Does anyone NOT think Personal Force Field is overpowered?

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Seriously, Cryptic needs to take a look at that spell. I have one guy that doesn't use it (doesn't fit my character), and another that does use it. The one that doesn't is just fodder in PvP and the one that does is nearly unkillable.

It just seems to me that there shouldn't be any one power that lets you tank five people and not even get a scratch.

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I don't think it's OP in PvE. I have no experience with PvP. Regen just seems way better for use in PvE because it keeps your health full. I hate getting that bug where my health doesn't regen and I have to start fights with virtually no health.

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Seriously, Cryptic needs to take a look at that spell. I have one guy that doesn't use it (doesn't fit my character), and another that does use it. The one that doesn't is just fodder in PvP and the one that does is nearly unkillable.

It just seems to me that there shouldn't be any one power that lets you tank five people and not even get a scratch.

Not overpowered for PvE content at all, my character using it gets his @$$ handed to him by villains all the time.

Frankly PvP is a very small portion of this game with a very small minority of people who bother with it past the initial quest. Re-balancing the entire game just to please the few people who do bother with it will actually kill this game faster than a nuke.

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You really think PvP is a small portion of the game? Most people I know do more PvP than PvE. Plus, it will become even more popular when a lot of people hit level 40 and there isn't much else to do.

They don't have to rebalance the whole game. They just need to fix that one power. Either make it so it recharages slower, or make it so it drains your power when it's active, or make it stop few hit points worth of attack. All simple solutions.

But as it stands now, anyone in PvP who uses it gets a free pass.

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People were saying the same thing about regen, then about invulnerability, and now about PFF. If that gets nerfed, they'll complain about something else being OP until that gets nerfed, and so on, and so on. It really is impossible to balance for PvP without ruining PvE.

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You really think PvP is a small portion of the game? Most people I know do more PvP than PvE. Plus, it will become even more popular when a lot of people hit level 40 and there isn't much else to do.

They don't have to rebalance the whole game. They just need to fix that one power. Either make it so it recharages slower, or make it so it drains your power when it's active, or make it stop few hit points worth of attack. All simple solutions.

But as it stands now, anyone in PvP who uses it gets a free pass.

And every one of your "solutions" will literally destroy the power for use in the rest of the game (95% of the content).

Just because your group of friends like to PvP doesn't mean that the rest of us do.

You asked if ANYONE doesn't think the PFF was overpowered, so far in this thread it's only you.

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It certainly isn't impossible. It just takes time.

Regen and Invuln are very powerful, but they aren't even in the same playing field as PPF. Look at those three in comparison to ANY other passive power. They are all way above anything else in terms of survivability factor.

And just because people complain...it doesn't make them wrong.

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It doesn't make them right either.

The best way to do this would be if there was a PvP version of the powers and a PvE version of the powers. It's probably too late for that, though.

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I'm not advocating making it unusable. Just less overpowered. You're taking everything I say to the max and you're doing it on purpose. Just try to look at it from an objective point of view.

And seriously. If you don't PvE AND PvP then stop responding to this post. You're only looking at one side of the picture.

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Nerf defiance and lightning reflexes!

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Greyform. That may be one good solution. I hope they consider it.

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I'm not advocating making it unusable. Just less overpowered. You're taking everything I say to the max and you're doing it on purpose. Just try to look at it from an objective point of view.

And seriously. If you don't PvE AND PvP then stop responding to this post. You're only looking at one side of the picture.

Perhaps you're being reasonable, but most PvPers that come to complain on the forums are anything but. As for me, I'd enjoy PvP very much if it were balanced. As it is now, I don't see it happening. I think they tacked PvP on this game as an afterthought.

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Greyform. That post was actually to the poster who got in before you.

But you make a good point in your last post. Maybe more people would PvP if it were more balanced. I think the first step should be to find the most over powered and underpowered things and fix them.

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Honestly.. I do not think it's over powered. I have used it in low teens and at 40 during the end of beta event. In both cases I can easily die if not paying attention.

In fact I'm thinking of ditching it due to poor timer implementation.

Also.. at 40 it was only shielding around 4800-ish damage, in pvp that was enough to last through a focused alpha strike, and once it's down, your pretty much done if being focused, so no, I found it useful but far from OP

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I honestly think the first thing they need to do is make the offensive passives buff damage by the same amount that the defensive passives buff survivability. As it is now, defensive passives are all but a given to take.

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They should do what Guild Wars did; make it so that if a skill is balanced in PvE but not PvP that there are two versions of the skill, the original for PvE which switches to the modified version when in PvP.

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Vyperz. Then are these nearly unkillable people using something else with it? I can't understand how some people can take a 3 minute beating from 5 people at once and not die.

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Look. Champions is a PvE based game. Period.

PvP is a small addition tacked on for the few people who enjoy it. Basically the same as it was in City of Heroes and WoW.

The constant crying and complaining followed by the constant attempts by the devs to "balance" every ability and class to satisfy the PvP minority nearly wrecked both of those games.

Fortunately the CoH Devs finally realized the mistake and built a completely different rules system for players that are flagged PvP and now PvP changes leave the rest of that game alone.

WoW really needs to figure that out and get on the bandwagon as well because they are still nerfing the hell out of abilities because of the complaints of a vocal minority and in turn ticking off the silent majority.

If this game goes down the path of constant circular nerfs to attempt to (impossibly) balance every power around PvP then they should just save themselves the headache now and re-tool every power in the game to basically Rock-Paper-Scissors because that is ultimately what they will end up with in 4-5 years if they start down that path today.

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I honestly think the first thing they need to do is make the offensive passive buff damage by the same amount that the defensive passives buff survivability. As it is now, defensive passives are all but a given to take.

Your last sentence says it all really. If we want to be effective in PvP we pretty much MUST take one of those three defensive passives. And there are lots of others that are not used very much because they are so overshadowed by PPF, regen and invuln.

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Vyperz. Then are these nearly unkillable people using something else with it? I can't understand how some people can take a 3 minute beating from 5 people at once and not die.

It's certainly possible, PFF is a slotted passive, there are many clickable resist buffs that can be used while the shield is up.

I don't claim to know all in pvp, I'm just stating my personal experiences with PFF.

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Honestly.. I do not think it's over powered. I have used it in low teens and at 40 during the end of beta event. In both cases I can easily die if not paying attention.

In fact I'm thinking of ditching it due to poor timer implementation.

Also.. at 40 it was only shielding around 4800-ish damage, in pvp that was enough to last through a focused alpha strike, and once it's down, your pretty much done if being focused, so no, I found it useful but far from OP

This has been my experience as well.

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I agree they should have had seperate trees for PVE/PVP even if identical.

However while it seems simple to do, I suspect such a change would be massively involved, so I really doubt it is anything that is going to happen any time in the foreseeable future.

So other suggestions to help with the balancing problems it causes would be useful. I don't have any at the moment, unfortunately.

To be honest though, I have not really seen many if any examples so far where they nerfed something for PVP that should not have also been modified for PVE to some degree.

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I'm not advocating making it unusable. Just less overpowered. You're taking everything I say to the max and you're doing it on purpose. Just try to look at it from an objective point of view.

And seriously. If you don't PvE AND PvP then stop responding to this post. You're only looking at one side of the picture.

I'm responding from the viewpoint that this game was designed around; PvE, which is what the vast majority of people actually participate in.

Since your proposed "fixes" would take a perfectly balanced (for PvE) power and make it essentially crippled then yes, I feel quite justified in posting to point that out and the reasons for my opinion.

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And FYI, I HAVE in fact tried most of the defensive powers in PvP and this is MY experience.

Personal Force Field: With a High Ego and constant Blocking the character can handle huge amounts of incoming damage but really isn't able to hurt anyone in the process.

Invulnerability: Similar results to PFF but overall a weaker power in PvP.

Regeneration: With High Dex, Ego and Con a character with this power will laugh at almost anyone in PvP that tries to kill him. If he gets hurt he just Blocks for 10 seconds and recovers full heath.

Reflexes: Combined with High Dex and Acrobatics this power is literally insane in PvP as the character is avoiding most damage while bouncing off the walls.

Frankly, if any of the passives need to be tweaked for PvP, Invulnerability needs a buff.

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What we really need is a damage parser (a program that logs all of the damage and displays it in an easy to read format). Hopefully Cryptic developed one for their in-house use. I'd be shocked if they didn't because without it they'd just be guessing.

If we could get some parsed data then we wouldn't have to argue about what MIGHT be over or under powered...we could see for sure. I know there are things like blocking and travel powers that interfere with these tests. But if they are done in a controlled way, like a science experiement, where they take out all of the other veriables, then we can know for sure.

But for right now...my money is on certain defensive passives being MUCH better than other powers.

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In my opinion, PFF is probably the most balanced of the defensive passives in a PvE situation. You can take down minions/villains just fine, but anything higher has a good chance at taking a chunk out of your HP. In PvP, however, I agree that it's pretty OP. I'd rather they didn't nerf it overall than nerfing it for everything, but if they can manage to only reduce it's PvP effectiveness, I'm all for it.

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Encouraging these people to start nerfing things is a very bad idea.
We've down this path before, methinks.

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Best way would be to either modify the power to drain energy as you deplete damage so it's literally a shield charged off your energy. Or to make a PvP version of the power. I think it works well in PvP and definitely makes it less impossible to fight some baddies.

But looking at PvP, the defense powers (invul, Regen, PFF) are overpowered dramatically. They need to make these function slightly differently in PvP (take the defensive values and cut them in half and add some other negatives to it or something). That way the PvE folks can enjoy it just as well as the PvP folks.

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Seems to me the OP couldn't kill some one else using PFF and is now on a nerf campaign.

Usually people who get owned by a power claim to be using it themselves when they try to get it ruined.

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Seriously, Cryptic needs to take a look at that spell. I have one guy that doesn't use it (doesn't fit my character), and another that does use it. The one that doesn't is just fodder in PvP and the one that does is nearly unkillable.

It just seems to me that there shouldn't be any one power that lets you tank five people and not even get a scratch.

It seems OP, but what you have in defence you lack in offence.

My guy is a force user, and at first i was like 'this is awesome, im unkillable' but then i realised it takes me a while to kill in pvp.

