Is it possible to build a Melee character who isn't gimped?

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I made a Single Blade character, and have been playing with my friend who uses Munitions. Thought with Invulnerability I don't have issues surviving, I do kill things at about a third of the speed in which she kills things. I just want to know how to build a Melee character (and please don't suggest taking a lot of ranged moves, because that both doesn't suit my concept) Who can do as much damage/kill things remotely as fast as her. I hear Might is the only viable way to build a Melee character, but does it really do THAT much more damage than single blades?.. I don't need to be PvP viable, I just don't want to feel like I'm not bringing anything to the group.. any advice?...

Basic Information on Character is Str/Con based, Reaprs touch, Reapers Caress (rank 2) Shuriken (chained Kunai), Invulnerability. I actually have 2 unspent powers cause I'm having a hard time choosing with no option to respec.. Here's hoping they fix that soon.

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PVP or PVE?

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Sorry, I read your post the second time and I must have overlooked your point about not really needing PVP. Well I can say that I wreck havoc with Dual Blades.

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I made a Single Blade character, and have been playing with my friend who uses Munitions. Thought with Invulnerability I don't have issues surviving, I do kill things at about a third of the speed in which she kills things. I just want to know how to build a Melee character (and please don't suggest taking a lot of ranged moves, because that both doesn't suit my concept) Who can do as much damage/kill things remotely as fast as her. I hear Might is the only viable way to build a Melee character, but does it really do THAT much more damage than single blades?.. I don't need to be PvP viable, I just don't want to feel like I'm not bringing anything to the group.. any advice?...

Basic Information on Character is Str/Con based, Reaprs touch, Reapers Caress (rank 2) Shuriken (chained Kunai), Invulnerability. I actually have 2 unspent powers cause I'm having a hard time choosing with no option to respec.. Here's hoping they fix that soon.

im assuming your friend is munitions and specced dex/ego, thus making him/her squishy as all hell. Its what we like to call a tradeoff. You have STR/CON and invulnerability, so you dont die, but you dont crit-out-the-butt like a dex/ego munitions toon. You also do less damage as a result.

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Not for PvP, not right now at least.

The fact of the matter is that purely melee characters are bad in PvP at the moment. Every higher damage class that should be squishy is not being so because they all pick up Invulnerability and some type or Regen/Self-Heal so at this point everyone I've encountered (With two exceptions) is as hard to kill as my Might character is. The only difference is that they have ranged energy builders which helps them A LOT.

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She is Dex/Ego, and obviously she can critical higher than me, but even when she isn't criting (she's in the same room so I can watch her screen and judge damage) she does about twice as much damage per second. Base damage, shouldn't I do more?.. shouldn't strength be boosting that?

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I am seriously thinking about rebuilding my tank just to be able to add in a ranged END builder. I am really starting to kick myself in the ass at level 15 for picking might as my starting framework.

I dont really miss any of the rest, but not having a ranged end builder really makes it tough keeping up with fully ranged players. Trying to tank with a partner whos ranged is nearly impossible with a melee ranged end builder in my experience.

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She is Dex/Ego, and obviously she can critical higher than me, but even when she isn't criting (she's in the same room so I can watch her screen and judge damage) she does about twice as much damage per second. Base damage, shouldn't I do more?.. shouldn't strength be boosting that?

i cant imagine you not doing good damage if you are built right. The only problem would be PVP as someone else stated. You know that strength has nothing to do with your damage, and superstats are all that matters, correct? You need to stack it. Also, maybe you took some bad powers. I know for blades that the whirlwind-esque attack is pretty badass. Also the attack that has a stacking bleed gets pretty nasty on high HP Boss mobs. Sorry I cant offer more insight I play a blaster-esque type of toon.

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Telekinesis is hands down the best melee framework atm.

assuming that the original poster's claims are the result of super stat choices isn't particularly accurate. players like WingedKagouti and others have actually tested the numbers and Melee does worse damage than Ranged, this was established well before MA frameworks were damage-nerfed in open beta too.

the only melee attacks that compete with ranged are the ego blade powers, especially ego blade frenzy and ego annihilation.

