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View Full Version : 5 men instances, destroyer factory, Teleios tower almost unplayable now.


Archived Post
09-03-2009, 12:43 AM
Yesterday i tried destroyer factory and teleios tower...

So here we go 5 members required fine, wheres the LFG tool ? ah well seems theres none , only things to do is to shout in zone channe and try all the diffeent instances l in hope someone who need it might see it int he small window. Luckily the game is new so theres still a lot of people, it dont take too much time finding people by switching instances, but i foresee problems with that a few month later.
Now we get in, better not to storm in like superheroes, hell no, specially after the patch, defenses have been nerfed to oblivion.

Basically that type of instance require a tank, an healer, some crowd control and some dps, like traditionnal mmorpgs.
Problem is no one in this game build chracters around those templates, they made characters for...*gasp* fun.. so not optimized at all.Even if you wanted to do you coudlnt make a tank type character your survivability is a too low and face it melee is a joke in this game in pvp and pve.

The content and level design was very well done, but it was deaths after deaths and wipes after wipes, two goups of mobs and you are dead.As i said it could be done easily with the traditionnal mmorpg group approach but people arent obviously here for that and take it as an hack and slash with fast action , i was franlky not in mood to lecture anyone on how they "have" to play.

Now to the bugs some quest was impossible to finish, with the nerfs its impossible to keep foxbat alive, it died in like one min, we dont have a dedicated healer and even with such i am not sure we could do seeing how weak healing powers are.
Worse, the destroid event bugged and megadestroid was not getting up, so everyone petition, off course i knew already no GM would come, theres probably 1 for 10k players, and even if by miracle he come he would say nothing can be done.
so we had to restart the isntance from start after 30 min wait for it to reset.

Now teileios tower.. same problems wipes after aggroing a little too much, and some absurd encounters, for example you have to stwich off 4 lobes in rooms that spawn additionnals monsters, prboably easy pre nerf patch, but now a chore, deaths after deaths, add graphics bug etc...

The final encounter? better not be melee again, you are completely shredded by those red energy bolts.Once the brain use its charge power it instant death , you block , you loose 3/4 of health! Theres also mobs spawning even if you destroyed the 4 central devices.
Death penalty is nothing, so you just rush in after death , lke lemmings again and again.. ah yes the game is more challengingit requires skill now. Challenging ?? tedious yes. Could have been much more fun to revert to our powers before patch, and triple the numbers of henchmen instead in such missions.

Archived Post
09-03-2009, 01:31 AM
Instead of complaining you need to learn about the game. You didn't know that there is an LFG tool ? Clearly you need to get better at the game before complaining that it is too hard.

Archived Post
09-03-2009, 01:38 AM
Instead of complaining you need to learn about the game. You didn't know that there is an LFG tool ? Clearly you need to get better at the game before complaining that it is too hard.

I'm glad your first hand instight into Lairs and your direct engagement of the posters IMPORTANT points clearly furthers the discussion of those interrested in this topic.

Hint: l2play is never a good reply

Archived Post
09-03-2009, 01:43 AM
Instead of complaining you need to learn about the game. You didn't know that there is an LFG tool ? Clearly you need to get better at the game before complaining that it is too hard.

wheres the manual as well ? i wasnt the only one not knowing of the tool in the group no on knew about it.You absolutely add nothing constructive you dont even give me the location . If i need to be better at game probably , but then most people do .
You did those instances easy without troubles, with what builds then ?

Archived Post
09-03-2009, 01:45 AM
How about "my main is specced as a tank and my survivability is not too low for a 5-man instance."

Does that qualify as a good reply?

Archived Post
09-03-2009, 01:47 AM
No, detail me more the build, the one guy doing it wasnt holding long enough .I am ranged spec and was tanking as "good".

Archived Post
09-03-2009, 01:49 AM
How about "my main is specced as a tank and my survivability is not too low for a 5-man instance."

Does that qualify as a good reply?

Yup, if you have actual 5 man experience, please relate it. Did you use 1 healer, 2? What Lair did you do? Did you guys wipe often or have much more success then the OP?

I have a tank Spec'ed Might/Invulnerability character (adds in Defiance with Defensive Combo Advantage), but I don't feel very tanky after the patch anymore, so I'd be interrested to hear other peoples experiences in actualy 5 man content (he's just lvl 21 so far so I have none myself).