It basically makes you a tank, had to kill but not very strong damage wise :D

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It seems OP, but what you have in defence you lack in offence.

My guy is a force user, and at first i was like 'this is awesome, im unkillable' but then i realised it takes me a while to kill in pvp.

It basically makes you a tank, had to kill but not very strong damage wise :D

^^^

This.

Exactly.

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Seems to me the OP couldn't kill some one else using PFF and is now on a nerf campaign.

Usually people who get owned by a power claim to be using it themselves when they try to get it ruined.

I even stated in my original post that I had two characters: one that used PFF and one that didn't. Please actually read the post before you make these statements.

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I even stated in my original post that I had two characters: one that used PFF and one that didn't. Please actually read the post before you make these statements.

He read that.

His claim seems to be that you were lying about actually having a character with the power in order to seem more credible in your reasons for wanting it nerfed.

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It seems OP, but what you have in defence you lack in offence.

My guy is a force user, and at first i was like 'this is awesome, im unkillable' but then i realised it takes me a while to kill in pvp.

It basically makes you a tank, had to kill but not very strong damage wise :D

Well considering you can put PFF into any build this line of thinking really doesn't hold much value

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My guy is a force user, and at first i was like 'this is awesome, im unkillable' but then i realised it takes me a while to kill in pvp.

^^^ Seconded.

All I did to counter this for a PVP build, in the last days of Beta, was add Laser Beam eyes. I had huge amounts of END/REC/EGO so I could keep it maintained just long enough to drop.... anyone. Almost anyone.

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Well considering you can put PFF into any build this line of thinking really doesn't hold much value

Since the only time the power acts in a way that will allow you to survive 4-5 people attacking (as the OP claims) is when you are constantly blocking (ie. tanking), yes it does.

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He read that.

His claim seems to be that you were lying about actually having a character with the power in order to seem more credible in your reasons for wanting it nerfed.

Any character can have any power (as the above posts stated). If I thought that having a Personal Force Field would go along with the character I had in mind then I would use it (as I did in once instance). But I do not want to be "forced" into using it even though it does not go with my character, just because I would be too weak without it.

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Well considering you can put PFF into any build this line of thinking really doesn't hold much value

It does at lower levels :D

And at higher levels people should be smart enough to know that if you focus fire on a PFF it goes down pretty quick.

I've been killed a fair few times in pvp because they singled me out because of PFF.

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Any character can have any power (as the above posts stated). If I thought that having a Personal Force Field would go along with the character I had in mind then I would use it (as I did in once instance). But I do not want to be "forced" into using it even though it does not go with my character, just because I would be too weak without it.

In my experience, Regeneration and Reflexes are just as "overpowered" in PvP as PFF, they just require a different mindset when using them.

If you plan to stand there and take no actions other than Block to defend yourself then PFF is for you. If you actually want to do more than stand there though the others actually work better in a build designed to both keep you alive as well as allowing you to quickly finish off other players.

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It does at lower levels :D

And at higher levels people should be smart enough to know that if you focus fire on a PFF it goes down pretty quick.

I've been killed a fair few times in pvp because they singled me out because of PFF.

Yeah but focus firing is a good strategy regardless of the opponents defenses.

If they are choosing to only focus fire you, then you are helping your team because it still takes time to kill you.

Which means your teammates are freed up to do their own damage.

I would also add that overall efficiency is important and dead people do 0 dps.

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Luclin: I'm not even talking about people who block. I'm talking about the people that run around killing with impunity and seem to take no damage. I've seen it far to many times now. And its time this gets fixed.

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Entropy5 = Sad Panda.

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Yes chaotic910, right now I am a Sad Panda. Please cry for me.

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Post some videos on YouTube or something to prove it's over powered. Right now, it's really just you saying it is and nothing else. Evidence is your friend.

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I don't think its OP in PvP. It's very easy to trash, especially if your team actually works together and focus fires.

I LOVE everyone taking PFF. I **** through it with my high screwed up build and then the person under it turns into butter and promptly dies.


You know what I learned today and yesterday? FLIGHT is a lot more OP than people give it credit for, especially as a melee character with no ranged attacks yet. I can't do jack to most people in arena because everyone has flight and I don't.

That doesn't mean flight is OP and needs to be changed though.

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There's a difference between a skill being a good skill and being OP, just a shame that the nerf hungry UP players can't see it.

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You really think PvP is a small portion of the game? Most people I know do more PvP than PvE. Plus, it will become even more popular when a lot of people hit level 40 and there isn't much else to do.

They don't have to rebalance the whole game. They just need to fix that one power. Either make it so it recharages slower, or make it so it drains your power when it's active, or make it stop few hit points worth of attack. All simple solutions.

But as it stands now, anyone in PvP who uses it gets a free pass.

WRONG

The only free pass is due to peoples psychology.........

They don't see damage...only the 0 1 2 2 1 3 and tiny dmg numbers. They don't know how much they are wrecking that shield. I can't count the # of times ppl force fire me a few sec then turn to a different target when they dont see my hp just auto drop.

PFF shields are easier to wreck then you think in pvp....I know from both ends.

The Defenses in this game are sooo different imo, they all interact with dmg differently. I love my regen tank especially after the nerf,. they think 'OH LOOK HES AT HALF HP SO SOON EVERYONE FIRE.'

Then mad lulz happen because consistant dmg is when regen is at its best. I just kinda chill out while my team gives it to them from behind. It'd be different if people used CC alot mroe effectively then just spamming it. So far I've noticed quite a few people using CC to maximum effect (block prevention, travel prevention) instead of jsut to keep someone still because "they want them to stand there for a second".

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Aw, I thought this thread was killed...

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You really think PvP is a small portion of the game? Most people I know do more PvP than PvE. Plus, it will become even more popular when a lot of people hit level 40 and there isn't much else to do.


You're a PvPer. I'd be quite surprised if most people you've met in Champions are PvEers, since you spend your time in PvP. Saying "most people I know" isn't really evidence of anything, you do know that right? I'm not arguing against or for your point, just pointing out a little error in your logic. =)

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Aw, I thought this thread was killed...

This thread has Rank 3 PFF you can't kill it!

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There's a difference between a skill being a good skill and being OP, just a shame that the nerf hungry UP players can't see it.

true.


learn to play your toons people....


and quit whining because others have, and are punkin' ya.



.

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This thread has Rank 3 PFF you can't kill it!


My bad...I did a field surge :(

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true.


learn to play your toons people....


and quit whining because others have, and are punkin' ya.



.

Off topic, love your avatar and sig. Nice job!

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This thread has Rank 3 PFF you can't kill it!

I lol'd.

..........

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You're a PvPer. I'd be quite surprised if most people you've met in Champions are PvEers, since you spend your time in PvP. Saying "most people I know" isn't really evidence of anything, you do know that right? I'm not arguing against or for your point, just pointing out a little error in your logic. =)

Perhaps you're right. That is indeed an error in my logic. But that doesn't change the fact that there are some major imbalances that need to be looked at. That is all that I am trying to bring to light here. Many of the posts in this thread have shown that I was incorrect in my initial statement. It isn't PPF that is overpowered: It is several of the passive defensive skills. They are currently a necessity in staying alive in PvP. It really shouldn't be this way though. They should help a lot...but not be necessary for staying alive. And the other passives should play a larger part.

I know this game is very young. But it does need a lot of balance.

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Seriously, Cryptic needs to take a look at that spell. I have one guy that doesn't use it (doesn't fit my character), and another that does use it. The one that doesn't is just fodder in PvP and the one that does is nearly unkillable.

It just seems to me that there shouldn't be any one power that lets you tank five people and not even get a scratch.

I'll be honest here...

PFF is always crazy powerful. We love PFF. It's a lusty, opinionated, nonlogical, emotive response. It's the physical reinforcement of the concept of a personal space and that's a very comforting ideal.

I'm sorry for your lots.

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I don't find it overpowered, I died several times today in PvE. NPC's can chew through it fairly fast in they concentrate enough dammage.

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true.


learn to play your toons people....


and quit whining because others have, and are punkin' ya.



.


Try playing in PvP without PFF, Regen or Invuln......

Try it in 10 matches and then come back here. See how you fare.

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Try playing in PvP without PFF, Regen or Invuln......

Try it in 10 matches and then come back here. See how you fare.

I was doing just fine just using 2gunmojo and athletics; in one match I was like 8 and 2... /shrug

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gotta love the "OP..nerf this nerf that" folks that seem to plague each MMO. Unfortunately they usually get there way...PFF is the backbone of a force build...i think its fine...

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I was doing just fine just using 2gunmojo and athletics; in one match I was like 8 and 2... /shrug

You can always do great in one match. Do well in the long term!

The sample size of "one match" will always be pathetically small. We need numbers for the "overall"...the long term. Try it again...but this time do it 10 or 20 times. If you do that you'll see what I mean.

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gotta love the "OP..nerf this nerf that" folks that seem to plague each MMO. Unfortunately they usually get there way...PFF is the backbone of a force build...i think its fine...

I would agree that it is the backbone of the "Force Build" but the problem is that this game allows people to pick any build they want. And ANYONE can pick ANY skill in the long term. Look at the number of people picking this, and the other similarly overpowered, defensive skills, and you will see the problem....

Please put more thought into the issue than a simple statement. You will see that there is, indeed, a problem with the balance in this game.

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Try playing in PvP without PFF, Regen or Invuln......

Try it in 10 matches and then come back here. See how you fare.

I'm all for nerfing PFF.....but, I use Ice Form in PvP, I did 8 matches today. Went 7/1 for wins and in those I always had the highest kills....but the most deaths. The guys with PFF on the other team had 0 deaths and a good amount of the kills. Personally I think if you have PFF you should be locked out of teleporting. When PFF drops all you have to do is teleport away, it'll recharge while you're running then come back with a full shield.

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I'm all for nerfing PFF.....but, I use Ice Form in PvP, I did 8 matches today. Went 7/1 for wins and in those I always had the highest kills....but the most deaths. The guys with PFF on the other team had 0 deaths and a good amount of the kills. Personally I think if you have PFF you should be locked out of teleporting. When PFF drops all you have to do is teleport away, it'll recharge while you're running then come back with a full shield.