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I built my tank with mainly a might build but added wrist bolt shooter (or w/e it is called) as an energy builder. It has been great so far. On my first tank, I had a melee energy builder and then spent too much time chasing bad guys to smack em for energy. In terms of pvp, forget it.

The ranged energy builder is great with might and all of its KB powers. You knock em 40 feet away and then build energy as they run back to you so you smack em again! Love it.

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Ahh. Yes, my character (the munitions character spoken of in the first post) is indeed DEX/EGO, though at the moment my ego is a bit better. My critical chance is hovering around 20%, whereas my critical severity is around 105%.

I've also been focusing, in a secondary sort of manner after DEX and EGO, on the Recovery stat. Foofer and I have just reached level 15, but while we were going through some missions at 14 I found that I could take out around three level 15 goon-like guys with Two-Gun Mojo + Killer Instinct, without even needing to touch my energy builder. Realistically I should be turning it on for each guy to get a few more shots in between Two-Gun Mojo rounds, yes, but this isn't at all the point I'm trying to make.

Which, upon said topic, I don't really know what that is. I'm just trying to add more information to what Foofer was getting at >.<


As far as I am concerned though, and I know this may, hmm, seem a little bit hypocritical coming from a person who's taken Two Gun Mojo in Champions Online, but I don't really worry about how effective my character is? I really liked, at the beginning of the Open Beta, when everyone was awesome. No mater what kind of character you made, you could run around doing PvE and really feel like you're a superhero, with your big damage numbers and your crazy travel powers! I'm told that this has changed, but I guess because Munitions wasn't altered I haven't noticed it personally.
Balancing stuff for PvP is useless, I think. No matter what you do, unless you everything the same, it can never be equal. Unless everything does the same damage and applies the same effects, it'll always be .... you'll always have someone complaining that this, or that, is unfair. Everyone should just be awesome.

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-I can tell you that with my level 12 Single Blade guy i have fun, but i bought a single ranged power for those times my stun/root doesn't stick. Not necessary, but i liked having that back-up just in case.

In PvE it'll be hard to be gimped if you learn to play the character. My guy is Str/Con, so i Alpha with the biggest damn thing i can find pick it up and throw it, especially if i hit groups of henchmen for that AoE goodness everyone raves about.

It's all in yer perspective, but against any primarily-ranged guy, you may feel gimpy. You aren't, but you have to close distance (and look damn cool doing it) to prove it.

Good luck fellow SB'er, and trust in Swallowtail Cut.

Rattletrap

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I'm a dex/rec ranged who "crits out the butt" and I am by no means "squishy". Rank 3 regen helps a lot, and if that ever fails I can always teleport out of sticky situations.
I do feel that single blade damage should deffinately be higher especiall since most attacks focus on a single target.

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As a level 18 telekinesis character, I can tell you that yes, it is possible to build a melee character who isn't gimped.

In PvE I have very little trouble mowing through missions. Even missions that say I should bring 2 or 3 people I can solo(though some are a bit more difficult than others).

The key to playing a good telekinesis character is to focus on END/CON. Ego Form, which gives you a second blade for all of your ego blade attacks, has its damage increased by endurance and its physical damage reduction increased by constitution. Couple that with rank 3 Ego Weaponry, rank 3 Ego Blade Frenzy, Ego Choke(which is incredibly useful) and your choice of healing ability and you're solid.

Your damage output at range will be weak, but if you upgrade Ego Choke the range increases from 50 feet to 100 feet.

I can't really speak on PvP because I haven't participated in any matches. But in PvE, I'm a machine.

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might is really easy mode
haymaker + shockwave = easy game

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Not for PvP, not right now at least.

