No RP Servers hurtful to Champion PnP players

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The fact that they could but didn't designate any servers as RP servers to me is a slap in the face. To be honest the only reason I came to play this game was the potential to get to play with other Champion PnP players in an online forum that provided for some RP fun.

Designating yourself as a RP player gets you snide comments and harassment, in general this is why games that weren't even created for the RP crowd have had RP servers. Champions Online and Cryptic slapped us PnP players in the face with this one.

I also noticed they took down the forum for PnP Champions players too. Maybe a hint that they never intended the game for RPers.

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You DO know there's only one server...right?

And the situation you're speaking of is isolated?


I just saw what I assume was an RP'er ingame (he was talking in parenthesis which I assume is his OOC chat method) and I just answered his question. >>

[Archived Post]

The fact that they could but didn't designate any servers as RP servers to me is a slap in the face. To be honest the only reason I came to play this game was the potential to get to play with other Champion PnP players in an online forum that provided for some RP fun.

Designating yourself as a RP player gets you snide comments and harassment, in general this is why games that weren't even created for the RP crowd have had RP servers. Champions Online and Cryptic slapped us PnP players in the face with this one.

As Snoop Dogg would say... "Go back to your Brizidge Trizoll".

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Everyone was under the assumption they were going to make it so some of the micro servers were RP so that players could transfer into a micro server with other RP players. That didn't happen so that basically is what I'm referring too.

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Personally, as a long time RPer in CoH on several characters I have very high hopes for Champions Online and its roleplaying community. I'm really hoping that some good RP groups pop up around the game and I can't wait for the fun to begin.

I don't think not having a specific and seperate RP server is a bad thing (especially since the game is being run on a single server with multiple instances). It just means roleplayers will have to seek each other out a bit more, and at the same time it also means that people won't have to worry about not getting a group or being able to do higher end content because of the relatively low population seen on RP servers.

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Only one server.

Maybe we'll get shards dedicated to RP, maybe we won't.

I am a roleplayer myself and would love RP shards, but I can also survive without them. /ignore is your best friend, and hopefully the US griefers guilds will declare war to the EU ones and leave us alone.

:D

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Would be nice if they could designate 1-2 zone instances as RP recommended instances. It's tough finding others to RP with, the game is pretty antisocial as far as chatting goes. :(

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The fact that they could but didn't designate any servers as RP servers to me is a slap in the face. To be honest the only reason I came to play this game was the potential to get to play with other Champion PnP players in an online forum that provided for some RP fun.

Designating yourself as a RP player gets you snide comments and harassment, in general this is why games that weren't even created for the RP crowd have had RP servers. Champions Online and Cryptic slapped us PnP players in the face with this one.

umm... dude. your being a bit dramatic. Played pnp since I was 13 and I don't feel slapped in the face. Played hero system since I discovered it in the early 90's.

This game has only one server. Why would a company go through the expense of setting up another main server jsut for a small portion of the Compter gaming crowd?

Even in games with RP servers there is usually not that much RP going on. What is going on is groups of friend get in guild and RP with each other and tahts about it from my experience and there is nothing stopping you joining a RP SG and RPing to your hearts content.

I played on the RP server of COH and never once outside of the SG I was in did anyone try to RP in a PUG

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I actually prefer no official rp servers,or in this case instance. It allows people to communicate, and learn to tolerate other play styles. I played on the unofficial rp server in CoH, but never really rped. Give people time to get adjusted. The game is still new. Also, if you can't find the rp, then start it. You'll find others that will join you. Just need to be patient and ignore the more immature portion of our community. If you are still being harassed just report and allow Cryptic to deal with it.

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Would be nice if they could designate 1-2 zone instances as RP recommended instances. It's tough finding others to RP with, the game is pretty antisocial as far as chatting goes. :(

assume that generally there will be 5-6 shards active at almost all times. why not designate shard #4 as the RP shard? have all your RP friends connect to it. make a thread. communicate. organize.

more accountability and action, less ****ing crying and blaming, please. (and to the person i quoted, not saying you're crying)

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... is a slap in the face.

Let me slap you in the face so you have something to compare it to. Then see if it really is one or not.

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I feel it is a double slap in the face that they did not make a server for anti-roleplayers.

People who want to behave in game just like the do in real life.

Watching tv, playing video games, drinking beer and soft drinks and sleeping.

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Everyone was under the assumption they were going to make it so some of the micro servers were RP

Why in the world would anyone every assume something like that???

There's no such thing as "micro servers" there's only different numbered instances. None of which are actually perm. they'll get created and deleted as needed based on the population.

Besides Cryptic never, ever once recognized Virtue as a RP server, that was always something we did as players.

So I find it amazing that anyone would ever assume Cryptic do something like this.

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That funny cause I played RP on CoH and I always found people outside my SG that RPed. Your problem is probably you were waiting for someone to say hey I'm RPing you want to RP? Here you don't know who's RPing cause it has no way to flag for RP. Why cause they are afraid those who flag RP will be harassed and they they have to deal with that.

It would been easy to designate some of the sub servers for RP. With a little RP flag or whatever. That would have been simple and would have let me avoid those people with Guild Names that are not RP or who have a stupid non rp names like. Bulk the purple hulk clone, or Iron Manga the iron man clone. People have a right to name themselves what they want but seriously it detracts from the game for me. Thats why I like RP servers. Less stupid people with less stupid names.

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Why in the world would anyone every assume something like that???

There's no such thing as "micro servers" there's only different numbered instances. None of which are actually perm. they'll get created and deleted as needed based on the population.

Besides Cryptic never, ever once recognized Virtue as a RP server, that was always something we did as players.

So I find it amazing that anyone would ever assume Cryptic do something like this.

They could designate some instances as RP it wouldn't be hard to do they chose not to. Since to me instances here are not fulfilling the same role they do in other games, I called them micro servers, since they are hosting to a bunch of players not one specific raid or party. My bad, I think of instance I think of a zone for one party or raid.

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Everyone was under the assumption they were going to make it so some of the micro servers were RP so that players could transfer into a micro server with other RP players. That didn't happen so that basically is what I'm referring too.