That's the kind of balance that I want too. Just some amount of rational thought into the PvP balance would be nice. As it stands now...its just up to whoever is the best Min/Maxer. I WANT to love the hero that I created. And I do not want to create him/her in an artificial manner in order to have then be able to compete in PvP.

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Seriously, Cryptic needs to take a look at that spell. I have one guy that doesn't use it (doesn't fit my character), and another that does use it. The one that doesn't is just fodder in PvP and the one that does is nearly unkillable.

So normally the saying goes: "I'm rock, scissors is fine, nerf paper."

Now I'm seeing: "Scissors is fine, paper is fine, I'm rock nerf me."

Wow. Just wow.

How about....no nerfing and more buffing. Oh, better yet. How about when people PvP...defensive passives are not useable! Then all you pvp'ers will stop complaining about this or that being OP and everyone else can continue playing the game. But then you'd all whine about how you're not powerful enough and this is a superhero game blah blah blah.

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So normally the saying goes: "I'm rock, scissors is fine, nerf paper."

Now I'm seeing: "Scissors is fine, paper is fine, I'm rock nerf me."

Wow. Just wow.

How about....no nerfing and more buffing. Oh, better yet. How about when people PvP...defensive passives are not useable! Then all you pvp'ers will stop complaining about this or that being OP and everyone else can continue playing the game. But then you'd all whine about how you're not powerful enough and this is a superhero game blah blah blah.

The logic in that just isn't good. The ultimate goal is to balance everything. Now we all know that is basically unattainable, but it is still the goal.

In the end, Cryptic has to the the best they can with balancing. The current state of the game shows that they have a very long way to go (as do ALL MMO's at this stage). The goal of my original post was to point out just one of those gross imbalances.

But posts like the one quoted above just point out the ignorance in the MMO population. Balance is a constantly sought after goal that, very well may be, unattainable, but it is STILL IMPORTANT TO TRY FOR.

If you have no nerfing or no more buffing then you are just not working at any goal. That is only acceptable for a perfectly balanced game (i.e. NO GAME!)

So you're post is just a post of a person that will always say "Leave things alone...because they are perfect." But in reailty...things are FAR from perfect. So basically I am saying....WAKE UP!

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"How about balance everything?"

Hmmm. This is a comic book based game. In the comics there are characters that are better in battle than other characters. The characters that usually die are the "B" list heroes and villians. There exists something called imbalance. Without it, no one would ever lose the battles.

How about this. You get used to the fact that the toon you don't like losing with is a B list toon. Delete it. Start over. Find a better build to use in PVP if that is your life's blood. It's kinds boring in THIS game IMO anyway.

Oh and don't give us that "everyone would use the same powers" speech. this is an MMO, people won't choose PFF if it doesn't fit thier toon.

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They don't have to rebalance the whole game. They just need to fix that one power. Either make it so it recharages slower, or make it so it drains your power when it's active.

Yeah, make a Passive that's on 24/7 drain power. So you never have more then 0.

But really, it's not "that one power".
No, judging by all the endless PvP complaints, it's more then one power. It's:
-Thunderbolt Lunge
-Personal Force Field
-Heal bots
-Invulnerability
-Regen
-All versions of Block
-All Knockbacks
-Flight
-Teleport

What'd I miss?

PvPers don't want any one power fixed. They want a good portion of the games mechanics changed, so that Champion's Online mirrors whatever other MMO they just came from, because it's too time consuming to learn how to adapt to a new game.
People cry "It's impossible to kill xx! I can't beat yy!"
The game is less then a week old. Surely people have tried everything already!

There are no one-shot kills like you had in other MMO's, you guys just need to get used to that. Or move on to another game where you'll be happy and leet again.

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Find a way to beat it without runnign to the devs to do it for you!

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You really think PvP is a small portion of the game? Most people I know do more PvP than PvE. Plus, it will become even more popular when a lot of people hit level 40 and there isn't much else to do.

They don't have to rebalance the whole game. They just need to fix that one power. Either make it so it recharages slower, or make it so it drains your power when it's active, or make it stop few hit points worth of attack. All simple solutions.

But as it stands now, anyone in PvP who uses it gets a free pass.

do you really think pvp is a big portion of this game? its only in there to satisfy the pvp junkies... are no BG's are no pvp zones, is no world pvp, are even any pvp rewards? honestly i understand people want to pvp in this game... but i am going to tell you right now that ITS NOT A PVP GAME! if want to pvp go play WoW or WAR or another pvp mmo, where its balanced around fact that YOU FIGHT other players! this game is about HEROES! good guys fighting bad guys who are all AI controlled are no villians, there for pvp is a tiny tinsy little part of this game and crying for nerfs will kill a power in pve is STUPID! let me tell you my friend has PFF and he barely stays standing in any pve situation using it. Facts are facts this game is NOT a pvp game let it go...

nerfs for pvp a small portion of this game, will destroy pve abilities is bad bad bad...stop whining about damn pvp already! if want to pvp play something else! this is a pve game! not a pvp game!

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Yeah, make a Passive that's on 24/7 drain power. So you never have more then 0.

But really, it's not "that one power".
No, judging by all the endless PvP complaints, it's more then one power. It's:
-Thunderbolt Lunge
-Personal Force Field
-Heal bots
-Invulnerability
-Regen
-All versions of Block
-All Knockbacks
-Flight
-Teleport

What'd I miss?

PvPers don't want any one power fixed. They want a good portion of the games mechanics changed, so that Champion's Online mirrors whatever other MMO they just came from, because it's too time consuming to learn how to adapt to a new game.
People cry "It's impossible to kill xx! I can't beat yy!"
The game is less then a week old. Surely people have tried everything already!

There are no one-shot kills like you had in other MMO's, you guys just need to get used to that. Or move on to another game where you'll be happy and leet again.

To be honest, there is a serious issue with defensive options at the moment. PvP is basically boiling down to at this point defensive characters and countering the options of said characters. Offensive options either need to be buffed or defensive options need to be nerfed if a healthy non-defense focused metagame is to develop.

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Luclin: I'm not even talking about people who block. I'm talking about the people that run around killing with impunity and seem to take no damage. I've seen it far to many times now. And its time this gets fixed.

Then you are either :

1. Exaggerating (likely)

2. Have no idea what type of attacks people are using on the person in question.

3. Have no idea what buffs or heals the person in question is receiving (there are quite a few active defenses, self-heals, heal over time abilities and even healing items available to people in this game).

4. All of the above (most likely)

Because unless I am spamming Block, people have had no problem taking out my toon (with PFF) in PvP if they actually try to kill him, especially once I have burnt my Active defense and HoT cooldowns.

Look the freaking game has been live in *headstart* for less than two days and it's more than a bit ridiculous for people to be screaming "NERF THIS!!! NERF THAT!!!" this soon into play.

You have ZERO clue how these powers will play out once people get to 40th, get a decent selection and amount of gear (which makes a hell of a difference in survivability to any character) and practice playing so to be demanding powers be crippled for the entire game (PvE and PvP) this early on just because YOU have trouble killing some guy in a duel or arena match is frankly preposterous.

[Archived Post]

To be honest, there is a serious issue with defensive options at the moment. PvP is basically boiling down to at this point defensive characters and countering the options of said characters. Offensive options either need to be buffed or defensive options need to be nerfed if a healthy non-defense focused metagame is to develop.

OR PvP enthusiasts need to just accept that they can't just one or two shot people that are on their guard in this game like they can in most others and adapt to the idea that PvP encounters may actually take more than a few seconds each to resolve.

Just because you can't "Cheap Shot, Backstab, instant kill" in this game doesn't mean that the mechanics are broken just that the overall style of PvP encounters is meant to be more drawn out and complicated than

BLAM! You're Dead! LoL You SuxxoZ! (Teabag emote), Next victim Please...

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Try playing in PvP without PFF, Regen or Invuln......

Try it in 10 matches and then come back here. See how you fare.

WoW! Try playing without one of the passive Defense powers AVAILABLE TO EVERY CHARACTER IN THE GAME?

Gee Whiz...You'd almost think that the Devs had a plan in making them easily obtainable by EVERYONE early on in the life of each character, huh?

:rolleyes:

You might as well say "Try playing 10 matches with no attack powers or items equipped," it would be about as sensible.

If your problem all along is that you have been playing in PvP without ANY passive defenses slotted then I think I figured out just you are doing wrong.

:eek:

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Seems to me if you are playing PvP you are gonna want to make sure your character is designed with good defensive abilities like regen, pff, invulnerability of something like that....

[Archived Post]

OR PvP enthusiasts need to just accept that they can't just one or two shot people that are on their guard in this game like they can in most others and adapt to the idea that PvP encounters may actually take more than a few seconds each to resolve.

Just because you can't "Cheap Shot, Backstab, instant kill" in this game doesn't mean that the mechanics are broken just that the overall style of PvP encounters is meant to be more drawn out and complicated than

BLAM! You're Dead! LoL You SuxxoZ! (Teabag emote), Next victim Please...

Pretty much.

I just did a pvp match and i was trying to kill a Power armored guy, even with lvl 3 PFF he still one, mainly because he could outdamage me, and he had a passive shield, add in my lack of any serious DPS and i was outmatched.

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WoW! Try playing without one of the passive Defense powers AVAILABLE TO EVERY CHARACTER IN THE GAME?

Gee Whiz...You'd almost think that the Devs had a plan in making them easily obtainable by EVERYONE early on in the life of each character, huh?

:rolleyes:

You might as well say "Try playing 10 matches with no attack powers or items equipped," it would be about as sensible.

If your problem all along is that you have been playing in PvP without ANY passive defenses slotted then I think I figured out just you are doing wrong.

:eek:

Well, it's easy enough to counter passives if you have the right damage type or utility/cc power. I think some people are expecting to find a perfect build with no weakness however even if you find the most ballenced build out there eventually you'll find someone you can't defeat. The thing about RPGs is it's a easy out to blame a power or build for your own lack of ablity so that's what people do.

Optimization like everything else gets to the point that it's not only of no use but detrimental.

[Archived Post]

WoW! Try playing without one of the passive Defense powers AVAILABLE TO EVERY CHARACTER IN THE GAME?

