Range shouldn't matter with height.

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Playing a few games of B.A.S.H today, I noticed that people with flight can just easily fly very high in the air and come down, attack, fly right back up without me being able to attack. I use acrobatics. I am not saying flight is OP in anyway I just find it a little unfair that I can't easily attack them.

Now I could just climb ontop of a building like I guarantee most of you will suggest. Which is a pretty good idea except: A) Being acrobatics I can't jump to high so it takes me longer than most other TP's to get on the roof. and B) Once they see me on the roof/climbing to get to the roof, people with flight simply just go higher/farther away and repeat the same process.

There should be a way to counter this. If I am on the ground and someone is high in the air I should be able to shoot them still. However....

This is a tricky issue, this will nerf flight powers by a lot which is why I can't really come up with a fool-proof idea to counter it.

You could always make the height of the arena smaller, but I'd rather not get into that because that limits a bunch of other powers too like super jump,rocket boots etc. Besides getting stopped by an invisible force field is kind of odd in an outside area.

So I figured I would bring this to the forums in hopes that people actually help find a resolve to this. What should be done to make it a little bit more balanced?

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Take a power to knock off Travel Powers

Take ranged attacks

Hold the target

Need I keep going?

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Train an ability that removes flghtform, such as Thunderbolt Lunge. Problem solved.

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Without a way to quickly heal up, thunderbolt lunge on a target high up would be a bad idea.

Hurl, the archery one (if it works) or conflagration would be the best choices in that case. (the archery one has a range of 100 ft if I remember correctly)

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Throwing something at them before they get out of range works too.

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Take a power to knock off Travel Powers

Take ranged attacks

Hold the target

Need I keep going?


I think you completely missed the point of this thread. I CANT use any power against them because they are out of range. I am a ranged player, I use force. I can't use a hold because like I said, they are out of range.

Also, before I get X amount of replies saying "take this power from this powerset" I shouldn't have to. I am force, I like being pure force, and perhaps when I run out of powers to buy for force I will get thunderbolt lunge,etc.

I know the PvP system in this game, at least right now, people think you need to take certain powers from certain sets but I personally dont care for that.

I do fine using just force, and I would do fine against people with flight. My problem is, I can't reach them... with RANGED attacks.


Also people are already high in the air before I even get a chance to stop them.

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there's no real good way to do it...even if you knock them down they'll be back out of range in 3 seconds, so you get what, 1 or 2 attacks in? wont really kill anything

unfortunately the way the game is right now, or at least the way the maps are, is to be not gimped you need teleport + flight

acrobatics and stuff....pve only

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Also, before I get X amount of replies saying "take this power from this powerset" I shouldn't have to.



I think I see the problem here...

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there's no real good way to do it...even if you knock them down they'll be back out of range in 3 seconds, so you get what, 1 or 2 attacks in? wont really kill anything

unfortunately the way the game is right now, or at least the way the maps are, is to be not gimped you need teleport + flight

acrobatics and stuff....pve only

This will change though in a matter of patches... Its not like I dont win in PvP. I do, I can kill everyone on ground level fine. I do knock people out of the air when they aren't ridiculously high.

Its just when they ARE ridiculously high they litteraly move down for 2 seconds. attack. hold space for a second and I cant attack. If I do, since I am force I usually just knock them higher into the air.

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So what you're saying is there's a weakness in your build - being stuck on ground level as it were, and you refuse to take powers, throw objects, or do anything else that would counter their advantage... yet expect to be able to counter their advantage in some fashion?


Throwing stuff at them and using something like arrow storm (which does in fact work) becomes just a matter of timing.

Saying that you shouldn't have to take a power to counter an advantage someone else has is absurd. If you are an ice user facing someone who uses only ice form for the resist boost (not likely, but for example this is fine), then they're going to have an advantage... The only way to get around that advantage is by using skills other than ice based skills.

Height is an advantage. That doesn't mean you have to take a flying power, you just need to realize that you have a weakness and adjust accordingly. For the record, if you do knock someone that high out of the air, their advantage becomes a weakness as they take additional damage when they splat on the ground.

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If you can't hit them, they can't hit you. If they can hit you, you can hit them. Why can't you use your hold/stun/TP-remover when they're close to you?

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If you can't hit them, they can't hit you. If they can hit you, you can hit them. Why can't you use your hold/stun/TP-remover when they're close to you?

Because he wishes to stack tier 0 and tier 1 dps moves so he can WTFPWNT them... When he targets them he believes that all travel powers should be removed and they be perma held without him having to give up 1 slot of his WTFPWNT dps.

He also thinks that everyone on his team should be his pocket healers.

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Actually I think almost all of you have missed the point of the post. Rather than not even reading my post and just assuming this is me saying "nerf flight" which it actually isnt. I am just trying to find an equal ground from people who aren't airbourne.

