PvP (Hero Games) needs a LOT of work (suggestions)

[Archived Post]

1) Map is not good
--Cage makes Sigils/Circles somewhat ridiculous. Add even 10 feet to the cage and maybe we can get the casters away from their circles
--Only one map! Seriously?
--Ceiling means you cannot pan up and out with the camera. There are many times when you cannot see above your character if you aren't a flyer. You can't make a ceiling field/zone, without actually making a ceiling?

2) Ice needs to be toned down.
--Slow effects do not grant a slow resist. WTF? Even knockback gives knockback resist.
--Also, what stat do I raise to resist slow?
--If you think ice is "working as intended", that's fine, but ice ends up filling my entire screen. Why does this matter? My auto-target STILL TARGETS ICE, even though I have it selected to "Never Auto-Target Objects."
This is because "never auto-target objects" is a lie. At least the "never" part is. It considers icicles to be "specific important objects" and so I can never target the enemies, just the stupid ice.
ICICLES ARE NOT "IMPORTANT!" Actual pets I could understand (although I still disagree, why kill the pets when killing the master kills all the pets?)

2a) Ice issues aside, it's possible to spend 33% of the match Held. I think CoH dropped PvP most CC powers by 75% or so, and gave damage boosts as compensation.

3) There are far too many places to get stuck.
--The silly crates and barrels lining the walls are created with little 1 foot nooks and crannies surrounding/between them. This simply creates hundreds of areas to get stuck on the map. I guess I could bind a key to /stuck. That's really lame.
--The poles that run along the chainlink fence create little pixelated areas where you can get stuck. Anyone knocked back into the wall can potentially stick there like velcro.

4) There are times when I cannot move into 1st person view. This only happens in the arena.
--I don't prefer 1st person, but sometimes there's a brief need. [Arbitrary ceilings plus flying characters would be one.] I have had times where closing up (zooming the mouse wheel, even on accident) fills the screen with my characters head. Even in "wide open" spaces where I know I'm not stuck.

5) Joining and Quitting (and AFK) need work.
--It's so easy to get hosed by "teammates" who quit or do nothing during the game. Even 5-on-4 is generally impossible. I've had games where for the first minute I'm the only one on my team inside. That would be fine if I got like 25x the rewards. It would still be impossible, but whatever. There needs to be some kind of compensator for unequal teams, including people AFK in the spawn room.

6) HERO Games noob mission
--I think the HERO Games mission rewards you for simply joining a game. As soon as you're in, you can quit. People do.
--Presumably the idea behind the Hero Games grinder quest is to force people to experience PvP and hope that they like it. Which means that: A) If they can simply quit, they aren't experiencing it. B) By quitting, they potentially ruin it for people who are trying it out for the first time.
--It would make more sense to set it to 2 or 3 wins. A) Winning is more fun. B) Requiring a win requires you to try to get better, and helps you feel good about your build.
--Hero mission goes from a good idea from levels 6-10 to a terrible idea at level 11. This is because PVP is terrible at level 11. [See next topic]

7) PvP is just stupid from levels 11-15+, 21-25+, 31-35+
--What happens is, you get boosted to 20, 30, 40...but you don't get better Charactersistcs to go along with it. The worst level to be is anything ending in a 1.
--PvP is completely nonsensical and not fun at all at these threshold levels.
--Simply check your Characteristic-tied powers before you go in, and after you go in. They all drop. Same goes for stuff like crit chance and crit damage.
--PvP needs to be set at FIVE level intervals, not 10. I assume the arena works without regard to shard. There should always be enough people, particularly with the notification system..if there's not, you'll be notified. If PvP sucks so badly that it can only support enough interest for 4 arenas (40, 30, 20, 10) then PvP needs work. Work on it.
--You could even have it [I]reverse-sidekick you, that way you can have level 20 be levels 17-22 (with levels 21 and 22 reverse sidekicking).
--Another option, albeit not a good one, is to pair teams by ACTUAL level...before boosting them to the threshold level ending in 0. At least this way both teams will have equally gimped characters.

