates and insanly high amount of threat, probably much more than it should outside of instances.

I'm flying by on my level 20 character who has Psionic Healing and a modest 25 Presence with my normal gear on, in Guardian role. Yes, a whopping 25 Presence. I see another player attacking a group of villains, etc. all around my level. He has all of them damaged at least 10-25%, and is using AoE attacks aside from focusing on one. His health is at maybe 80-85%. No biggie, nothing major, so I just tap my Psionic Healing to throw him a little heal.

Almost immediately the group that is taking the aoe damage turns and starts attacking me. Am I to believe that a tiny heal generates more threat than doing at least 10% of a mob's health?

Something doesn't seem right. Forget about trying to stand there and heal the player, suddenly everything within sight starts aggroing on me.

So, broken? Thanks!

[Archived Post]

I think there does need to be some adjustment, but I think the bulk of complaints are coming from people with the mentality that healers do not get hit. Like CoH, this game isn't for the backline healer that never expects to get hit.

Did this player have taunts and challenges in his powers? Doubtful.

Was he in a stance or in a form that reduced his agro? Probably.

Does agro scale with an attribute that you had very little of? Yes.

99% of this game does not require a dedicated healer, nor does it put a healer in a position where their defenses can't cope with henchmen agro. When you do get into content that requires dedicated healing you can also expect the tank to have taunts and challenges available in a stance that increases agro.

If you want to be a healer in this game you will need to get a better grip on the mechanics of agro and get out of the WoW healer mentality.

[Archived Post]

OK, so I can understand healing generating a lot of threat inside an instance, and the tank having to fight for threat. Although I haven't yet experienced it, I hear it is higher than it should be. I can say for certain that healing definitely generates and insanly high amount of threat, probably much more than it should outside of instances.

I'm flying by on my level 20 character who has Psionic Healing and a modest 25 Presence with my normal gear on, in Guardian role. Yes, a whopping 25 Presence. I see another player attacking a group of villains, etc. all around my level. He has all of them damaged at least 10-25%, and is using AoE attacks aside from focusing on one. His health is at maybe 80-85%. No biggie, nothing major, so I just tap my Psionic Healing to throw him a little heal.

Almost immediately the group that is taking the aoe damage turns and starts attacking me. Am I to believe that a tiny heal generates more threat than doing at least 10% of a mob's health?

Something doesn't seem right. Forget about trying to stand there and heal the player, suddenly everything within sight starts aggroing on me.

So, broken? Thanks!

The DEVS already mentioned that aggro in this game is intended how it is right now and they won't change it. Basically anyone on your team will receive a flat equal amount of aggro and healing will cause the most aggro.

What they DID suggest as a balance however is to increase the amount of threat generation that threat generating attacks and powers do right now. They feel that those who wish to tank, should be able to tank and draw aggro off support like characters. I can't find the thread right now but trust me it was mentioned. It has a DEV header on it.

[Archived Post]

I understand your points about healing here being different from other games. But to throw out a tiny heal and to grab a massive amount of threat doesn't seem right at all. Yes, I expect to generate threat, especially so in lairs and other instances. Most players are running in Guardian role, so their threat generation should be normalized.

I understand the mechanics of aggro very well, and I agree that a good portion of this game doesn't require dedicated healing. Yet peruse the forums, and you see plenty of posts from people who are taking a lot of damage soloing. Healing generates threat, but is it too much threat compared to damage?

[Archived Post]

The DEVS already mentioned that aggro in this game is intended how it is right now and they won't change it. Basically anyone on your team will receive a flat equal amount of aggro and healing will cause the most aggro.

What they DID suggest as a balance however is to increase the amount of threat generation that threat generating attacks and powers do right now. They feel that those who wish to tank, should be able to tank and draw aggro off support like characters. I can't find the thread right now but trust me it was mentioned. It has a DEV header on it.

Ah, ok, I'll do a search for it. In essence, this is another minor feature that would actually discourage grouping, or even helping other players.

[Archived Post]

The DEVS already mentioned that aggro in this game is intended how it is right now and they won't change it. Basically anyone on your team will receive a flat equal amount of aggro and healing will cause the most aggro.

What they DID suggest as a balance however is to increase the amount of threat generation that threat generating attacks and powers do right now. They feel that those who wish to tank, should be able to tank and draw aggro off support like characters. I can't find the thread right now but trust me it was mentioned. It has a DEV header on it.

