PvP itemization, problem and the solution.

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Ok it's time I chimed in here. I play MMO's for one reason and one reason alone. Player vs player. I spelled it out because if you rarely participate in PvP, you really shouldn't be throwing around personal opinions about itemization.

Now, I bought this game BECAUSE it boasted an "arena like" PvP system, similar to that of WoW. This caught my interest very quickly. After logging in and experiencing it for myself I'm happy to say... It's not bad :eek:

However, what I can't understand for the life of me is this PvP reward system. First off, why does my lvl 12 quest item rival that of the lvl 40 PvP items that cost 425,000 acclaim? This is quite simply broken, unless the stats are displaying incorrectly which crossed my mind. Second, why is the gear saturated with weird and unnecessary stats. Presence lowers my threat generation, yet it's all over the PvP gear. Granted it raises the effectiveness of my healing abilities which increases survivability, but shouldn't that be my choice and not a requirement?

Cryptic I'm happy with what you've done so far, but this PvP reward system needs to be updated with different/better items.

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The carebears that troll this forum are going to tell you to stfu, because this is a PVE game and PVP is the devil, and the current PVP items are both properly priced, and more than powerful enough. They'll also probably throw in "Please don't nerf PVE because of PVP!"

This game, honestly, has the worst community I think I've seen for an MMO.


***edit***

I agree with you, the PVP items are trash, and overpriced trash to boot.

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The carebears that troll this forum are going to tell you to stfu, because this is a PVE game and PVP is the devil, and the current PVP items are both properly priced, and more than powerful enough. They'll also probably throw in "Please don't nerf PVE because of PVP!"

This game, honestly, has the worst community I think I've seen for an MMO.

Ooh, me me! PvP rewards should frankly be costume pieces with no stats at all, just for the unlocks.

And yeah, this isn't a community that's friendly to PvP'ers at all. Can you blame them? I'd link some of the worst examples of why we don't want a community with those type of people, but I'll make it simple for you. Type 'Warhammer Online' in google, and go to the forums. Any part of the forums, doesn't matter. THAT is the 'PvP community'. I do not want them within lightyears of CO, they're a bloody plague.

That said, I personally do pvp all the time, and encourage everyone else to have fun with it. But I don't think pvp is a big deal at all, and honestly I'd rather see it removed from the game entirely before it was even made a concern.

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Items that are more than fluff have turned a lot of PvP games into gear grinds and invisible walls to new players. I could see why they chose to make these cosmetic. Then again I was a gladiator for 5 seasons in wow so I'm not exactly a proponent of the system.

I think what they're doing here is they're making it so if you have the level 40 pvp costume unlocks people know you might be some sort of badass. But beyond having the look you won't win because you outgear anybody to death.


Acutally equipping the items will be crippling yourself yes. :)

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Items that are more than fluff have turned a lot of PvP games into gear grinds and invisible walls to new players. I could see why they chose to make these cosmetic. Then again I was a gladiator for 5 seasons in wow so I'm not exactly a proponent of the system.

I think what they're doing here is they're making it so if you have the level 40 pvp costume unlocks people know you might be some sort of badass. But beyond having the look you won't win because you outgear anybody to death.


Acutally equipping the items will be crippling yourself yes. :)

BINGO. Someone gets it. The items are to go 'HA LOOK AT ME', but not to actually let you have an advantage. And really, why in the world would you want it any other way? That said, I would REALLY love it if those rewards were something asides from bloody wrestling outfits.

Perhaps modified versions of regular costume pieces? Dragon wings with spiky edges? Glowy armor? I dunno, I love unlocking stuff but I'm never going to actually put on a silly luchador outfit, gawd.

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The PVP items should at least be competitive with contemporary PVE items... you can't even use them for crafting, which sucks. And the PVP items do not cover the full range of statistics, which sucks even more.

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BINGO. Someone gets it. The items are to go 'HA LOOK AT ME', but not to actually let you have an advantage. And really, why in the world would you want it any other way? That said, I would REALLY love it if those rewards were something asides from bloody wrestling outfits.

Perhaps modified versions of regular costume pieces? Dragon wings with spiky edges? Glowy armor? I dunno, I love unlocking stuff but I'm never going to actually put on a silly luchador outfit, gawd.

Do you know if they're account unlocks? Because I'd have to make a guy who has an appropriate mexican wrestler name to ever want to use these things. They look dumb on other heros.

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I believe at one point they said that the very end-game items would be accessible, in various forms, through different methods.