There is no way that a boosted 11 is on par with a real 20 based on any mathematical criteria whatsoever. You would need a MAJOR boost to make an 11th level character the equivalent of a 20th level character:
--Missing power (14), power (17), power (20)
--Missing talent (12), talent (15), talent (18)
--Missing power advantage (16), advantage (19)
--Missing Characteristic Focus (13) !!!
--Missing better equipment, power replacers, consumables, etc

[Same goes for 30 and 40, particularly given that at 21 you can start crafting custom equipment, so a few levels of better equipment can be a huge difference.]

[8] I would have added something about PvP money being worthless, but obviously somebody figured that out.
Also, do we all have to be luchadors? I know luchadors are currently a little bit kitschy, but that won't last.

[Archived Post]

there are five maps. cage in tier 0/1, BASH and hightech in tier2, BASH, lava, stronghold in tier3.

[Archived Post]

9) Another one I forgot to mention is that Follow is disabled in the arena.
--Given the very limited visibility/issues in the arena, Follow becomes pretty important. Or would...
--Can't think of any reason for it to be disabled.

[Archived Post]

They seriously need to fix qeiueing and everything for the UTC lava temple. As it is now, I am yet to have a match go nomally. usually the match starts with one side getting some kills, then the other side quits and you are stuck sitting there either waiting for that stalemate dialogue to pop up, or you just kill yourself and quit as well.

Im about to be level 40 and I still have not played a single full match in the UTC lava temple because of this.

[Archived Post]

1) Map is not good
--Cage makes Sigils/Circles somewhat ridiculous. Add even 10 feet to the cage and maybe we can get the casters away from their circles
--Only one map! Seriously?
--Ceiling means you cannot pan up and out with the camera. There are many times when you cannot see above your character if you aren't a flyer. You can't make a ceiling field/zone, without actually making a ceiling?


Like someone above me said there are 5 maps.

Most MMO's do intervals of 10. Except alot don't even have the boost to 20/30/40 whatever the limit is on that current interval. 5 would be ok, but I don't think it is necessary.


Also I posted a pvp map idea. I don't know if the devs even read it, but if you want to take a look feel free.

link - http://forums.champions-online.com/showthread.php?t=45285

[Archived Post]

[=
2) Ice needs to be toned down.
--Slow effects do not grant a slow resist. WTF? Even knockback gives knockback resist.
--Also, what stat do I raise to resist slow?
--If you think ice is "working as intended", that's fine, but ice ends up filling my entire screen. Why does this matter? My auto-target STILL TARGETS ICE, even though I have it selected to "Never Auto-Target Objects."
This is because "never auto-target objects" is a lie. At least the "never" part is. It considers icicles to be "specific important objects" and so I can never target the enemies, just the stupid ice.
ICICLES ARE NOT "IMPORTANT!" Actual pets I could understand (although I still disagree, why kill the pets when killing the master kills all the pets?)

2a) Ice issues aside, it's possible to spend 33% of the match Held. I think CoH dropped PvP most CC powers by 75% or so, and gave damage boosts as compensation.



Ice is fine.

It is an effect, do you get clinging flames resist? No. Oh how about negative Ions? Sorry. You don't get KB resist from force blast either. They are all working as intended.

To resist slow you get Con and block. If you aren't dying they ignore you.

Do not use CoH references past i12. In i13 they removed mez protection altogether, which was a terrible idea. If we wanted to make dps we would roll dps, let a CCer do its job.

[Archived Post]

1. There are enough maps for now.
2. Ice is problem for you because of 7. Bug log the auto-target of pets, ice isn't an 'object'.
2a. Holds are a problem for you because of 7.
3. Never had a problem myself. Not once.
4. Bug log it.
5. Splitters or AFKers need to be penalised, put a countdown in the locker room or slap 'em with negative Acclaim, or something. Just get those useless lumps out of my matches.
6. OK
7. This is the main deal. Matches are entirely unbalanced due to real level variations. Consequently if you're a PvPer you get more or less compelled to PvE on those evil levels - and I don't like being compelled, thanks.

