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View Full Version : So, ego blades.. how do you deal with them?


Archived Post
09-12-2009, 06:22 PM
As far as I have seen, in any duel or pvp battle, if player A, who has ego blades, is within a 10 rank lower/equal level of player B, player B instantly gets critted and dies.

How do you face an ego blader? They just buff up, do two crits, and you are dead. This has been happening to everyone, and the only people who can face them now is other ego bladers.

The first one to hit wins.

Is there a special way to deal with them or something? Am I missing a point, here?

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 06:28 PM
Yeah its the new FoTM OP build people are useing,soon to be nerfed im sure.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 06:30 PM
Yeah its the new FoTM OP build people are useing,soon to be nerfed im sure.


I just drop my mini-mines before they have a chance to lock me down for the kill, then they end up being the dead ones, considering the ones that can 2-shot you are using offensive passives, and as such, are squishier than Mages in WoW.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 06:30 PM
As far as I have seen, in any duel or pvp battle, if player A, who has ego blades, is within a 10 rank lower/equal level of player B, player B instantly gets critted and dies.

How do you face an ego blader? They just buff up, do two crits, and you are dead. This has been happening to everyone, and the only people who can face them now is other ego bladers.

The first one to hit wins.

Is there a special way to deal with them or something? Am I missing a point, here?

...
block initial burst
knockback
hold
snare
force bolt spam
ego blades = melee = gimp vs any decent pvp ranged framework

also cant imagine something crit through my 3k at lvl 20 in two hits. Con superstated makes wonders
also they almost forced to get ego form or shadow form to do that damage and thats also means auto gg in duel vs any decent opponent.

but yeah ego blades sometimes do 2 crits around 600 damage each back to back, rather scary but in team game or duel its non factor - no def passive means you are forced to block a lot or die.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 06:34 PM
...
block initial burst
knockback
hold
snare
force bolt spam
ego blades = melee = gimp vs any decent pvp ranged framework

also cant imagine something crit through my 3k at lvl 20 in two hits. Con superstated makes wonders
also they almost forced to get ego form or shadow form to do that damage and thats also means auto gg in duel vs any decent opponent.

but yeah ego blades sometimes do 2 crits around 600 damage each back to back, rather scary but in team game or duel its non factor - no def passive means you are forced to block a lot or die.

Yeah block a Ego Blade Breach then you get stuned then you get hit for 2-3k hits then dead.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 06:34 PM
I wish my ego blades were that powerful, we have to work very hard to fight for the most part, especially vs ranged attackers, as do any melee, your post is very over the top and exagerated. Any skilled range player can lock us down and make us easy pickings.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 06:35 PM
I wish my ego blades were that powerful, we have to work very hard to fight for the most part, especially vs ranged attackers, as do any melee, your post is very over the top and exagerated. Any skilled range player can lock us down and make us easy pickings.

No it isn't.You haven't been PvPing in T4 then.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 06:36 PM
No it isn't.You haven't been PvPing in T4 then.

If your getting killed in a couple of hits from EBB you certainly havent

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 06:39 PM
Dude if your not doing 2-3k hit with your EBB your spec is wrong,cause thats all I ever see it hit for in PvP.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 06:42 PM
Dude if your not doing 2-3k hit with your EBB your spec is wrong,cause thats all I ever see it hit for in PvP.

Full charge sure, tapping, not so much. We have to stand still to charge and its not a short charge either, so what are you doing wrong to let yourself get hit with it multiple times in a row? Seriously this whole thread stinks of user errors and whine before thoughts.

Whats needed is for other melee classes to brough up to the level of Ego Blades, were already disadvantaged enough being melee in a range dominant game.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 06:43 PM
That would mean Exodus' spec is right. Min/maxing is wrong to me. Its all about the fun and originality.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 06:48 PM
...
block initial burst
knockback
hold
snare
force bolt spam
ego blades = melee = gimp vs any decent pvp ranged framework

also cant imagine something crit through my 3k at lvl 20 in two hits. Con superstated makes wonders
also they almost forced to get ego form or shadow form to do that damage and thats also means auto gg in duel vs any decent opponent.

but yeah ego blades sometimes do 2 crits around 600 damage each back to back, rather scary but in team game or duel its non factor - no def passive means you are forced to block a lot or die.

What are you talking about, I duelled two different ones, both did 2k damage per hit.

Full charge sure, tapping, not so much. We have to stand still to charge and its not a short charge either, so what are you doing wrong to let yourself get hit with it multiple times in a row? Seriously this whole thread stinks of user errors and whine before thoughts.

Whats needed is for other melee classes to brough up to the level of Ego Blades, were already disadvantaged enough being melee in a range dominant game.


Every ego blade strike does at least 1k damage, I am talking about level 20-21 characters here.
Yes, I am talking about the ones they casually throw with taps.


If all melees were to get to that level, all ranged characters would reroll, and every npc enemy would get one-shotted.

If you're not that strong, you're doing it wrong.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 06:49 PM
I'm dark...I've completly crippled Ego bladers with Fear, teleportation, condemn...not to mention taking the defense buff defiance, the more damage you take the more damage you're buffed against.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 06:54 PM
Frankly, if any character is standing next to me for more than two seconds I'm either meleeing them or they are charging something up. It isn't that hard to move away. Frankly, I find ego blade users very easy to at least avoid, because they stick out like a sore thumb and get in close constantly.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 06:57 PM
Frankly, if any character is standing next to me for more than two seconds I'm either meleeing them or they are charging something up. It isn't that hard to move away. Frankly, I find ego blade users very easy to at least avoid, because they stick out like a sore thumb and get in close constantly.

Unfortunate fact: I use single blade.
Unfortunate fact 2: They have some pretty badass holds in the ego build, ones that let you take a whole combo from those blades o-crit.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 06:58 PM
Good thing I'm ice/all over the place and don't let anyone come near me, eh? I think that the OP needs to find the magic range thing that has melee so frustrated.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 07:00 PM
Ermm...you shouldn't be dying to Melee characters in PvP unless you don't know how to use your powers or you've chosen powers that don't allow you to deal with them.

I'm level 30 and my EBB has crit on a mob for 3k at most. It was fully charged and the mob had a debuff to Ego damage. If I simply tap the power it does around 600. I can tap it again and again and again, but by the second tap I should be held or immobilized in some way and dying. Sure...I can break hold quickly if I use certain cooldowns but apparently hold resistance doesn't quite work anyways so I could just be perma held. Having no real range this is a problem.


Don't whine about melee damage. The entire concept behind melee damage was that it's supposed to be more powerful than ranged damage because you have to be right next to the target. I've seen ranged attacks do just as much which slightly angers me but as I don't constantly stay in PvP I don't have much of a problem with it.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 07:02 PM
No it isn't.You haven't been PvPing in T4 then.

T4 PvP is nothing but "Who can get their hold to stick and then land Trident of Elemental Mastery first, GG."

There is no strategy there.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 07:05 PM
Ermm...you shouldn't be dying to Melee characters in PvP unless you don't know how to use your powers or you've chosen powers that don't allow you to deal with them.

I'm level 30 and my EBB has crit on a mob for 3k at most. It was fully charged and the mob had a debuff to Ego damage. If I simply tap the power it does around 600. I can tap it again and again and again, but by the second tap I should be held or immobilized in some way and dying. Sure...I can break hold quickly if I use certain cooldowns but apparently hold resistance doesn't quite work anyways so I could just be perma held. Having no real range this is a problem.


Don't whine about melee damage. The entire concept behind melee damage was that it's supposed to be more powerful than ranged damage because you have to be right next to the target. I've seen ranged attacks do just as much which slightly angers me but as I don't constantly stay in PvP I don't have much of a problem with it.

lol this is a joke right??I'm a level 40 Single Blade and my biggest hit i ever did was 1900.Your level 40 doing 3k crits?I'm sorry but that says broke to me.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 07:09 PM
not from personal experiance but from talking to a few ego bladers to plan my build:

Yes these kind of hits are possible but they require:
a) Shadown Form
b)High Dex (either by Super stating it or more likely through gear)
c) ld blades active either from IW (unreliable) or Ego Surge (on a timer)

a and b there make ego bladers doing this glass cannons - they WILL drop very fast to people who see them coming - your best bet is to focus fire them every time they pop their head up, this is a team game after all

since you said you are single blade heres some tips - superstat con, get a few holds, roots or snares of your own and use them often and block the first attack if you can - sure if they have taken the adv it will stun you but Breach costs a lot of power and its going to be tough on the Ego user to keep hitting constantly with it if you block when you can

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 07:10 PM
lol this is a joke right??I'm a level 40 Single Blade and my biggest hit i ever did was 1900.Your level 40 doing 3k crits?I'm sorry but that says broke to me.

I'm going to say that these were big, rather large and lucky crits and then probably get insulted and possibly flamed. However, I have also heard that there is a balance between the ego weaponry attacks and the other melee sets that isn't exactly...tuned.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 07:15 PM
easiest way to not get killed by a ego blader. fly. even if they jump they can't get more than one hit off you at a time. but melee vs melee..all i gotta say is good luck and i hope you took a good defensive passive and teleport.

my tk blader has difficulty dealing with force/ice users.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 07:19 PM
lol this is a joke right??I'm a level 40 Single Blade and my biggest hit i ever did was 1900.Your level 40 doing 3k crits?I'm sorry but that says broke to me.

but "hitting" 3k crit requires :

TK eruption charged at least to 50% to have a damage buff
2 stack at least of EBB ego damage debuff
an immobile target ( PVE, easy to find.... pvp ... well :p not really THAT Easy )
being under ego surge ( from wit or from the buff )

and maybe shadow form( not sure if it's a necessity though, my TK isn't high enough ) .

We can hit High, but not in an opening, those kind of damages came from sustained attacks.

EBB need to be charged to crit this high, and this charge cannot be done while moving.


i'm pretty sure your 1.9k cirt is more regular than a crazy TK blade crit.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 07:20 PM
lol this is a joke right??I'm a level 40 Single Blade and my biggest hit i ever did was 1900.Your level 40 doing 3k crits?I'm sorry but that says broke to me.

So your relying on crits to kill your opponent? What percentage do you crit?

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 07:23 PM
but "hitting" 3k crit requires :

TK eruption charged at least to 50% to have a damage buff
2 stack at least of EBB ego damage debuff
an immobile target ( PVE, easy to find.... pvp ... well :p not really THAT Easy )
being under ego surge ( from wit or from the buff )

and maybe shadow form( not sure if it's a necessity though, my TK isn't high enough ) .

We can hit High, but not in an opening, those kind of damages came from sustained attacks.

EBB need to be charged to crit this high, and this charge cannot be done while moving.


i'm pretty sure your 1.9k cirt is more regular than a crazy TK blade crit.

The sad thing is its the debuff from EBB you need. In that same time frame a player took to charge EBB so that they could see the big floaty number they could deal more damage with Ego Weaponry.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 07:23 PM
not from personal experiance but from talking to a few ego bladers to plan my build:

Yes these kind of hits are possible but they require:
a) Shadown Form
b)High Dex (either by Super stating it or more likely through gear)
c) ld blades active either from IW (unreliable) or Ego Surge (on a timer)

a and b there make ego bladers doing this glass cannons - they WILL drop very fast to people who see them coming - your best bet is to focus fire them every time they pop their head up, this is a team game after all

since you said you are single blade heres some tips - superstat con, get a few holds, roots or snares of your own and use them often and block the first attack if you can - sure if they have taken the adv it will stun you but Breach costs a lot of power and its going to be tough on the Ego user to keep hitting constantly with it if you block when you can

My build is fine I have over 7k HP and around 80% dodge and It's a quick death if I try to go toe to toe with one .

