Defense and Dodge. WTF?

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Okay so I am trying to figure out what I need to get to make a good Martial Arts character.

I played CoH and I enjoy playing characters that dodge and avoid damage all together.

I cant figure out how to build him properly? What Stats do I increase? I know with most pen and Paper games, you increase your Dex to do this. Well it doesnt mention anything about this ingame.


Another thing is that apparently, damage resistance/ invuln powers work off of your STR first and then Con second. Something a bit different from your average P&P game where its primarily the Con that influences this.


I was wondering since it seems like this system just converts dodge type defense into a damage resistance system and numbers, should I be going for Con over Dex for this?

Very confused and would love some input. Please, if you dont know for sure, dont answer with Dex just cuz most P&P use this. This game system has already shown that it goes off of different stats as per my example of the invul/resistance stuff.


Thank you. I greatly appricate any help here.


-Sin

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Dodge does not work like it does in CoX.

In essence, you have three ways to defend against attacks.

Damage Resistance: This is your Defense, passive powers like Invulnerability, and similar damage reducing effects. Damage resistance lowers the amount of damage you take from each attack. This works very much like CoX, the only difference being in how the resistance is calculated (ie, an item with +100% Paranormal damage resistance will not cut Paranormal damage in half nor in full, it will double your resistance to that damage).

Blocking: Blocking is every player's active defense, and should be treated as exactly what it is--a strategic means of reducing incoming damage. In PvE, the times to block are obvious--When mobs get the comic-book notifications over their heads, hold down that shift key for dear life. Tanking a Legendary or Cosmic means blocking more than jsut those charged attacks, though.

Blocking increases all of your damage resists by 200, 260, 300 or 360% (Exact numbers could be wrong, going from memory) for as long as the block key is held down. Your standard block is 200%, and you can rank up a block power 3 times to gain the 360% increase. Basically, blocking is meant to help you avoid the largest attacks.


Dodge: Dodge is the wildcard defense. Your percent chance to dodge increases with Lightning Reflexes and items that enhance dodge/avoidance. However, dodge works more like a mix of blocking and resistance than its own mechanic. Your dodge chance represents the chance that an enemy attack--*any* enemy attack--will be reduced by your Avoidance percentage.

Basically, Dodge works strongest against charged attacks and is mostly unnoticable against small ones.

Now, your base dodge chance cannot be increased through stats, just as your damage resistance cannot be. What you see as Con/Str affecting damage resistance is incorrect. They affect Invulnerability, a passive power, and that indirectly affects your damage resistance. However, Invulnerability's damage resistance itself scales only with strength. Invul has a second part, an absorbtion of a flat amount, and THAT scales with Con.

Lightning Reflexes is the passive power representing dodge, as Invul is to resistance. LR's increase to your dodge chance scales with your Dex. Your avoidance scales with I believe Endurance, though I could be wrong on that mark. Bottomline, your stats do not increase your dodge or resistance.. They affect powers which handle that.


That's pretty much everything there is to know about Dodge and defense in general.

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dex ups both dodge chance and advoidance in lightning reflexes

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There are no stats which inherently boost your defenses, it depends on which defensive power you take. Lightning Reflexes is your "dodge" power and it does use Dexterity. However, it works differently than in CoX. It'll be easiest to explain in comparison to Invulnerability since they're defensive opposites.

Invulerability first reduces incoming damage by a fixed number (determined by your Str), then it cuts the remaining damage based on your defense + an extra defense bonus determined by your Con. So if your damage reduction is -75 and a henchman hits you for 72 it will do 0 damage. If a master villain blasts you for 500 damage it will be reduced to 425 damage and then reduced further by your defense to 250 damage (for example). So against many small attacks Invulnerability is very powerful, but against huge hits you'll still take noticeable damage.