Archived Post
09-03-2009, 01:53 AM
Build is Might/TK with Regen and TK Shield block power. But that hardly matters. The content in CO, as it stands, is substantially easier than equivalent level content in CoX at the moment.

Level 25, ran Destroyer's factory tonight with one support/healer and three DPS hybrid types. Required some pulling / aggro management, but nothing I found a real challenge. I don't remember how many deaths, but it didn't seem like many.

Archived Post
09-03-2009, 01:56 AM
Build is Might/TK with Regen and TK Shield block power. But that hardly matters. The content in CO, as it stands, is substantially easier than equivalent level content in CoX at the moment.

Depends on what you play. If you play a Blaster solo, CoX is tons more difficult. If you play a Mastermind on the other hand, it's tons easier...

Archived Post
09-03-2009, 01:57 AM
ok thats good to know some might tk can do it , and did you get a dedicated healer all the time? this make my point its looks like traditionnal mmorpg now.
we just overcharged our drones when someone was aggroed by megadestroid it was working, but most of the time for other encounters it wasnt working, drones pathing is terrible and they prefer to heal ach other than players.

Archived Post
09-03-2009, 01:58 AM
Depends on what you play. If you play a Blaster solo, CoX is tons more difficult. If you play a Mastermind on the other hand, it's tons easier...

Haha. Okay, I'll grant you that an MM solo is still the easy mode to end all easy modes. 90% of my CoX chars were Brutes, though, which are a bit painful in the mid 20s depending on build.

Archived Post
09-03-2009, 02:00 AM
ok thats good to know some might tk can do it , and did you get a dedicated healer ? we just overcharged our drones when someone was aggroed by megadestroid it was working, but most of the time for other encounters it wasnt working, drones pathing is terrible and they prefer to heal ach other than players.

That would be your problem right there. You shouldn't be relying on the drones as your primary healing.

Archived Post
09-03-2009, 02:03 AM
probably yes, but then i diddnt buy this game to shout "group looking for cleric ! PST!" , hope the game direction is not going towards that, espcially here i think healer builds are very rare.

Archived Post
09-03-2009, 02:07 AM
probably yes, but then i diddnt buy this game to shout "group looking for cleric ! PST!" , hope the game direction is not going towards that, espcially here i think healer builds are very rare.

True.

On the other hand, as long as I don't screw up and miss a block (and keep the range right so he doesn't hit me with that god awful "bash you over the head" attack) I can perma-tank the Mega without any healing support at all (despite being three levels lower). Granted, it's really hard to hold aggro that way (I can only squeeze in about one attack per cycle, and I have to be /really/ careful of the range), but it's doable.

That said, while dedicated support characters shouldn't be strictly necessary in a game like this, parties that cover the spread of powers and mesh well will always do better than five soloists who just happen to group up. A classless system is no excuse for not building a team player.

Archived Post
09-03-2009, 02:11 AM
Mortmal, my main is a healer, CC.

I have four Heals, a Single target channeled, a Big heal/energy builder, a shield/heal, and an AoE. If I can heal a toon in PvP with 5 players on him, I would hope they are big enough for the 5 man.

By 26 or so I would have those 4 heals and atleast 2 maybe 3 CC, and my PFF. Love my PFF even after the nerf.

This is an MMO and well as a support class I am happy I am needed to heal. I can't wait to try my hand in there since the nerf.

Archived Post
09-03-2009, 02:14 AM
Mortmal, my main is a healer, CC.

I have four Heals, a Single target channeled, a Big heal/energy builder, a shield/heal, and an AoE. If I can heal a toon in PvP with 5 players on him, I would hope they are big enough for the 5 man.

By 26 or so I would have those 4 heals and atleast 2 maybe 3 CC, and my PFF. Love my PFF even after the nerf.

This is an MMO and well as a support class I am happy I am needed to heal. I can't wait to try my hand in there since the nerf.

Think your life will be like that white mage(cleric) in this comic :
http://www.thenoobcomic.com/index.php?pos=339

Archived Post
09-03-2009, 02:15 AM
The one thing I have noticed in this game, is almost everyone is out for themselves. Sadly this game pre patch was a major solo paradise. Very rare to find anyone willing to group.

Archived Post
09-03-2009, 02:16 AM
That said, while dedicated support characters shouldn't be strictly necessary in a game like this, parties that cover the spread of powers and mesh well will always do better than five soloists who just happen to group up. A classless system is no excuse for not building a team player.