Gee Whiz...You'd almost think that the Devs had a plan in making them easily obtainable by EVERYONE early on in the life of each character, huh?

:rolleyes:

You might as well say "Try playing 10 matches with no attack powers or items equipped," it would be about as sensible.

If your problem all along is that you have been playing in PvP without ANY passive defenses slotted then I think I figured out just you are doing wrong.

:eek:

Well to be honest i done a little of pvp like about 15 matches.. and found that yes PFF is good but not OP by ANY WAY.. i mean if everyone of the other team have it it's pretty tough yeah but found on myself that it's not unkillable.. with a focus fire of 2 people it will drop really really quick.. hell even a single one with enough alpha strikes can shred through it with little effort.
The first matches i found some guys who haven't a clue of what they were doing and i ended with like 12/0..
Then encountered a group well mixed with ice a meele and some force users.. my shield lasted really low time.
The thing i find mostly annoying is force users.. they're force blast is a big spike of damage and it knockback alot.. high damage, much knockback and high survivability. But as said high enough dps and spike damage can screw the shield very quick. I must reconsider too munitions and darkness... hell munitions hit quick and good and i was being hitted by a guys with darkness for a LOT.
The only nerf i could see here is:
1)Well talking or nerf i rather instead a buff to other definsive as well like martial arts one and lighting reflexes.
2)Knockback.. force user are now the fotm for the insane damage and the knockback.. add a resistance to KD like every other form of CC and it will be more fine.. there's sometime that i get being knocked again and again and the only thing that can help against knock is superstat strenght. And Concussor Beam.. i find really really awful being pulled away or against a wall without the possibility to do something

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It's funny how balanced PFF is for PvE, but I do somewhat agree, it is a bit strong in PvP. I know I hate dueling other people using PFF because it's very boring. It's not AS bad in arenas, but it does seem like one of the better options to take if you want a character for pvp. Tbh the pvp in this game needs some serious looking into in terms of balance.

The truth is there are just some abilities that are obviously better than others in a pvp environment. I'm not calling for any pve nerfs, but as others have mentioned, a seprate version of certain powers for pvp would be a great solution if possible. If not possible whatever, I'll just continue avoiding pvp in this game, though I think good pvp during endgame would be a serious boost in content for this game, but whatever.

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If you are level 31 and everyone on the other team is 40 and they all ignore your teammates and just follow you around and kill you, you are easy to beat.

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I'm actually pretty surprised in the number of people who have called in a difference between PvE and PvE powers. At first I did not consider this solution. But, as I read on, I considered it more, and now I actually agree that it may be the solution to the problem.

And for those who think there is no problem: please read the previous pages.

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It's funny how balanced PFF is for PvE, but I do somewhat agree, it is a bit strong in PvP. I know I hate dueling other people using PFF because it's very boring. It's not AS bad in arenas, but it does seem like one of the better options to take if you want a character for pvp. Tbh the pvp in this game needs some serious looking into in terms of balance.

The truth is there are just some abilities that are obviously better than others in a pvp environment. I'm not calling for any pve nerfs, but as others have mentioned, a seprate version of certain powers for pvp would be a great solution if possible. If not possible whatever, I'll just continue avoiding pvp in this game, though I think good pvp during endgame would be a serious boost in content for this game, but whatever.

It's because of the math of it all mostly, however, PFF still has damage types it's strong agianst and weak agianst. You (the OP mostly) should go see how big of a difference there is and then come back with some data we can logically evaluate. If the range between weak agianst and strong agianst is less than 25% then i'd say there's a serious problem in the mechanics.

Example:

If I do a base 100 damage and PFF is strong agianst the damage type it should, at T1, let 75 damage through (I have no idea how PFF works in Champions PnP) then be further reduced by items.

If it's weak agianst it then it should let x damage through which could be reduced, as well, by items. In this case 75 ≤ X ≤ 100.

Basically even if a PFF is weak agianst a damage type it should still offer some, even if it's 1%, protection.

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.


you guys make me laugh.



crying that it's overpowered because that other guy made a much more efficient toon than you.....more than likely.


an example: I was just in the arena, I had finally gotten my munitions build the way I want it so to speak....lots of DEX and EGO. with items for even more boost..... took shotgun...and slotted rank 2 so far....also killer instinct..also have Breaching round and accelerated metabolism activated.....I was womping because I planned the build......"...and good CON to survive a punch with tele shield too.

.and someone in the arena said " I can believe they havent fixed the f*%&$#ing shotgun spam exploit yet"

..lol....because I was kickin and handing Arse hats......and I have my END set just right to be able to regenerate at a steady pace by only having to 'energy build' a few shots at a time.


.... lol...ya my shotgun is way tough...but I built it that way...its not standard power.


.....its not the power...it is how I built it.....its a combination of stats, items, power, and ranks..

so as your crying....do you actually know how the toon is built?



some of you just might not get it.


"the end."


see you in the arena :)


.

[Archived Post]

.


you guys make me laugh.



crying that it's overpowered because that other guy made a much more efficient toon than you.....more than likely.


an example: I was just in the arena, I had finally gotten my munitions build the way I want it so to speak....lots of DEX and EGO. with items for even more boost..... took shotgun...and slotted rank 2 so far....also killer instinct..also have Breaching round and accelerated metabolism activated.....I was womping because I planned the build......"...and good CON to survive a punch with tele shield too.

.and someone in the arena said " I can believe they havent fixed the shotgun spam yet ..lol....becasue Iwas kickin and handing Arse hats.




.... lol...ya my shotgun is way tough...but I built it that way...its not standard power.


.....its not the power...it is how I built it.....its a combination of stats, items, power, and ranks..



some of you just dont get it do you?


"the end."


see you in the arena :)


.

Forget it. It's over. I no longer care. Posts like this make me no longer care about the state of this game....


Let freedom reign....and anarchy rule!!!!!

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Forget it. It's over. I no longer care. Posts like this make me no longer care about the state of this game....


Let freedom reign....and anarchy rule!!!!!

it's not anarchy....


it's "not crying" because you cant understand your build.


.

[Archived Post]

To the OP....No, it's not overpowered. It's a power BTW, not a "spell".

Wait till you PvP endgame before spewing nonsense. Balance Defensive Passives for Rank 1, 2 ,3 tier PVP indeed. Please, just stop.

You have NO idea how powerful you will be at level 40.

PFF runs out of juice. simple, plain, easy. It absorbs a bit of damage each hit, then is gone completely till you either give it time to regen, or pop Surge which fills it back up just a bit. You must stack the proper stats to even make it effective.

YES PEOPLE! YOU MUST TAKE A DEFENSIVE PASSIVE. Get used to it. Think of it like armor if you must, but please stop crying for nerfs. If you're getting beat by a Defensive Passive then you need to learn to play. Period.

[Archived Post]

.....
Wait till you PvP endgame before spewing nonsense. Balance Defensive Passives for Rank 1, 2 ,3 tier PVP indeed. Please, just stop.

You have NO idea how powerful you will be at level 40.

PFF runs out of juice. simple, plain, easy. It absorbs a bit of damage each hit, then is gone completely till you either give it time to regen, or pop Surge which fills it back up just a bit. You must stack the proper stats to even make it effective.

YES PEOPLE! YOU MUST TAKE A DEFENSIVE PASSIVE. Get used to it. Think of it like armor if you must, but please stop crying for nerfs. If you're getting beat by a Defensive Passive then you need to learn to play. Period.

agreed.

all powers are phenomenal at higher ranks and advantages.

I may have a high damage and knockback....but I sacrificed hold resistance, movement, and total hit points for it.....
I was held 'Alot !' ... but If I got the first shot in.....goodnight.

I built it to kill fast...


some build to stay alive......with powers, ranks, advantages, items...etc.


and some do it well :)

its not a problem....the problem is how to compendsate to kill these guys...lol...get em !!!!!!


.

[Archived Post]

Forget it. It's over. I no longer care. Posts like this make me no longer care about the state of this game....


Let freedom reign....and anarchy rule!!!!!

Way to go all emo...

Look, PFF could be too powerful thats not implausable, however, you're going to need numbers and data or a DEVPOST to back you even have a chance of anyone paying you attention seriously.

[Archived Post]

PFF only seems over powered because people are dueling over short periods of time. In a longer period of time, in an engagement with multiple opponents, or as the game-play advances PFF becomes quite lack-laster. For PvE, PFF is really only good for support classes. It would have major issues for anybody who's supposed to take damage.

My advice for the OP, don't ask for nerfs until a) you've reached end game or b) you've had detailed experience with the thing you're nerfing.

[Archived Post]

it's not anarchy....


it's "not crying" because you cant understand your build.


.

I love you...in a Champion way....

[Archived Post]

PFF only seems over powered because people are dueling over short periods of time. In a longer period of time, in an engagement with multiple opponents, or as the game-play advances PFF becomes quite lack-laster. For PvE, PFF is really only good for support classes. It would have major issues for anybody who's supposed to take damage.

My advice for the OP, don't ask for nerfs until a) you've reached end game or b) you've had detailed experience with the thing you're nerfing.

I personally like using combat friendly travel powers and offensive passives, why play the numbers game?

[Archived Post]

I personally like using combat friendly travel powers and offensive passives, why play the numbers game?

I love this too....why worry?

[Archived Post]

I have made this toon three times ( or more with the wipes Ive made in beta ...lol.)

Clsoed beta, open beta, and now.


Closed beta I though my toon was a big hero cause I could take on a mob a level or two above me :).......until I tried PvP.......I could rarely get a kill......seriously...I was gimp in offense and defence......and wondered why? I maybe got one kill in per arena on average....it was frustrating to say the least.


Open beta I learned a little more about builds, items, stats, etc....so I kinda figured it out......but still didnt have the survivability of others.....I then learned that a slotted defensive was the way to go.......that made all the difference in the world.....didnt matter which one...as long as you build it correctly.

then headstart came, and I used "Champions Builder" to help me plan.....and I think I may have figured it out to a satisfactory level. I got 6 kills and no deaths on my last arena......but I usually average 4 to 2 prolly.....not too bad.

I survive long enough to have fun......(except for those dang holds !)....lol.

and I can learn more about how my def and off is actually working...cause Im living a little longer.


it's fun to learn...and the powers can be your friend, if you take the time to tweak them.