Blocking isn't going to help if you are fighting anyone that has a clue how to PvP.

Most EBB build have over 250 END so it isnt hard for them to spam it.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 07:27 PM
So your relying on crits to kill your opponent? What percentage do you crit?

My crit is 40%,I use Lighting Reflexes so my Dex has to be high.

my stats are.

Str-148
Dex-283
Con-105
EGO-75

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 07:33 PM
well youll find most Ego users wont have 7k health, wont have 80% dodge and will drop very quickly when under fire.

plus if you have 7k+ health then how are you dieing from "2 3k hits"? - me thinks you doth protest too much

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 07:33 PM
Yeah its the new FoTM OP build people are useing,soon to be nerfed im sure.

It's the not so new lazy thought process for fixing things, lets counter the opposition by beating it to death with a nerfbat!

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 07:36 PM
Something that still bugs me about ego blade breach, WHY DOES IT HIT TWICE?!

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 07:36 PM
well youll find most Ego users wont have 7k health, wont have 80% dodge and will drop very quickly when under fire.

plus if you have 7k+ health then how are you dieing from "2 3k hits"? - me thinks you doth protest too much

Well they are spaming it and I get 3-4 times by it each doing around 2-3k crits.I don't really care what you say or think.I have seen it done and other people have to.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 07:38 PM
Something that still bugs me about ego blade breach, WHY DOES IT HIT TWICE?!

I like to know also,but these people on here will tell you its working like it should and you should just learn to block.

I made one right now just so I can see what they are doing to get this kind of hits.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 07:39 PM
but "hitting" 3k crit requires :

TK eruption charged at least to 50% to have a damage buff
2 stack at least of EBB ego damage debuff
an immobile target ( PVE, easy to find.... pvp ... well :p not really THAT Easy )
being under ego surge ( from wit or from the buff )

and maybe shadow form( not sure if it's a necessity though, my TK isn't high enough ) .

We can hit High, but not in an opening, those kind of damages came from sustained attacks.

EBB need to be charged to crit this high, and this charge cannot be done while moving.


i'm pretty sure your 1.9k cirt is more regular than a crazy TK blade crit.

No, having all that will give you a 7k crit and a 3k normal hit. Not knowing this is evidence that you don't in fact know what the hell you are talking about.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 07:40 PM
Nice to see some people with sense and a brain have stepped into this conversation now.

As pointed out, to do massive damage we have to be glass cannons build wise, and have to prep to do it with several skills and a form. Its not like EBB is the only factor, its just the easiest way to unleash the preperation needed for the strikes.

Points have been made and proven, just let this one die now, it failed miserably.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 07:41 PM
My crit is 40%,I use Lighting Reflexes so my Dex has to be high.

my stats are.

Str-148
Dex-283
Con-105
EGO-75

So it's a useful crit, ie will significantly increase damage in a sustained attacked, but not reliable. In other words it will be useful when spamming an attack but not so useful on charged attacks. You can easily go three attacks in a row without a crit. So charging up EBB for the bigger floaty number, which by the way is less DPS then just tapping it, can result in a massive hit but usually not.

I do have a few questions about the stun of EBB since I only use it for the debuff.
Does the stun apply only when the opponent blocks the charged EBB or anytime a charged EBB hits? Is the stun inherent or do you need an advantage.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 07:43 PM
oh i know its done i said that in my first post - what you arnt getting is there are options availble to you which you are ignoring and instead coming here and basically crying for mummy (sorry but your last statement got my back up)

the people who are doing this are very weak on health and defences - hold them and let loose with your own high hitting attacks and they wont be doing it to you.

your bigest problem of course is you are melee (and im guesing your build focus's solely on melee) ego blades will work best against tagets who have a hard time keeping them at arms length (read melee) - ive yet to meet a ranged user who had any problems keeping a Ego user at bay (or any melee for that matter) with kb's, holds and dominating them

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 07:44 PM
I like to know also,but these people on here will tell you its working like it should and you should just learn to block.

I made one right now just so I can see what they are doing to get this kind of hits.

I made one shortly before the last patch and have just been spamming breach all the way along, it's beyond stupid how powerful that ability is.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 07:45 PM
So it's a useful crit, ie will significantly increase damage in a sustained attacked, but not reliable. In other words it will be useful when spamming an attack but not so useful on charged attacks. You can easily go three attacks in a row without a crit. So charging up EBB for the bigger floaty number, which by the way is less DPS then just tapping it, can result in a massive hit but usually not.

I do have a few questions about the stun of EBB since I only use it for the debuff.
Does the stun apply only when the opponent blocks the charged EBB or anytime a charged EBB hits? Is the stun inherent or do you need an advantage.

its an advantage and as far as i know it works on taps as well

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 07:49 PM
the people who are doing this are very weak on health and defences - hold them and let loose with your own high hitting attacks and they wont be doing it to you.


Except that they're not. They have TK shield rank 3, which provides more defense than any other block power in a lingering effect on all side (because it's bugged). They are free to stack more heavily on active defenses due to the fact that they only need this one attack to **** all over people. They can be more liberal with their advantage points as once they have breach at rank 3 and a crippling challenge power they are in the set for what they need to win.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 07:53 PM
oh i know its done i said that in my first post - what you arnt getting is there are options availble to you which you are ignoring and instead coming here and basically crying for mummy (sorry but your last statement got my back up)

the people who are doing this are very weak on health and defences - hold them and let loose with your own high hitting attacks and they wont be doing it to you.

your bigest problem of course is you are melee (and im guesing your build focus's solely on melee) ego blades will work best against tagets who have a hard time keeping them at arms length (read melee) - ive yet to meet a ranged user who had any problems keeping a Ego user at bay (or any melee for that matter) with kb's, holds and dominating them

I don't have a hard time with range people,it isn't hard to root or hold them them.

Don't give my that very weak crap,Before the respec i was a Electric Form with Tk shield build with around 2500 HP at 40 and I could farm 20+ mobs so easy and never lose that much HP.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 07:55 PM
you have a point with tk shield - it is bugged and its only a matter of time before it is fixed but that doesnt negate the fact the ego user will have far less health - you claim 7k health - id suspect most ego users will be under 3k health - thats a big difference in survivabilty

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 07:59 PM
Last Bash i just did the Ego guy had around 6k HP so he was in Guardian mode.

And 7k HP isn't alot I can get it up to 10K with my tank items.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 08:03 PM
your bigest problem of course is you are melee (and im guesing your build focus's solely on melee) ego blades will work best against tagets who have a hard time keeping them at arms length (read melee) - ive yet to meet a ranged user who had any problems keeping a Ego user at bay (or any melee for that matter) with kb's, holds and dominating them

I think you pointed out the problem with Ego blades right here. Why would one melee be so much better against all others? Can you point out anything about the other melee sets that make them viable compared to Ego Blades?

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 08:06 PM
Except that they're not. They have TK shield rank 3, which provides more defense than any other block power in a lingering effect on all side (because it's bugged). They are free to stack more heavily on active defenses due to the fact that they only need this one attack to **** all over people. They can be more liberal with their advantage points as once they have breach at rank 3 and a crippling challenge power they are in the set for what they need to win.

MMM as far i can remember the tk shield it's not bugged.
Maybe "Frontal" can be misunderstood but if i remember right it say that it protect from frontal damage and not from DoT.
Tried it and still any direct it is lowered but any DoT attack not. was in lingering effect and reducing a hell from every direct hit but gotted a dot that deal like 400-500dmg each tick and died of it even whit lingering effect on.
By the way i have a tk build and EBB.. yes it can do insane damage but still it need some preparation. And usually a EBB is not so easy to put up because it need meele range and when you charge it up if the target move slightly out of range the charge up it's useless.
The times i used like full bar of end and doing nothing to a target are countless. Every ranged has many ways to keep away a tk user that's mostly meele like: shotgun or knockback spam... every force user can go out of my breach whenever they want, root, holds, fly, just kite away.
And i want to see people that take only EBB to do this kind of damage without a heavy dex/ego build, ego surge or ID blades, telekinetic eruption buff.
Hell even if you look closely at Ego weaponry it can dish out many cheap hits and if crit go up for insane damage at quick speed (critting at level 26 for 500 dmg each hit up to 700... lucky but it happens).
The problem itself is not EBB but the other meele set that compared they go down.
In my point of view it need to be true the statement that meele dmg it's always more than ranged because they need to keep the range (And when there are PLENTY of way to keep someone out of range it's really frustrating) i will be glad to see every other meele set putted in line with what's now ego blades set.
It's already normally frustrating to follow a ranged guys but when you can't do nothing because you're chain held, knockbacked everywhere when you finally reach the target or putted up in a corner without the possibility of doing ANYTHING (yes i'm looking at you concussor beam.. it does no damage but it's damn annoying being pushed in a corner everytime)

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 08:07 PM
I made one shortly before the last patch and have just been spamming breach all the way along, it's beyond stupid how powerful that ability is.

Well if it stuns on a tap with the advantage then that would be a large source of why its more powerful.

But it truly is less DPS and far lower DPE then Ego Weaponry. It takes 3 taps to max the debuff. If you want to see more raw damage then switch back to Ego Weaponry, it also gains from the debuff.

I didn't test out the stun since the description (prior to opening day power reset :D) says it only works when the opponent blocks. I will have to reread the description and see if I can test it in the powerhouse.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 08:10 PM
You don't know Crypitc to well then,they aren't going to take the time to buff the other 4 melee classes that are broke to hell.They will just nerf Ego Blades.

I dont think the DMG is bad on EBB if it had a 20 sec CD like the rest of the big hitting(joke) melee atks do.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 08:15 PM
Click teleport.

Use Smoke Grenade.

That said, the only time I died to such a build was i the PvP arena and I quickly learned to stay well out of his reach. He is fragile, and once your team members flag him as a dangerous striker, he begins dieing... Lots. Because he cannot take on the whole team, and as has been mentioned above, he is fragile.

So... I would be spamming my AE's doing self healing and off-DPS supporting another on my team, but when this guy showed up, we'd melt away from his reach and all target him, DPS'ing him into slags for a quick point.

As for duels, many builds are really poor for burst DPS. This build isn't. He will win unless your build is specifically created to do burst DPS even better or is a really, really tough defensive build. And in the latter case, you might be unable to kill him at all.

This does necessarily mean the build is broken... Just that it is a highly effective dueling build.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 08:17 PM
You don't know Crypitc to well then,they aren't going to take the time to buff the other 4 melee classes that are broke to hell.They will just nerf Ego Blades.

I dont think the DMG is bad on EBB if it had a 20 sec CD like the rest of the big hitting(joke) melee atks do.

Well but having a cooldown remove the whole point of EBB. The Stacking Debuff.
The problem is not EBB but other meele set that do less dmg compared to ranged and must be putted in line with Ego Blades Breach.
Hell i don't think it's that hard to remove the CD from the Dragon's Hit or give like a 2 sec CD and change the stat of the powers to have the same damage of Ego Blades Set

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 08:20 PM
lol I love the people that play this game,they will always tell you to block more/your build sucks or you just arent playing right.

