Is Thunderbolt Lunge still worth it?

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With the added timer I mean. I want to know if It's still a must for PvP or if there's something better.. with a melee character obviously.

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I don't care what anyone says, i love it. Yeah, kind of a shame that there's a cooldown (there was nothing like spamming TL on destroids during the End of Beta event), but it's still pretty sweet. Helped me actually get some hits in a lot during the Qularr Head Start event while the ranged champs cleaned house.

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With the added timer I mean. I want to know if It's still a must for PvP or if there's something better.. with a melee character obviously.

There is no must. Just play the game you want your character to be and in time your powerset will do fine:rolleyes:

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There is no must. Just play the game you want your character to be and in time your powerset will do fine:rolleyes:

were talking pvp here. there is no honor among competitors. you play to win man. Thunderbolt lunge and grenades are what I am thinking about.

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its an added timer AND a damage nerf AND it costs noticeable endurance now.

It seems like most of the "nerfs" thus far, they take something which is overpowered & needs to be toned down, and hack it to bits so that it's no longer a viable power at all.

Realistically, Thunderbolt Lunge only needed an endurance cost OR damage nerf OR cooldown timer. Any single one of these would have made it so that you could no longer spam it to win a fight. But with all 3? The power looks utterly worthless as far as I can tell. All it needed for balance was an endurance cost which was reasonably scaled to its damage. I kinda assumed the 1.2 end cost was a programming typo and that it should have been 12 end cost, which would have 'fixed' the power right there.

I have Thunderbolt Lunge on a character, and I can no longer respec out of it. It's the character I've been working on since headstart started. I really don't know what to do with that character now. I anticipated that they would nerf TL, and I figured that it was kinda overpowered and that would be fair and ok. But they nerfed it to the point that I would rather not have the power at all now, and I'm kinda stuck with it.

It's really a pity they went so overboard nerfing this, it has a beautiful animation, and really fit well with an acrobatics/nimble melee character concept. Currently it exists as a way to close the distance between yourself and a target, and has no other value. (which really isn't very valuable considering how mobile & dynamic as combat is in this game)

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its an added timer AND a damage nerf AND it costs noticeable endurance now.

It seems like most of the "nerfs" thus far, they take something which is overpowered & needs to be toned down, and hack it to bits so that it's no longer a viable power at all.

Realistically, Thunderbolt Lunge only needed an endurance cost OR damage nerf OR cooldown timer. Any single one of these would have made it so that you could no longer spam it to win a fight. But with all 3? The power looks utterly worthless as far as I can tell. All it needed for balance was an endurance cost which was reasonably scaled to its damage. I kinda assumed the 1.2 end cost was a programming typo and that it should have been 12 end cost, which would have 'fixed' the power right there.

I have Thunderbolt Lunge on a character, and I can no longer respec out of it. It's the character I've been working on since headstart started. I really don't know what to do with that character now. I anticipated that they would nerf TL, and I figured that it was kinda overpowered and that would be fair and ok. But they nerfed it to the point that I would rather not have the power at all now, and I'm kinda stuck with it.

It's really a pity they went so overboard nerfing this, it has a beautiful animation, and really fit well with an acrobatics/nimble melee character concept. Currently it exists as a way to close the distance between yourself and a target, and has no other value. (which really isn't very valuable considering how mobile & dynamic as combat is in this game)

agreed.
I sometimes wonder if gaming companies reglarily hire manic, bipolar people hopped up on caffein to do their powers rebalancing. It's just got "impulsive, instafix, nerf-bat-installed, emotional, overreation to complaints, quasi-rebalance" written all over it, just liek what happened to iron cyclone. It's now worthless because there are cheaper powers that do more. it did way too much damage, but it's costs accounted for this. Now it's too short, has a cooldown, sucks too much end and doesn't do enough damage to bother with.

devs, don't make the kneejerk mistakes that CoX made with FOTM powers. You made these things into the OP things they are, you created their interrelationships. Breaking their funx to prevent abuse just means that now you have chunks of the game that are worthless, not parts that aren't OP. there's a difference between restoring balance and cosmic-smackdown-on-abuse.
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It sitll gets you into melee and knocks off their travel power right? the fact that it DOES damage and knockdown is really jus tgravy, and there's no real reason to spam it, so I don't see endurance or recharge mattering that much.

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It sitll gets you into melee and knocks off their travel power right? the fact that it DOES damage and knockdown is really jus tgravy, and there's no real reason to spam it, so I don't see endurance or recharge mattering that much.
the fact that it does these only when going forward, other wise it just makes you back flip is my problem with it.
with a 6 second cool down you can't jump in, stab em and jump out. Conceptually it's broken because it does 2 things but will only let you do one of them every 6 seconds.

making it cost more would have solved the problem.
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It's still a perfectly great power, as far as I'm concerned. Lunges shouldn't -be- high damage powers, they have another purpose. I'd be fine if it's damage was 0. The point of it is to get melee folk into range and break travel powers, and the cooldown is low enough that it still serves well for that from my perspective.

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I am enjoying it quite a bit ... pity about those that PvP and used it as a One-Key Wonder though ...