Wrong, thats just want you WANTED.

This was never even hinted at in all the media i consumed.

[Archived Post]

The fact that they could but didn't designate any servers as RP servers to me is a slap in the face. To be honest the only reason I came to play this game was the potential to get to play with other Champion PnP players in an online forum that provided for some RP fun.

Designating yourself as a RP player gets you snide comments and harassment, in general this is why games that weren't even created for the RP crowd have had RP servers. Champions Online and Cryptic slapped us PnP players in the face with this one.

I also noticed they took down the forum for PnP Champions players too. Maybe a hint that they never intended the game for RPers.

Boo hoo

There is one server, no micro servers no nothing.

If they made you a RP server then they would have to make a PvP server and such, you want to RP then do so, no one is stopping you.

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So you take not having your own server for a video game as a slap to the face? I wonder what would happen if someone said a "yo momma joke to you" would you take that as a shot to the face? Your nuts getting cutoff?
Is there anything more important to you then this? having your own server?

Did you know that most gaming companies only develop games that with casuals in mind? They shell out the most money than any hardcore/rper/fan/geek any day. Did you also know that publishers only publish a game if the game has promise to sell? So put 2 and 2 together. Gaming companies also develop games based on movies/franchises/ previous games. Why? Cause its simple, cheap, they have ideas to start with.

Your small Roleplaying community won't even dent the amount of money that casuals put in this game come release and within the next few weeks if this game gets some players. Henceforth they only listen to what the general population has to say. Having like 10 people demand their own server is just a waste of money. If you can get like 1000 people to ask for a RP server they might consider it, but i'll always have my doubts.

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I had long conversations with other in beta where everyone was under the impression they were going to make the game RP friendly by designating instances/microservers what ever for RP activity. They didn't, they took down the forums for PnP Champion players. They basically seem to have said, hey you were great for feedback in beta, but seriously you're not needed anymore.

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It would been easy to designate some of the sub servers for RP. With a little RP flag or whatever.

They never did anything like that in City of Heroes why in the world would that do that here? Besides flagging a given instance with a icon would require some sort of code written to do that, which means time and effort on Cryptic's part, for something they don't even recognize as being official.

So rather then whine here, get off your backside and start making one of the instances a RP one just like was done with Virtue in CoH. Never once, ever was it called the official RP server by Cryptic, it was always the unofficial RP server decided by us who played there.

Frankly I consider it "a slap in the face" that people feel a need to have everything done for them, and refuse to put for any effort on their own to accomplish their goals.

You sir lose the Interweb.

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They could designate some instances as RP it wouldn't be hard to do they chose not to.

The instances are created (and destroyed) by the system based on server load. They're fluid, not static. None are specifically designated as anything whatsoever. So there's no precedent to assume it wouldnt be hard. The system doesnt appear to be designed for it at all.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sad there's no RP haven server like Virtue on CoH. I love RP too. But I hardly feel slapped in the face based on assumptions I've made and promises they didnt make.

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I had long conversations with other in beta where everyone was under the impression they were going to make the game RP friendly by designating instances/microservers what ever for RP activity.

Then everyone made an assumption based on no information, facts or even basic grasp of history.

Cryptic has never, ever said anything about doing something like this, so to assume they would, is the epitome of making an "ass of u and uption." There was absolutely no reason to ever assume such a thing, and if you did it was based on wishful thinking and nothing else.

Cryptic never marked a server in CoH as RP. There are no Servers in CO period. And to do what you would want would require somehow creating an icon and assigning it to a single iinstance in the UI, which is not necessarily an easy task.

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Rp... the community will come together give it time, I for one is glad there isn't some this is RP area where I have to listen to all the teenage angst from learning they're a mutant.. I particulary like the perverse kind with older dudes RP'ing 12 year old girls... learning to know themselves.. /moving on. Thank you Cryptic, looking good.

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My suggestion. Find a shard. Tell everyone "okay us RPERS are coming in you should leave before we ooc you to death!" then come in and play dress up

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Looks like there needs to be some sort of "RP" channel to allow for easier coordination.

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Looks like there needs to be some sort of "RP" channel to allow for easier coordination.

This is a good idea.

Can you create custom channels in the game? If not, they should add it.

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I'm pretty sure you can create channels in game.

Can even password protect them if you want... But they're not listed anywhere, so someone would have to make one and post the name, and hope not everyone logs out of it at some point, or else it would have to be recreated again the next day.

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Speaking from experience RP servers don't really mean anything. Peoplle behave the same as on normal servers.

Some time ago I found a nice article about RP servers. Basically they are just trouble for the GM Team as they are flooded with tickets where people complain that others "Don't RP enough", even if they just don't RP like they want them to. Also such servers also get flooded with griefers who want to break RP on purpose.
And even the people who want to do RP can't stay in character 100% of all times. So the gain of such servers is minimal or non existing.

Instead RP players should find like minded individuals on normal servers and for guilds with them instead. Much less hassle for both parties.

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you can add custom channels to your chat tab or make a new tab for them, so make a RP global channel and have at it

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Speaking from experience RP servers don't really mean anything. Peoplle behave the same as on normal servers.

I don't know about games like WAR, or AoC, but does any game other then WoW even have designated servers? I know the idea of calling any WoW a RP one is laughable at best. Blizzard doesn't even enforce the rules it created for them.

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http://championsonlineroleplayers.com/

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I had long conversations with other in beta where everyone was under the impression they were going to make the game RP friendly by designating instances/microservers what ever for RP activity. They didn't, they took down the forums for PnP Champion players. They basically seem to have said, hey you were great for feedback in beta, but seriously you're not needed anymore.
Again, no. "Everyone" was not under any such impression or assumption. Just the few people you talked to. I'm guessing a bunch of RPers started ruminating on how swell an RP server would be and that telephoned into "There's going to shards set side for RP!".

I've been here since early July, and all I've ever heard about roleplaying servers is a lot of RPers posting about how they wish there was one, followed by even more posts from realists explaining why that wouldn't happen. Unless you are right now roleplaying an obtuse character in your posts, I don't see how you ever came away with the impression that "everyone" was expecting RP shards.