People use to say Pyre was fine(the ones that used it)but every smart player knows a AoE shouldn't be doing that much DMG.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 08:23 PM
Well but having a cooldown remove the whole point of EBB. The Stacking Debuff.
The problem is not EBB but other meele set that do less dmg compared to ranged and must be putted in line with Ego Blades Breach.
Hell i don't think it's that hard to remove the CD from the Dragon's Hit or give like a 2 sec CD and change the stat of the powers to have the same damage of Ego Blades Set

I don't see any MA tree doing 3k+ hits anytime soon.I think one of the Devs just put the wrong number in for EBB,it wouldn't be the first time they messed up.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 08:27 PM
didnt go past first page, TBH

Ego blades are melee, and you can laugh at them as melee, i quite enjoy watching my EOTS Reflect their ego frenzy into their face while plinking them for a LOT of reflexive damage between it, bio shield, and enrage

"Sorry, did you just kill yourself on my awesomeness? Yeah, that happens a lot, dont worry about it" and they /ragequit

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 08:32 PM
If you let a ego blades user that knows what he's doing stay on you for long you are gonna go down.

That doesn't mean ego blade breach is necessarily op. It is the strongest single target attack telekinesis gets. Annihilation is a good attack w/ the advantage, but it still isn't the hardest hitting attack.

Breach can spam some pretty serious dps, but well really you should be blocking while they are tap spamming it. If they charge it up then it's really obvious you should block. If you are held you might want to invest in a damage buff power. Ever notice the break free effect listed in them?

Whether that effect is strong enough to pop you out of a hold I don't know, but it should be.

I guarantee my munitions, or ice, or fire, or elec builds would soundly trounce an ego blade breach spammer.

Even my might character would stomp one. Build up defiance from his attacks, pop masterful dodge, pop enrage, pop a damage buff, hold him and laugh as I send my haymaker straight through his cranium lol.

All my ranged characters would trivialize an ego blades user because they all have high dex and ego so put out massive hurt from range and they pop out of intangible holds really fast.

Having said all that you are gonna have to face the fact that a character with that much damage will kill you from time to time. You are gonna make a mistake or they catch you off guard or whatever.

But, as has been said they are glass cannons. If you are prepared for them you can put them in the hurt locker.

And if you think ego blade breach is the only hard hitting ability think again. Alot of people are not used to facing fully geared level 40 characters in pvp.

I guarantee an enraged+damage active boosted fully charged OR tap spammed haymaker is gonna make you wince.

An electric form tap spammed gigabolt is nasty.

A full clip of two gun mojo with every other hit critting is nasty.

And on and on.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 08:37 PM
lol I love the people that play this game,they will always tell you to block more/your build sucks or you just arent playing right.

People use to say Pyre was fine(the ones that used it)but every smart player knows a AoE shouldn't be doing that much DMG.

Well i'm not saying to block more or learn 2 play (still keeping at bay and killing a tk user is much easier with some smartness) but still i don't see problem in Ego Blades.
The problems rely on the other meele set and this "Nerf This" thing i don't like it at all.
Why nerf everything instead of balance what don't work out to the level of what work fine?
A meele user MUST do this kind of damage for counter the range advange of others and it's really easy to keep a meele away from you.
The right choice would be to buff up the others meele set damage to be in pare with ego blades but as all we know people tend to prefer a nerf game instead of a balance out things.
As all we know the numebers for ego are right and are the others meele set that are the underdog but still it will probably be nerfed to hell with the excuse of using wrong numbers because people tend to rather a nerf instead of a right balance. This kind of damage from ego blades are long time in from closed beta, open beta, live, live nerf patch, and all the new fixing patch. It was always able to do this kind of damage and before it was able to do much more with the scaling with endurance.
I remember them doing constantly from 4k to 6k damage with shadow form and everything in open beta with a endurance/ego build (and with end superstatted it was really spammable).
We know that cryptic are not in for good input and good balance but still i hope that they see that the problem don't rely in ego blades but in all the others meele set instead.
(And by the way i still get perma-helded, chain knockbacked, insane amount of damage from ice (Not 3k ok but still i die in matter of seconds), half health bar from minimines if i don't block, being critted for 800-900 each hit by chainsaw)

And yes look at haymaker. insane dps and with the advantage it can cut out ANY heal and screw any regeneration user out

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 08:39 PM
So how many here are PvPin in BASH?

My Ego guy is 11 now and its just sad how much DMG he does.I wish my SB did this much at low levels.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 08:44 PM
Don't let them stay in melee for long. There are several ways to get out of/prevent holds or interrupt the combo. Resistance stacking is by far the easiest. Get about 200+% hold resistance and you won't be rooted very often. Teleport also works pretty well, even when/if it gets nerfed it will be a viable. Charging a knockback/down/up as soon as you see them stack Particle Acceleration (or whatever its called) is also a good way to interrupt the swords as they get cast. I use Uppercut and it works most of the time, since most ego blade users tend to stack dex/ego and lack the strength of resist it.

Oddly enough Mighty Leap is a wonderful counter to it. They root you, so you target somebody else and leap away. You'll still be snared/rooted at the end of the leap but you'll be wasting their precious snare time. Plus you can use it on enemies at a higher elevation and ditch them that way. To be honest I think ego blades set the bar for where all melee should be right now. When a martial artist gets in your face it should be painful, not annoying.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 08:48 PM
Nice to see some people with sense and a brain have stepped into this conversation now.

As pointed out, to do massive damage we have to be glass cannons build wise, and have to prep to do it with several skills and a form. Its not like EBB is the only factor, its just the easiest way to unleash the preperation needed for the strikes.

Points have been made and proven, just let this one die now, it failed miserably.

Two things...

1> There is no such thing as a glass cannon in the game, because Teleport will always get you out of harms way if you have any skill at all.

2> Who gives a **** how much preparation you have to do, if it's not possible for another melee build like single blade with the same level of prep then it's unbalanced. Especially if they try to make their damage and hence can be 1-2 shot by a ego blade build (the only thing Teleport won't save you from).

Heh... love the last sentence, "nothing to see here folks, move along, no OP'ness here". Way to try (pathetically) to redirect attentions.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 08:54 PM
Two things...

1> There is no such thing as a glass cannon in the game, because Teleport will always get you out of harms way if you have any skill at all.

2> Who gives a **** how much preparation you have to do, if it's not possible for another melee build like single blade with the same level of prep then it's unbalanced. Especially if they try to make their damage and hence can be 1-2 shot by a ego blade build (the only thing Teleport won't save you from).

Heh... love the last sentence, "nothing to see here folks, move along, no OP'ness here". Way to try (pathetically) to redirect attentions.

Yeah like the Devs even read the forums,then nerf the powers base on what people are saying lol.I still don't get why these people are trying so hard to say it isn't OP.

You can do the same thing with Electric Form and rank2 Lazer Sword with Particle Acc.With the DMG debuff stacking I would do 2k+ hits and with each hit it would be more.

People don't get they data mine everything in the game.I'm sure they can look up and see what powers are doing the most DMG in PvE and PvP.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 08:58 PM
No clue if someone has said this already but EBB hits twice because that's what it's supposed to do. You stick the blades in for one hit then rip them out and that does the other hit.

Stop complaining about it. It's a melee power. The last thing that needs to happen is a melee power that is rather balanced being nerfed.

Please nerf Mini-mines...chain-saw(or w/e it is)...uhh...pretty much any AoE cone Melee. Also nerf build-up ranged attacks that do horrendous damage because...well they're ranged doing too much damage. Nerf holds. Nerf everything.


Edit: O' yah and stop trying to balance the powers of one tier by comparing it to another. Ego powers do ego damage. Single blade powers to physical damage.

In order to be as effective as you're saying you suffer in PvE while doing fine in PvP. The game isn't built around the PvP (which was explicitly mentioned).

Comparing Single Blade Powers to Ego Blade Powers is like comparing Electricity to Energy. They have different concepts and different utility.

Edit again: O' and I got a 3k crit at level 30, not 40. And it WAS a lucky crit. The mob also had 3 debuffs stacked. I've never crit like that before and I haven't crit like it again. Also, since they recently made Ego blade scale to Ego the crit severities rise. Mine went from somewhere around 40% to 108% because I got Ego instead of Str/Con/Dex...which was working before but I decided to respec.

So my crits are doing a lot because I have lots of Ego. Maybe that's the issue...NOT the power. At 161 Ego my crit severity is 108% at level 31. Maybe it should be 85% or so...maybe it's fine...I don't know.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 09:05 PM
Yeah like the Devs even read the forums,then nerf the powers base on what people are saying lol.I still don't get why these people are trying so hard to say it isn't OP.

People don't get they data mine everything in the game.I'm sure they can look up and see what powers are doing the most DMG in PvE and PvP.

Because it isn't OP? Do you even know what sort of powers you have to take to get melee ego attacks to be useful?


Here's a tip. In order to activate ID Blades, which is the "power" that does lots of damage, and is actually what you're complaining about, you either have to take a power called "Ego Surge", which only activates them for a small amount of time, and is on a cooldown, or you have to take the passive, which activates ID Blades any time you go into combat, and gives a very small amount of defense.

An Ego Blades based TK character is very difficult to build properly, compared to most sets, which just require you to take the best choices out of the set. It also leaves them open to concentrated fire from other players. A good TK build also requires you to dump alot of power points and advantage points into certain powers to have decent survivability in PVP. That doesn't leave much for luxury powers, and makes them kind of predictable.


Having played against, and as an Ego Blades user, I can say they aren't OP. If someone is stupid enough to block spam around an Ego Blades user, then they're going to get breached, which means they're going to get stunned, and comboed into the ground, just like any other strategy in the game.

The reason people get killed isn't because Breach is OP, but rather because Breach is the block bypass skill in the TK power-set. If you take the advantage attached to it, Breach will do a short stun on anyone who blocks, lowering the block and leaving them open to attack. That means that you can counter a Breach user by dropping your block and backpedalling/running a short distance away, wasting the charge.


The trick to dealing with ID Blade users is to be very evasive. If you're ranged, keep out of range of their melee. If you have a shield with a linger effect, block to make their holds hard to use. Lock them down with their own holds, too, and then pummel them into the ground.

If you're playing a melee character, hit them with lots of debuffs. Once TK shield gets "fixed" (It's getting nerfed again.) it'll only block damage that hits you from the front, meaning being evasive while fighting in melee will work against them as well.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 09:06 PM
Two things...

1> There is no such thing as a glass cannon in the game, because Teleport will always get you out of harms way if you have any skill at all.

2> Who gives a **** how much preparation you have to do, if it's not possible for another melee build like single blade with the same level of prep then it's unbalanced. Especially if they try to make their damage and hence can be 1-2 shot by a ego blade build (the only thing Teleport won't save you from).

Heh... love the last sentence, "nothing to see here folks, move along, no OP'ness here". Way to try (pathetically) to redirect attentions.