[Archived Post]

maps can get some tuning but are rather fine compared to other issues.
ice is fine, minimines, taser arrow and shotgun spam are not. TP is game braking because its a must for any player not to at least hinder your team.
playing at any level is absolutly fun and ofc there should be difference between lvl 20 and lvl 11 char, people should be rewarded for leveling.
Autofollow should NEVER be allowed in a game with PvP, i actually would welcome ability to turn off autofacing.
it trivilise PvP too much.
Other stuff you bring is obvious and relevant, hope devs will take notes.

[Archived Post]

Ice is fine.

It is an effect, do you get clinging flames resist? No. Oh how about negative Ions? Sorry. You don't get KB resist from force blast either. They are all working as intended.

To resist slow you get Con and block. If you aren't dying they ignore you.

Do not use CoH references past i12. In i13 they removed mez protection altogether, which was a terrible idea. If we wanted to make dps we would roll dps, let a CCer do its job.

OMG thank you for saying this. COH WAS ok before i13 now some predetermined factors take over that remove all danger from pvp'ing. It's horrible. Even TP doesn't bother me nearly as much as being in COH when everyone is gimped and their players behave in weird PVP ways that no one understands. Holds don't hold, damage doesn't do damage, heals don't heal past the first two shots. It's literally PVP for the Fisher Price crowd. The more I play PVP the more sense it makes. Locking down TP'ers isn't even that hard anymore.

[Archived Post]

TP is game braking because its a must for any player not to at least hinder your team.


This is incorrect, I did 5 or 6 matches before tier 2 stopped popping and I went anywhere from 9 to 13 kills with 0 deaths each match, using fly. :)

Ice form as a passive as well.

[Archived Post]

meh i play pvp all the time at 11-15 and 21-25.

it's fine. I don't even have a uber pvp build.

[Archived Post]

one thing I have noticed as a melee character, is that often times I just have to run around looking for someone getting beat on and held. I have holds of my own but because of a low ego I guess they just dont work that well. Any idiot with teleport can run away from any melee character without a strong hold. I would rather not be a cookie cutter ranged CC class if I don't have to, but as things are now, where is there a place for pure melee specs?

[Archived Post]

1) Map is not good
--Cage makes Sigils/Circles somewhat ridiculous. Add even 10 feet to the cage and maybe we can get the casters away from their circles
--Only one map! Seriously?
--Ceiling means you cannot pan up and out with the camera. There are many times when you cannot see above your character if you aren't a flyer. You can't make a ceiling field/zone, without actually making a ceiling?

2) Ice needs to be toned down.
--Slow effects do not grant a slow resist. WTF? Even knockback gives knockback resist.
--Also, what stat do I raise to resist slow?
--If you think ice is "working as intended", that's fine, but ice ends up filling my entire screen. Why does this matter? My auto-target STILL TARGETS ICE, even though I have it selected to "Never Auto-Target Objects."
This is because "never auto-target objects" is a lie. At least the "never" part is. It considers icicles to be "specific important objects" and so I can never target the enemies, just the stupid ice.
ICICLES ARE NOT "IMPORTANT!" Actual pets I could understand (although I still disagree, why kill the pets when killing the master kills all the pets?)

2a) Ice issues aside, it's possible to spend 33% of the match Held. I think CoH dropped PvP most CC powers by 75% or so, and gave damage boosts as compensation.

3) There are far too many places to get stuck.
--The silly crates and barrels lining the walls are created with little 1 foot nooks and crannies surrounding/between them. This simply creates hundreds of areas to get stuck on the map. I guess I could bind a key to /stuck. That's really lame.
--The poles that run along the chainlink fence create little pixelated areas where you can get stuck. Anyone knocked back into the wall can potentially stick there like velcro.

