The Difficulty Curve

[Archived Post]

Durng the end of Beta many voices were raised in concern over the XP curve. Namely, were players reaching content at the right level. Cryptic representatives have stated the XP awards are now close to intended.

However, I am increasingly concerned that this is only half the argument. Not only do Devs have to consider XP rate, they also need to consider difficulty.

- How difficult is this content for a rookie player, new to the content?
- How difficult is this content for a seasoned player, who has seen the content before?
- How difficult is this content for a veteran MMO player?

In a sense, these extremes "bracket" the low-high range of TIME (not XP) required to advance.

Now, as it stands, there are worrying comments on theses forums that players are already at 30. At some point, relatively soon, these players and others, are -allegedly- going to run out of content.

Now, let me introduce the idea of the 'difficulty curve'. If this curve is too low, too shallow, too extended and content is lacking in any real challenge, players will eat any new content quicker than creators can realistically be expected to create it. If this curve is too steep, too arduous, the game will become work and not play.

My Own perspective:

That all said, is there currently a problem with the game being too easy, for too long? From personal perspective, I only ever became 'challenged' as a player, when I got to level 15 and did Fight Club with a friend so I was at least a level early. I felt rewarded because I had to corner pull and use my head.

Similarly, with a Might character I fought Foxbat with a poorly built Hero and was beating him just using 1st and 2nd powers. I only charged up an attack, to speed it up. I did not feel threatened. Maybe I got lucky.

Even so, I feel the dificulty curve is too lenient, for too long (1-15 essentially). The enemies do not seem to have enough 'tricks up their sleeves' to overcome the versatility of builds which players are using.

Important: The point being the enemies are not tough enough, exotic enough to make fights prolonged to extend combat, to extend content. ie. Enemies need a buff. Powers are fine.

I would welcome others views on this. Are you feeling challenged by the game? Solo and in teams?

[Archived Post]

The only problem I have with raising the difficulty of enemies is the extreme lack of experience they give. Right now, they're just not worth killing except for as quest objectives.

There also seems to be a sharp increase in difficulty around level 20 or so. I think it would be better if it were more of a gradual thing.

But difficulty is a tricky thing. What's difficult to some is tedious or frustrating to others. In CoH, at one point the devs made the enemies more difficult by giving them more CC. Everyone hated that, even though they had been complaining that the game was too easy before.

[Archived Post]

The Garoon are terribly annoying. Most mobs start getting harder around lvl 25. When you do Teleios Tower and a quest called The Exhumed, you'll wish it was easier.

[Archived Post]

Important: The point being the enemies are not tough enough, exotic enough to make fights prolonged to extend combat, to extend content. ie. Enemies need a buff. Powers are fine.


I agree totally. We shouldn't have to wait until 25 to 'wish' the game was easy again. It should be a challenge throughout. And though I'd agree that the xp for 'goons' is very meagre...the xp for missions seems loaded.

For me, I'll say it again, the tutorial set the tone for levels 1-17 for me. Too easy. About worth doing as a challenge. But in beta, it was, at one point much harder and that made it much more fun. Not impossibly hard but not stupidly easy which it currently is.

Whatever these schticks are? Why aren't they in 1-17 and if they are...they need to be implemented more often...or the enemies fight a little harder. It feels like fighting CoX on 'heroic' difficulty with greens, blues and whites with the odd yellow and orange. It doesn't feel 'red' or 'purple' difficulty.

IF a game is too easy, it takes away the sense of reward. And when people get to L40 they'll scream in disappointment that there is 'no content' or that it was 'too easy'.

Ergo: I think the suggestions of Moment, above, clearly a fellow luminary, would be worth addressing very soon by Cryptic.

Azrael_9.

[Archived Post]

My Own perspective:

That all said, is there currently a problem with the game being too easy, for too long? From personal perspective, I only ever became 'challenged' as a player, when I got to level 15 and did Fight Club with a friend so I was at least a level early. I felt rewarded because I had to corner pull and use my head.

Similarly, with a Might character I fought Foxbat with a poorly built Hero and was beating him just using 1st and 2nd powers. I only charged up an attack, to speed it up. I did not feel threatened. Maybe I got lucky.

Even so, I feel the dificulty curve is too lenient, for too long (1-15 essentially). The enemies do not seem to have enough 'tricks up their sleeves' to overcome the versatility of builds which players are using.

Important: The point being the enemies are not tough enough, exotic enough to make fights prolonged to extend combat, to extend content. ie. Enemies need a buff. Powers are fine.

The Fight Club. That was the best mission I've been on so far. Lovely. Tricky, testing and rewarding to do.

The Foxbat one? A major disappointment. I think you've nailed the first 15 levels with that post.

Azrael_9

[Archived Post]

It would be great if they added gimmicks to the enemies to make them more challenging. It would make the player have to think, rather than just mindlessly clicking buttons. However, I'm sure they'll just raise the damage or increase hit points to get the job done.

[Archived Post]

Furthermore, as you note, it's not the powers that need nerfing but the A.I in the villains and the difficulty of them that needs upping with either more intensity, difficulty and their attacks more varied and intelligent. And too often they just stand there. I'd like to see them hit and run, play dastardly tricks.

Where was Foxbat's promised 'humiliation' of me? A disappointment for a villain with such a 'rep'. ;)

I thought he'd at least use ping-pong balls to make me fall over...?

You'd never get through Steel Canyon as quickly in your 'lower teens' in CoX...before some Council or Boss had fried your Ass a few times under a debt mountain. Certainly, not as a newbie. And the mobs could always be a handful even as whites and yellows.

Maybe the mob size needs upping. But the difficulty? It's off by 25% for me. Too. Easy.