1> Yes, there is, if you happen to be like my shadowform/IW Dark/Ego blade toon, even in guardian with TP, especially in PVE, you still are a Glass cannon, since you cant regen while in combat

2> I can stand as a DB/PA/Gadget weirds**t tank and watch the ego-blade spamming n00b kill himself on my reflexive damage shields all day long while not taking a single point of damage - Even while held

Ego is an AMAZING damage set....against idiots, they'll stand nice and still and you can just walk up and murder them with a casual tip of your hat, i play an ego/dark nuke-y toon, trust me, i know them

Against any competent melee-user, or any even SLIGHTLY skilled ranger? Ego is about as useful as a tinfoil hat against a tank, they'll out-range you, and outdo you in melee like nobodies business

In fact, my Ego/Dark had a HELL of an epic fight against a weird Might/PA toon (defiant/enrages/spamfest/Debuff) where we both spent a good amount of time chucking each other around with KB and such as we did beating the crap out of each other up close

I mean, sure i could do a heavy hit of damage with frenzy or breech....until he walked away or lunged away (Lol TBL) and then started kicking the crap out of me again

Seriously, LEARN TO COUNTER IT, it's not like COX where you could toggle something like AS on someone and it would hit them pretty much no-matter-what, 99% of the melee in this game can be countered by simply MOVING

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 09:09 PM
I knew from the start SB sucked when I used my respec.I wanted to play a build that isnt going to get hit by the bat only buffed.

It's funny this is just like how the Mini Mines and Pyre threads looked before they got nerfed.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 09:17 PM
What does specific builds being able to counter an Ego blade build have to do with the fact that no other melee build is capable of? Nothing I'm sure.

Ego blade builds use ego damage and single blade uses physical? How does that mean you can't compare them.

90% (if not more) of all defenses affect -ALL- types of damage. The most notable being defensive passives and blocks, hell even gear usually as the exact same resistances for both physical and energy damage.

Now you can't compare Dual Blades to Ego blades, because DB are AoE melee's. Single blade is a single target build concept, just like ego blade. So since damage type doesn't mean anything except for your own buffs, and they are both single target melee frameworks, if you make a dex/ego single blade, how come they can't do as much damage as a dex/ego ego blade?

Because it's not balanced.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 09:23 PM
What does specific builds being able to counter an Ego blade build have to do with the fact that no other melee build is capable of? Nothing I'm sure.

Ego blade builds use ego damage and single blade uses physical? How does that mean you can't compare them.

90% (if not more) of all defenses affect -ALL- types of damage. The most notable being defensive passives and blocks, hell even gear usually as the exact same resistances for both physical and energy damage.

Now you can't compare Dual Blades to Ego blades, because DB are AoE melee's. Single blade is a single target build concept, just like ego blade. So since damage type doesn't mean anything except for your own buffs, and they are both single target melee frameworks, if you make a dex/ego single blade, how come they can't do as much damage as a dex/ego ego blade?

Because it's not balanced.

Except they work off of completely different mechanics, both power-wise, and gameplay-wise.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 09:25 PM
Because it isn't OP? Do you even know what sort of powers you have to take to get melee ego attacks to be useful?


Here's a tip. In order to activate ID Blades, which is the "power" that does lots of damage, and is actually what you're complaining about, you either have to take a power called "Ego Surge", which only activates them for a small amount of time, and is on a cooldown, or you have to take the passive, which activates ID Blades any time you go into combat, and gives a very small amount of defense.

An Ego Blades based TK character is very difficult to build properly, compared to most sets, which just require you to take the best choices out of the set. It also leaves them open to concentrated fire from other players. A good TK build also requires you to dump alot of power points and advantage points into certain powers to have decent survivability in PVP. That doesn't leave much for luxury powers, and makes them kind of predictable.


Having played against, and as an Ego Blades user, I can say they aren't OP. If someone is stupid enough to block spam around an Ego Blades user, then they're going to get breached, which means they're going to get stunned, and comboed into the ground, just like any other strategy in the game.

The reason people get killed isn't because Breach is OP, but rather because Breach is the block bypass skill in the TK power-set. If you take the advantage attached to it, Breach will do a short stun on anyone who blocks, lowering the block and leaving them open to attack. That means that you can counter a Breach user by dropping your block and backpedalling/running a short distance away, wasting the charge.


The trick to dealing with ID Blade users is to be very evasive. If you're ranged, keep out of range of their melee. If you have a shield with a linger effect, block to make their holds hard to use. Lock them down with their own holds, too, and then pummel them into the ground.

If you're playing a melee character, hit them with lots of debuffs. Once TK shield gets "fixed" (It's getting nerfed again.) it'll only block damage that hits you from the front, meaning being evasive while fighting in melee will work against them as well.


My so called big ATK I have to Stack 2 bleeds(5 hits) then charge up and do a big 1220-1400(PvE) around 900 in PvP and its on a CD.O the bleeds also arent 100% they miss alot to.

And i haven't seen and Ego Blade user do any of this,all they do is run in and spam EBB.the DMG res debuff is just mean after the 2ed hit.They don't charge it up or do anything else.

I have seen it done to me and other people all night in BASH so stop trying to tell me all this useless stuff.I'm a PvPer i know how to PvP and have done very well in all the past MMO's I have played.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 09:27 PM
As an Endurance / Recovery Ego Blader (among many other things), I'd say that Ego Blade breach is powerful, but not overpowered. Truthfully, the real imbalance comes in with Dex/Ego builds that can crit for insane numbers ; but, to be honest, most builds have this same effect, and several are even better at it (for example, ego blasters can deal over 7,000 damage crits).

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 09:31 PM
/flame on

Leave us the hell alone. Seriously, it took me ALOT of tweaking to make my Ego Blade playable. We're a one trick pony. We're glass cannons. If we don't kill it quick, we drop.

I mostly PVE. Don't even pretend like PVP in this game is anything meaningful. Go QQ about it on Darkfall, they love the E-Peen PVPer over there.

My suggestion, subscribe to this and ****. That way, when you need a breather from constant PVP, you can have something fun to play.

/flame off

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 09:33 PM
As an Endurance / Recovery Ego Blader (among many other things), I'd say that Ego Blade breach is powerful, but not overpowered. Truthfully, the real imbalance comes in with Dex/Ego builds that can crit for insane numbers ; but, to be honest, most builds have this same effect, and several are even better at it (for example, ego blasters can deal over 7,000 damage crits).

Yes, but we're also uber squishy. To pull off thos kind of numbers, you are forgoing alot of health and defense.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 09:33 PM
/flame on

Leave us the hell alone. Seriously, it took me ALOT of tweaking to make my Ego Blade playable. We're a one trick pony. We're glass cannons. If we don't kill it quick, we drop.

I mostly PVE. Don't even pretend like PVP in this game is anything meaningful. Go QQ about it on Darkfall, they love the E-Peen PVPer over there.

My suggestion, subscribe to this and ****. That way, when you need a breather from constant PVP, you can have something fun to play.

/flame off

My guild is all waiting for **** I can't wait.

Yeah im sure it took alot of tweaking to your Dex and EGO up.

I have yet to see a uber squishy Ego Blade person.Its know hard to pick up other skills to take care of this.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 09:36 PM
Except they work off of completely different mechanics, both power-wise, and gameplay-wise.

Why, because Single blade use bleeds? DoT's are generally meant to do more damage then direct damage because they can be healed through, direct damage can't if it's too high (ie 1-2 shot).

If you want to argue how about you put some substance into it so you at least don't look like someone exploiting an OP'ed power.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 09:37 PM
You know, even with the changes to ego scaling this recent patch, at max ego bonus we're only sitting at about +128 damage on EBB. Are you saying that throughout all of the game, this +128 damage has made ego blades imbalanced? Why all the QQ now? I suspect it's because the pvp-tards saw a buff to ego blades and decided it was time to turn their tears upon it. Honestly, go play ****, Darkfall, or hell, even WoW - Don't ruin the PvE aspect of this game because you can't figure out how to beat a certain framework. The PvP here is just a gimmick to draw in more subscribers.

My ego blades/force character is 34, and I haven't set foot in a PvP match with 'em. I'm still killing slower than some other specs - Namely anything involving mini-mines, or full offensive ele specs.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 09:40 PM
Yes, but we're also uber squishy. To pull off thos kind of numbers, you are forgoing alot of health and defense.

You can't be uber squishy in this game, it's too damn easy to get away with travel powers. The only thing that's going to kill an ego build faster then they can TP away is another ego build.

Edit: Ruin the PvE aspect? Even with a STR/Dex PA/DB build doing WAY less damage then Ego blade can do the PvE is a cake walk. If you can't play without easy mode then go play Hello Kitty Online.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 09:41 PM
You can't be uber squishy in this game, it's too damn easy to get away with travel powers. The only thing that's going to kill an ego build faster then they can TP away is another ego build.

And the only people who cry about teleport being the end all be all are the people who are to slow to figure out how to deal with it.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 09:41 PM
This whole game is a gimmick to draw in more subscribers so they can pay for Star Trek and the other MMO they are doing(DnD).

It's sad to I wanted this game to have PvP like CoH had back in the day with Sg vs SG fights.It could be one of the better PvP mmo's out there if they game wasnt so broke.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 09:44 PM
And the only people who cry about teleport being the end all be all are the people who are to slow to figure out how to deal with it.

Then explain how to deal with it for my Str/Dex PA/DB build.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 09:54 PM
Then explain how to deal with it for my Str/Dex PA/DB build.

The only way I know how is to root or hold them the use a PBAOE that you don't need a target to use.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 09:57 PM
I wonder if an easy fix to EBB would be having the debuff apply based on charge amount?


For instance, charging half-way gets you a 5% debuff rather than a 10% with a tap. A tap gives you one percent. You can stack these three times, but it never goes over 30% anyways (duh). So three taps is just 3% debuff while charging to half three times (each time takes about 1.5 seconds) would mean 15% debuff.


The debuff plays a huge role in how effective the power is in PvE AND PvP. I find it much easier to Charge the attack in PvE, so that shouldn't take too much of a hit. However in PvP charging a melee attack isn't that easy.

Could make the advantage only work the same way. Charge half-way and if the target is blocking they will be stunned. However, if you tap it the advantage won't go off.


Easy fix to a power. The only thing that needs to be touched is the debuff and the advantage mechanic. Not the damage.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 09:59 PM
If you're a ranged player dying to melee in a duel, spec isn't the problem.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 09:59 PM
I wonder if an easy fix to EBB would be having the debuff apply based on charge amount?


For instance, charging half-way gets you a 5% debuff rather than a 10% with a tap. A tap gives you one percent. You can stack these three times, but it never goes over 30% anyways (duh). So three taps is just 3% debuff while charging to half three times (each time takes about 1.5 seconds) would mean 15% debuff.


The debuff plays a huge role in how effective the power is in PvE AND PvP. I find it much easier to Charge the attack in PvE, so that shouldn't take too much of a hit. However in PvP charging a melee attack isn't that easy.

Could make the advantage only work the same way. Charge half-way and if the target is blocking they will be stunned. However, if you tap it the advantage won't go off.


Easy fix to a power. The only thing that needs to be touched is the debuff and the advantage mechanic. Not the damage.

That actually sounds like a very reasonable idea.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 10:22 PM
Why, because Single blade use bleeds? DoT's are generally meant to do more damage then direct damage because they can be healed through, direct damage can't if it's too high (ie 1-2 shot).

If you want to argue how about you put some substance into it so you at least don't look like someone exploiting an OP'ed power.

I already went into great detail on how why people are wrong, and how to counter-act Breach users. Noone appears to have read my post.

I'm definitely not going to re-type all that again. Especially since my post is only two pages off from this one. This sort of topic isn't worth that much effort.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 10:40 PM
The primary reason Ego blader's can manage those numbers is the synergies given from Incisive wit and Shadowform, on top of the fact they are designed to use a high crit/critdmg build.