;)

.

[Archived Post]

Alot of complaints seem to also be "I dueled..." as if expecting the game to be balanced 1v1.
It's not and never will be. If you want to balance for 1v1, you end up with ******** syndrome, where class balance is changed, tweaked, buffed, nerfed, and rebuffed every other week.

And then you have the "Our whole team..." which in actuality means "Me and one other guy".. because if it was really your whole team, you'd kill them no matter what passives and blocks and heals they use. I mean, unless your whole team is using their energy builders for dps. /chuckle

[Archived Post]

The only issue is that PVP is all about killing people which makes some builds very weak competitors.

[Archived Post]

Can't believe some of the stuff I'm reading. They're called 'defensive' powers for a reason...its suppose to be hard to kill people when their using them. People need to get use to the fact that PvP battles in CO don't consist of ganking someone in 5 seconds before they have time to react. You have to stay on your opponent and work them down.

SInce this game doesn't have any true 'classes' it will be impossible to balance. Could you imagine them trying to balance every possible combination of builds in the game? The only way they can do that is if they limit us to speccing in one tree; and who wants that?

Think of it like this. In the comics every super hero isn't created equal. The more powerful ones need a team to take them down. Same thing here. When I created a character I make the spec that I think is fun to play and could care less how OP someone else is.

[Archived Post]

The only issue is that PVP is all about killing people which makes some builds very weak competitors.

AND that people sometimes don't realize that their powers or defenses will act or do different things to a player....instead of a mob.

[Archived Post]

I think the best route would be for Cryptic to take the route Guild Wars did, and make a PvE and a PvP version of certain powers.

For instance making PFF absorb less in PvP than it does in PvE.


Regeneration is another one. It made my character virtually indestructible in PvP. I went AFK and had someone attacking me the whole time, and was still near full HP when I came back.

Hell, I had three of the enemy team wailing on me at once and I never even came close to dying.

[Archived Post]

I think the best route would be for Cryptic to take the route Guild Wars did, and make a PvE and a PvP version of certain powers.

For instance making PFF absorb less in PvP than it does in PvE....

so the hero you made named the "Human Carpice" that's super power is the ability to withstand nearly anything.....would be as tough as an earthworm in PvP.....


...poor guy.

:rolleyes:


.

[Archived Post]

so the hero you made named the "Human Carpice" that's super power is the ability to withstand nearly anything.....would be as tough as an earthworm in PvP.....


...poor guy.

:rolleyes:


.

I don't know what that means.

[Archived Post]

AND that people sometimes don't realize that their powers or defenses will act or do different things to a player....instead of a mob.

It's a lot like the "I'm melee and I'm getting my butt kicked in PvP" argument... not everyone gets the high level education of tactics and strat's that some of us do and this isn't offical so we can't just pull rank. Best you can do is keep saying the why and the how over and over agian and hope someone gets it.

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I don't know what that means.

it was just a funny thought I had......never mind.


didnt mean anything :)


.

[Archived Post]

It's a lot like the "I'm melee and I'm getting my butt kicked in PvP" argument... not everyone gets the high level education of tactics and strat's that some of us do and this isn't offical so we can't just pull rank. Best you can do is keep saying the why and the how over and over agian and hope someone gets it.

No...but thanks for being wrong again....

It's like me...i don't PvP here a lot cause it isn't really a part of the game. But when I did I said "WHA!!!". Cause my powers met their defenses. Not mob defenses...but a players.

you get it....now?

[Archived Post]

it was just a funny thought I had......never mind.


didnt mean anything :)


.

I lol'd though

[Archived Post]

if I can add another point.

I may have built this recent toon for PvP, and he survives in PvE very well too.......( mostly for the PvE game...but I wanted to spend a lot of time in the arena too ).

but !......


I also have other toons...that I probably will NOT bring into PvP. I created them for the story, and am going to play them that way....... for example I am making a little fire hero that I am going to keep straright fire powered.....not that fire is underpowered...but that I want to see if I can play to the endgame with this certain type of build.....its how I will build it....It could be a different build in order to work in PvP...but I dont want to.

lots of offensive fire power....but not real good defensively...until later in life....and I want to marginally RP it..and team PvE......so, I will be staying out of the arena with that one....but that's OK.....I have the one toon that I learned to play PvP with...and this fire one for fun back end support for a team....

and that will be enough for now....blah blah blah.

CO has a lot to offer.....it's not just PvP or PvE ( its both...or it doesnt have to be...)....its what you want, when you want...and that's why I like it.

.

[Archived Post]

No...but thanks for being wrong again....

It's like me...i don't PvP here a lot cause it isn't really a part of the game. But when I did I said "WHA!!!". Cause my powers met their defenses. Not mob defenses...but a players.

you get it....now?

Oh keyboard cat, you got me agian! You're so crazy.

[Archived Post]

Oh keyboard cat, you got me agian! You're so crazy.

you so should just tell me in burgers, ice cream and cookies....all I understand....

[Archived Post]

PFF is the best alpha damage absorber. Does it make it OP? No.

I ran an ego blades character in beta and during the level 40 bump I dueled a Might/PFF character with strength and endurance as his super stats.

I literally could not damage him for the opening 20 seconds or so as his PFF and then field surge held up. Then I was abel to start dropping his hp at a decent rate, but then he would pop nanobot swarm or a heal and by the time he was almost dead again his fiels surge would be good to go. We went around 50/50 for the first 5 fights.

Then I got smart and triple stacked the ego blade breach debuff on him at the start of the match and dropped some gadget sentries and ego annihilation spammed him and his defenses went down fast enough that by the time his instant defense was on cd after field surge was down I had time to kill him. I won the next 4 in a row.

You have to burst hard and consistently in the beginning and you need to keep it going. Then they will go down.

A person using PFF and Field Surge with End Super Stat and some click instant defensives or heals can be extremely hard to kill.

So can an Invulnerability user with resurgence or Lightning Reflexes with mindful reinforcement.

Anyone using a defensive passive that knows what they are doing can be really hard to kill.

Saying PFF is OP is downright stupid imo.

[Archived Post]

you so should just tell me in burgers, ice cream and cookies....all I understand....

Don't get mad, don't be mean, keyboard cat.

[Archived Post]

Don't get mad, don't be mean, keyboard cat.

I wasn't...just wanted food

;)

[Archived Post]

PFF is the best alpha damage absorber. Does it make it OP? No.

I ran an ego blades character in beta and during the level 40 bump I dueled a Might/PFF character with strength and endurance as his super stats.

Not really the best way to use PFF. So it is not surprising he fell apart fairly quickly.

[Archived Post]

Apparently I'm not using it correctly because in PvP I'm just getting my butt kicked.

[Archived Post]

Stop Crying About Things Being Op If Its That Op In Your Opinion Then Use It Appearently Your Build Doesnt Have Strong Enough Moves To Get Through It But Ive Fought People That Can So Stop Crying About Pff Learn To Play The Game Dont Expect The Game To Change Cause You Cant Figure Out How To Get Around Certain Moves If You Study The Moves You Will Find Out How To Get Around It

[Archived Post]

NOT...a PvP game...so why the 12 pages again?

[Archived Post]

PFF can be very strong in PVP (Hush Gestan...there's pvp in game from level 1, there's quests for it, there's TONS of rewards..it's just as vital to play as PVE)

However you have to know what you're doing. Stacking ego and end for both the field's initial health AND its regen rate are critical. Getting Field Surge and knowing when to use it is as well. As there's not clear indication of when the fiekd's health is depleted, you really have to learn to time your encounter. Use CC, or even good old-fashion running away to give yourself room to regen the shield back up.

Conversely, when used by someone that knows how, you are very formidable in pvp. Although frankly I'd considered regen to be much more annoying, especially when you find someone that knows how to use resurgance properly.

[Archived Post]

PFF can be very strong in PVP (Hush Gestan...there's pvp in game from level 1, there's quests for it, there's TONS of rewards..it's just as vital to play as PVE)

However you have to know what you're doing. Stacking ego and end for both the field's initial health AND its regen rate are critical. Getting Field Surge and knowing when to use it is as well. As there's not clear indication of when the fiekd's health is depleted, you really have to learn to time your encounter. Use CC, or even good old-fashion running away to give yourself room to regen the shield back up.

Conversely, when used by someone that knows how, you are very formidable in pvp. Although frankly I'd considered regen to be much more annoying, especially when you find someone that knows how to use resurgance properly.

lol...I like how you said that...so I opt out here....

[Archived Post]

PFF is SORT of a nuisance in pvp.... but this is arguable.... I use PFF on a character focused mainly on ice. I COULD use Ice Form and take medbots or something and gain an extra ~30% damage and the nifty ability to chill pretty much everything that looks at me... but... at lower levels which one do YOU think is more important?.... I'd love to be able to respec it once I hit ~35 but right about now it's my only choice.

Having done some extensive testing in Beta.... I'd say PFF is the more important one especially because duels tend to last a while when you're going against someone who built their character like a brick wall. Ofcourse I crumbled their wall in seconds. I predict this game will become focused on spike builds. Ofcourse I can't predict the present.

[Archived Post]

PFF is SORT of a nuisance in pvp.... but this is arguable.... I use PFF on a character focused mainly on ice. I COULD use Ice Form and take medbots or something and gain an extra ~30% damage and the nifty ability to chill pretty much everything that looks at me... but... at lower levels which one do YOU think is more important?.... I'd love to be able to respec it once I hit ~35 but right about now it's my only choice.

Having done some extensive testing in Beta.... I'd say PFF is the more important one especially because duels tend to last a while when you're going against someone who built their character like a brick wall. Ofcourse I crumbled their wall in seconds. I predict this game will become focused on spike builds. Ofcourse I can't predict the present.

Everything I've seen in beta tells me you're right. Def passives seem stupidly OP at the level 10 and 20 brackets, but as you get higher you realize that person is gimping their damage to become a shield. Even if you have a hard time killing them, ignore them as irrelevant and murdelate the guy healing, or the ones that are actually doing damage.

And in a 1 on 1 situation..you'll be able to burst past their defenses in no time as you get higher.