Nemesis Tokens. PvP rewards. UNITY rewards. So forth.

Some of the consumables that are offered are at least usable, even if the pvp reward gear isn't what you'd use. Then again, with the variable and custom craft system the large majority of people will have pretty much the stats they want to have regardless.


Gear that gives costume unlocks only would be fine with me as well. I mean let's face it, in the end it's all about bragging rights anyways isn't it? :D

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Do you know if they're account unlocks? Because I'd have to make a guy who has an appropriate mexican wrestler name to ever want to use these things. They look dumb on other heros.
The Stellar luchador gear looks great on one of my female heroes, and the Magnificent Cape is excellent on my magey dude

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BINGO. Someone gets it.


Yes, and vapid carebears like you think that the only grinds in MMOs should be dungeon treadmills, and that PVPers should be forced to PVE, but that PVEers should never be encouraged to PVP.

Let me ask you an honest question - are you also a fox-news conservative? Because you're about as rational and unbiased as one.

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honestly, I'm looking elsewhere for a PvP MMO game that has fast pace action like this.


Cryptic does not seem interested in making a good PvP game.

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There is a bug lurking around that can cause items in stores to display their stats incorrectly--it's using your current level rather than the item's level. AFAIK this is fixed and should go live in the next patch or two.

In general, the PvP items are fairly pricey, but they're a grade better than a typical mission reward for their level.

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There is a bug lurking around that can cause items in stores to display their stats incorrectly--it's using your current level rather than the item's level. AFAIK this is fixed and should go live in the next patch or two.

In general, the PvP items are fairly pricey, but they're a grade better than a typical mission reward for their level.

I'm level 40, and looking at them on the vendor they look like useless trash. So I think its more than just an appearance bug, unless its using my level from when I first looked at them in my teens...

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Type 'Warhammer Online' in google, and go to the forums. Any part of the forums, doesn't matter. THAT is the 'PvP community'. I do not want them within lightyears of CO, they're a bloody plague.


Thankfully you do not represent the CO community, because intelligent people usually don't respond well to ridiculous generalizations.

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Items that are more than fluff have turned a lot of PvP games into gear grinds

PvE is and will always be a "grind". All we are accomplishing by neglecting the stats on PvP items is substituting one grind for another. I'm sorry, but as a current subscriber to Champions Online, I refuse to "grind" in PvE in order to participate in PvP. It makes absolutely zero sense what so ever.

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There is a bug lurking around that can cause items in stores to display their stats incorrectly--it's using your current level rather than the item's level. AFAIK this is fixed and should go live in the next patch or two.

In general, the PvP items are fairly pricey, but they're a grade better than a typical mission reward for their level.

This is very helpful and explains a lot, thank you.

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I'm level 40, and looking at them on the vendor they look like useless trash. So I think its more than just an appearance bug, unless its using my level from when I first looked at them in my teens...

Could be that they're using a default level of 1, instead. I'll double-check the stats just to be sure next time I have a chance.

Needless to say, if level 40 endgame upgrades look like they have trash stats, it's a bug to be fixed. Use the in-game bug reporting tool!

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Ooh, me me! PvP rewards should frankly be costume pieces with no stats at all, just for the unlocks.

And yeah, this isn't a community that's friendly to PvP'ers at all. Can you blame them? I'd link some of the worst examples of why we don't want a community with those type of people, but I'll make it simple for you. Type 'Warhammer Online' in google, and go to the forums. Any part of the forums, doesn't matter. THAT is the 'PvP community'. I do not want them within lightyears of CO, they're a bloody plague.

That said, I personally do pvp all the time, and encourage everyone else to have fun with it. But I don't think pvp is a big deal at all, and honestly I'd rather see it removed from the game entirely before it was even made a concern.


Yopu dont know what you're talking bout. PvPers are going to get beatdown and destroyed by HEROES wearing UNITY items. This is not fair that someone can farm PVE and come into PVP arenas with aweesome epics and destroy us.



Cryptic has 2 choices:
1) Disable UNITY and all high level farming gear earned from the end game content
2) Make PVP equipment competitive

On the back of my box it doesnt say this is a PVE only game so stop trolling pvp boards please.

You lucky this forum has no ignore feature. Threads like this you can tell the pvp'ers from the pve'ers. No full blooded pvper is excited at prospect of getting destroyed by some raider that took the time to farm uNITY everyday

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Could be that they're using a default level of 1, instead. I'll double-check the stats just to be sure next time I have a chance.