The debuff from breach is icing on the cake.

Wit enables IDblades.. making their own form pointless and increasing their Ego damage, then they grab Shadowform and get a nice bonus chunk of +ego damage. Then the debuff steps in and increases that all by 10-30% and you get a crazy high number.

The issue isn't the skill, its the synergies tied to it. Melee have no comparable useful forms. All the melee offensives are extremely terrible and always avoided.

They could change/correct/nerf/whatever this particular issue any number of ways. Remove +Ego from sform, remove/alter Wit, or simply change the blade attacks to deal physical damage.

Any one of these will cripple the blade build and place it pretty much on par with all the other crippled melee builds. The only real bonus they'll have is that they at least have a ranged builder.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 11:10 PM
The primary reason Ego blader's can manage those numbers is the synergies given from Incisive wit and Shadowform, on top of the fact they are designed to use a high crit/critdmg build.

The debuff from breach is icing on the cake.

Wit enables IDblades.. making their own form pointless and increasing their Ego damage, then they grab Shadowform and get a nice bonus chunk of +ego damage. Then the debuff steps in and increases that all by 10-30% and you get a crazy high number.

The issue isn't the skill, its the synergies tied to it. Melee have no comparable useful forms. All the melee offensives are extremely terrible and always avoided.

They could change/correct/nerf/whatever this particular issue any number of ways. Remove +Ego from sform, remove/alter Wit, or simply change the blade attacks to deal physical damage.

Any one of these will cripple the blade build and place it pretty much on par with all the other crippled melee builds. The only real bonus they'll have is that they at least have a ranged builder.

If Incisive wit and Shadowform stack then right there is a big bug,you can only have one Energy Form up at a time.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 11:41 PM
If Incisive wit and Shadowform stack then right there is a big bug,you can only have one Energy Form up at a time.

There is no limit to the number of energy forms you can have up at one time. Where did you get the idea you can have only one at a time.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 11:53 PM
I like to know also,but these people on here will tell you its working like it should and you should just learn to block.

I made one right now just so I can see what they are doing to get this kind of hits.


it is working fine the 2 hits you are seeing is for the upswing and backswing-- instead of just one number combined for the attack

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 11:56 PM
There is no limit to the number of energy forms you can have up at one time. Where did you get the idea you can have only one at a time.

From the wording in the power description that says "you can only have one energy form active"?

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 11:56 PM
Well when the Forms have in big bright yellow counts as a Energy Form I though that would mean something if not why even highlight it.

I don't see how that is part of the game,if so I could stack Shadow Shroud with Ego Surge for a big DMG buff.

Archived Post
09-12-2009, 11:57 PM
it is working fine the 2 hits you are seeing is for the upswing and backswing-- instead of just one number combined for the attack

This is ********. Why for example is EBB two hits because of it's animation and Dragon's Wrath is only one hit with the exact same animation?

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 12:00 AM
Well when the Forms have in big bright yellow counts as a Energy Form I though that would mean something if not why even highlight it.

I don't see how that is part of the game,if so I could stack Shadow Shroud with Ego Surge for a big DMG buff.

Energy forms are consumed and/or required for some higher tier powers - Gigabolt (charge), force cascade (power cost reduction) etc.

Thats why powers are listed as energy forms.

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 12:10 AM
So i guess Fire and Ice builds can do this with Ice form/Immolation and Fire Form/Ice Sheath. That doesn't sound right to me that only 3 sets can do this for a DMG buff.

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 12:13 AM
The incisive wit proc effect is not an energy form, it is specally tagged to trigger ID Blades.

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 12:14 AM
With both hits of EBB I could easily do 3k, but I'm afraid you are spouting too many exaggerations. Claiming that TK can have 7k hp in normal gear? No. Changing your mind and saying that they could have 7k in tank gear? Correct, but that would eliminate all of the damage. If you are dying so fast, why don't you put on your tank gear and pvp with 10k hp? Oh that's right, because you aren't a total moron. I'm all for fixing what is broken, but you are coming off as a cry baby with barely any legitimate reasons. Enjoy having single blade as your only option, because it's not like Champions Online allows you to take any skill from any other class. :cool:

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 12:15 AM
The incisive wit proc effect is not an energy form, it is specally tagged to trigger ID Blades.

The buff icon says its a energy form.

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 12:17 AM
With both hits of EBB I could easily do 3k, but I'm afraid you are spouting too many exaggerations. Claiming that TK can have 7k hp in normal gear? No. Changing your mind and saying that they could have 7k in tank gear? Correct, but that would eliminate all of the damage. I'm all for fixing what is broken, but you are coming off as a cry baby with barely any legitimate reasons.

Someone should read first then try to flame.No one said anything about a Ego Blade with 7k Hp doing 3k DMG.and it was 10k in Tank gear.

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 12:23 AM
Someone should read first then try to flame.No one said anything about a Ego Blade with 7k Hp doing 3k DMG.and it was 10k in Tank gear.

You're right, I got lost in the text. And I do know it was 10k in tank gear.

edit: Since you have 7k hp and 80% dodge, how do you die so fast? It would take at least 3 fully charged EBB crits to kill you. And the 250 end on a typical TK dps build? Considering you need to focus on ego/dex for dps, I find that hard to believe.

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 12:23 AM
I still have yet to see why you are bothered, just pick other skills to counter ego....

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 12:35 AM
I still have yet to see why you are bothered, just pick other skills to counter ego....

I'm bothered cause no power should be spammable and do 2-3k hits.The only other power that is even close is Lazer Sword but it takes alot more END when you spam it,but you can still get in 6-7 hits if you have end/int superstat.

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 01:11 AM
I'm bothered cause no power should be spammable and do 2-3k hits.The only other power that is even close is Lazer Sword but it takes alot more END when you spam it,but you can still get in 6-7 hits if you have end/int superstat.

okay, get a toon to 25 or so and spec this:

Kin darts with Inc. wit
Any end user (I used PA's for the "Downrange Disaster" Adv.)
Ego blade Frenzy (Unnerving Rage)
Thunderbolt Lunge (-travel)
Lightning Reflexes (r2/R3)
Ice wall (Advantaged until the next patch, then not)
Mini mines (Wall of fire)
Immolation (Blazing body)

Then do this:

Proc wit, Hit immo, hit ice wall, TBL In, hit minibombs, Hit and hold ego frenzy, and then DDisaster gauntlet them if they are still standing to run away

Assuming you figured out that this is Dex/Ego superstats in tank mode, thats literally an instantaneous kill at over 7k damage AT LEVEL 25

Combo in enrage, Unbreakable (With enrage advantage) and a good heavy hold + whatever else you want at higher levels, and then you have something for people to complain about

I played this in beta on my character "Kinzsefeur" and it was known as the "Implosion" build, because ineveitably, the explosion of damage would catch you completely off guard out of nowhere, and one-shot you for ~12k in less than 2s of fighting

And people are whining about people using breech because they cant be bothered to take anything like unbreakable to completely counter the combo? (EG: You can use UB while held, and it breaks it faster, and enrages you with the adv, so that ego-blader that ran in to kill you? Yeah, now they have the "KILL ME" sign over their head and you are untouchable)

99% of the time the ego blader is dead before they even realize you broke the hold that quickly

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 01:12 AM
pick up ice breath with frost bite advantage. tap ability, costs 30? energy, aoe, 100% chance to chill everything it hits (chill reduces movement speed by 95%)

completely counters melee.

okay, get a toon to 25 or so and spec this:

Kin darts with Inc. wit
Any end user (I used PA's for the "Downrange Disaster" Adv.)
Ego blade Frenzy (Unnerving Rage)
Thunderbolt Lunge (-travel)
Lightning Reflexes (r2/R3)
Ice wall (Advantaged until the next patch, then not)
Mini mines (Wall of fire)
Immolation (Blazing body)

Then do this:

Proc wit, Hit immo, hit ice wall, TBL In, hit minibombs, Hit and hold ego frenzy, and then DDisaster gauntlet them if they are still standing to run away

ice wall does the bulk of that damage, you dont need mini mines, ego blade frenzy, immolation or any of that other junk to do that :p

ice wall + laser sword (with the debuff adv) ticks for 1k+ damage per second with force eruption buff =p

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 01:18 AM
okay, get a toon to 25 or so and spec this:

Kin darts with Inc. wit
Any end user (I used PA's for the "Downrange Disaster" Adv.)
Ego blade Frenzy (Unnerving Rage)
Thunderbolt Lunge (-travel)
Lightning Reflexes (r2/R3)
Ice wall (Advantaged until the next patch, then not)
Mini mines (Wall of fire)
Immolation (Blazing body)

Then do this:

Proc wit, Hit immo, hit ice wall, TBL In, hit minibombs, Hit and hold ego frenzy, and then DDisaster gauntlet them if they are still standing to run away

Assuming you figured out that this is Dex/Ego superstats in tank mode, thats literally an instantaneous kill at over 7k damage AT LEVEL 25

Combo in enrage, Unbreakable (With enrage advantage) and a good heavy hold + whatever else you want at higher levels, and then you have something for people to complain about

I played this in beta on my character "Kinzsefeur" and it was known as the "Implosion" build, because ineveitably, the explosion of damage would catch you completely off guard out of nowhere, and one-shot you for ~12k in less than 2s of fighting

And people are whining about people using breech because they cant be bothered to take anything like unbreakable to completely counter the combo? (EG: You can use UB while held, and it breaks it faster, and enrages you with the adv, so that ego-blader that ran in to kill you? Yeah, now they have the "KILL ME" sign over their head and you are untouchable)

99% of the time the ego blader is dead before they even realize you broke the hold that quickly

Why would I want to this when all i have to do is go back to my Electric form build and just spam Gigabolt and watch Death Arc kill mobs for 2k AoE.

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 01:23 AM
Why would I want to this when all i have to do is go back to my Electric form build and just spam Gigabolt and watch Death Arc kill mobs for 2k AoE.

What the hell are you whinging about then :confused:

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 02:00 AM
Before I even get started, is this seriously a "nerf a melee set" thread? I mean, seriously?
______

logic 101:
lol this is a joke right??I'm a level 40 Single Blade and my biggest hit i ever did was 1900.Your level 40 doing 3k crits?I'm sorry but that says broke to me.
+
I knew from the start SB sucked when I used my respec.I wanted to play a build that isnt going to get hit by the bat only buffed.
=
You took the weakest most gimp set you could find, constrain yourself to only staying within that set and not dipping into other power pools like everybody else, and then you complain about a carefully min/max'ed melee build that don't suck as much as yours?

I'm sorry, but that rates as either "learn2play" or "learn2troll" take your pick.
_______

Overall, I am appalled at the lack of knowledge about the telekinesis set in this thread, on BOTH sides.

In order to do those rediculous hits with EBB, you don't just take 1 power and run in and spam it as a flavor of the month n00b power. Nothing could be further from the case.

to do 'maximum' damage with EBB, you need ALL of the following:
you need kinetic dart with advantage 'incisive wit' for the ego surge proc
you need Endurance/Ego (squishy)
you need shadowform from the dark set (squishy)
you need to be in avenger stance (squishy)
you need to let kinetic dart fire enough times to proc a 15% chance buff (time consuming)
or - you could use 'ego surge' which lasts a few seconds and has a 2 minute cooldown
you need to tap the power 3 times to max out its debuff on the target (time consuming)
you need to fully charge the power and hit your target praying it doesn't take 2 steps back.
and then you need to get a lucky Crit with your high crit severity but no Dex to make it reliable.