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Everything I've seen in beta tells me you're right. Def passives seem stupidly OP at the level 10 and 20 brackets, but as you get higher you realize that person is gimping their damage to become a shield. Even if you have a hard time killing them, ignore them as irrelevant and murdelate the guy healing, or the ones that are actually doing damage.

And in a 1 on 1 situation..you'll be able to burst past their defenses in no time as you get higher.

hah, you're in for some surprise faces.

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If you think PFF is overpowered then you basically think all defensive slotted powers are overpowered. They all have a specific strength and weakness to them. PFF is stronger at the start, Regen is stronger the more you get your butt kicked, and Invuln is pretty much mid-line, working the whole time. I don't see a problem with that. There are bigger things to cause PvP issues than slotting a defensive power, namely someone holding down block forever. This + Regen = unkillable. Oh, and offensive slotted powers being pretty useless. That too.

[Archived Post]

If you think PFF is overpowered then you basically think all defensive slotted powers are overpowered. They all have a specific strength and weakness to them. PFF is stronger at the start, Regen is stronger the more you get your butt kicked, and Invuln is pretty much mid-line, working the whole time. I don't see a problem with that. There are bigger things to cause PvP issues than slotting a defensive power, namely someone holding down block forever. This + Regen = unkillable. Oh, and offensive slotted powers being pretty useless. That too.

They're invincable but they're also worthless.

Sounds fair to me.

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Try playing in PvP without PFF, Regen or Invuln......

Try it in 10 matches and then come back here. See how you fare.

So you want to PvP, but not min/max... k

[Archived Post]

My pff characters are getting hosed in PVE. Thats why im on the forums right now looking up other Defensive Passive.

I dont think its over powered at all.

Now, PVP is a different story if you are rollin without a Defensive Passive. I think PVP is very painfull. But I dont think that has anything to do with PFF.

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I use PFF and all I can say is that I hope that the bad guy falls before my PFF does cause when that force field runs out of gas, my HPs drop like a rock! :(

PFF is all about up front protection. When that's gone, so are you. :p

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When dedicating lots of resources to it, PFF can very strong.

However that requires you to dedicate a lot of resources to it, so it is a trade off, and a reasonable one at that.

On the other hand if you are a Fire and Ice Ninja who picks up PFF yeah, it won't be that great for you and that is fine.

I think people are confusing things. PFF and related skills can perform a pretty good defensive combination, however it requires a significant investment in skills, talents and advantages. So the result of that SHOULD be good.

If you just throw PFF up there to go with your Dual Blades and Pyro, well it is not going to be awe inspiring and it shouldn't be.

If you can document where people are using Rank 1 PFF by itself without any other related force abilities and not being killed, past level 10, then please document it.

With this game being new people don't realize that there are a lot of ways to skin a cat, and a lot of the information we are sharing is being corrected and adjusted as we learn more.

Single unadjusted skills should not be super powerful on their own. That is why something like Thundering Lunge needed to be adjusted. You just take that one skill and could go to town. You did not make a significant investment to make it super powerful.

If on the other hand you proceed down a path where it takes 3 or 4 separate powers, a dedication of stats, as well as the use of many levels of advantages, then you should be able to see a superior outcome. As you devoted the resources to get it.

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PFF isn't that powerful. It just seems ridiculous because of the ping ping ping effect, just like Invuln can seem ridiculous until you figure out the ping ping ping problem.

The only defensive passive that's really broken is Regen in tier 1 and 2 pvp. In those matches you really can sit there and block their whole team and still gain HP. I've seen it, I've done it. (A more likely scenario is 3 guys, but still.)

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PFF is for P******.

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I have it , and in pve i still manage to die faster then my invul char or my regen char.

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People were saying the same thing about regen, then about invulnerability, and now about PFF. If that gets nerfed, they'll complain about something else being OP until that gets nerfed, and so on, and so on. It really is impossible to balance for PvP without ruining PvE.


Not just those, Thunderbolt Lunge (the only power in the martial arts that made them viable) was super double nerfed. Although it's true that other people would pick up the power too not just Martial Artists, and it was overpowered, it sort of killed the one move that was good for that school (I wish they buffed the stuff that needed buffing at the same time). Anyway, they definitely are listening to people whining about what needs nerfs, because a number of things are getting hit with them.

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I'm sure the Devs are observing who is picking what power, the same way another Crafty game's devs observe who is picking what class and spec.

If a large number of people are picking any power, whether it be PFF or another, they'll look at why and what impact it has on gameplay overall.


In other words - Game hasn't even started yet, relax and have fun :)

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I felt silly overpowered in the one PvP match I did using PFF. 10-1 compared to like 0-13 when I used an offensive passive.

[Archived Post]

^defense passives are just better in tier 1 and tier 2.

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I felt silly overpowered in the one PvP match I did using PFF. 10-1 compared to like 0-13 when I used an offensive passive.

So... You felt overpowered doing PvP wearing armor (slotting a defensive) vs doing PvP with a big 'kick-me' sign over your name (because the first time someone notices that they easily damage you, you became target #1)?

How are those two situations comparable?

Seriously, if I do PvP and I notice someone is easily injured (read: they aren't slotting a defensive passive) I tell the rest of my team and suddenly they become the punching bag for the rest of the match to the exclusion of the entire other team. (Well, at least if I am doing UTC. My personal secret while doing BASH.)

Personally, I don't think PFF is over-powered. I've killed people using it in PvP and I've been killed while using it in PvP.

The thing is, if you are using PFF and people shoot you a few times and don't notice your health dropping, they are probably moving to a new target instead (if one is available) since they want a kill quickly and not a drawn out fight. The survivabilty in PvP of PFF is as much psychological from that as it is the power itself.

But if they stick on you for a bit and just burn your PFF down you die like a dog, very very quickly after the PFF is gone (well, there is Field Surge too but I think they've changed FS since from the power text it doesn't heal PFF to full but rather just repairs some of it).

[Archived Post]

So... You felt overpowered doing PvP wearing armor (slotting a defensive) vs doing PvP with a big 'kick-me' sign over your name (because the first time someone notices that they easily damage you, you became target #1)?

How are those two situations comparable?

Seriously, if I do PvP and I notice someone is easily injured (read: they aren't slotting a defensive passive) I tell the rest of my team and suddenly they become the punching bag for the rest of the match to the exclusion of the entire other team. (Well, at least if I am doing UTC. My personal secret while doing BASH.)

Personally, I don't think PFF is over-powered. I've killed people using it in PvP and I've been killed while using it in PvP.

The thing is, if you are using PFF and people shoot you a few times and don't notice your health dropping, they are probably moving to a new target instead (if one is available) since they want a kill quickly and not a drawn out fight. The survivabilty in PvP of PFF is as much psychological from that as it is the power itself.

But if they stick on you for a bit and just burn your PFF down you die like a dog, very very quickly after the PFF is gone (well, there is Field Surge too but I think they've changed FS since from the power text it doesn't heal PFF to full but rather just repairs some of it).

Woah woah, simmer down there champ. I just gave a one instance anecdotal story from meaningless tier 1 pvp. Simmer.

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I hope that's a joke. Because they both suck ass compared to Regen/PFF and even Invuln.

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Stop Crying About Things Being Op If Its That Op In Your Opinion Then Use It Appearently Your Build Doesnt Have Strong Enough Moves To Get Through It But Ive Fought People That Can So Stop Crying About Pff Learn To Play The Game Dont Expect The Game To Change Cause You Cant Figure Out How To Get Around Certain Moves If You Study The Moves You Will Find Out How To Get Around It
I'm just curious, did anyone actually read ^ that post?


The all caps first letters and lack of any sort of punctuation made me skip it.

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pff is a little overpowered now. in fact it always was, but not enough people used it and figured out how to abuse it until recently. People who don't think it is either don't know how to use it or just don't want their power nerfed.

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do you really think pvp is a big portion of this game? its only in there to satisfy the pvp junkies... are no BG's are no pvp zones, is no world pvp, are even any pvp rewards? honestly i understand people want to pvp in this game... but i am going to tell you right now that ITS NOT A PVP GAME! if want to pvp go play WoW or WAR or another pvp mmo, where its balanced around fact that YOU FIGHT other players! this game is about HEROES! good guys fighting bad guys who are all AI controlled are no villians, there for pvp is a tiny tinsy little part of this game and crying for nerfs will kill a power in pve is STUPID! let me tell you my friend has PFF and he barely stays standing in any pve situation using it. Facts are facts this game is NOT a pvp game let it go...

nerfs for pvp a small portion of this game, will destroy pve abilities is bad bad bad...stop whining about damn pvp already! if want to pvp play something else! this is a pve game! not a pvp game!


This is a horrible community.

Just for the record, yes there's a PvP zone and there's PvP rewards. What's amusing is that individuals whom seem to be terribly miss-informed didn't even hesitate one bit to make up BS claims and will use CAP LOCKS to help justify their point. Champions Online will be releasing with build in PvP. So the most likely conclusion is this,

Champions Online is both a PvE and PvP oriented game.

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My questions is: what stops you from taking BOTH your favorite offensive slotter AND some kind of defensive one? huh? The all time rule of PVP has, is and always will be - FLEXIBILITY. No kind of one trick pony, no matter how powerful, will ever work in every situation and setup. It is to you, the player, to appropriately choose and time your available tools and gimmicks.

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I wish we could nerf all of the people who want things nerfed. Lets have everything EXACTLY the same...that'll be fun...

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After playing a Hero to lvl17 who is using PFF, I would have to say it's not overpowered. I have played a couple of PVP and I was not invulnerable using it. In fact once the PFF goes down, so does my Hero and rather quickly. If I'm not paying close attention to my health bar and hit a PFF consumable device as soon as I see my health start to drop...then it's too late and I'm dead. Now..that's still with my primary build and I've not yet switched to Avenger or other builds yet.

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My 2 cents...

PFF is not Overpowered.

It's great for eating alpha strikes.... then it wears thin and the health bar starts going down.

Against a single lone mob - yes, it's fine. Against 3, I have to use field surge to stay safe. If one is a villian, or I'm going against 4, I'm hoping one of the drops a green pill, otherwise it's pretty close.

