My crafting experience

[Archived Post]

I remember the first text-based game where I did some crafting, Armageddon. In some ways, the best crafting system ever done - things are somewhat easier in a text-based game where you don't need art assets. In other ways, astoundingly tedious and annoying. But I loved it, and I think it might have been the game that introduced player-made items as a source of fun to the MMO world.

Since then, I've loved to craft. I've been an industrialist in EVE Onlilne, which rather realistically portrays the complexities of real-world commerce, and I remember the horrible dumbing-down of crafting in WAR as something that really diminished my enjoyment of the game, and contributed to my departure from that game (along with other factors).

Having made it to Arms skill of 227, I'm ready to talk about my crafting experience so far in CO.

Tier 1 (skill 1-100): Ah. Yes. CO has crafting. Good. It's a bit bland, but it'll do.
Tier 2 (skill 101-200): Hey this is interesting - if I work at it, I can craft items that are as good as the loot that I'm getting, but it becomes equippable at lower levels! That's really useful, my alts and guildmates are especially going to benefit from this. Nice.
Tier 3 (skill 201-300): I can finally buy enhancements. But what do they do? Oh. THAT's what they do. And what's this quality slider about? Wow, that really changed things when I moved it. OMG. The implications. Wow. The implications! Crafting is awesome!!!

Thank you thank you thank you for the crafting system in CO. Please never dumb it down. Please let it continue being useful. Please let it continue to get even more useful as it goes on. This ROCKS. I'm really looking forward to unlocking tier 4.

[Archived Post]

sweet, the tier progression works. Thanks, I really want crafting in CO to be fun, challenging, and rewarding. I'm glad you are enjoying it.

[Archived Post]

I am really excited from looking at what I can make in the 200-300 area as well. However, my excitement is rapidly dropping as I seem to be unable to obtain any of the regular Epiphanies. My skill is 257 and rising, but I am not able to purchase the Blueprints for the items I wish to make, mainly a 210 power replacer.

Now I have researched every science item I have gotten from a quest and even spend all my money on the AH buying items 25-38 to research. However, I find it hard as hell to get something to give me 5/5 (which I can afford), but my skill keeps going up thus in turn makes it harder again to get a 5/5.

At this rate quest items will dwarf anything I can create and turn crafting into something you use to sell to others or my alternate characters.

I will point out my focus is mainly on Power Replacers because they look so awesome with the effects, which is why I want current level ones so they don't totally cripple me in the way of effects.

Any special tricks?

[Archived Post]

Tier 3 (skill 201-300): I can finally buy enhancements. But what do they do? Oh. THAT's what they do. And what's this quality slider about? Wow, that really changed things when I moved it. OMG. The implications. Wow. The implications! Crafting is awesome!!!.

Maybe I'm just an idiot, but I still have no idea what enhancements do. I've puchased two of them, but I don't see them in my development interface, nor any change to other things in development. Could you let me know where I'm supposed to see the ability to do something with it that you found so fascinating?

[Archived Post]

Maybe I'm just an idiot, but I still have no idea what enhancements do. I've puchased two of them, but I don't see them in my development interface, nor any change to other things in development. Could you let me know where I'm supposed to see the ability to do something with it that you found so fascinating?

You need some of the tier 3 blueprints from your specialty before the enhancements make sense. When you're in Development, some of the tier 3 prints have their names in italics - those are the ones that can be enhanced.

[Archived Post]

I am really excited from looking at what I can make in the 200-300 area as well. However, my excitement is rapidly dropping as I seem to be unable to obtain any of the regular Epiphanies. My skill is 257 and rising, but I am not able to purchase the Blueprints for the items I wish to make, mainly a 210 power replacer.

...

Any special tricks?

My research on the forums indicates that the drop rate for 'Insight' insights (and above) is lower than for the lower-level insights. 'Get the 5/5s and be patient' seems to be an important trick, maybe 'don't unlock the conversions' is a good idea too (I rarely use the conversions, although they are useful). I figure that when I get to tier 4, the tier 3 insights will be easier to get.

[Archived Post]

One caveat: my experience through Tier 3 is colored with beta lenses. I have not taken a character that high since launch, and things may have changed with Tier 2.

My experience was quite different:

Tier 1 (skill 1-100): Ah. Yes. CO has crafting. Good. It's a bit bland. Everything has really low resource recquirements, and it is really easy to get skill by crafting and breaking down the same items. There's pretty much only three Upgrades to make, but the bags are useful for keeping organized and the consumables are very helpful.

Tier 2 (skill 101-200): Hey this is interesting - if I work at it, I can craft items that are as good as the loot that I'm getting, but it becomes equippable at lower levels! That could be really useful, but the resource recquirements on the upgrades make it unlikely that I'll be able to craft anything before I'm more than halfway through the tier. I spend all of Tier 2 Experimenting, carefully gathering every quest-reward Upgrade I can get to increase my materials, and finally make one item for myself sometime past 170. I also learn in this tier that gathering from resource nodes is pointless for actual production, as the resource costs are very high and each crate gives usually 1, rarely 2 or 3 items.