That's min/max'ing and a multistaged attack strategy... NOT a button mashing "I win" power.
_____

The only thing that makes EBB powerful, is that the game is only 2 weeks old and everyone ("everyone") is still a n00b at pvp. In 2 months, everyone will know that you do NOT try to use block on a Ego Blades character, since they will likely stun you for it. Once people catch on that just stepping aside is the way to go, and waiting for ego surge to wear off (matter of seconds)... then Ego Blades won't seem overpowered at all, and the min/max'ed pure offense "glass cannon" ego blade types will not feel so overpowered anymore. Currently their only real advantage is in opponent ignorance.
_____

People arguing that there is no such thing as a "glass cannon" in this game because teleport exists and nobody should ever die to anybody if they know how to use teleport... if this were true, pvp matches would only end when one side got tired and logged out to go to bed. You can run & hide all you want, ultimately, someone is going to go down eventually. And doing very high burst melee damage, but being fragile as wet tissue paper, and needing to get several things to go your way in order to pull off your attack, and then run up to melee distance while being largely defenseless, you're going to be the one going face down as often as you're the one doing an impressive kill (convincing your opponent to start a sob story nerf thread).
_____

Martial Arts characters should be the only ones in the game complaining that ego blades is too overpowered for them to pvp against easily... but they should be complaining just as much about electric, fire, force, ice, archery, gadgets, munitions, power armor, telepathy, might, darkness, sorcery, and supernatural.
And the reason is because martial arts is in a truly pitiful state right now.

Unfortunately, until the Dev's buff the daylights out of martial arts (not holding my breath), part of "learn2play" will be knowing to avoid martial arts like the plague.

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 02:02 AM
To do super damage with EBB you have to stay in place (u'll like hold..long holds), you must have great DEX/EGO (for crits) or lot of END to spam the skill tapping (so not all ego builds do that dmg, many ppl are end/con for ex.)
And you'll still see ppl survive 'cos they have defensive builds with lot of defensive stuff and heals.
And you can block EBB, you can tp on EBB, you can snare melee and they are in big troubles (so you have to get other powers too or stay in a good team).

I said, wanna nerf EBB or decrease debuff %? OK, but improve melee powers (especially skills that need charge or you hit the air if the opponent is running).

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 02:07 AM
Posting this again.

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 02:08 AM
To do super damage with EBB you have to stay in place (u'll like hold..long holds), you must have great DEX/EGO (for crits) or lot of END to spam the skill tapping (so not all ego builds do that dmg, many ppl are end/con for ex.)
And you'll still see ppl survive 'cos they have defensive builds with lot of defensive stuff and heals.
And you can block EBB, you can tp on EBB, you can snare melee and they are in big troubles (so you have to get other powers too or stay in a good team).

I said, wanna nerf EBB or decrease debuff %? OK, but improve melee powers (especially skills that need charge or you hit the air if the opponent is running).

Too bad the game isn't supposed to be balanced around PvP. This ability is broken in PvE far more than it is in PvP.

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 02:13 AM
First of all...they are no flavor of the month...lol. In PvP at 40 I hardly see anyone use them. You want FotM? It's taser arrow, Ice , chi resurgence and 360dex+ LR or Invuln with some other crap.

The only people that would be complaining about Ego Blades in PvP are other melee. And I personally think that's because other melee are pretty sub-par by comparison. I wouldn't really expect a nerf. In three full days of apocolypse I've seen roughly 4-5 other Ego Blades out there besides myself. And a whole lot of Ice.

Too bad the game isn't supposed to be balanced around PvP. This ability is broken in PvE far more than it is in PvP.

I don't know what level you're at or how many instances you've run, but try using EBB charged against almost any boss, just get into melee range, and see how many times you get hammered. Then try to spam it and see how often you're hiding behind a shield, and for how long at a time. Melee are at a distinct advantage against the majority of bosses in this game. If their melee attacks don't have an equal amount of advantage, what's the point?

I'm sick of people trying to balance this game around "PvE leveling" and frick'n henchmen. That entire part of the game comes and goes to quickly to be balanced around. Ugh, you ... casuals.

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 02:19 AM
First of all...they are no flavor of the month...lol. In PvP at 40 I hardly see anyone use them. You want FotM? It's taser arrow, Ice , chi resurgence and 360dex+ LR or Invuln with some other crap.

The only people that would be complaining about Ego Blades in PvP are other melee. And I personally think that's because other melee are pretty sub-par by comparison. I wouldn't really expect a nerf. In three full days of apocolypse I've seen roughly 4-5 other Ego Blades out there besides myself. And a whole lot of Ice.



I don't know what level you're at or how many instances you've run, but try using EBB charged against almost any boss, just get into melee range, and see how many times you get hammered. Then try to spam it and see how often you're hiding behind a shield, and for how long at a time.

I'm sick of people trying to balance this game around "PvE leveling" and frick'n henchmen. That entire part of the game comes and goes to quickly to be balanced around. Ugh, you people.

GOOD THING THAT THIS ABILITY THAT CAN EASILY HIT FOR 16K ON A 2 SECOND CHARGE ISN'T UNBALANCED IN PVE HUH?

I don't know what level YOU are or how many instances YOU run, but with defiance and good constitution with ANY of the lingering shields you will be able to dps race down even the bosses in Andrith.

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 02:21 AM
GOOD THING THAT THIS ABILITY THAT CAN EASILY HIT FOR 16K ON A 2 SECOND CHARGE ISN'T UNBALANCED IN PVE HUH?i

I'm level 40, geared, and this doesn't hit for anywhere NEAR 16k. I have NO IDEA where you're getting your information, but that is the most BS statement I've ever heard in my life.

Flaming troll. Where's some fire retardant when you need it.

I'm actually going to go log in right now and Hit some henchmen with it and post the results. lol. 16k...

Ahahahahahaa...

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 02:24 AM
GOOD THING THAT THIS ABILITY THAT CAN EASILY HIT FOR 16K ON A 2 SECOND CHARGE ISN'T UNBALANCED IN PVE HUH?

ok, now you're just trolling.

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 02:26 AM
I'm level 40, geared, and this doesn't hit for anywhere NEAR 16k. I have NO IDEA where you're getting your information, but that is the most BS statement I've ever heard in my life.

Flaming troll. Where's some fire retardant when you need it.

I'm actually going to go log in right now and Hit some henchmen with it and post the results. lol. 16k...

Ahahahahahaa...

look at my attachment in my previous post, you pinhead.
8k on the first of two hits.

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 02:34 AM
look at my attachment in my previous post, you pinhead.
8k on the first of two hits.

It's that EASILY keyword that makes your statement ridiculous. For him to do that kind of damage, he would have to be in shadowform with incisive wits procced and crit on top of it. So he's basically a glass canon, and anyone at range could easily wipe the floor with him.

To do 16k he would have had to have crit twice, not to mention....you should have been blocking, and why the hell were you standing still for the full two seconds?

I'd say that's either bad timing on yours for not blocking, moving or teleporting before/during a hold, or you were just standing there dumbly for no reason - or a stroke of bad luck, which is always possible. Sorry but I don't sympathize, and my comment was aimed at PvE, not PvP anyway. So I have no idea why you responded to my initial post in the first place.

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 02:39 AM
It's that EASILY keyword that makes your statement ridiculous. For him to do that kind of damage, he would have to be in shadowform with incisive wits procced and crit on top of it. So he's basically a glass canon, and anyone at range could easily wipe the floor with him.

To do 16k he would have had to have crit twice, not to mention....you should have been blocking, and why the hell were you standing still for the full two seconds?

I'd say that's either bad timing on yours for not blocking, moving or teleporting before/during a hold, or you were just standing there dumbly for no reason - or a stroke of bad luck, which is always possible. Sorry but I don't sympathize, and my comment was aimed at PvE, not PvP anyway. So I have no idea why you responded to my initial post in the first place.

Wow. I'm talking about PvE here. Not only do mobs have generally lower damage resistance than players, but they do not block and do not move away from you if you have their agro. I also posted the other screen of the guy in his defensive build (read: no shadowform) where he normal hit for 8k total. Something you clearly do not know about EBB as a power is that when one of the two hits crits, so does the other.

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 02:42 AM
omg my caster setup cant hang in melee range against a pure melee character ! nerf plix !

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 02:46 AM
Wow. I'm talking about PvE here. Not only do mobs have generally lower damage resistance than players, but they do not block and do not move away from you if you have their agro. I also posted the other screen of the guy in his defensive build (read: no shadowform) where he normal hit for 8k total. Something you clearly do not know about EBB as a power is that when one of the two hits crits, so does the other.

I actually never realized that about EBB - the critting that is. That's good to know, and thanks.

BTW, did you know that any power with 1k base damage is going to be able to hit for that amount with the proper stats scaling it, and there are AoE's that can do that amount of damage? Sure EBB hits twice, I understand that, but it's melee and single target. Are you even comparing this to anything else or just flaming and screaming omg! randomly?

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 02:49 AM
I actually never realized that about EBB - the critting that is. That's good to know, and thanks.

BTW, did you know that any power with 1k base damage is going to be able to hit for that amount with the proper stats scaling it, and there are AoE's that can do that amount of damage? Sure EBB hits twice, I understand that, but it's melee and single target. Are you even comparing this to anything else or just flaming and screaming omg! randomly?

Should I compare it to other melee abilities that do similar things? Should I compare it to Dragon's Wrath, which has the same animation, hits only once, and does a mere fraction of the damage for the same energy and charge time? Should I compare it to ANY other melee ability that has to charge option? Because if you believe that the absurdly higher damage of EBB is justified in the face of those then... just wow.

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 02:52 AM
Should I compare it to other melee abilities that do similar things? Should I compare it to Dragon's Wrath, which has the same animation, hits only once, and does a mere fraction of the damage for the same energy and charge time? Should I compare it to ANY other melee ability that has to charge option? Because if you believe that the absurdly higher damage of EBB is justified in the face of those then... just wow.

No I don't think you should compare it to melee. I think you should compare it to ranged. I actually lol'd when you mentioned comparing it to other melee. That was worth this whole, pointless conversation with you.
Because there's a reason no one is using melee besides ID blades. And it's not because ID blades are OP. I just compared it to any number of AoE's without a CD for you already. I think my point is made, and I'm going to stop bumping your uninformed thread now.

Because it never deserved one in the first place.

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 02:53 AM
No I don't think you should compare it to melee. I think you should compare it to ranged. Because there's a reason no one is using melee besides ID blades. And it's not because ID blades are OP. I just compared it to any number of AoE's without a CD for you already. I think my point is made, and I'm going to stop bumping your uninformed thread now.

Because it never deserved one in the first place.

How, how are you comparing a melee ability to anything but other melee abilities?!

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 02:58 AM
How, how are you comparing a melee ability to anything but other melee abilities?!

Ugh, I'm going to respond to this because this is by far one of the most ridiculous questions I've ever heard.

Allow me to enlighten you. If you haven't noticed melee attacks are inferior to ranged attacks in nature.
If ranged attacks, let alone AoE attacks have the base damage of Ego Blade breach for equal to or less than the charge/maintain time, well then why the hell would you use Ego Blade breach?
I really hope you realize how silly your question is before you read this post. It's common knowledge that the martial arts trees are inferior to everything else in this game. They need to be brought in line with other powers, nerfing ID blades to their level is only going to create another problem. Not solve one.