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http://championsonlineroleplayers.com/

Yay!
I'll give it a poke

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There's already a website run by CO players dedicated to helping RPers meet up in game. Check it out:

http://championsonlineroleplayers.com/

EDIT: Ninja'd by Rohvan :p

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I don't know about games like WAR, or AoC, but does any game other then WoW even have designated servers? I know the idea of calling any WoW a RP one is laughable at best. Blizzard doesn't even enforce the rules it created for them.

Long before WoW was even released, EQ had a designated RP (and various PvP) server with enforced rules. In fact, aside from CoH/CO and Korean MMOs, I haven't seen an MMO not designate servers for other purposes.

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TLTR, please disregard if already said.

but you can make a RP Channel, just like the French community have a channel:
the white flag channel....

im kidding it's the 'FR ChampO' channel


so you could do the 'RP' channel or something similar

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I'm pretty sure you can create channels in game.

Can even password protect them if you want... But they're not listed anywhere, so someone would have to make one and post the name, and hope not everyone logs out of it at some point, or else it would have to be recreated again the next day.

BAH!!!

Too bad there isnt a way to create a static channel that can have 0 people.

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speaking as a longtime PnP roleplayer, can I just ask that we please, please, PLEASE, not be associated with the introverted wierdo's that hijacked the term from us? We're gamers, we played RPG's as games before there were even video games much less MMO's or even MUDs, somehow we lost control of the term Roleplayer to a bunch of androgynous basement dwellers and we're not even asking for it back, please just don't put us near them, we don't want any of their tears on our nice clean costumes.

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BAH!!!

Too bad there isnt a way to create a static channel that can have 0 people.

During some guys I know made a channel for us to use and it was always there when I logged on, even if I was the only one on at the time. So either it was always there or it was created dynamicly when I logged on because I wanted to be in that channel.

Either way it amounts to the same thing.

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Really? 3 hours into the game, and we're already throwing around the slap in the face comments?

Especially to complain that there won't be a segregated server, when it was publically known there would only be a single server ahead of time?

Controversy FAIL, good sir.

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I can't believe they would let the launch go like this, terrible servers, crashing, login trouble... oh wait, everything is going smoothly. Really, you're going to be upset by something like this on day one? Sure I feel for you, but your timing is way off. Try and be happy you can even get on, and Cryptic is already doing such a terrific job, they don't deserve these "slap in the face" comments.

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I think the "slap on the face" comment to too much. They've put together a fine game and there has been no official or unofficial mention of segregation code toward roleplayers or non-roleplayers. Moreover, I see no need for the PnP forum as it relates to roleplaying in Champions Online.

I loved the pnp game. I played it in the 80's while in high school with my group of friends. No online video game can capture those days. This game is a New Creature and should be chewed, swallowed and digested on it;s own terms... not by our exterior expectations of nitch accommodation.

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I'm a roleplayer, and I don't feel slapped in the face. Of course, I get slapped in the face so often, my cheeks are probably numb and, as such, I wouldn't feel it. But I also didn't see the hand coming, either, so that leads me to believe that I haven't been. You know. Slapped.

Not having an RP server doesn't bother me. I've long since learned that Rp is what a roleplaying community makes it, not devs or special servers. Join an Rp group. Rp in public. If anyone bothers you, ignore them. That's how it works in life, too.

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RP servers don't matter, they'll attract the same people regardless. On Virtue (The UNOFFICIAL RP server) people never RPed outside of Atlas Park or SG bases/chat. Guess what they RPed about? Their angst as an alien trapped on earth, or always being the "outcast." To think I'm the one who got yelled at for having a "cliche" backstory by one of these archtypes. I hate backstories, they create horrible RP, and are generally used as a character's crutch to lean back on to justify everything they do; i.e minimal character progression.

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Well good to see we have the "Slap in the face " post out of the way. No MMO board can do without one!

Now we just need a good old fashioned "Vote with your wallet" and "Last nail in the coffin" post.

I happen to prefer RP servers myself, but the whole "Slap in the face" post thing just gets old.

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I don't know about games like WAR, or AoC, but does any game other then WoW even have designated servers?

Laurelin EU-RP, the official roleplaying server of Lord of the Rings Online. A wonderful server of a wonderful game, full of good and active RP for 2,5 years already, and a prime example how very different but still likeminded people can form an excellent player community when given a chance.

In real life people tend to find their own packs among people, and that motion should be supported also in MMOs, where the playstyles and the priorities differ so much. One or two dedicated instances for the roleplayers is a nice idea, and so far only possible one I can think of in this current state of the game which doesn't do much favours for the roleplayers.

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I think the "slap on the face" comment to too much.

I think the OP needed a good slap in the face.


(sorry but that was worth an infraction)

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Popping in with a comment. I don't agree it's a slap in the face, and most of the games I've played have no had officially marked RP servers. I think most do generate unofficial stops, but that's somewhat troubling in Virtue. I've proposed making Shard 7 the unofficial RP shard (More info in the signature). It doesn't really matter how we do it, it's mostly just making sure we can find each other

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wow...people...srsly?

RP?

A true RP'er doesn't need their own server.....

:rolleyes:

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A true RP'er doesn't need their own server.....



Here is your cookie and gold star. You have won honor this day. :D

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Here is your cookie and gold star. You have won honor this day. :D

YAY COOKIE!!

but gold isn't my color.....

:p

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A true RP'er doesn't need their own server.....

I wish it was that simple. One of the greatest things on dedicated RP servers are random roleplayed encounters between strangers. On RP server, a player has all the reason to expect, that another player he/she is encountering is also a roleplayer or atleast has a positive approach towards it and respects it enough to grant an In-Character response to an In-Character greeting.

On a non-RP environment, like a big melting pot of every possible playstyle this CO superserver is, it is impossible to know which ones of those hundreds of players jumping, running and flying around are roleplayers, it is almost impossible to get those memorable encounters of unknown roleplayers. The methods of the interaction are quite different between roleplayers and regular players, and mixing the two pretty much turns the mix into very unfavourable for roleplayers. You don't have to care about this, but for the players wanting to roleplay actively or now and then, approximately 5-10% of the whole player base, this is one of those features that makes a big difference.