If you can't hit them, they can't hit you. If they can hit you, you can hit them. Why can't you use your hold/stun/TP-remover when they're close to you?

This is partially true. I will try my best to hold/stun/tp-remove them whenever I can. Sometimes I am successful but not often. Once they see I am targeting them they just fly back up to the out of range point. I cant just watch them during an entire B.A.S.H match because I will get ***** by everyone else. So once I start focusing on killing other people they move down just a LITTLE and start dpsing me. Once they see I have them targetted they instantly fly back up before I can get off a power.

If I do remove their TP they simply just activate flight, hold block if I am damaging them and fly back up to position. Sure I can get some damage on them but not nearly enough to kill them or even get them to half health.


So what you're saying is there's a weakness in your build - being stuck on ground level as it were, and you refuse to take powers, throw objects, or do anything else that would counter their advantage... yet expect to be able to counter their advantage in some fashion?

No. Like I said previously 3 times I think now.... I would love to use powers/throw objects/etc on them... but they are already out of range...... this situation really isn't to hard to understand.


Can't wait to read 10 more posts that have nothing to do with what I am saying.

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Because he wishes to stack tier 0 and tier 1 dps moves so he can WTFPWNT them... When he targets them he believes that all travel powers should be removed and they be perma held without him having to give up 1 slot of his WTFPWNT dps.

He also thinks that everyone on his team should be his pocket healers.

I laughed.

You trolled pretty bad... He actually hasn't said anything to make him OP in pvp...


I have a few toons... 1 of them using superspeed. I understand where you are coming from with this. I personally agree, I just don't know how it can be done.

I've attacked flight characters from the start and use holds/TP removers on them and either kill them or get really close. When I get really close they usually get away and just regen all their HP without me being able to reach, its kind of unfair but nothing you can do about it.

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Can't wait to read 10 more posts that have nothing to do with what I am saying.


Actually, the responses have everything to do with what you have been saying. You have been given several answers that you apparently don't like, so you choose to ignore them.



I am just trying to find an equal ground from people who aren't airbourne.


There isn't an equal ground. That's your answer. Sorry you don't like it. As was mentioned, flight gives them an advantage over you because you don't have flight. That means you have two choices to counter their advantage:

1) Take flight and fight them in the air.

2) Take a power that brings them to the ground.

What do those two choices have in common? They require you to take a power you apparently don't have and don't want to take. If you choose not to take a power that counters their advantage, then they will ALWAYS have that advantage over you, but that's entirely on you. The power to take away their advantage is yours if you choose to use it.

Balance doesn't come from all powers being the same. It comes from having answers available to all problems, even if you don't necessarily like those answers.

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1) Take flight and fight them in the air.

2) Take a power that brings them to the ground.



Well at the moment I can't respec far enough to get flight. Maybe at 35.

And again, the issue I am having is not so much bringing them to the ground as it is just not even being able to use ANY power on them... They are out of range.. Which makes my point being there should be a way to get them into range. I cant use a hold/TP-remover if they are out of range... That is my whole problem. I 'KNOW' the only way to counter it right now is simply to take a power from another powerset like archery or something. I am fine with that, but I personally think this is something that shouldn't stay in the game. There should be a way to balance it. Which is why I made this post... to help get suggestions on ways to balance it... not posts just teaching me how to play.

If you don't don't think it should be balanced you simply either don't post or say you don't think it should be balanced. I for one think it should.

Also no, probably 4-5 posts have been related to what I have said.. The rest are just troll/flame.

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This just makes me want to make a character with flight and rush my way to sniper rifle.

120 ft range, gogogo.

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Well at the moment I can't respec far enough to get flight. Maybe at 35.

And again, the issue I am having is not so much bringing them to the ground as it is just not even being able to use ANY power on them... They are out of range.. Which makes my point being there should be a way to get them into range. I cant use a hold/TP-remover if they are out of range... That is my whole problem. I 'KNOW' the only way to counter it right now is simply to take a power from another powerset like archery or something. I am fine with that, but I personally think this is something that shouldn't stay in the game. There should be a way to balance it. Which is why I made this post... to help get suggestions on ways to balance it... not posts just teaching me how to play.

If you don't don't think it should be balanced you simply either don't post or say you don't think it should be balanced. I for one think it should.

Also no, probably 4-5 posts have been related to what I have said.. The rest are just troll/flame.

And that's his point. There is no way to 'balance' it. He's out of range. You can't balance that.

Listen to reason mate.

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If I do remove their TP they simply just activate flight, hold block if I am damaging them and fly back up to position. Sure I can get some damage on them but not nearly enough to kill them or even get them to half health.