You are what we call a provincial minded dichotomous thinker.
Mk? Mk.

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 03:01 AM
Ugh, I'm going to respond to this because this is by far one of the most ridiculous questions I've ever heard.

Allow me to enlighten you. If you haven't noticed melee attacks are inferior to ranged attacks in nature.
If ranged attacks, let alone AoE attacks have the base damage of Ego Blade breach for equal to or less than the charge/maintain time, well then why the hell would you use Ego Blade breach?
I really hope you realize how silly your question is before you read this post. It's common knowledge that the martial arts trees are inferior to everything else in this game. They need to be brought in line with other powers, nerfing ID blades to their level is only going to create another problem. Not solve one.

You are what we call a provincial minded dichotomous thinker.
Mk? Mk.

Because they don't have the base damage of EBB. Nothing does. It is the single hardest hitting power in the entire ****ing game.

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 03:04 AM
It's common knowledge that the martial arts trees are inferior to everything else in this game. They need to be brought in line with other powers, nerfing ID blades to their level is only going to create another problem. Not solve one.


that kinda sums up the main thrust of my "wall of text" from a couple pages ago.

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 03:07 AM
yea i dont know about you , but when i was still playing mine in pvp , i was getting kited alot cuz the name of teh game is pure ranged dps , our big dmg skill is a CHARGED skill which is virtually worthless against any pvper whos using ranged powers , so were lucky or the other guy sucks , i admit im not mr.ultra mega awesome at pvp , but i get in peoples faces and give them hell and i still get smacked silly

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 03:07 AM
Because they don't have the base damage of EBB. Nothing does. It is the single hardest hitting power in the entire ****ing game.

LOL, seriously? what game are you playing? any of the really powerful AoE's can easily triple EBB's damage cumulatively, and without having to gimp defenses, proc an energy form, and stack a debuff, before charging it and praying the target doesn't move.

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 03:08 AM
LOL, seriously? what game are you playing? any of the really powerful AoE's can easily triple EBB's damage cumulatively, and without having to gimp defenses, proc an energy form, and stack a debuff, before use.

Name one..

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 03:09 AM
It's common knowledge that the martial arts trees are inferior to everything else in this game. They need to be brought in line with other powers, nerfing ID blades to their level is only going to create another problem. Not solve one.

This!!!

Said it at the bottom of the very first page, all melee classes need bringing to the level of ego blades,CO is so heavily range dominant, i really cant believe this thread is still going to this extreme.

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 03:10 AM
Because they don't have the base damage of EBB. Nothing does. It is the single hardest hitting power in the entire ****ing game.

First of all, I was wrong. I checked its so called "base damage" with incisive wit procc'd which was 1k (That's an ID blades and EGO surge damage boost btw). It's only 300-660 normally. And I'm not sure if this tooltip is including anything else, but I'm going to ASSume it's not. Although, if it included Incisive wits, it's possible it's including other things as well.

Also, I'm going to call you out on that last statement, because you're full of it. TK eruption, on the other hand, has a base damage of 960 NORMALLY (there I just named one for you) and is an AoE. And that's just one off the top of my head. I'm sure I could search for several more.

This just proves you're a troll. There's no way you could know the base damage of every power in the game. This isn't junior highschool. Everyone doesn't believe you just because you can shout it with ****'s.

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 03:15 AM
First of all, I was wrong. I checked its so called "base damage" with incisive wit procc'd which was 1k (That's an ID blades and EGO surge damage boost btw). It's only 300-660 normally. And I'm not sure if this tooltip is including anything else, but I'm going to ASSume it's not. Although, if it included Incisive wits, it's possible it's including other things as well.

Also, I'm going to call you out on that last statement, because you're full of it. TK eruption, on the other hand, has a base damage of 960 NORMALLY (there I just named one for you) and is an AoE. And that's just one off the top of my head. I'm sure I could search for several more.

This just proves your a troll. There's no way you could know the base damage of every power in the game. This isn't junior highschool. Everyone doesn't believe you just because you can shout it with ****'s.

I have, in fact, researched this subject and yes, there are some powers (read: sniping powers) that in order to do their higher BASE damage requires either **** tons more energy, an energy form active, or a 3-4 second charge and none of them debuff their own damage type, increasing future attacks.

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 03:17 AM
I have, in fact, researched this subject and yes, there are some powers (read: sniping powers) that in order to do their higher BASE damage requires either **** tons more energy, an energy form active, or a 3-4 second charge and none of them debuff their own damage type, increasing future attacks.

Did you not read what I just said? I've already named an AoE with 300 more base damage without a buff, and has more range. Are you challenged mentally? I haven't even researched this and I know of one just by looking at my power bar. My...14 out of how many powers that are available. What does that say about your whole little researching argument?

As I said, we're not in JH, people don't believe you just because you say you research something, etc.

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 03:21 AM
Did you not read what I just said? I've already named an AoE with 300 more base damage without a buff, and has more range. Are you challenged mentally? I haven't even researched this and I know of one just by looking at my power bar. My...14 out of how many powers that are available. What does that say about your whole little researching argument?

As I said, we're not in JH, people don't believe you just because you say you research something, etc.

It does 300 more base damage and costs 3 times as much energy to do that damage. And doesn't get stronger each time you use it.

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 03:26 AM
It does 300 more base damage and costs 3 times as much energy to do that damage. And doesn't get stronger each time you use it.

It's also a ranged AoE that doesn't require the target to stand completely still. I'm waiting for the punchline that will make this a point.
EDIT: Did I mention it also Buffs your damage and knocks back??? So you're wrong...it actually does get stronger when you use it!


I've already made my points clear to anyone unfortunate enough to stumble across this thread. Now I'm going to do the forum a favor and hop off this trollercoaster, waving good-bye as it plunges into oblivion.

I should have never bumped it this much in the first place, honestly. At least some people will scrounge some valuable information from the counter-arguments to your posts.

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 03:45 AM
Sigh, less and less incentive to play my ego blader. I utterly destroy ego bladers on my fire in PVP, just don't block them when you see them coming. You know they have breach, how is this difficult? Anyone with range will screw an ego blade (or any other melee) character up unless they're incredibly stupid.

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 03:59 AM
Sigh, less and less incentive to play my ego blader. I utterly destroy ego bladers on my fire in PVP, just don't block them when you see them coming. You know they have breach, how is this difficult? Anyone with range will screw an ego blade (or any other melee) character up unless they're incredibly stupid.

Did you not get the memo? Actually thinking about what you do in PVP is wrong....

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 04:56 AM
Did you not get the memo? Actually thinking about what you do in PVP is wrong....

By the way we say that doing so much damage with one single power is not balanced? Have you ever tried Ego Blast from telepathy? It can hold and ranked 3 with high ego/dex build and a throw at energy sword i've seen it crit for 8k damage with a single attack.
Not to mention that you're ranged

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 05:14 AM
Did you not get the memo? Actually thinking about what you do in PVP is wrong....
You can't run from someone who traps you in a purple baloon of critfest, really.

By the way, if they upgrade all martial arts to ego blades level, everyone will just one-shot each other. It'll be like the other ego blade vs ego blade battles.
First one to hit wins.

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 05:16 AM
The problem is that the damage debuff powers are a tad too strong.
Its a good idea to have them in since it encourages combos eg. hit three times to stack a debuff then use your hard hitting power.

Ego breach has a couple of problems though.

First its already hitting like a truck before the debuff comes into play. People aren't using it as a combo base but alone as it will kill people just as certainly.

Secondly even if they survive the three taps they are debuffed strongly for a fair amount of time. Any paranormal damage user attacking them will be laughing all the way to a kill.

Thirdly the id blades mechanic of the tk set is adding an extra damage buff. Incisive wit, the advantage for the tk energy builder is probably a bit too strong as it gives you the best part of Ego form. This allows the user to grab a defensive passive and have best part of the tk form bonus or grab shadow form and have the damage advantage of 2 offensive forms running each time it procs.


You can do similarly broken amounts of damage if you can hit someone with laser sword three times and then follow up with a strong blast.
Laser sword is less broken as its cost rises on each use making using it alone too costly, the debuff lasts a short time and it obviously doesn't get a 2 swords proc.

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 05:16 AM
What the hell are you talikng about. Since when do range attacks more damage? they never did

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 06:02 AM
Ego Blade Breach is strong, but as someone else mentioned Ego Blast is insane as well from 100ft and it has a stun element. Many powers are very strong I've found and we can't have them all on one character.

I have included the links to a couple of screenshots of my ego blast so you can see just how strong it is.

One Ego Blast is for over 30k the other one is lower around 25k .. and it has 100ft range. This was against the level 40 dummies in the powerhouse.

I can take many more screen shots to show the trend but there are other very powerful skills in this game beyond Breach and its very tough to stay in range with it to apply the full debuffs.

These shots were taken with nothing but the powers selected during leveling up, no consumables or anything fancy, just the skills available; but I am not going to fully explain it beyond that.

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/5451/screenshot2009091306361.jpg

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/2096/screenshot2009091306285.jpg

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 06:03 AM
I did not read the whole thread but a good Ice build or telepathy build has all the tools to defeat a tk ego build. My main is a lvl 34, he had ego blades before they became FotM. I rolled a telepathy framework that does very well against them.

I find it kind of funny seeing some players who have names like Pyro using no fire only ego blades because they repeced into it after being hit by them. It cracks me up when they to run up on you then get rocked because they don't know what the hell they are doing.

To beat a ego blade user 99.9% of the time all you need to do is beat him to the hold with any decent framework. There are a couple of abilities in the game that are used just for interrupts that I never see anyone use. If an ego blader can not root you he is going to have a tough time trying to kill you.

-Phenom

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 06:13 AM
And the only people who cry about teleport being the end all be all are the people who are to slow to figure out how to deal with it.

I'm a teleport user, and I'll be the first to say that there are no appropriate ways to deal with teleport. (unless you count pre-emptive abilities as "appropriate". That, however, would be ********.)

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 06:34 AM
I just went and rechecked my math and tested the damage versus the dummies.

1. If anyone is spamming EBB after the first 3 hits then you should thank them for not understanding what DPS means.
2. The window for getting the "big" crits is very narrow. The duration of the peak effect of the Incisive Wit proc is 8.3 seconds and takes, on average, 2.54 seconds to proc. The duration of buff from Eruption is 30 seconds and can not be refreshed. So there is only 22.38 seconds of peak buffing available during that 30 seconds. That assumes perfect timing of course.
3. A TK player would need a lot of INT or END (of at least 272) in order to spam EBB during the 8.3 second window. You would need an END of 136 to spam the charged version. The charged version gives you the bigger floaty numbers. Alternatively you could spam Ego Weaponry for 35% more damage vs EBB (tap) and 78% more damage then EBB (charged) and only use 107 energy during that time period.


The Big Reveal
The paranormal damage buffs seem to be buffing the "debuffs". In other words the 30% debuff is being enhanced by the paranormal damage buffs. So essentially it appears your getting quadruple buffed, once to your ego blades and once to the debuff, and the debuff is multiplying your buffed ego blades. I did this with zero critical percentage so there was no chance of a crit messing with combat log damage.