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I played on RolePlayer server for WOW, EQ2 and a couple of other games, and that just was not that common of an occurence.

A lot of non-roleplayers play on rp servers, and rp servers are a target saying "Come Grief" me for people who might be bent in such a direction.

Even on roleplay servers most of the roleplay is coordinated and set up. So there really is actually little need for a RP server to be dedicated.

In the case of this game it won't ever happen.

What most often happens in other games is people go to RP servers hoping kids won't go there. So even with no intent to be any kind of advanced role player, they are not going to go out of their way to role play encounters with strangers.

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I wish it was that simple. One of the greatest things on dedicated RP servers are random roleplayed encounters between strangers. On RP server, a player has all the reason to expect, that another player he/she is encountering is also a roleplayer or atleast has a positive approach towards it and respects it enough to grant an In-Character response to an In-Character greeting.

On a non-RP environment, like a big melting pot of every possible playstyle this CO superserver is, it is impossible to know which ones of those hundreds of players jumping, running and flying around are roleplayers, it is almost impossible to get those memorable encounters of unknown roleplayers. The methods of the interaction are quite different between roleplayers and regular players, and mixing the two pretty much turns the mix into very unfavourable for roleplayers. You don't have to care about this, but for the players wanting to roleplay actively or now and then, approximately 5-10% of the whole player base, this is one of those features that makes a big difference.

There are always more non-active roleplayers than active roleplayers. What do you call your RP server then? In WAR, the RP server is the 2nd highest populated server. Do you think that means it is mostly RPers or Non-Rpers. RP marked servers are trouble. Look for unofficial RP servers. Luckily in this game you do not need to!!

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It is true that just labeling one of the servers as "RP server" is not enough and does not do any miracles, the game itself has to be favourable for a social, leisure RP life to be born. This was not the case in WAR (which CO resembles a lot I think). But granted, my personal experiences are almost exclusively from Laurelin server of LotRO, I have either very little or zero experience of the RP servers of other games.

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I wish it was that simple. One of the greatest things on dedicated RP servers are random roleplayed encounters between strangers. On RP server, a player has all the reason to expect, that another player he/she is encountering is also a roleplayer or atleast has a positive approach towards it and respects it enough to grant an In-Character response to an In-Character greeting.

On a non-RP environment, like a big melting pot of every possible playstyle this CO superserver is, it is impossible to know which ones of those hundreds of players jumping, running and flying around are roleplayers, it is almost impossible to get those memorable encounters of unknown roleplayers. The methods of the interaction are quite different between roleplayers and regular players, and mixing the two pretty much turns the mix into very unfavourable for roleplayers. You don't have to care about this, but for the players wanting to roleplay actively or now and then, approximately 5-10% of the whole player base, this is one of those features that makes a big difference.

What Rohvan said....plus:

You and everyone else knew there were no "servers". If they aren't doing servers then they can't make RP servers....right?

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Firstly, I've changed the title of this thread, because it's very hard to take a thread seriously when the phrase "slap in the face" is included there.

Onto your issue: We very much want to encourage the Role Players in our community to find a healthy place in the game to do what they want. However, a Role-Playing server is never going to be a good solution to the problem. Unless we're able to put in the immense resources involved in heavily moderating that server, it will never be a useful place to you, because there's always going to be that one (or twenty) guy(s) that are just there to ruin it for you. And we don't have those resources available to us at this time. Look at some of the other games out there that have attempted to create RP servers. It's a massive headache for everyone involved, both on the players and the developers side.

The best solution right now is for you to find a place to call your own, and switch instances if you're finding it too difficult to do your thing there. I wish I had a better answer for you, but this is the sad truth of things are going to be for now.

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The fact that they could but didn't designate any servers as RP servers to me is a slap in the face. To be honest the only reason I came to play this game was the potential to get to play with other Champion PnP players in an online forum that provided for some RP fun.

Designating yourself as a RP player gets you snide comments and harassment, in general this is why games that weren't even created for the RP crowd have had RP servers. Champions Online and Cryptic slapped us PnP players in the face with this one.

I also noticed they took down the forum for PnP Champions players too. Maybe a hint that they never intended the game for RPers.

KRUUNCHARZ PLAYD CHAMPEENZ BAK INNA PEN ANNA PAYPUR DAYZ.

MEE WUZ WUN UB MEBBEE NINE UDDERZ HOO DID.

MEE NUT REMEMBERZ YOO.

*hurumphs*

PEA-ES: IZ AWL INNA YOOZ HED.

*nods*

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Kruunch stole my cookie....

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Firstly, I've changed the title of this thread, because it's very hard to take a thread seriously when the phrase "slap in the face" is included there.

Onto your issue: We very much want to encourage the Role Players in our community to find a healthy place in the game to do what they want. However, a Role-Playing server is never going to be a good solution to the problem. Unless we're able to put in the immense resources involved in heavily moderating that server, it will never be a useful place to you, because there's always going to be that one (or twenty) guy(s) that are just there to ruin it for you. And we don't have those resources available to us at this time. Look at some of the other games out there that have attempted to create RP servers. It's a massive headache for everyone involved, both on the players and the developers side.

The best solution right now is for you to find a place to call your own, and switch instances if you're finding it too difficult to do your thing there. I wish I had a better answer for you, but this is the sad truth of things are going to be for now.



Woah woah woah! You KNOW this? I've never seen an official post (in other games) that acknowledged this! I am seriously considering a life-time subscription right now. lol

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You and everyone else knew there were no "servers". If they aren't doing servers then they can't make RP servers....right?

You're right there, and guess we are talking more about the philosophy behind RP servers in general level here, and pondering how to possibly create something similar in this kind of super server solution.

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You're right there, and guess we are talking more about the philosophy behind RP servers in general level here, and pondering how to possibly create something similar in this kind of super server solution.

Honestly though....this could be done. Sort of a Guild Wars way I suppose. Since it's all a "shard/instance" thing. Maybe the future?

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Firstly, I've changed the title of this thread, because it's very hard to take a thread seriously when the phrase "slap in the face" is included there.