The fact of the matter is that purely melee characters are bad in PvP at the moment. Every higher damage class that should be squishy is not being so because they all pick up Invulnerability and some type or Regen/Self-Heal so at this point everyone I've encountered (With two exceptions) is as hard to kill as my Might character is. The only difference is that they have ranged energy builders which helps them A LOT.

What Cryptic really should do is enforce roles more by making slotted passives not work on balanced specced characters and make more powers require a certain role

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I made a Single Blade character, and have been playing with my friend who uses Munitions. Thought with Invulnerability I don't have issues surviving, I do kill things at about a third of the speed in which she kills things. I just want to know how to build a Melee character (and please don't suggest taking a lot of ranged moves, because that both doesn't suit my concept) Who can do as much damage/kill things remotely as fast as her. I hear Might is the only viable way to build a Melee character, but does it really do THAT much more damage than single blades?.. I don't need to be PvP viable, I just don't want to feel like I'm not bringing anything to the group.. any advice?...

Basic Information on Character is Str/Con based, Reaprs touch, Reapers Caress (rank 2) Shuriken (chained Kunai), Invulnerability. I actually have 2 unspent powers cause I'm having a hard time choosing with no option to respec.. Here's hoping they fix that soon.

I am quite happy with my Might/Supernatural brute. Decent AOE damage, excellent survivability.

Key skills are Bite, Roomsweeper and Havoc Stomp coupled with Regeneration and Defiance depending on the situation.

I didn't build him to be effective but to be fun, and I enjoy every minute of playing him.

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What Cryptic really should do is enforce roles more by making slotted passives not work on balanced specced characters and make more powers require a certain role

yes because none will winge about that at all.

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...you really should fill out your skills. Scything Blade, Dragon's Bite, Reaper's Embrace...

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All the melee frameworks just need to be brought up in line with Ego Blades; it is where melee attacks should be, IMO.

Further, I think all of the AoE attacks need to be toned down a bit; on my Fire toon in CB, my strongest single target attacks affected everything in a 15' sphere from 50' away. Conflagration had significantly higher DPS than most single-target melee attacks.

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The key to playing a good telekinesis character is to focus on END/CON. Ego Form, which gives you a second blade for all of your ego blade attacks, has its damage increased by endurance and its physical damage reduction increased by constitution. Couple that with rank 3 Ego Weaponry, rank 3 Ego Blade Frenzy, Ego Choke(which is incredibly useful) and your choice of healing ability and you're solid.

OK. Call me confused. With so many powers with the name EGO right there in the name shouldn't EGO be a more important attribute than END?

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You know that strength has nothing to do with your damage, and superstats are all that matters, correct?Incorrect.

According to Devs, for melee abilities strength has about 1/2 the effect on damage as a normal superstat. So say you have two superstats as a meleer, one is strength and one is dex (as this is common to do, with ego being built up with equipment). Let's say they're both at equal levels. If dex is giving you 30% damage, your strength would be giving you 45%.

This is, again, only for melee attacks, and not ranged. I assume this is supposed to make melee attacks hit harder but--

WingedKagouti and others have actually tested the numbers and Melee does worse damage than Ranged
Here's a thread with the 'current' numbers as of the close of open beta. (http://forums.champions-online.com/showthread.php?t=38657) The strength damage does nothing to counteract the overall weaker base DPS.

The key to playing a good telekinesis character is to focus on END/CON. Ego Form, which gives you a second blade for all of your ego blade attacks, has its damage increased by endurance and its physical damage reduction increased by constitution.

Sub-optimal. What you want to do is get incisive wit (I believe it's called) on your energy builder, which will proc your dual ID blades. With that proc ego form no longer grants extra damage freeing you up to take a different passive, such as shadow form, which results in a larger damage over all if your stats are built to Shadowform's strength.

...you really should fill out your skills. Scything Blade, Dragon's Bite, Reaper's Embrace...

Wouldn't help. Their damage is weaker than ranged equivalents just like every other melee power.