I'm only 15th. It seemed awesome when I first made it rank 2, then it couldn't keep pace with the mobs. So I picked up field surge - again it seemed awesome.... now it's running thin again.

Definitely not overpowered.

I'm used to super hero games where I can take on an increasing number of mobs as I get higher level. I'm hoping in this game, there will be a similiar "feeling super" experience. I'm only 15, but doing three at once is tough. I'm wondering if the entire game is balanced around "thou shalt be able to do three mobs at once, never ten at a time" . Hope not... I liked being able to tackle 10 at once (as a close fight) in CoH (actually, the "magic fun number" for me is 6, 10 is pretty much max, then my poor system slows to a crawl.... even if it didn't, more than ten would be VERY challenging to track !!).

So- if anything, it seems a bit underpowered, but that may be only because of my level. I'm not going to judge it as "underpowered" at 15th level, let's see how it performs at 24th or 25th.

PvP.... well, personally I think they should have powers behave differently in PvP areas (or matches) than PvE. I have friends that enjoy the occasional duel... but if PvP disappeared, they would still play their games. If PvE got nerfed, they wouldn't. (I'm not against it - just keep it out of my way while I enjoy PvE. MMORPG history has shown you can't balance both, and balancing at the cost of PvE will cost more players than balancing for PvP. And once enough players from PvE disappear, the PvP'ers lose interest too - lack of other players kills PvP fastest).

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I would never get ForceField on my Tank/might build.

Forcefield would be down when Im half through the fight - leaving me with nothing.

Forcefields are good for either the shooter types, that plan on near one-shoting the critters or on the control types, that just need enough time to get everyone locked down.

That being said, the forcepool is awsome. :)

[Archived Post]

Another vote for PFF not being overpowered. And no, I don't use PFF, I use Regen. I did try PFF in Open Beta, and it was a nice damage buffer against the big bosses. But in the long run, I think Regen is better for my survival rate.

[Archived Post]

.............The thing is, if you are using PFF and people shoot you a few times and don't notice your health dropping, they are probably moving to a new target instead (if one is available) since they want a kill quickly and not a drawn out fight. The survivabilty in PvP of PFF is as much psychological from that as it is the power itself.........

this statement is the clincher.....and definitely say's it all.


so much that.......

....the nerf-sayers are moving on to another target to QQ, because they dont see this argument being damaged quickly.


....

:rolleyes:

.

[Archived Post]

Another vote for leave well enough alone, at 19 I get my rear handed to me regularly by a villain or group of mobs if I'm not watching my health bar. Yes field surge helps but once you refresh your field and it goes down again you're done. If it were reduced players that currently use it in PvE would be in a bad way.

[Archived Post]

Not overpowered for PvE content at all, my character using it gets his @$$ handed to him by villains all the time.

Frankly PvP is a very small portion of this game with a very small minority of people who bother with it past the initial quest. Re-balancing the entire game just to please the few people who do bother with it will actually kill this game faster than a nuke.
You dont have to rebalance it for the whole game, just the PVP aspect of it needs twiking.

[Archived Post]

Another vote for PFF not being overpowered. And no, I don't use PFF, I use Regen. I did try PFF in Open Beta, and it was a nice damage buffer against the big bosses. But in the long run, I think Regen is better for my survival rate.

What skill does Regen? Super Natural passive? mmm

[Archived Post]

You really think PvP is a small portion of the game? Most people I know do more PvP than PvE.

Exactly. Most people you know. People with whom you PvP and play the game with. They like the same things you do. That doesn't mean they're a representative sample of the entire game's population.

[Archived Post]

Really most points are nill until you consider max level. You can't expect all powers to be perfectly tooled and balanced at all levels. Ideally, the powers should even out at 40. As I'm not max level, it has yet to be seen.

As for PVP being minor content, are you mental?!?!

Generally in a MMO the division of pvPers and pvErs are very very close. That's because the two trains of thought are:

"Man, im so awesome. I want to hit max level and PWN face!"

"Man, this is so awesome. I want to hit max level and kill some bosses!"

Cryptic has put in alot of content for PVP. To say it's a afterthought is unwise at best. This game has more PVP content than WoW when it launched, and now PVP is half of WoW's endgame.

[Archived Post]

I dont like the idea of developers nerfing skills just becuase they are overpowered in PVP there is way more content for PVE. They should just change how the skills affect other players while in PVP and leave the PVE side of it alone. Period.

[Archived Post]

no, PFF is not powerful at all. its very weak compared to invuln or regen.



regen always works, invuln always works.

the second you hit your damage cap with PFF its useless, you will not regen health and if you are getting damaged heavy, you will die fast.

PFF just like invuln requires your entire character to be built around the concept of that innate defense always being active.

its not OP if your entire character is built around it or built to support it.

i can guarantee you anyone with PFF could easily be downed by someone with ice blaster tree in a matter of seconds, now THAT is op and needs to be fixed.

[Archived Post]

Cryptic has put in alot of content for PVP. To say it's a afterthought is unwise at best. This game has more PVP content than WoW when it launched, and now PVP is half of WoW's endgame.

Comparing WoW PvP to CO PvP is a bit silly.

When WoW came out it promised world PvP (which flopped badly), had PvP Servers and had no real MMO competition coming out... let alone PvP-centric competition.

CO is providing essentially scenarios and duels. These two PvP options do not affect the outside world in any meaningful way besides providing XP and gear. There are no XPing zones that are PvP enabled. CO also has as competition **** which is just as new and shiny as CO but is built around the idea of PvP. Given the competition, 3 scenarios is not a lot of content. WAR had over 3 times that in end game on release and as many in each of the 3 tiers that precede end game.

I'd argue that anyone who's really serious about PvP is playing **** beta as we speak. I'd suggest that anyone that expects PvP-in-a-can to be the defining crown and glory of CO are visiting a river in Egypt.

[Archived Post]

no, PFF is not powerful at all. its very weak compared to invuln or regen.



regen always works, invuln always works.

the second you hit your damage cap with PFF its useless, you will not regen health and if you are getting damaged heavy, you will die fast.


This is a bit too harsh really. PFF always works, but the curve it works on is about 99%(It doesn't actually stop everything but the amount it lets through is trivial) for the first 2-3k of damaage and maybe 10% afterwards (depending on your ego i.e. rate of recharge).

By contrast Invuln works at about 35% constantly. Come rain, hail or shine, 35%. The coming of the apocalypse? 35%. Regen is harder to quanitify but it's probably much the same.

The question you have to ask yourself is, is 35% more than 2-3k. If so invuln is where you need to be. if not then you're going to get more bang for your buck with PFF.

Is PFF overpowered? If anything i'd argue it's probably a little underpowered. Another possibility is that it's hugely dependent on stats. Invuln however seems to pretty much ignore the stats (the difference between 20 or so strength and over 130 strength at level 40 was roughly 1% at the end of CB) whereas i've heard if you have a high END and EGO the damn thing never shuts off. I certainly die more often with PFF than i did with either invuln or regen.

[Archived Post]

having con as a super stat is more overpowered than pff. it's a non-issue. it's one of the worst you can get.

[Archived Post]

having con as a super stat is more overpowered than pff. it's a non-issue. it's one of the worst you can get.

CON is a useful super stat....it isn't OP though.

[Archived Post]

*facepalm



you guys are 'still' arguing over a moot subject.....the devs arent going to take anyone seriously unless you give statistical proof that you are in the right.......and they have the engine source and data mining numbers on their side of the decision....they will take any argument into thought...but if you dont provide proof....they are going to stick to the system that they have been developing for years....and with a LOT more statistical proof than someone who couldnt bust a shield in T1 PvP....you are not the experts..they are.....you are just a consumer with end user experience......only !


go play a video game or something....





*another facepalm



.

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Personal force field damage absorbed scales with endurance. the recovery scales with ego.

If you have an END/EGO hero with plans of PVPing your a fool if you don't pick personal forcefield.

If your something of a STR/CON guy with REC/PRE/DEX, PFF is not the spell for you. Invul probably much more.

It's a double edged sword. I know for my build, it'll be great. I've got END as a superstat and while i neglect ego, i will have field surge that restores and empowers my PFF. It makes PFF even stronger, but costs you another power to do so.

This is designed so that i can take down whatever's hitting me in about 7-8 seconds. If i fail to do so however, and my forcefield drops, i'm an easy kill because i don't have much life and, with the forcefield down, *no passive defence active what so ever*.

I do have pre and healing powers, but that's another story.

So. Don't nerf the power. L2P instead. People are going to ***** about something anyway.

[Archived Post]

*facepalm



you guys are 'still' arguing over a moot subject.....the devs arent going to take anyone seriously unless you give statistical proof that you are in the right.......and they have the engine source and data mining numbers on their side of the decision....they will take any argument into thought...but if you dont provide proof....they are going to stick to the system that they have been developing for years....and with a LOT more statistical proof than someone who couldnt bust a shield in T1 PvP....you are not the experts..they are.....you are just a consumer with end user experience......only !


go play a video game or something....





*another facepalm



.
Overuse of periods much?

[Archived Post]

Overuse of periods much?

What, you can't read all those really tiny sentences in between all the bigger sentences?

[Archived Post]

You really think PvP is a small portion of the game? Most people I know do more PvP than PvE. Plus, it will become even more popular when a lot of people hit level 40 and there isn't much else to do.

They don't have to rebalance the whole game. They just need to fix that one power. Either make it so it recharages slower, or make it so it drains your power when it's active, or make it stop few hit points worth of attack. All simple solutions.

But as it stands now, anyone in PvP who uses it gets a free pass.

Not really.

You can kill someone using PFF, you just have to keep hitting them until it goes away. It is just a up front defense, but goes away quickly if you have more than one person attacking.

[Archived Post]

What, you can't read all those really tiny sentences in between all the bigger sentences?

It's unfair to put that much subtext into a single post. :(

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Overuse of periods much?

its called separation of thoughts......and extended pauses for ease of communication and readability without having to 'strain' in a wall of text.


I'm sorry I gave you something else to whine about......


........I'm really really................really.... sorry



:rolleyes:

.

[Archived Post]

its called separation of thoughts......and extended pauses for ease of communication and readability without having to 'strain' in a wall of text.


I'm sorry I gave you something else to whine about......