Lightning Reflexes boosts your chance to dodge and avoidance based on your Dex. Dodge represents your chance to use your Avoidance stat to reduce damage. However, its a bit more complicated than that. Your dodge stat increases based on the activation time of the attack. So your chance to dodge a normal attack with 0.5s activation might be 20%, but your chance to dodge a huge attack with a 3s charge could be over 100%. The idea is if you're being attacked quickly its much more difficult for you to dodge than if it's a long attack that gives plenty of warning. This means that while an Invulnerability player will take nearly no damage from many small fast attacks, a Dodge character will take a lot of damage from many quick attacks. While an Invulnerability player will take significant damage from a huge attack, a Dodge based character will take very little damage.

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Hm. Very intersting.

Okay what about this question.


You have two options for MA defense it seems as far as passive powers. And since we can only have 1 passive power...


You guys are just listing off LR, but what about Focus of the Unfettered Warrior?

Does this do the same thing? Whats the difference?


I personally do not like LR just because it constantly has an aura on me. In beta I switched it out for FotUW.
Do they work the same? Will Dex boost that power aswell?

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Focii are Offensive passives. They do not boost your defense.

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Focii are Offensive passives. They do not boost your defense.

Focus of the Unfettered Warrior (Unarmed) boosts Dodge, but it won't work in tandem with Lightning Reflexes.

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But can I take Focus instead of LR?


Is there another defensive dodge power besides LR?

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Are there any MA builds that people have made and shared on the forums? Can someone point me to them so I can see some examples or help with this?

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you could take the focus instead, but it only increases dodge by a flat 10% chance, where as lightning reflexes will let you hit 50+ almost immediatly if you are dex speced

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So what you are saying is I'll get killed quickly and suck if I pick Focus over LR?

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To put it bluntly, yes :)

However, if you take the Drunken Master advantage for Righteous Fists, you can have both Lightning Reflexes and Focus of the Unfettered Warrior at the same time.

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Sorry, now I am confused. I thought you can only have 1 passive? Does Drunken thing merge them into one power or just unlock a second passive slot?

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Sorry, now I am confused. I thought you can only have 1 passive? Does Drunken thing merge them into one power or just unlock a second passive slot?

Passives such as the focus or LR take up a passive slot. Depending on what role you are using, you will have a specific type of passive slot. For example, if you are in the balanced role, you can slot any passive power, if you are in a defensive role you can only slot defensive passives, if you are in an offensive role you can only slot offensive passives.

Guardian (Balanced)

Standard Damage
Standard Bonus Hit Points
Potency of Healing powers are standard
Potency of Hold and Root powers are standard
Resistance to Hold and Root powers are standard
Power decays at normal rate
Energy generated when blocking incoming attacks is standard
Standard Threat generation
1 Versatile Passive slot

Avenger (Offense)

+ All damage is increased by 20%
- Bonus Hit Points are reduced by 50%
- Potency of Healing powers and effects are reduced by 20%
- Potency of Hold and Root powers are reduced by 20%
- Resistance to Hold and Root powers are reduced by 20%.
+ Power decays at 50% normal rate
- No energy generated when blocking incoming attacks
Standard Threat generation
1 Offensive Passive Slot

Sentinel (Defense)

Standard Damage
+ Bonus Hit Points are increased by 25%
Potency of Healing powers are standard
Potency of Hold and Root powers are standard
+ Resistance to Hold and Root powers are increased by 20%.
- Power decays at twice normal rate
+ Energy generated when blocking incoming attacks is doubled
+ Bonus to Threat generation
1 Defensive Passive Slot

Protector (Support)

- All damage is reduced by 20%
- Bonus Hit Points are reduced by 25%
+ Potency of Healing powers are increased by 20%
+ Potency of Hold and Root powers are increased by 20%
+ Resistance to Hold and Root powers are increased by 20%.
+ Power decays at 50% normal rate
Energy generated when blocking incoming attacks is standard
Standard Threat generation
1 Support Passive Slot

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uh, i havnt seen anything regarding that ingame. Now I am just even more confused...

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uh, i havnt seen anything regarding that ingame. Now I am just even more confused...