Here are the givens.
+55% from REC & END super stats
+17% from Eruption
+29% from Shadow Form
+42% from Ego Surge
+14% from Id Blades

+30% "debuff" of target from 3x EBB.

To establish a base I attacked a dummy by hitting 3x with EBB, charging to full with Kinetic Darts then spamming the Ego Weaponry combo. All of the damage after the debuff in the combat logs were approximately 30%. For example 64 (50).

Then I added the Incisive Wit proc and started seeing this 151 (100) often on my Id Weaponry attack. The debuffed number should have been 130. However if you apply Ego Surge and Shadow Form buff to the debuff you get 30% x (1+(.42+.29)) = 51.3%.

So based on that theory then I used Eruption first and charged EBB during the peak buff period to see what i would get.
My unmodified charged EBB in advanced description is 125 points.
My total buffs are +157% at peak on EBB. My total paranormal buffs to "debuff" are 88%.

So I should expect to see the following 502 (321) from Id Blade Breach in my combat log on the level 20 dummies. The character I tested with is level 18.
Instead I had the following examples: 495 (290) , 521 (305), 547 (321), 484 (284).

The "debuff" multiplier is consistently around 70.5% instead of the 56.4% I was expecting. Its almost like the super stat buff was getting applied when I used Eruption.

When I went to the purples (level 30 and 40) the multiplier was consistently around 43%. Which it to be expected from the level debuffing but still way higher then it should be.
I tried doing the grays but by the time I got finished buffing/debuffing they were dead :(, ah well.

Those are with out criticals. I expect the critical multiplier is working on the "debuffed" damage thus increasing the big floaty number even more.

With practice using the TK holds I can see getting off one charged EBB per TK proc. And then with a really high DEX you can only expect to crit about 40% of the time.

Instead you could us the TK hold and spam Ego Weaponry. In that same time doing 78% more raw damage and just about guarantee a crit on one of the attacks in those 1.97 second it took you to charge EBB.

But that is just me using math and applying it to the game.

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 06:42 AM
lol this is a joke right??I'm a level 40 Single Blade and my biggest hit i ever did was 1900.Your level 40 doing 3k crits?I'm sorry but that says broke to me.

You have a Bleed in Single Blade that does damage based off of a % of that targets health. It's by far more damaging than EB when you add the numbers. Try it on one of the lvl 40 dummies in the power house. You bleed will tic for 1900 a pop and tic for at least 12 seconds. Thats a total of 22,800 damage in that time. Ego damage is only high because Ego is also used for Critical damage % as well. So likely anyone who wants to spec in Ego will get the same high % damage critical attacks. Stop with the crying and learn to find a way around your problems. If you get beat in pvp often by Ego Blade users and anyone else, just don't pvp. Otherwise you have the most damaging move in the game as far as pve goes in Single Blade (have to use the advantage that increases the bleed)

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 06:50 AM
I am gradually becoming convinced that either A) people really don't have a clue, or B) there are a fair number of people just trolling this thread just for fun... it's really hard to say which.

I'm done trying to talk sense into people here though, I think the nerf/cry crowd has way too high of an Ego stat to actually listen to what people are saying.

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 07:20 AM
I've always been TK, since beta i've fiddled with build after build.

EBB on my level 29 Toon can get 1.8k+ Crits with no other buff other than Incisive Wit and the EBB Debuff

But can and do all the time are two different things. Dummies stand there. It's easy to build the debuff up and wail away and say "LOOK AT THE NUMBERS".

In PvP with a full Ego Hold best I do is Taps or one full charge. Any players with half a mind moves slowly back out of melee range when they realize you are standing still to do any attack. It's not hard to avoid. In general the animation is easy to see.

The issue though is the chance crits on Holds. nothing you can do about that. It happens. But that's regardless of any build. It just shines better with this. (Tap Crits can get 800 or so with Wit proc per hit, Ego/Dex SS btw)

EBB is a *great* burst ability if you can get it off. In Actual Practice I do more Ego Blasts and Blade Frenzies with EBB as a second thought since it's unreliable against a descent player (not referring to holds that is). It does come in handy in a Group battle though when another player is attacking somebody else and you can get a full charge off on them since they don't notice you.

Also, people like to throw the PvE argument in here. Who are you kidding, the only reason EBB is talked about is due to PvP Damage. Problem is so many other abilities have been nerfed people are falling back on other abilities now and realizing "omg this ability that has been here all the time is good but I could never fit it into my minimine, drones, pyre build with condemn".

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 10:22 AM
Also, people like to throw the PvE argument in here. Who are you kidding, the only reason EBB is talked about is due to PvP Damage. Problem is so many other abilities have been nerfed people are falling back on other abilities now and realizing "omg this ability that has been here all the time is good but I could never fit it into my minimine, drones, pyre build with condemn".

Amen. I agree, no one was thinking about EBB because they were too busy with mini mines and pyre pre-nerf.

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 10:31 AM
OH NO Melee has a powers set that can do damage NERF IT! NERF IT NOW!! My holds, slowdowns, travel powers, blocks , and numerous other abilities can not stand up to the awesomeness of this one melee power set. They actually have one hit that does as much damage as most ranged attacks that's just not right.

Sure they have to catch me and get through everything I can throw at them to do it but it's still just not fair.

Devs please stop this honorable injustice!

Grow up guys range has everything handed to them. Try playing some of the melee power sets in PVP(or in general) then come back here an whine.

At the very least every melee power set should be brought up to Ego blades as a base.

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 10:46 AM
Make BB Movable While Moving

Add Slight Cooldown once 3 buffs are applied and next BB Is done to the target (keep buff timer the same)

Don't change damage

???

Dunno. Just a thought on "balance". But than being able to move with it might make it imbalanced. ha gg my rational

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 11:21 AM
OH NO Melee has a powers set that can do damage NERF IT! NERF IT NOW!! My holds, slowdowns, travel powers, blocks , and numerous other abilities can not stand up to the awesomeness of this one melee power set. They actually have one hit that does as much damage as most ranged attacks that's just not right.

Sure they have to catch me and get through everything I can throw at them to do it but it's still just not fair.

Devs please stop this honorable injustice!

Grow up guys range has everything handed to them. Try playing some of the melee power sets in PVP(or in general) then come back here an whine.

At the very least every melee power set should be brought up to Ego blades as a base.

Yeah, pretty much.

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 11:21 AM
lol, next we will see NERF CLAWS!! when people realize at level 40 you can get 5k crits with Dragon's Claws, without the stacking and with less charge time than EBB.

Also, if you take the block stun part you can't rank it up to 3, so thats 20% less damage than a rank 3 EBB. I think people are mixing things up. Although, in my experience most whiners on the forums don't really play the game very much. They read other whine threads and pick up the banner.

I don't know if it was mentioned but to the guy posting the huge Target Dummy hit: Just so you know I can get any ability to hit stupid hard if Igo punch a level 1 dummy.

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 12:39 PM
I'm a Might user with a splash of Power Armor (Invuln, Chest Beam, Unbreakable)

I face EBB users all day long. They do HUGE CRITS(But not that 3k ****) against:

Dex/Ego melee users with offensive stance AND offensive passive
Range users in offensive stance with an offensive passive

In both cases above neither used an ACTIVE when held.


In the same time I can Chest-beam 1 target for -10% all damage reduction (better than EBB's debuff since it works for ALL damage)
Iron Lariat (Pull to)
Upper-cut (knock-up)
Half-second charge Haymaker
(Squishy dead)




The main reason you see EBB users 'tear' through someone is they have no F'in defense.

I've literally had 2 EBB users on me spamming away, debuffing and my health doesn't spike down that fast.

Con/Str Superstats & Invuln & High defense items = Worthless EBB.


Anyone who specs as a glass cannon shouldn't QQ when they get hit with a strong ability.

Those same Dex/Ego users that do the HUGE crits, generally die in less than 5 seconds and generally rely on Teleport-spamming to get away.


EBB is fine on my end. I'm on the receiving end of it all day.

Minimines needs its cooldown switched from 6 seconds to 9 seconds. If they nerf the damage anymore it'll be useless. It needs a bit longer Cooldown.

I'm sorry but melee is always weak early-game in EVERY MMO. wait till other Melee find out about High level crafted Power replacers.

THEN range will QQ.

You think EBB is bad? LOL :)

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 01:02 PM
in this thread:

GUYS WAITING FOR **** WHILE PLAYING MOST GIMPED MELEE PVP POWERSET WITHOUT SUPERSTATTED CON AT T4 WHILE PRETENDING THEY ARE COMPETENT AND COOL AND STUFF TRY TO JUSTIFY NERF TO A MELEE SETUP.

CONFIDENT PEOPLE KEEP TELLING THAT EGO BLADES ARE STILL GIMPED IN PVP ALMOST AS ALL MARTIAL ARTS POWERSETS JUST A BIT BETTER NOW DUE TO ONE TRICK PONEY OFFENSIVE PASSICE (LOL) NO CON SUPERSTATTED (ROFL) GLASS CANNON MODE.

WHINERS AND RANDOM FOLKS WHO SAY IRRELEVANT AND SOMETIMES RELEVANT STUFF.

the question of the thread was completely and utterly answered on its first page.
more news at page 16!

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 01:35 PM
in this thread:

GUYS WAITING FOR **** WHILE PLAYING MOST GIMPED MELEE PVP POWERSET WITHOUT SUPERSTATTED CON AT T4 WHILE PRETENDING THEY ARE COMPETENT AND COOL AND STUFF TRY TO JUSTIFY NERF TO A MELEE SETUP.

CONFIDENT PEOPLE KEEP TELLING THAT EGO BLADES ARE STILL GIMPED IN PVP ALMOST AS ALL MARTIAL ARTS POWERSETS JUST A BIT BETTER NOW DUE TO ONE TRICK PONEY OFFENSIVE PASSICE (LOL) NO CON SUPERSTATTED (ROFL) GLASS CANNON MODE.

WHINERS AND RANDOM FOLKS WHO SAY IRRELEVANT AND SOMETIMES RELEVANT STUFF.

the question of the thread was completely and utterly answered on its first page.
more news at page 16!

Im waiting for ****(well not really waiting cause I've been play C-**** for awile) have superstat Con with a gimp melee build.

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 01:45 PM
OP is deliberately trolling, lying, or just mistaken.

The ONLY way Ego Blade Breach hits as hard as he describes might be if the player is running with Shadowform or maaybe EgoForm... in which case they aren't running a passive defense like Regen, etc, and they should be pretty squishy.

Squishy character that hits hard with a single target melee attack? What's the problem? Go complain about Regeneration, or Pyre, Minimines, or some other FotM build.

I can't believe you are complaining about a melee ability being OP in PvP. /boggle

Stop trolling.

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 02:06 PM
Im waiting for ****(well not really waiting cause I've been play C-**** for awile) have superstat Con with a gimp melee build.

how the f did you end with more str then con in your build?

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 02:48 PM
how the f did you end with more str then con in your build?

I'm trying out the new buff to STR for the 20% dmg buff.

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 03:21 PM
to counter EBB......

Force Eruption, knock back, knock back, and knock back. You can use Force Eruption any time even in stun!

Archived Post
09-13-2009, 06:15 PM
to counter EBB......

Force Eruption, knock back, knock back, and knock back. You can use Force Eruption any time even in stun!

you can also TP in stun forbidding any targeted damage totally negating hold time
and remember when you reopen on this guy with Pyre+Shotgun spam he will be forced out of fight instantly.