4) There are times when I cannot move into 1st person view. This only happens in the arena.
--I don't prefer 1st person, but sometimes there's a brief need. [Arbitrary ceilings plus flying characters would be one.] I have had times where closing up (zooming the mouse wheel, even on accident) fills the screen with my characters head. Even in "wide open" spaces where I know I'm not stuck.

5) Joining and Quitting (and AFK) need work.
--It's so easy to get hosed by "teammates" who quit or do nothing during the game. Even 5-on-4 is generally impossible. I've had games where for the first minute I'm the only one on my team inside. That would be fine if I got like 25x the rewards. It would still be impossible, but whatever. There needs to be some kind of compensator for unequal teams, including people AFK in the spawn room.

6) HERO Games noob mission
--I think the HERO Games mission rewards you for simply joining a game. As soon as you're in, you can quit. People do.
--Presumably the idea behind the Hero Games grinder quest is to force people to experience PvP and hope that they like it. Which means that: A) If they can simply quit, they aren't experiencing it. B) By quitting, they potentially ruin it for people who are trying it out for the first time.
--It would make more sense to set it to 2 or 3 wins. A) Winning is more fun. B) Requiring a win requires you to try to get better, and helps you feel good about your build.
--Hero mission goes from a good idea from levels 6-10 to a terrible idea at level 11. This is because PVP is terrible at level 11. [See next topic]

7) PvP is just stupid from levels 11-15+, 21-25+, 31-35+
--What happens is, you get boosted to 20, 30, 40...but you don't get better Charactersistcs to go along with it. The worst level to be is anything ending in a 1.
--PvP is completely nonsensical and not fun at all at these threshold levels.
--Simply check your Characteristic-tied powers before you go in, and after you go in. They all drop. Same goes for stuff like crit chance and crit damage.
--PvP needs to be set at FIVE level intervals, not 10. I assume the arena works without regard to shard. There should always be enough people, particularly with the notification system..if there's not, you'll be notified. If PvP sucks so badly that it can only support enough interest for 4 arenas (40, 30, 20, 10) then PvP needs work. Work on it.
--You could even have it [I]reverse-sidekick you, that way you can have level 20 be levels 17-22 (with levels 21 and 22 reverse sidekicking).
--Another option, albeit not a good one, is to pair teams by ACTUAL level...before boosting them to the threshold level ending in 0. At least this way both teams will have equally gimped characters.

There is no way that a boosted 11 is on par with a real 20 based on any mathematical criteria whatsoever. You would need a MAJOR boost to make an 11th level character the equivalent of a 20th level character:
--Missing power (14), power (17), power (20)
--Missing talent (12), talent (15), talent (18)
--Missing power advantage (16), advantage (19)
--Missing Characteristic Focus (13) !!!
--Missing better equipment, power replacers, consumables, etc

[Same goes for 30 and 40, particularly given that at 21 you can start crafting custom equipment, so a few levels of better equipment can be a huge difference.]

[8] I would have added something about PvP money being worthless, but obviously somebody figured that out.
Also, do we all have to be luchadors? I know luchadors are currently a little bit kitschy, but that won't last.

Play more, get experiance. 99.9% of the complaints you have there are pvp solutions.

Penalties for slackers needs to be implamented.

Thats it thats all i agree with.

The camera view...Dude im sitting here right now and i cant see the cieling...fix for me plz,

Getting stuck? Uh press wasd for that.

PvP brakets are always in 10.
The damage is increased if you enter at say 11 in 11-20Bracket but you have less powers compared to the guy lvl 20 so of course your getting owned. Obvious.

Not going to read all of it. Like i siad play more.

[Archived Post]

I'll continue to suggest that they add maps as you level to a random kind of rotation instead of removing them.

[Archived Post]

My only complaint is the ceiling above the cage. The way the camera works its so easy to get stuck and not be able to see what youre doing. Just make the ceiling a bit higher.

[Archived Post]

The victories should give more xp and acclaim . Actually at 30 - 40 Apocalypse people in the loosing team are earning more than the victorious team if they are camping near the leaders during two hours .