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Just a quick question: When does Dex/Ego become squishy? Perhaps it is because I am using Force Sheathe (ridiculously good btw) and regen but on my Dex/Ego character I've been able to tank Cosmics and Duo'd as the tank through the Labs in canada with relative ease

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Ive gone with Dual Blades/Munitions. I like being up close and personal with the DB energy builder, plus with the "close the gap" advantage of Two gun Mojo, even the health of Master Villains drops radically. I chose DEX/CON for my superstats. I may not have the punch of EGO but being in Melee I dont see how one can pass up CON. My Crit is at 29% at level 20 with only 34% Crit Severity. Two gun mojo hits equal level master villains for crits of 120 plus and is very consistant in those numbers. Now one might complain that its not that high compared to a DEX/EGO but considering the speed at which those numbers fly up... Im most definitely NOT left wanting.

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Just a quick question: When does Dex/Ego become squishy? Perhaps it is because I am using Force Sheathe (ridiculously good btw) and regen but on my Dex/Ego character I've been able to tank Cosmics and Duo'd as the tank through the Labs in canada with relative ease

Around 20 damage starts to ramp up a lot, I've been hit for almost 1000 before on my Might character, maybe 1 Defiance stack up so I was just not paying attention (luckily he has like 3200 hp so it wasn't to bad hahaha)

And to those who say they are Might and took ranged power builders because they were tired of mobs running away, if you took Defiance and ranked it up, you really don't need to hit anything, Defiance will keep your end flowing just from being hit, endless endurance + tapping Havoc Stomp = wrecking ball, also extremely easy to cap Enrage stacks with enough mobs around you, very nice...

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Around 20 damage starts to ramp up a lot, I've been hit for almost 1000 before on my Might character, maybe 1 Defiance stack up so I was just not paying attention (luckily he has like 3200 hp so it wasn't to bad hahaha)

And to those who say they are Might and took ranged power builders because they were tired of mobs running away, if you took Defiance and ranked it up, you really don't need to hit anything, Defiance will keep your end flowing just from being hit, endless endurance + tapping Havoc Stomp = wrecking ball, also extremely easy to cap Enrage stacks with enough mobs around you, very nice...

But...but I'm 32 :(

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Just a quick question: When does Dex/Ego become squishy? Perhaps it is because I am using Force Sheathe (ridiculously good btw) and regen but on my Dex/Ego character I've been able to tank Cosmics and Duo'd as the tank through the Labs in canada with relative ease

It's a massive coincidence keeping you alive; Regen is able to crit (which is probably a bug), causing your Dex/Ego super stats to make your regeneration about 50% stronger than it should be.

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It's a massive coincidence keeping you alive; Regen is able to crit (which is probably a bug), causing your Dex/Ego super stats to make your regeneration about 50% stronger than it should be.

LOL oh ya that is still bugged, the first time it crits it will continue to crit over and over, had that happen on my Ego blader in a Hero Game I went like 14 and 0 it was awesome :D

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It's a massive coincidence keeping you alive; Regen is able to crit (which is probably a bug), causing your Dex/Ego super stats to make your regeneration about 50% stronger than it should be.

There are other factors--like having a good block power and knowing when/how to block, knowing when to use resurgence, avoiding taking more aggro than you can handle, stacking some con on as a third stat with equipment, stacking damage resistance on with equipment, etc. etc.

I don't think any build really gets squishy like people would think from playing other MMORPGs, to be honest. Squishier than a str/con build with invuln? Yeah, probably. But not to the same degree someone might think.

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So, is DEX/EGO viable at all for a melee character?

Just wondering why every melee character has to have super strength just to be viable. It seems kind of ... lame ... especially for a martial arts based character.

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str scales melee by default, even if it isn't a superstat. str is also one of the stats supporting invulnerability, which is popular since melees tend to take a lot of this.

Dex/ego is viable though. Supposed to be good with regeneration since the healing can crit unless they nerfed it.

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Not for PvP, not right now at least.