Onto your issue: We very much want to encourage the Role Players in our community to find a healthy place in the game to do what they want. However, a Role-Playing server is never going to be a good solution to the problem. Unless we're able to put in the immense resources involved in heavily moderating that server, it will never be a useful place to you, because there's always going to be that one (or twenty) guy(s) that are just there to ruin it for you. And we don't have those resources available to us at this time. Look at some of the other games out there that have attempted to create RP servers. It's a massive headache for everyone involved, both on the players and the developers side.

The best solution right now is for you to find a place to call your own, and switch instances if you're finding it too difficult to do your thing there. I wish I had a better answer for you, but this is the sad truth of things are going to be for now.

And there you have it. "That other Superhero MMO" never had a designated RP server either. But the community worked it out. I'm pretty sure we can work something out in Champions aswell ^_^

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Can't you just create / join custom channels?
Can't you just join the same super group?

Note : I love PnP RPGs and yet, I never found a computer (or console) game which was close to an RPG... (The closest was like Fallout 1 imo :-P. Or maybe Vampire the masquerade)

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KRUUNCHARZ PLAYD CHAMPEENZ BAK INNA PEN ANNA PAYPUR DAYZ.

MEE WUZ WUN UB MEBBEE NINE UDDERZ HOO DID.

MEE NUT REMEMBERZ YOO.

*hurumphs*

PEA-ES: IZ AWL INNA YOOZ HED.

*nods*

HAHAH!! LOL!

No..sorry..but this is a classic :)

*wipes eyes*

^_^

[Archived Post]

Firstly, I've changed the title of this thread, because it's very hard to take a thread seriously when the phrase "slap in the face" is included there.

Onto your issue: We very much want to encourage the Role Players in our community to find a healthy place in the game to do what they want. However, a Role-Playing server is never going to be a good solution to the problem. Unless we're able to put in the immense resources involved in heavily moderating that server, it will never be a useful place to you, because there's always going to be that one (or twenty) guy(s) that are just there to ruin it for you. And we don't have those resources available to us at this time. Look at some of the other games out there that have attempted to create RP servers. It's a massive headache for everyone involved, both on the players and the developers side.

The best solution right now is for you to find a place to call your own, and switch instances if you're finding it too difficult to do your thing there. I wish I had a better answer for you, but this is the sad truth of things are going to be for now.

Gotta go with this. I've been playing all night, I've been making concept characters and actually RPing them with anyone I come across. BECAUSE of RPing, I've made several new friends and actually had a few people who'd never RP'd before stop and chat with me in character. A superhero genre game like this BEGS to be roleplayed, especially Champions Online (as it's based on a tabletop RP game). I've yet to have one single person "grief" me for RPing, and instead I've had nothing but positives.

Trust me, the game is better off without the whole "RP servers / normal servers" thing. A notable other MMO has separate RP and non-RP servers, and that isn't working very well for them at all.

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Why not make a desiganted RP instance. Say #7 in all shards. When you move area's always go to #7 for RP'ing. I know, I know, it's the best I could dream up.

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I RP on the server, and there is even a site dedicated to RP in Champions.

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I thought it would be useful if we could set a RP flag on our characters. And if you had that flag set you could choice a shard based on how many others with the RP flag set where on it.
This seems a simple solution to me.

[Archived Post]

I thought it would be useful if we could set a RP flag on our characters. And if you had that flag set you could choice a shard based on how many others with the RP flag set where on it.
This seems a simple solution to me.

Honestly, there's a good chance it would just be a way for trolls to single you out.

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The fact that they could but didn't designate any servers as RP servers to me is a slap in the face. To be honest the only reason I came to play this game was the potential to get to play with other Champion PnP players in an online forum that provided for some RP fun.

Designating yourself as a RP player gets you snide comments and harassment, in general this is why games that weren't even created for the RP crowd have had RP servers. Champions Online and Cryptic slapped us PnP players in the face with this one.

I also noticed they took down the forum for PnP Champions players too. Maybe a hint that they never intended the game for RPers.

Come back when you take off the wizard hat and decide to play real. If you want to RP the game, just play the PnP. If you want to play the MMO, play the MMO.

[Archived Post]

Why not make a desiganted RP instance. Say #7 in all shards. When you move area's always go to #7 for RP'ing. I know, I know, it's the best I could dream up.

And when #7 is full of non-RPers simply because that's where the game put them when they loaded in? Or when it's a quiet morning/evening, and there are only six instances up? Not to mention, how do you get that word out to all of the RPers who don't visit the forums?

I just don't see picking a number as a feasible answer to the problem of getting RPers together.

[Archived Post]

I have an idea that would actually help this problem

Check it out and /sign if you like it. Hopefully we can get some Dev attention for it.

http://forums.champions-online.com/showthread.php?t=36614

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Come back when you take off the wizard hat and decide to play real. If you want to RP the game, just play the PnP. If you want to play the MMO, play the MMO.

MMO games have been wonderful environments for roleplaying since 90s, the days of BadMUD, and through every single MMO there ever has been. And why wouldn't they, Instead of describing the surroundings in PnP we have had those virtual surroundings on the PC screen.

Now, why would this suddenly change and become redundant, after a strong and established history of MMO roleplaying? RP is just one of the ways to enjoy the virtual world in addition to questing, crafting, exploring and PvP, it's playing just as real, only with added imagination.

My point is that RP is fully voluntary and the roleplayers do not harm the other kind of players at all, they are playing the MMO just like the others. What is so wrong with this and why insist on seeing it unavailing and "not playing real"???

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Well. I had my own little idea to help with this issue.

Zones, areas in the game designated for roleplayers. For example, that blimp floating over the Rennaisance Center in Millenium city? If you fly up to it, or take the elevator by the tailor, it leads to an NPC empty area called 'Heroes Inc' that is non instanced and would serve as a good area to just hang out with other roleplayers.

Just my .02

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The fact that they could but didn't designate any servers as RP servers to me is a slap in the face. To be honest the only reason I came to play this game was the potential to get to play with other Champion PnP players in an online forum that provided for some RP fun.