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It's still a perfectly great power, as far as I'm concerned. Lunges shouldn't -be- high damage powers, they have another purpose. I'd be fine if it's damage was 0. The point of it is to get melee folk into range and break travel powers, and the cooldown is low enough that it still serves well for that from my perspective.
but it DOESN'T let you get in AND out, which is what makes this power different than a standard lunge.
the cool down cramps this flexibility.
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but it DOESN'T let you get in AND out, which is what makes this power different than a standard lunge.
the cool down cramps this flexibility.
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I guess that's a shame, but it doesn't make it not worthwhile to take. Completely removing the reverse lunge entirely would still leave a perfectly good distance closer and travel power breaker. As is, you get all that, plus the additional option for the occasions that you need to lunge back and it isn't on cooldown. I'm not saying your complaint is completely invalid, but the question was whether the power is worth taking, and it is, as far as I'm concerned.

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Yeah, it's very much worth taking still. The kvetching about the cooldown is silly in light of Mighty Leap's 12 seconds.

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If it were possible, a cool down only for attacking would be nice or split the power into two abilities. one backflip and one lunge. Thunderbolt does something different than mighty leap and it would be still viable with only a nice rider kick. Keep the cool down and have at it with a separate power that has a 1 to 3 second cool down.

However, to see the other side of the coin, the power it self is not at fault-how you want to use it is. Since the change changed how the power acts, the playstyle should change accordingly or the power will not work for the individual. Now you have to have a choice, get out or go in. That has become a tactical ripple and its a good thing.

Feel free to shred either argument.

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Okay, I've heard that it's useless, I've heard that it's useful.. I've heard reasons why and why is shouldn't have been nerfed. Honestly, I'm kinda leaning towards not taking it at this point as (though it does let you close the distance) I think you have to spend points and rank it up to allow you to knock off travel powers and it's not like I have that many ranks to spare.. so, any alternatives?

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one of my main toons in beta had this ability, and it was one of those powers that could spam endlessly never use ANY other power! power was intended to get you close as melee, and give you time to apply a snare on the enemy to keep in range, was NEVER intended as a move to keep you in range indefinitely, and wasn't intended to replace all other attacks.

I do realize melee have a ton of issues right now, and your struggling in pvp, however i think you need to step back and think a second. Melee will get balanced to some degree and when that happens, ranged only have 1 thing going for them and thats there range! range is often a ranged characters defense, a move kept you in melee infinitely would be bad thus the change.

i am happy to see TBL balanced out and working as a gap closer and not, a spamable dps move could kill anyone with out even trying.

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It sitll gets you into melee and knocks off their travel power right? the fact that it DOES damage and knockdown is really jus tgravy, and there's no real reason to spam it, so I don't see endurance or recharge mattering that much.

hmm u are correct but 2 reasons its epic fail now...

1: sometimes atleast for me i lunge to my target and bounce right off and fly back 20 ft past where i started,
now in op it ticked me off but was no biggy as i could just lunge agin to get back to range now its a dead skill. meaning i use it if it does that flip out thing im sol and able to be kited for the next 9s.

2: knockback is does not always proc so its like a chance it will knock them back and with the problems i sadi about in 1 it makes it that much harder

i saw no use to nerf this as bad it as been like ppl said all three was just over kill......the other lunge (forgot the name of it, but its the 1 u charge and it snares.roots ur target) is useless also becuz of the cd, but i can see y they put a cd on that skill with the snare and root proc alot

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Damn, they added a timer? What's with them and timers these days? This move should NOT have a timer. Yeah, it was overpowered before, but that was because it did too much damage, not because it could be used continuously. I have no problem with them nerfing overpowered moves, but the problem is that when they do so they almost always do it the wrong way.

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Damn, they added a timer? What's with them and timers these days? This move should NOT have a timer. Yeah, it was overpowered before, but that was because it did too much damage, not because it could be used continuously. I have no problem with them nerfing overpowered moves, but the problem is that when they do so they almost always do it the wrong way.

Hey, old friend. I'm in total agreement with you!! Woot!

Yes it was definitely overpowered and there should not be a timer on it, it removes the flexibility of the power, what it should have is an endurance cost that increases the more you use it, in my opinion.

The damage is fine in my opinion but that's not really what the power is about however I don't think it should ever go below the damage of the might power.

Hehehe they are still figuring things out so I trust them to fix it I just hope they see WHY this was such a bad move on their part.

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Yes it was definitely overpowered and there should not be a timer on it, it removes the flexibility of the power, what it should have is an endurance cost that increases the more you use it, in my opinion.

That could be a good, easy fix. Give it a stacking debuff that is applied to the player that increases it's cost, with like a 3-5 second timer on each. That way, cast it once, it's cheap. Cast it twice in five seconds, the second one costs more. Use it a third time within that first five seconds, it costs even more, but wait for the first five seconds to expire before the third shot and it's back to costing the same as the second. That gives a good balance between punishing crazy-spamming while making casual reuse of it a non-issue.

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That could be a good, easy fix. Give it a stacking debuff that is applied to the player that increases it's cost, with like a 3-5 second timer on each. That way, cast it once, it's cheap. Cast it twice in five seconds, the second one costs more. Use it a third time within that first five seconds, it costs even more, but wait for the first five seconds to expire before the third shot and it's back to costing the same as the second. That gives a good balance between punishing crazy-spamming while making casual reuse of it a non-issue.

Yes! Exactly.
And it allows people who only have this attack against flyers a way to keep using it albeit at the cost of all of their endurance.