Tier 3 (skill 201-300): I can finally buy enhancements. But what do they do? Oh. THAT's what they do. And what's this quality slider about? Wow, that really changed things when I moved it. OMG. The implications. Wow. The implications! Crafting has real potential! I can even set the quality low enough to be able to CRAFT some things. I gather some materials, make some Upgrades, and have fun with crafting and trying out various stat combinations.


Basically, Tier 2 kind of sucks. Tier 1 goes by extremely fast (at least, for Arms and Science. Seemed slow for Mysticism, but that might just be too much Presence on early game Mysticism quest rewards). Skill 205 is where crafting first gets awesome. By skill 250, it's one of the most fun systems I've worked with in any game I've played. However, between 109 (cheaper to carefully get 99 and use a 5 star experiment to jump straight to 109) and 205, the system sucks. It is a boring, repetitious grind consisting of finding every available Upgrade and churning them through the Research pane. Costs are high enough and Experiment income is low enough that producing an item is unlikely.

Also, for the most part, you are limited to the same three Upgrades from Skill 1 to Skill 205. Each item for a slot is just a higher level version of the last item for that slot. There is precious little variation, especially for characters like most of the ones I like to play that do not use weapons.

TL;DR: Jazz up Tier 2 somehow and you've got a real winner on your hand. Pretty good otherwise, just a really nasty dolldrum to grind through before you get to the good stuff.

[Archived Post]

sweet, the tier progression works. Thanks, I really want crafting in CO to be fun, challenging, and rewarding. I'm glad you are enjoying it.

Glad that you're glad - development and design is hard work :)

And now for my feature request! I converted 100 units of a common into the uncommon - doing that 5 units at a time was mildly boring (but not too bad). The ability to set a quantity for conversions would be nice, and I'd be willing to forego the skill increase rolls for the convenience.

[Archived Post]

My "problem" with crafting (and I'm using the word "problem" loosely) is two-fold:

1) crafting doesn't make sense for every superhero concept and
2)it seems to seriously disadvantage the player who doesn't want to craft.

There are certainly superheros in the comics that "craft": Reed Richards, Batman, Iron Man, Dr Strange. There are others that clearly don't: the Hulk, the Flash, Thor, Green Lantern.

The idea of the Hulk sitting down at a workbench to research how to build a new gizmometer is a bit odd. :D

That's aesthetics. The second issue is more substantive: if you don't craft you fall behind the curve.

Personally I'd have preferred a system where the ability to craft was purchased, say as a talent. That way you could decide if you wanted your character to have his powers "built in" or "added". To really make sense I'd make the ability to fit enhancements purchasable as well - you want a primary offensive slot, you buy one.

That's probably a minority view, and frankly it's not a game killer in any way. Given the choice I'd much rather a game that adds crafting in and keeps players that love that sort of thing happy. Who knows, maybe this will be the game that finally gets me into that group.

[Archived Post]

The idea of the Hulk sitting down at a workbench to research how to build a new gizmometer is a bit odd. :D


The Hulk crafts all the time, usually working with Reed Richards. of course, he's wearing a Bruce Banner suit at the time...

I actually used my second costume slot to make a costume that my guy wears around the city / while crafting. I could easily see someone doing the same to more of an extreme to represent a transformation.

[Archived Post]

The idea of the Hulk sitting down at a workbench to research how to build a new gizmometer is a bit odd. :D


Well, Bruce being a scientist, it's perhaps less unlikely than some other superheroes, but I get your point. Fortunately, there's stuff in the 'crafting' system that helps rationalise this. If you take Fighting Styles as your crafting specialty, then you're not sitting at a workbench, you're practicing in a dojo. Maybe.

Let's face it, for everyone except gadgeteers and power armour, almost none of the equipement really makes sense. I don't need it to make sense.

To your other point, yes, those who don't craft (and don't buy from craftspeople) are at a disadvantage. Not a major one, though. And, well, crafting takes an amount of time and effort that could go into other activities that would confer some other advantage. I think it works out.

[Archived Post]

As a follow up I think I might have found how to better get your special items to purchase blueprints. Thoughts are you need 5/5 experiment to have the best chance. This is a real pain to get on single items. However, I noticed if I keep adding in items to the list, eventually it will work up to 5/5. Only had enough items to do this two (2) times, but I was successful in getting my Epiphany on the second.

Anyone else notice this trend?

[Archived Post]

The Hulk crafts all the time, usually working with Reed Richards. of course, he's wearing a Bruce Banner suit at the time...
I wondered if somebody was going to say that... ;)

I actually used my second costume slot to make a costume that my guy wears around the city / while crafting. I could easily see someone doing the same to more of an extreme to represent a transformation.
That's the kind of quirky thing that appeals to me. I guess I'm still a role-player at heart.