Designating yourself as a RP player gets you snide comments and harassment, in general this is why games that weren't even created for the RP crowd have had RP servers. Champions Online and Cryptic slapped us PnP players in the face with this one.

I also noticed they took down the forum for PnP Champions players too. Maybe a hint that they never intended the game for RPers.

I understand you better than you'd ever want to know. You're going to have to realize that the price for getting to be social online is people are 104% raw. They're uncut, uncensored, real, honest, and blunt. You need to just ignore people you don't like and talk to people you like and no matter what realize you're on the internet.

It's like those sunglasses with colored lenses, everything takes on that shade.

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Another game another batch of RPers that feel they need a whole server to themselves to do it, even though Name petitioning...err RP servers aren't much different from the others.

[Archived Post]

I understand you better than you'd ever want to know. You're going to have to realize that the price for getting to be social online is people are 104% raw. They're uncut, uncensored, real, honest, and blunt. You need to just ignore people you don't like and talk to people you like and no matter what realize you're on the internet.

It's like those sunglasses with colored lenses, everything takes on that shade.

lol....

this

RP players....c'mon. It's been 8 pages when in the first page you saw the answer. Go complain "in character" to some one else now....please?

[Archived Post]

lol....

this

RP players....c'mon. It's been 8 pages when in the first page you saw the answer. Go complain "in character" to some one else now....please?

Does your Master know you're using his computer? No? luls get off the keyboard, cat.

[Archived Post]

I have an idea that would actually help this problem

Check it out and /sign if you like it. Hopefully we can get some Dev attention for it.

http://forums.champions-online.com/showthread.php?t=36614

I've created a new post for the above idea HERE:
http://forums.champions-online.com/showthread.php?p=861178#post861178

Dunno what happened, but the old post was moved to archives, even though people are still responding and its not that old...

*shrugs*

Please, give this idea your support!

[Archived Post]

Honestly, there's a good chance it would just be a way for trolls to single you out.

Maybe, but I found that the RP flagging system in Lotro actually ended up being really useful.

[Archived Post]

Maybe, but I found that the RP flagging system in Lotro actually ended up being really useful.

Being scared of a Troll is just about the saddest thing... in fact, anyone who's scared of a troll just might be one thierself.

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Srsly.

Coming from a troll himself, the worst we can do to you is type offensively at you.

Grrr.
ph34r us

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A true RP'er doesn't need their own server.....

Wisdom for the ages!

[Archived Post]

I've created a new post for the above idea HERE:
http://forums.champions-online.com/showthread.php?p=861178#post861178

Dunno what happened, but the old post was moved to archives, even though people are still responding and its not that old...

*shrugs*

Please, give this idea your support!

I think all posts were moved to the archives when EAP began.

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Everyone was under the assumption they were going to make it so some of the micro servers were RP so that players could transfer into a micro server with other RP players. That didn't happen so that basically is what I'm referring too.

Wait. What? Microservers? Since when was this ever discussed? I've been on these forums for well over a year and I've never even heard about anything like this.

Have you ever played <insert any other MMO here> that had "RP servers?" The RP side is practically non-existent and filled with people who just want to run around and not be in character. If you want to RP, join an RP supergroup. RP occurs more within guilds/kinships/supergroups then out and about.

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I can't agree more with the people who are saying an RP-dedicated server would be a waste of time and effort.

It's nearly impossible to enforce the RP guidelines on those servers...there will always be countless people there just to ruin the experience for the RPers.

RPers are much better off finding eachother in-game and creating their own place to belong amongst peers.

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I think all posts were moved to the archives when EAP began.

Didn't realize that, thanks!

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Why can't you just roleplay your character? Not everyone has the same idea on how to roleplay, anyway.

In CoH, I made a guy with red/black cornrows, pointy ears, orange briefs, and black tail. I offered to join a sewers team and when I zoned in, one guy looked at me and said, "What the hell? You gotta be kidding me!" I responded (jokingly), "Is this not proper crime fighting attire?' He assumed I was a roleplayer and kept telling me to "knock off the rp" because I'd say weird things (i.e., "This villain's flame is no match for my own" or "My wounds heal slowly"). Everyone else found my "roleplaying" to be very entertaining. That other guy quit after awhile, even though no was dying and we were getting good exp.

Now, was I roleplaying? Not at first. I was typing funny just to **** that guy off. Did I have fun "roleplaying" after I decided that was I was going to talk when I played that character? Yes, and I played on Infinity, which was supposedly the unofficial PvP server for awhile (It changed to Freedom or Justice, I think).

My point is that roleplaying is pretty much just doing improv. Even if you're with a group of other RP'ers, you can't dictate how they respond to your character, just like you couldn't dictate how a non-RP'er responds to your character.

[Archived Post]

Why can't you just roleplay your character? Not everyone has the same idea on how to roleplay, anyway.

In CoH, I made a guy with red/black cornrows, pointy ears, orange briefs, and black tail. I offered to join a sewers team and when I zoned in, one guy looked at me and said, "What the hell? You gotta be kidding me!" I responded (jokingly), "Is this not proper crime fighting attire?' He assumed I was a roleplayer and kept telling me to "knock off the rp" because I'd say weird things (i.e., "This villain's flame is no match for my own" or "My wounds heal slowly"). Everyone else found my "roleplaying" to be very entertaining. That other guy quit after awhile, even though no was dying and we were getting good exp.

Now, was I roleplaying? Not at first. I was typing funny just to **** that guy off. Did I have fun "roleplaying" after I decided that was I was going to talk when I played that character? Yes, and I played on Infinity, which was supposedly the unofficial PvP server for awhile (It changed to Freedom or Justice, I think).

My point is that roleplaying is pretty much just doing improv. Even if you're with a group of other RP'ers, you can't dictate how they respond to your character, just like you couldn't dictate how a non-RP'er responds to your character.

This. Right here.

Who cares if some no RPer gives you crap for your RP? Just ignore them, or be an ass like me and give them crap right back.

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Does your Master know you're using his computer? No? luls get off the keyboard, cat.

Is that humor?

don't do it...you are bad at it....

[Archived Post]

Is that humor?

don't do it...you are bad at it....