........I'm really really................really.... sorry



:rolleyes:

.

Separation of thoughts can easily be achieved by the use of one period.

Pauses with a comma, or an ellipse.

Your attempt at being a smartass has failed.

As to your second-to-last post:

I seriously hope Cryptic doesn't think the same way you do. Players can give an insight as to the functionality of a power that numbers never can. Feedback from players is something vital to any game developer. If the developer simply ignored all their players said in favor of the "data" that they have available on their end, they would essentially end up with a jumbled mess of functionally dysfunctional formulas that look pretty on paper but fail to deliver in execution.

[Archived Post]

Separation of thoughts can easily be achieved by the use of one period.

Pauses with a comma, or an ellipse.

Your attempt at being a smartass has failed.

As to your second-to-last post:

I seriously hope Cryptic doesn't think the same way you do. Players can give an insight as to the functionality of a power that numbers never can. Feedback from players is something vital to any game developer. If the developer simply ignored all their players said in favor of the "data" that they have available on their end, they would essentially end up with a jumbled mess of functionally dysfunctional formulas that look pretty on paper but fail to deliver in execution.

Problem is the data speaks the truth to what players are actually doing.

Players exaggerate use hyperbole and flat out lie when giving feedback.

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Separation of thoughts can easily be achieved by the use of one period.

Pauses with a comma, or an ellipse.

Your attempt at being a smartass has failed.

.........

I.m sorry folks.......

I've been assaulted by the grammar nazi's......violation of proper grammar style ammendment #123-C43


I must repent now......*whack..."ow"

*whack ....."ow !"


it'll never happen again.........I promise HeliosXII.........never.........*ow....

you are the supreme grammar corrector !!!! *whack !........."ow"


:rolleyes:

[Archived Post]

People were saying the same thing about regen, then about invulnerability, and now about PFF. If that gets nerfed, they'll complain about something else being OP until that gets nerfed, and so on, and so on. It really is impossible to balance for PvP without ruining PvE.


It's your typical message board QQ.

People lose to someone in a game and come crying to the boards. I NEVER fails.

[Archived Post]

Problem is the data speaks the truth to what players are actually doing.

Players exaggerate use hyperbole and flat out lie when giving feedback.

Data speaks nothing but concrete figures. They fuel theory, nothing more.

[Archived Post]

Seriously, if I do PvP and I notice someone is easily injured (read: they aren't slotting a defensive passive) I tell the rest of my team and suddenly they become the punching bag for the rest of the match to the exclusion of the entire other team.

The thing is, if you are using PFF and people shoot you a few times and don't notice your health dropping, they are probably moving to a new target instead (if one is available) since they want a kill quickly and not a drawn out fight. The survivabilty in PvP of PFF is as much psychological from that as it is the power itself.


This is the exact experience I had in the first two (and only so far) PVP matches I played. My character uses the force set (my recreation of my CoH bubble defender), and nearly everyone gave up on trying to kill me after a few attacks.

I'd either absorb a few hits and my opponent would give up (right as my PFF would have been broken, with no field surge up...), or I'd knock them away repeatedly with my PBAOE, and they'd get tired of trying to melee me. After a while, half the opposing team wouldn't even bother attacking me if someone else was around.

Of course, I wasn't death on wheels either. Most of my kills came from being sure to focus fire with my teammates, picking off the weak, and getting some token damage in while using knockbacks to crowd control.

[Archived Post]

It's your typical message board QQ.

People lose to someone in a game and come crying to the boards. I NEVER fails.

A lot less crying than in the betas though :)

But yes, people need to stop complaining and start playing better. Suits me though, easy targets :)

[Archived Post]

Its just like regen, invuln and all the rest, more powerful at lower levels... once you get higher and do more damage it's much easier to chew through the shields/heatlh from regen.

[Archived Post]

At higher levels, a lot of people are going to regret their defensive passive when they feel the damage put out by high offense characters in PvP.

[Archived Post]

It just seems to me that there shouldn't be any one power that lets you tank five people and not even get a scratch.


PFF does not do that, I have PFF, and I have been killed many times.

PFF is on a limited timer, all you have to do is wait for it to go down, and they are dead.

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Also remember that with field surge and nanobot swarm its possible to have 3 refreshes of the PFF in a row.. so consider that as well.. thats ALOT of hp to go through. On top of that blocking negate damage BEFORE hits to the PFF is considered.

So if we add up PFF hitpoints times 3, and block, it will take awhile. Then again I really like the current balance, easy to defend, requires skills and right powers to kill (travel disable power, negate healing move, etc).

I dont want pvp to just be the usual assist train strategy, Iv seen it enough times, its not that fun / advanced tactical wise either. I like the offense vs defense balance as it is.

Cheers
Avantor

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I'm not sure what the problem is.. I've killed PFF users who like to block, in DUELS none the less! So just me vs PFF guy and I win. How is this OP again?

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Seriously, Cryptic needs to take a look at that spell. I have one guy that doesn't use it (doesn't fit my character), and another that does use it. The one that doesn't is just fodder in PvP and the one that does is nearly unkillable.

It just seems to me that there shouldn't be any one power that lets you tank five people and not even get a scratch.

It will fold after it takes enough damage. Defenses are designed that way. PFF is good at the start but craps out in the long run.

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People were saying the same thing about regen, then about invulnerability, and now about PFF. If that gets nerfed, they'll complain about something else being OP until that gets nerfed, and so on, and so on. It really is impossible to balance for PvP without ruining PvE.

Regen did not need nerfed, but it did have a very obvious bug that needed fixed. It would roll for a crit upon zoning, and if your first tick made the check for a crit, it would crit every tick until you zoned. That made it appear absurdly overpowered at times.

In reality, I thought it was working quite well at level 40 when not bugged. It was certainly weaker than invuln and defiance if you chose the appropriate stats for either of those powers, but stronger if you had superstats not tied to a defensive power. I think the nerf that it took was a mistake caused by the perceptions people who didn't know about the bug had when someone was critting away. Regen did not need the nerf it got.

PFF is powerful at lower levels when people don't have enough powers to be able to defend themselves and spike damage with combos of powers. As builds get more and more complete, PFF is easier to overcome. Also, some builds may take several supporting powers to keep PFF running longer.

People may only notice the amount that PFF is absorbing, and not know about/understand the build that is devoting almost 33% of its total power choices toward its defense. They assume it's all PFF, and that it's overpowered.

That's why the developers should know better than to listen to these sorts of posts this early. Make sure the complaining posters actually have a solid understanding of what they're complaining about and how it should be working.

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In open beta during the bump to 40...ice build...ice form...lv 1 gear...pure offensive build....


I killed PFF users in under 5 seconds through my burst...enough said.

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In open beta during the bump to 40...ice build...ice form...lv 1 gear...pure offensive build....


I killed PFF users in under 5 seconds through my burst...enough said.

lol

no really lol.

How much damage are you claiming you can do in 5 seconds?

I know how much damage you would have to do to make that true, as I was PFF specced at level 40.

So I am curious if you can explain how you generate the amount of damage in that amount of time to do that.

It is pretty awesome if you can do that much damage, can you explain your build and skills?

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People may only notice the amount that PFF is absorbing, and not know about/understand the build that is devoting almost 33% of its total power choices toward its defense. They assume it's all PFF, and that it's overpowered.

Anyone running an effective defense that has PFF is doing just that. That is where a lot of the misinformation is coming from. People fight someone built out for defense including PFF and then just believe PFF is overpowered, when it is just a part of the puzzle. Other people take PFF by itself and try it and decide it is worthless.

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PFF seems sub par to me. Mine is supposed to block 5k of damage which takes less than 3 sec in PVP + 3k from field surge wow 1 sec more. After it goes down, you are NAKED, completely vulnerable, with no regeneration what so ever. I was practically forced to take a second DEF passive (regen) to offset that. That way, when my PFF falls, I can switch to regen and make my escape.

Another thing is - PFF does not work with block. It takes as much damage as if you were not blocking at all witch makes it useless for tanking. It has become an "alpha sponge" for me and that's what it is only good for.

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PFF seems sub par to me. Mine is supposed to block 5k of damage which takes less than 3 sec in PVP
Only because everyone is running ice.

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Personally I think all the defense powers are pretty solid right now. They each of a "gimick" that makes them unique.

PFF-Buffer (like I would expect from a shield)
Regen - recovery (more hp the more I'm down)
Defiance - Higher and Higher defense as time goes on.
Invulnerability - Straight Damage Reduction and then moderate reduction

Each of them has a "Break Point" for both PvP and PvE as they should.

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People have been saying all Passives are overpowered. If you keep the stats up that compliment the passive it can be quiet strong.

What the hell are people suppose to do? Run around in underwear without their armor to make the PVPers who aren't good at it feel better?

I have an Ice dude and do not have Force Field. I have killed many Force characters in PVP. It has a limit based on the players END, you keep pounding it and it will shut off and need to regen. But if their EGO is high, that speeds up that process as well.

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There are no one-shot kills like you had in other MMO's, you guys just need to get used to that. Or move on to another game where you'll be happy and leet again.

ummm....yea there is one shot kills in this game, it is called pick up a box and throw it....I have done one duel in this game, I was 10 my opponent was 12....we melee a few minutes I started to chew through him ( I am not building for min/max or pvp...totally concept toon ) and he runs get a hold off picks up a box and as I break from the hold n turn to try n finish him off he throws the box and I had full health and it killed me...I had 1000hitps roughly and it did 1660 pts of dmg to me....so NERF this for duels cause it beat me...hahaha

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Stop trying to nerf powers after playing 1-20 PVP.

PFF is nothing at 40, it will be gone before you know it.

Regen and Invuln and the rest are all like that, they are OP in the lower levels when they are scaled a little high, but around 30, all the defs become a bit less defensive and you need some heals or a support character to back you up.

Now, in pvp, one support character on the other team with the bubble and a heal is really tough to break. You'll want that nerfed next.

PFF is heavy up front, but you break it and the guy drops in two seconds after that. Unless they are really really good, they won't be able to surge, heal or get out before they die.

PFF is two hits of one of my abilities at 30, 1v1. It's not what you think it is when you don't have your big attacks yet and are using your first damage ability against it.