First, they're knocked to the ground. There's a few second period where you can do some serious damage before they get back to their feet. Once they ARE on their feet, regular block counters apply. Up to and including Crippling Challenge which EVERY powerset has access to. And, if you do have TP cancelling abilities... Just use it again as soon as they start moving up. It's a long way to get out of range, plenty of time to bring them back down.



No. Like I said previously 3 times I think now.... I would love to use powers/throw objects/etc on them... but they are already out of range...... this situation really isn't to hard to understand.


Can't wait to read 10 more posts that have nothing to do with what I am saying.

Nice of you to partial quote me.


Throwing stuff at them and using something like arrow storm (which does in fact work) becomes just a matter of timing.


What that means is if you have two skills that have 100 ft range, and one person darts into range then darts out, you have the window of opportunity. You can hit them before they dart out of range once more, because you CAN STRIKE FIRST.

They need to get INTO range, activate their power, then run back OUT of range. The moment they're in range, why the hell aren't you throwing whatever you've picked up? Even a bench will work. If they're in range to hit you, they're in range to be hit.

If you can't time it, that's not the game's issue. As far as I am aware, the ONLY ability that has greater than 100 foot range is sniper rifle. It has 120, they wouldn't even need to move to get into range.


So before you say that my post had nothing to do with what you were complaining about, please make sure you read and understand my entire post.

Once again, you are knowingly giving yourself a disadvantage that you refuse to correct it in any manner.

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*knocks travel power off player*
*player activates flight again right after*

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Nice of you to partial quote me.

I partial quote to let you know which part of your post I am addressing.

What that means is if you have two skills that have 100 ft range, and one person darts into range then darts out, you have the window of opportunity. You can hit them before they dart out of range once more, because you CAN STRIKE FIRST.

They need to get INTO range, activate their power, then run back OUT of range. The moment they're in range, why the hell aren't you throwing whatever you've picked up? Even a bench will work. If they're in range to hit you, they're in range to be hit.

If you can't time it, that's not the game's issue. As far as I am aware, the ONLY ability that has greater than 100 foot range is sniper rifle. It has 120, they wouldn't even need to move to get into range.


So before you say that my post had nothing to do with what you were complaining about, please make sure you read and understand my entire post.


Basically if I am holding something I'll wait for the guy to move back into range, the only issue is that if it is a skilled player he can see me holding it and just waits, or attacks someone nearby that is currently in range of him than comes back to me later after I have thrown it or focused on a different target. If I don't throw it I usually just get ***** by everyone else in the fight.


Which is why I made this post... to help get suggestions on ways to balance it... not posts just teaching me how to play.

If there is NOT a way to balance it. Than that is fine, however since this has been happening alot lately I figured I should ask on the forums if you guys had any suggestions to make it a little more even.

For example, just add taller buildings.... Simple thing to do, doesn't effect anyone too harshly and if I need to chase someone flying too high I can spend the extra time to climb up a taller building.

I am NOT asking for huge power changes or anything similar to this, just some very simple basic additions to make it so it is possible to be in range at all times. Not that I am in range at all times.

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I partial quote to let you know which part of your post I am addressing.

Basically if I am holding something I'll wait for the guy to move back into range, the only issue is that if it is a skilled player he can see me holding it and just waits, or attacks someone nearby that is currently in range of him than comes back to me later after I have thrown it or focused on a different target. If I don't throw it I usually just get ***** by everyone else in the fight.



Now see, you're changing your story. Now what's happening is he's skilled enough to avoid you, when before he was just moving in and out and you couldn't touch him because he was moving in and out. There is a difference.

I'm still not really seeing an issue here though. Let's assume all you do is throw things. You pick it up, he moves on. You've just driven him off, leaving you free to do other things. He comes back five minutes later and hits you. Assuming you and he are not otherwise entangled, he'll still only manage the one hit before you pick something else up.

If he makes a mistake, he's dead because you throw it and do what I suggested earlier - rush in, deal damage, counter his block and re-disable his flight. If he doesn't, then he hangs back out of range again and the stalemate continues until one of you move on, likely him.

Worse comes to worse, choose something that you know you can instant pickup. Don't pick it up. Pick something else up and move next to the thing you can insta-pick. Wait. When it appears he's moving on, throw it. Wait a very, very brief period. He starts moving back, insta-pick the item up and throw at him.


Or just use something like the archery travel disable power, of which there's no indication until you pull out your bow. If it's just a tap, which is enough, then it's already too late.

It seems a lot simpler to me than having someone recode and reskin entire buildings just to compensate for a minor issue. Which, by the time you got to the top of it, the entire standoff would be moot anyways since he'd just move on.

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I haven't read page 2 but you want to stick to force and have people going up down.
I know Force has a travel remover with its hold and I also know you dont have to hold it all the way to get the travel remove effect (unless they changed it recently) so all you have to do it tap it on them and sure you don't hold them but they are grounded now.