And you're clearly much better.

I just CAN'T stop laughing over how funny your post is.

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And you're clearly much better.

I just CAN'T stop laughing over how funny your post is.

Much like your sig

:rolleyes:

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I've seen 'RP servers' get bogged down with non-roleplayers before in other games. A designated RP server normally doesn't achieve what you want it to.

There -are- roleplayers out there though, just look. :)

Or do what I did and join an RP supergroup.

[Archived Post]

I've seen 'RP servers' get bogged down with non-roleplayers before in other games. A designated RP server normally doesn't achieve what you want it to.

There -are- roleplayers out there though, just look. :)

Or do what I did and join an RP supergroup.

exactly....another answer....will the RP'ers listen this time?

Its not hard...not every game will have your own server...get over it and do what you say you do best....role play.

Afraid to do it in public?

:p

[Archived Post]

I want to clear something up too.

Whenever anyone plays one of these games they are role playing.

What role-playing means in terms of wanting a server and the rest is you want to everyone else to play by a set of rules and guidelines you deem appropriate.

At some point role-playing got kidnapped by people who like to make up rules and tell others how they have to behave.

And thats fine. I don't care if people want to get together and have their own guidelines for how they interact with each other, I just don't think it needs to be under the name "role-playing" because I think that is inaccurate.

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Man, lookit the internet tough guy, Faust.

You're so bad man, you deserve a leather jacket and sunglasses.

[Archived Post]

I want to clear something up too.

Whenever anyone plays one of these games they are role playing.

What role-playing means in terms of wanting a server and the rest is you want to everyone else to play by a set of rules and guidelines you deem appropriate.

At some point role-playing got kidnapped by people who like to make up rules and tell others how they have to behave.

And thats fine. I don't care if people want to get together and have their own guidelines for how they interact with each other, I just don't think it needs to be under the name "role-playing" because I think that is inaccurate.

+20 chars...and i dunno what that even means...but there you go

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Man, lookit the internet tough guy, Faust.

You're so bad man, you deserve a leather jacket and sunglasses.

huh?

Tough guy?

my sig doesn't have a screaming "FU"

get lost E-kiddo

[Archived Post]

I want to clear something up too.

Whenever anyone plays one of these games they are role playing.

What role-playing means in terms of wanting a server and the rest is you want to everyone else to play by a set of rules and guidelines you deem appropriate.

At some point role-playing got kidnapped by people who like to make up rules and tell others how they have to behave.

And thats fine. I don't care if people want to get together and have their own guidelines for how they interact with each other, I just don't think it needs to be under the name "role-playing" because I think that is inaccurate.
"Whenever anyone plays one of these games they are role playing."

No they are not. Roleplaying means you take on a character and you act out the part. I don't know what you consider roleplaying but having someone go, "Lawlz, u need end. you suxxor." is not RP. Unless you are RPing a Sociotard.

[Archived Post]

I'll keep saying it till they do it.

You set up instances that only people flagged as RP can enter and you make people spend 20 bucks through the MT store to get the RP tag. Then you hire more admins to deal with all the OOC violations (by chat banning them for progressively longer periods of time).

I fully support giving people more, as long as they pay more.

[Archived Post]

huh?

Tough guy?

my sig doesn't have a screaming "FU"

get lost E-kiddo

No, your sig just has some gas mask guy pretending to be all scary and dawk.

I'M SO INTIMIDATED BY TEH DEAD BABIES.

[Archived Post]

"Whenever anyone plays one of these games they are role playing."

No they are not. Roleplaying means you take on a character and you act out the part. I don't know what you consider roleplaying but having someone go, "Lawlz, u need end. you suxxor." is not RP. Unless you are RPing a Sociotard.

That's your version...

Fact is that most RPG's were single player to start with on the PC. So did you talk to the screen? Cause there wasn't any multiplayer aspect then. So you have to admit that the RP version of servers came after....correct?

RP rules....you just have to do it. You may find that others who have never tried to RP will join you.

[Archived Post]

Firstly, I've changed the title of this thread, because it's very hard to take a thread seriously when the phrase "slap in the face" is included there.

Onto your issue: We very much want to encourage the Role Players in our community to find a healthy place in the game to do what they want. However, a Role-Playing server is never going to be a good solution to the problem. Unless we're able to put in the immense resources involved in heavily moderating that server, it will never be a useful place to you, because there's always going to be that one (or twenty) guy(s) that are just there to ruin it for you. And we don't have those resources available to us at this time. Look at some of the other games out there that have attempted to create RP servers. It's a massive headache for everyone involved, both on the players and the developers side.

The best solution right now is for you to find a place to call your own, and switch instances if you're finding it too difficult to do your thing there. I wish I had a better answer for you, but this is the sad truth of things are going to be for now.

Ok well thats a decent response, but I still would like to see a flag for RP on characters etc. That way we RPers know who each other are. That would make it a little more palpable.

[Archived Post]

I'll keep saying it till they do it.

You set up instances that only people flagged as RP can enter and you make people spend 20 bucks through the MT store to get the RP tag. Then you hire more admins to deal with all the OOC violations (by chat banning them for progressively longer periods of time).

I fully support giving people more, as long as they pay more.

Y'know, I kinda like this idea. Probably wouldnt even need to hire any more admins. The price tag at the gate would keep out most troublemakers. Yeah I said 'most' but the few that do will be pretty easy to spot.

Yeah not gonna happen, but Its nice to think about. :)

[Archived Post]

Y'know, I kinda like this idea. Probably wouldnt even need to hire any more admins. The price tag at the gate would keep out most troublemakers. Yeah I said 'most' but the few that do will be pretty easy to spot.

Yeah not gonna happen, but Its nice to think about. :)

You'd definatly need more admins. Considering my personal experience in everything to dozens of PnP games and groups to the more hellish SL RP sims... you'd need more admins. If just to keep the cyberprost's out... unless they buy a hooker liscense in the MT store, of course. =P

[Archived Post]

RP Guild, final answer. Next!

[Archived Post]

Or simply choose many of the expansive yet empty buildings and agree to gather in those areas. Since those areas are not quest hubs or associated with any quests a majority of the average player will not even bother to loiter other than out of curiosity.