He is trying to be helpful, but answered the wrong question. You can only ever have one passive, full stop. However, if you slot Lighting Reflexes (and if you like to dodge and want to avoid dying, you should) you can take the Drunken Master ADVANTAGE for Righteous Fists(which is a power upgrade) which will, I think, allow you to gain the BONUS from Focus of the Unfettered Warrior, if not the actual power itself. This makes for a sick nasty dodge build.

I hope that helps.

P.S. The other guy is talking about ROLES, which are different builds that can be switched to.

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So with the Drunken Master, it gives a similiar effect as the Focus passive power?

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I believe the effect is identical, yes.

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So with the Drunken Master, it gives a similiar effect as the Focus passive power?

Yes, the Drunken Master advantage gives you a % chance on attack to gain a similar effect for a short time. (I don't know whether it's the exact same buff, but it seemed to be very close)

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All martial arts energy builders have an upgrade that cost 2 advance points that does the same thing as the martial arts offensive passives, making the passive a waste of slot/power point really.

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K, well is Masterful Dodge a good power to pick up? It says its just a 15 sec buff so it seems kinda worthless...

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K, well is Masterful Dodge a good power to pick up? It says its just a 15 sec buff so it seems kinda worthless...

i've got it in beta, a good thing of it, he can be used when held so basically you dodge while trying to break free from hold, it can be priceless.

But he share the same cooldown as other defense powers like resurgence.

BTW stance of the unfeetered warrior is bugged atm, doesn't give the %dodge bonus (like the dual blades stances doesn't give the %crit bonus)

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for those focuses, did you check your stats while in combat or out of combat? the passives only apply after combat has started by you attacking or being attacked

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You can always hold down block to trigger the passive activation.

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for those focuses, did you check your stats while in combat or out of combat? the passives only apply after combat has started by you attacking or being attacked

I have no clue how to check stats. I just look at how I play and how ever single mob kills me... its freaking annoying. I am an MA guy, building up my dex and getting these sort of powers during beta. I got LR and have been mainly getting stuff for dex but I still cant seem to solo missions.... like that one Comic one when you collect the comics. Cant complete that at all on my own.


Sucks, pretty much every mission I have I couldnt solo it. I'd die too darn quickly. Really getting upset with this game.

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Just tried to rescue Deano and got killed by a Fan Boy and Sound Bot that were at my exact same level...

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To cleak stats on stuff like dodge/crit etc open the character window and look at the right hand column it all listed there.

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Several people ingame helped me. They didnt believe me when I started to complain in zone and watched. They were surprised and amazed at how quickly I died against 2 enemies at my same level.... and the fact that i couldnt even kill one.

After several hours of them helping me in the power house, we were able to move stuff around and people made special gear for me, and I was able to return and kill one (SOMETIMES two) before being killed.


It seems like both Martial Arts and dodge type defense is a bit too nerfed.

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how high can you get your dodge% and avoid%?

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raised my dex and ego.

Now I have a 26% crit and then (going off of memory cuz not logged in), a 13% crit dam increase. Still sucking it hard here...

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i can get my toon The Sharkness with LR at lvl 8 has a dex of 62 and a dodge and avoid of 55.% and keeps going down every lvl

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i can get my toon The Sharkness with LR at lvl 8 has a dex of 62 and a dodge and avoid of 55.% and keeps going down every lvl

Wait, are you saying he sucks he doesn't suck? Kinda confused by that? You mean he keeps going down as in dieing? Every level, do you mean like every fight or what do you mean by every level? :/

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He meant that every level his avoidance % goes down due to the diminishing returns on stat bonuses.

Let's say you have 50 dex and 50% crit chance at lvl 10. Without getting new +dex gear and +dex talents that 50% will gradually go down every level.

That's why it can really hurt your avoidance/crit chance in later levels if you don't manage to find gear with powerful enough stats.

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how high can you get your dodge% and avoid%?

In theory you can have almost a 90% chance in both IF you use Masterful Dodge. Alone your top % will be closer to 70-80% in each.