Actually there just recently was a dev post saying it's not working like it should be.
While there is not really supposed to be a main tank, healing isn't supposed to draw aggro like it does currently.
It is possible to hold aggro without much trouble, I held the attention of Viper-X with just Crippling Challenge on Lash while getting healed today. This was done in Balanced Stance with Regeneration (Terrible tanking power I know, but all the others there kept going splat because they couldn't figure out how the shift key worked) and with a wooping 10 Presence.
Granted I did pump out quite a bit of damage (Yay for Having full end after each attack against you, tap a high end cost power and go back into block mode)
With Crippling Challenge, some DPS and possibly other things with Threat on it, like the threat advantages and powers like Defensive Combo it is quite possible to hold aggro even when getting healed.

The problem is that people actually think Presence matters for aggro as a tank, when it's advantages and powers with inherent threat bonuses one should rely on.

[Archived Post]

Actually there just recently was a dev post saying it's not working like it should be.
While there is not really supposed to be a main tank, healing isn't supposed to draw aggro like it does currently.
It is possible to hold aggro without much trouble, I held the attention of Viper-X with just Crippling Challenge on Lash while getting healed today. This was done in Balanced Stance with Regeneration (Terrible tanking power I know, but all the others there kept going splat because they couldn't figure out how the shift key worked) and with a wooping 10 Presence.
Granted I did pump out quite a bit of damage (Yay for Having full end after each attack against you, tap a high end cost power and go back into block mode)
With Crippling Challenge, some DPS and possibly other things with Threat on it, like the threat advantages and powers like Defensive Combo it is quite possible to hold aggro even when getting healed.

The problem is that people actually think Presence matters for aggro as a tank, when it's advantages and powers with inherent threat bonuses one should rely on.

Thanks for the info then, I need to be updated on the latest post. Can you link it for us here on this thread?

The info I got was from this post here (which is kinda old)

http://forums.champions-online.com/showthread.php?t=59459

It gives me more hope if they are deciding to rebalance aggro, cause I hate the current system TBH.

[Archived Post]

I certainly hope that they are looking at it, as it doesn't seem to be working properly... like many things in this game.

[Archived Post]

I had 150+ Pre during the search and destroyer quest and healing myself(with emphatic healing) was basically suicide. It pulled both ranged and melee aggro straight off the tank and onto me.

Not good at all on a glass cannon, and I had no stars left by the time big D was defeated. I just stopped trying to survive, and was more helpful to the team as a Kamikaze then as a ranged DPS'er...I would just build full END and then drop into the biggest crowd of mobs in the room to point blank conflag them until I ran out of energy and either me or them died.

More often then not it was me.

[Archived Post]

Thanks for the info then, I need to be updated on the latest post. Can you link it for us here on this thread?

The info I got was from this post here (which is kinda old)

http://forums.champions-online.com/showthread.php?t=59459

It gives me more hope if they are deciding to rebalance aggro, cause I hate the current system TBH.

It's mentioned in the devchat they had the other day:

http://forums.champions-online.com/showthread.php?t=61944

...

19:27] <~COquestionbot> <freakigod> QUESTION: Do the develeopers play in groups to test the lairs and how agro works, or is that not important to the development of the game?

[19:28] <@Cryptic_AntiProton> We do play in groups, and we do test the lairs. We've been in a bit of a moving target situation with the march up to release, and now that things are mostly settled (inasmuch as anything in an MMO ever is), we can fine tune it. Aggro was intended to create the frenetic feel of how comic book combat feels
[19:28] <@Cryptic_AntiProton> not allow a traditional MMO tank to hold all the aggro. The current issue with the improper critter aggro is totally not the intended dynamic and we are working on some solutions to that.
[19:28] <@Cryptic_AntiProton> It may be through further work on the powers and advantages that are intended to have aggro effects, or it may be through AI changes, adding some values to the roles, or some combination of all three.
[19:29] <@cryptic_chronomancer> The biggest feedback that we received from players in the beta was requesting more city-based content. The first new zones we'd be looking to create would take that firmly into account. Of course, we're going to continue to create various places in - and outside - our world to explore.

[19:29] <@Cryptic_AntiProton> I personally definitely have had some frustrating aggro experiences while grouping on Fight Club, and we are discussing it and working on it. Group play needs to be fun, we like playing that way!

[Archived Post]

I'm right there with ya. Heal some one in trouble and you get the attention of the whole group. And that's fine for me cuz I'm hard yo. :D
But yeah this kinda puts people off of taking heal powers. So everyone out there looking to become a tank take some heal powers!
Might look into some pets like the wolves or something. They draw agro like nobody's business. I have crippling challenge in my mighty leap & it doesn't even make the target look at me if he's got a wolf on him.