Azrael_9

[Archived Post]

It would be great if they added gimmicks to the enemies to make them more challenging. It would make the player have to think, rather than just mindlessly clicking buttons. However, I'm sure they'll just raise the damage or increase hit points to get the job done.

Yes. THey promised the 'gimmicks' but I don't see them. At least not in the general populace or they need to up the volume of the said gimmicks.

At least in the interim, up the hitpoints, mob size or damage like you say.

Azrael_9

[Archived Post]

it takes my might char a ****** long time compared to anything else i've made and played to 10 to kill any damned thing.

mob hp is fine. mobs die faster in wow/coh

[Archived Post]

It is very easy. In Open Beta, I was soloing everything 2-3 levels ahead with a straight forward might character and I did not know what I was doing. Not just regular mobs out on the street, but missions, supervillains, everything. I did not even have a very low level friendly build, it was just too easy, and I don't see it being any different so far. It did not become even the least bit difficult until I got to the Gadroon with their holds. I was level 22 and, in Canada, the Gadroon start at 25, and even then, since there is essentially no death penalty, I would just charge in again until things went my way. Granted, I died a lot at that point, but I was taking 2 henchmen and a villain 3-4 levels over mine. Too easy.

[Archived Post]

there is a high diffcultiy curve in this game, i dont see any problem with the mobs outside that if you die they get full hp back. and that part gets frustrating. you get one enemy to 5 hp and they get a lucky shot and kills you, there for you have to start over all over again.

[Archived Post]

Foxbat is the reoccuring comic relief punching bag of CO. You're supposed to know ahead of time you're going to win and then have fun at all his lame attempts to defeat you. It's okay to laugh @Foxbat.

[Archived Post]

Constructively, maybe Cryptic need to re-examine some of the following:

- The frequency with which enemies use 'schtick' speciality powers.
- The number of 'schtick' powers that enemies have available to them.

The only really innovative special attacks I have seen so far from enemies, have been 'smoke grenades' and 'fire patch grenades'.

There isn't really anything in the game 1-17 whick requires a player to be on their toes and alert to what an enemy is doing. This is a mistake.

Mob Hit Points:

When Heroes became able to open with an alpha strike during Beta - were Enemy hit points marginally increased to compensate? I don't think they were - and maybe that is one contributing factor as to why enemies are easier than they should be.

[Archived Post]

After learning mechanics and the ins-and-outs of game-play, nothing in an MMO will be "challenging" ... it will just take knowledge and the execution of that knowledge. One of the advantages of not having such a steep knowledge or execution curve is that "elites" and clicks have a harder time forming. This is a positive for the community as a whole and it is part of the overall game design approach being taken.

A gamer, no matter the game, creates his own challenge by imposing house rules on themselves. To justify grind and tedious game-play in the name of challenge in a MMO is inviting creating division and elitist mentalities. Cryptic has always been on the forefront of combating this; let us hope they continue to find innovative ways of meeting the challenges ahead.

[Archived Post]

After learning mechanics and the ins-and-outs of game-play, nothing in an MMO will be "challenging" ... it will just take knowledge and the execution of that knowledge. One of the advantages of not having such a steep knowledge or execution curve is that "elites" and clicks have a harder time forming. This is a positive for the community as a whole and it is part of the overall game design approach being taken.

A gamer, no matter the game, creates his own challenge by imposing house rules on themselves. To justify grind and tedious game-play in the name of challenge in a MMO is inviting creating division and elitist mentalities. Cryptic has always been on the forefront of combating this; let us hope they continue to find innovative ways of meeting the challenges ahead.

I concede once you know an enemy that knowledge can be very useful. However, the 'margin of victory' over certain enemies currently is huge. Some enemies pose very little threat, which allows players to steamroller content. That is bad for the longevity of the game.

As for 'grind' and 'cliques', well as long as the opportunity is present for players to learn and adapt to a presented challenge, then CO will not become as insular as say WoW raid groups, which I suspect is somthing akin to what you were alluding to.

In fact, superheroes have a history of 'forming databases of knowledge' on enemy groups. Maybe collecting that lore / perks could be added to, in a positive way which reinforces the genre. ie. Make collecting enemy lore, as perks, a way of gaining a small combat advantage - or even allow you to create craftable counters (think Mr Fantastic creating a counter-device to someone).

[Archived Post]

Can't balance a game around the outer extremes of the bell curve. =)

[Archived Post]

... In fact, superheroes have a history of 'forming databases of knowledge' on enemy groups. Maybe collecting that lore / perks could be added to, in a positive way which reinforces the genre. ie. Make collecting enemy lore, as perks, a way of gaining a small combat advantage - or even allow you to create craftable counters (think Mr Fantastic creating a counter-device to someone).

I like this idea and hope you repost it in the suggestion forum. It can be the framework to an addition to the crafting systems or to the framework structure. Either way, this would enhance everyone's experience.

[Archived Post]

Well, I haven't reached 20 yet on any of my toons but I agree getting to 15 at least was pretty easy. Since Head Start began, I've already leveled 4 toons ranging between 12-16. I kind of like the fact that I can play with multiple characters and not have to be totally committed to 1.

I'm a WoW migrant and for 4 years I've only manged to level 2 characters and the second one was a DK so the first 55 were handed to me but that's how much of a chore leveling a second toon was in that game.

From my perspective, I do appreciate the fact that the player is rewarded for completing Quests, not just for XP but also the Perks while grinding mobs is all but futile. I think the Devs got this right.

I also think the easy leveling to this point helps the players become more aquainted with their powers and builds and see what slotted items best benefit their characters.

I'm sure it gets much tougher once you hit 18 or 20 but I reserve judgement till then.