Needless to say, if level 40 endgame upgrades look like they have trash stats, it's a bug to be fixed. Use the in-game bug reporting tool!

It's not level 1, but I question if its level 40 blue or not....

11 str
5 dex
1 rec
5.2 physica and energy defense


I have a level 40 green that's 14 end and 5.2 defense.

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honestly, I'm looking elsewhere for a PvP MMO game that has fast pace action like this.


Cryptic does not seem interested in making a good PvP game.

Hmm, guess I better maintain my EVE online account. You would think put more effort into this. I really wont have time to play 2 MMOs

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There is a bug lurking around that can cause items in stores to display their stats incorrectly--it's using your current level rather than the item's level. AFAIK this is fixed and should go live in the next patch or two.

In general, the PvP items are fairly pricey, but they're a grade better than a typical mission reward for their level.

I read this post before I posted but now its really sinking in. I will wait and see I guess thanks. Just keep in mind a lot of us would rather pvp then farm UNITY so hopefully the items are competitive. Just dont assume the pve'ers will just stay in PVE. They will for sure pvp as well so we will need decent equipment otherwise pvp will be ruined at endgame.

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It's not level 1, but I question if its level 40 blue or not....

11 str
5 dex
1 rec
5.2 physica and energy defense


I have a level 40 green that's 14 end and 5.2 defense.

That is a pretty normal secondary stat layout.
You say you got a lvl 40 that 14 end.

Wel this is a total of 17 points in stats. Which is pretty much correct. You get a bit more for the fact they spread out. Possibly it needs 1 point more in dex and rec. But dont think it needs much beyond that. Almost all the PvE secondaries look like that

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While I don't think the PvP items should get into the quality of say a game like WoW's, it would be nice if the few hundred acclaim items were at least upgrades from quest rewards and trash drops. Right now they are very depressing.

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PvEers just need someone to blame when we actually find something that's broken because we tear the system apart looking for weaknesses that don't matter when fighting a computer controlled enemy with no mind.

PvP rewards always have been a little weird when drops are usually much better. I really think most of them were intended to unlock the costume pieces and not give uberstats...s'ok by me as long as we keep getting new costume pieces like the UTC belts...they nice.

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for love of god dont make pvp gearfest like wow, rather give variety HOW to slot it instead of some uber purple epeixxx bs where gear wins instead of skill.

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for love of god dont make pvp gearfest like wow, rather give variety HOW to slot it instead of some uber purple epeixxx bs where gear wins instead of skill.

Exactly this.

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for love of god dont make pvp gearfest like wow, rather give variety HOW to slot it instead of some uber purple epeixxx bs where gear wins instead of skill.

PvP in MMO's is very difficult to implement without being a "gearfest". I've accepted this and learned to live with it. However, I'm all for stripping gear based stats completely as soon as you enter a PvP arena. All gear will give zero benefit in PvP and this will create a more level playing field. Everybody will essentially be naked (with their costume still on of course). Then the PvP rewards can simply be costume unlocks.

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for love of god dont make pvp gearfest like wow, rather give variety HOW to slot it instead of some uber purple epeixxx bs where gear wins instead of skill.

Well you see the problem is this game has a significant pve component to it and the only way pve makes sense in games like this is if they keep a carrot out on the stick for the pve crowd to chase.
That "little extra" in the gear. Every new encounter needs to have a better carrot than the previous, just like gear from level 1 is not as good as gear from level 10... otherwise why would you care if you had new gear?

The pve really doesn't interest me that much (although I may participate from time to time), but I don't want to be "behind" the gear curve just because I would rather spend my time in pvp than I would chasing drops off of mobs. Pvers usually run the same instance over and over trying to get their gear, in comparison its no different than running the same pvp instance over and over trying to get your gear.

as the pve gear increases in strength the pvp gear needs to stay up with it otherwise instead of grinding for gear in pvp you will be grinding in pve... and if you prefer that, fine, but I generally would rather kill players than mobs. Call me old fashioned, but when I log into the internet to play a game its to play against other players. I prefer to leave most of the AI killing to single player games.
but, again, thats just my preference. Im not trying to impose it on anyone, I would just like the game to present the option to me so that I don't have to play it a way that would be less entertaining to me just to keep up with the players that are playing the game they want to play it.

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The stat gains from being uber-geared just arn't significant enough to tilt the game balance by a huge amount.