Well, actually the game was advertised on the basis that one could build the superhero one wanted. Was it presuming too much that these characters actually be playable too? What's the point of customization if only specialized cookie-cutter builds can be effective?

Just because YOU'RE fine, does not give you the right to tell less fortunate people to drop dead.

Archived Post
09-03-2009, 02:22 AM
Well, actually the game was advertised on the basis that one could build the superhero one wanted. Was it presuming too much that these characters actually be playable too? What's the point of customization if only specialized cookie-cutter builds can be effective?

Just because YOU'RE fine, does not give you the right to tell less fortunate people to drop dead.

FAIL.

Try some reading comprehension next time.

Archived Post
09-03-2009, 02:23 AM
I went in to Dr. Destroyer's Factory on a lark today just to see if I could do any of it by myself. I was surprised to get a small ways into it without dying, but couldn't get past the the two-console activation part (I couldn't activate the first console, get to the second, kill the spawn that pops when the first is activated, and activate it within the timeframe). It was a lot of fun, though, and I'd love to run it with a group at some point.

But yeah, I've had a lot of trouble trying to get a group together for one of the 5-man instances. I play a Support mode healy type, and am always up for grouping. :)

Archived Post
09-03-2009, 02:23 AM
Well, actually the game was advertised on the basis that one could build the superhero one wanted. Was it presuming too much that these characters actually be playable too? What's the point of customization if only specialized cookie-cutter builds can be effective?

Just because YOU'RE fine, does not give you the right to tell less fortunate people to drop dead.

What character are you playing that is unable to kill or handle anything? I have my support character, one DPS and a CC and I can handle a ton of mobs at one time. Tonight at level 15 I did 4 level 18 henchmen sometimes 5. Then I killed 3 henchmen and 1 villain, followed by a 2 villain 1 henchman group. Wasn't bad at all. I only had to teleport run twice, and that was due to a bad tab target that brought me two extra groups.

So I must ask what are your skills/build etc?

Archived Post
09-06-2009, 08:01 PM
The thing is, the existence of regeneration remove most incentive to have a healer support class. As it's been said here, a tank with regeneration and a specced block (one of those with lingering effect) can tank the mega and most things without even minor support heals from drones (and you don't even need him to be a tank build, with regen 1 and full block he can nearly do it, with regen 2 it's prolly available to anyone, provided you have enough CON to survive one hit). Take a tank with any other def power, and bye bye tank if you don't have a dedicated healer.

In the end, in such dungeon, you'll always have at least one person with regen and a specced block, and he will be the one tanking even though there's someone with a tank oriented build who simply didn't take regen, because why bring a healer when a dps who took regen and block for soloing can tank with no healer? For the tanks who used other defensive powers and could tank better with a dedicated healer? It'd be a bit smoother, sure, but not sure it'd be that faster easier, as you would then have one less dps (as the tank build most likely would have tanking advantages - threat/taunt - in places of pure damage advantages).

Now, take regeneration out of the picture, and now you can't do such content without at least one in the group having taken few healing support powers (not just a shield there a CC there), and you'll see much more of those, as there'll be incentive to do that while there's none now.

I don't ask for regeneration removal, but then maybe add similar effects to more defensive powers (so that you don't only have the choice between "I regen life" and "I take less damage", but more or less have most defensive powers be a mix of those two effects), and then tune group content to require at least some form of healing support in the group (probably only for 5 man), while leaving the rest like it is. Then healing support will be desirable to people, and lots will take a few heal here and there to help in instances. Maybe add more healing choices in the current powersets with healing (so that if you want to really heal you are not forced to mix 3 or 4 powersets), and add healing options (like 1 heal) to more powersets.

At the moment lots of people who want to have a "coherent" character won't simply mix 4 or 5 powersets to "min/max", but will stick to one or two powersets that make sens with their character design and history (after all, it's a MMO RPG, so you shouldn't be gimped if you feel to have a coherent rolepplay, should you?)

Archived Post
09-06-2009, 08:22 PM
The content in CO, as it stands, is substantially easier than equivalent level content in CoX at the moment.

You are plain out of your mind.

Archived Post
09-06-2009, 08:28 PM
Today I 3 man Destroyer Factory in a pug..Took hella long to kill the big ass robot at the end but with a 5 man i could see Factory going hella easy, i dont think it unplayable..And we were all about 25 or 26..