The fact of the matter is that purely melee characters are bad in PvP at the moment. Every higher damage class that should be squishy is not being so because they all pick up Invulnerability and some type or Regen/Self-Heal so at this point everyone I've encountered (With two exceptions) is as hard to kill as my Might character is. The only difference is that they have ranged energy builders which helps them A LOT.

No purely melee is not in fact BAD in pvp at the moment, plenty of people are BAD but the powersets are not BAD as a result.

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It depends on what the crit chance and crit multipliers bonus you get from the extra dex/ego of picking those stats instead.
Now if the extra crit * crit damage multiplier is equal to ((str/X superstat damage bonus +100%)/(dex/ego super stat bonus +100%)-1)*100 the two builds will do the damage per unit time.
Assuming you get +50% damage from superstating, IE DEX/EGO gets 100% damage bonus STR/X will get 125%.
So according to the above its ((125%+100%)/(100%+100%)-1)*100=((2.25/2)-1)*100=(1.125-1)*100=0.125*100=12.5%
IE if the extra crit chance* the extra crit bonus =12.5% then dex/ego is equal to str/X in damage output.
If its greater than 12.5% dex/ego wins.
Does anyone know what the superstat bonus for a lvl is? As if I knew I be able to tell you what is really best.

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Does anyone know what the superstat bonus for a lvl is? As if I knew I be able to tell you what is really best.
It starts off at 20 at level 5 or 6 when you first get it, and caps off at 80 at level 40.

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This game is so easy- I dont think you could gimp yourself in PvE even if you tried.



But PvP is the exact opposite. If you don't pick specific Overpowered FotM powers- you are gimped.

Of course that doesn't mean you still can't whoop FotM butt in PvP gimped.

But that is rather irrelevant of the problem.

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OK. Call me confused. With so many powers with the name EGO right there in the name shouldn't EGO be a more important attribute than END?
probably, but it's too late to change now.

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I don't see how you can claim that melee is inherantly gimped when I have a lvl 16 who solos groups of lvl 18-19s in 5:1 situations. And who was able to solo the Fight Club mission at lvl 14.

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probably, but it's too late to change now.

No it isnt.

Just last week they revamped Sorcery like crazy.

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I don't see how you can claim that melee is inherantly gimped when I have a lvl 16 who solos groups of lvl 18-19s in 5:1 situations. And who was able to solo the Fight Club mission at lvl 14.

and what build melee would that be?

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I actually have no problem with survivability, except on some bosses. Invulnerability keeps me alive when 6 guys are beating on me (and it's a good thing too, because it takes me forever to bring them down) I don't feel like the game is too hard. In fact, I think the game should be harder.. I feel more.. emasculated the tiny girl with two guns takes out three guys in the time it takes my hulking barbarian to take out one.

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On the note of STR/DEX versus DEX/EGO, I've had plenty of success with the former without fully testing the latter with single blade. Even with STR, still went Regen for lack of a respectable CON secondary.

As to the er...emasculation problem. I've copped the same-ish kill rate just slapping Scything Blade on each individual target. The attack itself had high base damage (STR, rank, etc), and they all bled to death by the time I manually killed two or three. Honestly, the only advantage I think my Munitions toon had over my MA was Shotgun juggling. My MA embarrassed the hell out of it when it came to boss fights.

Also, you earn style points for playing a framework that damn near everyone says is "gimped," "underpowered," "over-nerfed."

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Im a Dual Blader at 22 atm and loving my guy.

I went all out Dex/Ego and with the insane fast speed and AoE of Dual Blades (only one of my 4 attacks isnt AoE) I melt face. Sword Cyclone is an insane power which will kill any grunt or lieutenant upto +4 lvls above in one maintained move. I tend to hit for 100-130 dmg 2 or 3 times per second per mob with a 29% crit 90% ego crit rate, it adds up very fast. Regen keeps me up and masterful dodge (?sp) helps me in holds.