[Archived Post]

Basically, Tier 2 kind of sucks.

Have to agree. Tier 1 feels like a tutorial (which you can at least burn through very fast); tier 2 feels like sitting in the waiting room until you get access to the crafting system at level 21. If the whole thing had just been level-gated so that you can't learn crafting until level 21, it would have been about as interesting, and less hassle. Tier 2 needs a rethink.

Also, the way you can't collect important resources (ie, anything that matters for tier 3) until level 21? Not amusing. Very, very tired of running up to a node, clearing out the NPCs around it, just to receive "You must be skill 201 to use this".

As far as progression in the upper tiers is concerned, I have only one real issue: some stats are second class citizens. You want to make an item with a constitution enhancement? No problem, that one comes early. You want presence? Sorry dude, sorcery characters get the shaft again, come back in ten levels.

(It would also be helpful if the tooltips on enhancements actually showed what they do; half of them don't, so you have to try applying them and then look at the item created)

[Archived Post]

I remember the first text-based game where I did some crafting, Armageddon. In some ways, the best crafting system ever done - things are somewhat easier in a text-based game where you don't need art assets. In other ways, astoundingly tedious and annoying. But I loved it, and I think it might have been the game that introduced player-made items as a source of fun to the MMO world.

Since then, I've loved to craft. I've been an industrialist in EVE Onlilne, which rather realistically portrays the complexities of real-world commerce, and I remember the horrible dumbing-down of crafting in WAR as something that really diminished my enjoyment of the game, and contributed to my departure from that game (along with other factors).

Having made it to Arms skill of 227, I'm ready to talk about my crafting experience so far in CO.

Tier 1 (skill 1-100): Ah. Yes. CO has crafting. Good. It's a bit bland, but it'll do.
Tier 2 (skill 101-200): Hey this is interesting - if I work at it, I can craft items that are as good as the loot that I'm getting, but it becomes equippable at lower levels! That's really useful, my alts and guildmates are especially going to benefit from this. Nice.
Tier 3 (skill 201-300): I can finally buy enhancements. But what do they do? Oh. THAT's what they do. And what's this quality slider about? Wow, that really changed things when I moved it. OMG. The implications. Wow. The implications! Crafting is awesome!!!

Thank you thank you thank you for the crafting system in CO. Please never dumb it down. Please let it continue being useful. Please let it continue to get even more useful as it goes on. This ROCKS. I'm really looking forward to unlocking tier 4.

Yeah I support this 100%. I'm having a blast with crafting. It's fun and challenging enough to remain interesting, but not so hard it deters from messing with it (Vanguard anyone? did anyone even play that game other than me? :P ).

Despite all the nay-sayers you guys have just as many fans out there, keep up the good work and don't make me regret my lifetime SUB!!!



<3

Hasta

[Archived Post]

Im doing great... been stuck at 300, but have one more level to go.

Made a nice +50 STR Item at level 28 for my brawler, in fact I rarely even look at my loot or rewards now, I can build things that are far better. Almost everything I have equipped it a rare, my stats are decent, there heavy on STR and Con which are my base stats.

Im doing Arms, fighting Styles and for the most part its a nice combo for Melee based skill sets.

[Archived Post]

Im doing great... been stuck at 300, but have one more level to go.

Made a nice +50 STR Item at level 28 for my brawler, in fact I rarely even look at my loot or rewards now, I can build things that are far better. Almost everything I have equipped it a rare, my stats are decent, there heavy on STR and Con which are my base stats.

Im doing Arms, fighting Styles and for the most part its a nice combo for Melee based skill sets.

See and that's how it should be I feel. It sucks when the crafting system (WoW) doesn't mean crap. You spend all that time lvling it up and then once it's maxed you can't use it for anything. I hope crafted gear continues to remain on par with some end game stuff. Obviously extremely difficult fights should yield better equipment, but I'm all for crafted gear being very useful. It will stimulate the economy and encourage people to really take a serious look at the crafting system CO has to offer. While the interface is simplistic and easy to use, the system itself is actually pretty complicated (but just enough to make it fun). This is one of the best features of the game in it's infancy imho.



hasta

[Archived Post]

Yeah I support this 100%. I'm having a blast with crafting. It's fun and challenging enough to remain interesting, but not so hard it deters from messing with it (Vanguard anyone? did anyone even play that game other than me? :P ).

Despite all the nay-sayers you guys have just as many fans out there, keep up the good work and don't make me regret my lifetime SUB!!!



<3

Hasta

I played VG, still do actually. And yes, VG's crafting system was incredibly frustrateing, but once mastered, the rewards were far better than the frustration involved getting to max lvl.