The timer should be reduced also .

[Archived Post]

Let me add that today I tried to PvP at level 12. It bumps me to 20, so obviously I'm 8 levels worse than everybody else, as stated earlier.
On top of that, every single person I am fighting has two superstats, while I only have 1. At a bare minimum, their damage bonuses are 2x mine, and that's assuming that their SS don't help them in other ways.

Incidentally, my team lost 0-15 in the UTC/Arena.

[Archived Post]

Let me add that today I tried to PvP at level 12. It bumps me to 20, so obviously I'm 8 levels worse than everybody else, as stated earlier.
On top of that, every single person I am fighting has two superstats, while I only have 1. At a bare minimum, their damage bonuses are 2x mine, and that's assuming that their SS don't help them in other ways.

Incidentally, my team lost 0-15 in the UTC/Arena.

You could've gotten to atleast 17 considering that's a days work :-/

[Archived Post]

So far have been enjoying the Hero games. Like the fact you can just queue up and jump in, and when its done be sent back.

Works really well for me as a casual gamer. I can get an instant pvp fix! :D

[Archived Post]

the second superstat is only level 13. it's not hard to get to. yes, you will be at a disadvantage without it.

[Archived Post]

OMG thank you for saying this. COH WAS ok before i13 now some predetermined factors take over that remove all danger from pvp'ing. It's horrible. Even TP doesn't bother me nearly as much as being in COH when everyone is gimped and their players behave in weird PVP ways that no one understands. Holds don't hold, damage doesn't do damage, heals don't heal past the first two shots. It's literally PVP for the Fisher Price crowd. The more I play PVP the more sense it makes. Locking down TP'ers isn't even that hard anymore.

Thank you for saying that. There is intelligent life out there after all!!!!! It does seem like basically all the rants about holds and TP would push the game more towards the fisher price-esqe PvP game- where Holds = Damage, Damage = Damage, no one can move at any speed what so ever, and potentially everything did the exact same damage with the exact same effects.
Not saying there doesn't need to be some balancing- but really don't want to see this game turn into the equivalent of Rock 'em Sock 'em robot's for PvP.

[Archived Post]

Blah Blah and stuff.


I totally agree with you on 99% of the improvements that you see needing fixing.

The "Hero Games" system, is basically the system used in Warhammer, an their "scenarios" also has issues with people leaveing, people joining too late etc etc.

One thing they implemented was if you left, you could gain pvp points in any way for 5 minutes after leaveing the match. Kinda lame, but it helped a little. But considering that this game doesnt have a pvp lvling system, im not really sure how they could fix it other than makeing people stay and fight, but that would also have its downsides as well.

Seeing as i have to spec into CON to lower slow and holds is somewhat ********.

There needs to be an immuntiy on the archers hold. I can be spammed with it, and it cant be blocked. Seeing as anyone can spec into it, and melee as well, i get the thought of it being more lame.

Never have i seen a game that has pvp (aside from WoW, which i have never played), that implemented a stat as a decideing factor in the duration of slow and hold abilities. It should be an X amount of time. If i want to be pure dps, and not spec into CON, ill get held for 10 seconds. But if i spec into CON, i suddently lose dps, and become a much less threatening target, that cant kill anything...... Not to mention the fact that burst dps wins, consdiering that anyone can spec into regen (and 90% of the players do), if i cant out dmg the regen, or before someone teleports, im worhtless. wtf....

Guess ill spec into hat ranged stun....

[Archived Post]

They need to open up the maps from the lower tiers, for the higher level players.

That is to say, UTC Cage match, Tech Arena(or whatever its called) should be available to EVERYONE that's already gone though those tiers.

So if I'm lvl 35, I can que for UTC Cage Match, and so can everyone else in Tier 4. So everyone in that Cage match would be lvls 31-40.


Tier 4 PVP is going to get old really quick, if there are only 2 scenerios available.


Another thing that I hope is coming, is an OUTDOOR PVP zone. With PVP missions, PVE missions, PVP Events, ect.. similar to the different outdoor PVP zones in COV/COH.