I use Thunderbolt lunge to close gaps fast, Essence assault helps when I fancy attempting pvp. I have some munitions in there conceptually cos nothing looks more awesome than leaping into a pack of enemy, smashing off some aoE and then back flipping out dropping their last health with pistol rounds.

I can be squishy, sometimes insanely so but overall Im very happy and wouldnt say DB is gimped. Its certainly not perfect but lets give it some time. My main weak point in PvP is definitely CC. Despite my Ego being very high I dont seem to resist many holds and Im often perma rooted/KB'd/snared cos I havent stacked much str. If I can get around this and land a charge skill or two then I can spray around some ok ish dmg.

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Well personally I played a baster Ice/Force/Elec to lvl 14 and just played a Single Blade/ Supernatural to lvl 14 and had more fun with the latter which is more melee focus with claw as the energy builder. I did kill much faster with the blaster but I also died a lot more if I got too big a group on me. I also had more problems with master villains and super villains if I mistimed my block and got held - it was all over for me.

The same isn't true with what I call my vampire build. Condemn makes a big difference though as it is a ranged attack - but I have no ranged energy building - but with lots of recovery euipment I seem to build energy pretty fast ith Claw and Claw does decent damage.

Sometimes you have to go with the concept you have in for your character to have fun vs. just doing tones of damage.

I also took a Two gun Mojo blaster to lvl 12 already - but dropped her ialso in favor of the melee character - it just seems to have more appeal swooping into a group of mobs and clawing and biting - and whipping out the sword for some slashing and if I get too many hitting condemn which usually stuns the group.

It's about having fun.

One question....does Lunging Kick only disable travel powers with the Advantage? I think I want it because so many people fly around in PvP.

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On the note of STR/DEX versus DEX/EGO, I've had plenty of success with the former without fully testing the latter with single blade. Even with STR, still went Regen for lack of a respectable CON secondary.

Out of curiosity, I remade my STR/DEX MA-Unarmed character using DEX/EGO. With STR/DEX, my DPS output was pathetic and I couldn't even last a few seconds in the center of a pack of henchmen (even with Lightning Reflexes and Masterful Dodge). Now, with DEX/EGO, I'm 'critting' every other hit, and defeating my targets almost twice as fast. With STR/DEX, I could barely take on villains of equal level or one level higher. Now, with DEX/EGO, I'm taking on villains two levels higher with about the same challenge.

So, what gives?

Is STR/DEX truly "better" for MA-Unarmed? Or is DEX/EGO more viable (at least at the lower levels), just more reliant on crits? At this point, I'm just not seeing the melee bonus from STR as meaning a whole lot--not when the crit damage potential from having a high EGO supercedes it.

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Out of curiosity, I remade my STR/DEX MA-Unarmed character using DEX/EGO. With STR/DEX, my DPS output was pathetic and I couldn't even last a few seconds in the center of a pack of henchmen (even with Lightning Reflexes and Masterful Dodge). Now, with DEX/EGO, I'm 'critting' every other hit, and defeating my targets almost twice as fast. With STR/DEX, I could barely take on villains of equal level or one level higher. Now, with DEX/EGO, I'm taking on villains two levels higher with about the same challenge.

So, what gives?

Is STR/DEX truly "better" for MA-Unarmed? Or is DEX/EGO more viable (at least at the lower levels), just more reliant on crits? At this point, I'm just not seeing the melee bonus from STR as meaning a whole lot--not when the crit damage potential from having a high EGO supercedes it.

I was almost always slotted passive with Regeneration. Don't get me wrong, I'm probably gonna launch the character I'm just about to create as DEX/EGO, cause the only long term "advantage" I can think of STR is being able to hurl a tractor trailer at a mob as a gambit. It looks awesome, it's effective, but it's just not enough--

So, STR if you want to lob heavy machinery at a target and/or use Invuln; otherwise, probably not worth it...even though it really does seem to effect your ability to break free of "tangible holds." There are other skills to effect that (Energy Forms) or otherwise survive (Active Defenses, and maybe Force Eruption to an extent).