[Archived Post]

Another thing that I hope is coming, is an OUTDOOR PVP zone. With PVP missions, PVE missions, PVP Events, ect.. similar to the different outdoor PVP zones in COV/COH.

WAR did this, and i hope i never see it again.

[Archived Post]

WAR did this, and i hope i never see it again.

RVR Lakes in WAR and PVP zones in COV/COH are two totally different things.


PVP zones in COV/COH are more like an ongoing scenerio, where you can have 20 to 30 players on each side battling it out, OUTDOORS in a large zone. No renown ranks, renown gear, ect.

I do like the concept of world RVR in WAR, you have reasons to PVP, zones you control and fight over, with risk and a rewards system. Most MMOs just "turn on" pvp mode outdoors and say "there ya go, world PVP". Age of Conan comes to mind....

[Archived Post]

RVR Lakes in WAR and PVP zones in COV/COH are two totally different things.


PVP zones in COV/COH are more like an ongoing scenerio, where you can have 20 to 30 players on each side battling it out, OUTDOORS in a large zone. No renown ranks, renown gear, ect.

I do like the concept of world RVR in WAR, you have reasons to PVP, zones you control and fight over, with risk and a rewards system. Most MMOs just "turn on" pvp mode outdoors and say "there ya go, world PVP". Age of Conan comes to mind....

30 people still qualifies as somewhat of a zerg.

Ad if you played WAR, thats all endgame really was, at least ORvR-wise.

Scenarios were the only reason i kept playing that game as long as i did. There was an equal amount of players on each side, and had a real objective.

The Orvr mechanic in WAR is what made the game fail. Yeah control of different zones might sound like fun, (even tho it was for a while), it got reptitive, and just plain bland.

Also, with CO at its current state, pvp-wise, i wouldnt have a real reason to go out and fight OUTDOORS, when i can get the same experience (if not better), in a heros game.

With travel powers being the way they are, outdoor pvp would be a headache, and i dont think i need explain that.

[Archived Post]

With travel powers being the way they are, outdoor pvp would be a headache, and i dont think i need explain that.

What's wrong with travel powers other then TP?

[Archived Post]

With travel powers being the way they are, outdoor pvp would be a headache, and i dont think i need explain that.

I think you do need to explain, actually :p

Yes, flight can hang up high, but that also means HUGE fall damage when someone shuts off their travel power.

[Archived Post]

TP is game braking because its a must for any player not to at least hinder your team.

Nonsense. TP works prefectly well and isn't OP'd like a lot of people say. You get a timer after an attack that can go up to 10 seconds without TP, you can get hit by travel cancelling attacks, and some really powerful holds can keep you down long enough to get rightfully owned. I regularly get my ass handed to me by people who instead of whining, found ways to kill TPers. And I kill other TPers myself. Now to say that it's the most effective travel power in PVP, yeah, I'd agree. As well as tunnelling, to be honest. Beyond the point of breaking holds with it or whatever, if you really put your mind to it, you can use TP for hit and run tactics, to hunt down those running away to heal, or simply take the benefit of surprise... But if people using teleport in PVP are impossible to kill for you, you're doing something wrong.

[Archived Post]

Nonsense. TP works prefectly well and isn't OP'd like a lot of people say. You get a timer after an attack that can go up to 10 seconds without TP, you can get hit by travel cancelling attacks, and some really powerful holds can keep you down long enough to get rightfully owned. I regularly get my ass handed to me by people who instead of whining, found ways to kill TPers. And I kill other TPers myself. Now to say that it's the most effective travel power in PVP, yeah, I'd agree. As well as tunnelling, to be honest. Beyond the point of breaking holds with it or whatever, if you really put your mind to it, you can use TP for hit and run tactics, to hunt down those running away to heal, or simply take the benefit of surprise... But if people using teleport in PVP are impossible to kill for you, you're doing something wrong.

If your use of teleport isnt OP, then you arent using it to its full potential.