It is called roleplaying not rolereceiving. Play your role when you are online and you will find likeminded people who will do so as well. Yes others will chuckle, smirk and snide but who gives a flying F--- Play the game the way you want it, and step out of your "I need my own server" closet that cannot deal with another's criticism.

I have found many people get weirded out at first but a core group of "good" themed roleplayers actually add to an environment such as this.

Make up a detachment of MCPD robots and fly around asking people if they need assistance (you will probably find good groups)

Have a vampire coterie that disperses from onlookers or reverts to whispers when they come around in attempts to protect your masquerade.

Hold a rave using one of the many available online radio stations and complain about people "crashing and not paying the cover charge."

Play your roles, be good at it, have fun doing it and people will join you; or at least respect you. Keep complaining about your inability to cyber with Foxkitten in public without being made fun off, and watch sympathy for your cause bleed away. "Hey Goku, I take off my hat and wizard robes"

"It breaks my immersion," yeah like there aren't a bunch of flaming #@^@&hats in the real world?

[Archived Post]

I like roleplaying (Ultimate geek rp credential?- I ran DnD games in iraq, though granted not while on mission....yet), i never do it in mmo's though.

That said i always liked the rp servers for one reason...the ultimate ass hats just never joined the rp servers, made for generally more congenial server communities. That said with no real server boundries I guess it will be up to us to create good communities via super groups and chat channels ect.

What I would really like to see? A 25 and up server, having to explain to 15 year olds they don't have clue again and again gets old lol

[Archived Post]

Used to be there was no such thing as an RP server in MMOs. RPers and nons just had to find a way to live peacefully alongside each other. It actually worked a damn sight of a lot better than the segregation that followed. RP servers are a bad idea, and this RPer is against them.

[Archived Post]

Q: If the RPers all join RP SGs, and if they have other RPers on their friends list, will they naturally gravitate towards instances with RP SGers and RPers in them?

I'm not sure how the instance autopicker works.

Used to be there was no such thing as an RP server in MMOs.
Since Everquest had one, for all intents and purposes there has always been an RP server in MMOs. Heh.

[Archived Post]

I like roleplaying (Ultimate geek rp credential?- I ran DnD games in iraq, though granted not while on mission....yet),

Quoting for possible hilarity.

You should totally do that the next time you go out on a mission, I'd pay for videos.

"Once more into the breach, my friends! I cast a level 3 incendiary spell!" *Throws a grenade.*

Edit:

Personally, I'm with what a few other people have said. Whilst I would've liked to have seen a RolePlay Flag (for your character, not for shards--which we've already said are fluid, not static), because it would make it easier for roleplayers to spot other roleplayers at a distance, and if they do get abuse from griefers, they can be ignored, simply. I doubt everyone on the realm that isn't a roleplayer will insult or make fun of people with RP flags.

However, I'm already in the process of applying to a(n) RP SG, because the best thing you can do is put effort into trying to create or find RP yourself, instead of leaving the mods to do it for you. I was never under the impression that we would get RP shards (even though it might've been nice), and I'm more than happy to look for others to RP with, or organize events.

The CORP website is a great example of an in-game community. And RP servers/realms never work out as well as people hope they would. WoW is just one example--the RP realm I'm on has almost literally no roleplay to be seen (and is just short of being a Normal-flagged realm), and the RP realm that does have RP on is full of demonic possession and tentacle..er..

So yeah. Less complaining, more putting the effort in.

Edit Edit:

And EU WAR did have some RP-flagged realms. These were quickly merged into a single realm. This was then merged into a Normal realm. Quite a few people left after that. I got bored of the game quickly so I wasn't one of those people, but it was still disappointing.

[Archived Post]

How good the RP is in any game depends on the players/community. It can add alot of fun to the game but you cannot spend time worrying about those who disrupt it.

OP is being overly dramatic, or is possibly playing someone who is being overly dramatic???;)

[Archived Post]

Since Everquest had one, for all intents and purposes there has always been an RP server in MMOs. Heh.
MMOs did not begin at Everquest. Ultima Online came before Everquest, and Nexus: the Kingdom of the Winds came before Ultima Online.

[Archived Post]

It is written, "For RP to flourish, it is not the server that should be dedicated, but the players."

Read this thread, and you will see the wisdom in these words.

Ommmmmmmm.....

[Archived Post]

Heh...RPing on patrol....<Leaping up with RPG> "LIGHTNING BOLT LIGHTNING BOLT LIGHTNING BOLT!!"

The problem with RP servers, or shards, are those idiots who delight in tormenting RPers will head straight there to have their fun. And yes, Virginia, harrassing RPers is where they find their fun, NOT playing the game. At least with no server/shards when those morons start speaking up they get slapped down by non-rpers who see nothing wrong with it.

[Archived Post]

Quoting for possible hilarity.

You should totally do that the next time you go out on a mission, I'd pay for videos.

"Once more into the breach, my friends! I cast a level 3 incendiary spell!" *Throws a grenade.*

.

Actually its a lot more boring over there than you'd expect, even if you spent damn near every day outside the wire visiting iraqi police stations like i did on my last tour:P

it'd go a little more lke so-
(over radio from hmmv to hmmv)
Blackjack-13 to Blackjack-1 southern permimeter all conditions normal, my ranger charges and makes a full attack at the orc cheiftan, i roll a 17, and a 20 .

Blackjack-1 to Blackjack-13 thats a good copy all conditions normal to the north, both attacks hit and the orc grunts in pain, also blackjack-13G ensure your team leader is actually rolling those numbers....

[Archived Post]

I have an idea that would actually help this problem

Check it out and /sign if you like it. Hopefully we can get some Dev attention for it.

http://forums.champions-online.com/showthread.php?t=36614

Repost this in the unarchived forums. I did a pseudo quote post but one from you would be better.

[Archived Post]

ravenchild19:

Hahahah. Utter win, sir. Congratulations to you.

[Archived Post]

Repost this in the unarchived forums. I did a pseudo quote post but one from you would be better.

Here is the repost for my auto-sort instance idea.

http://forums.champions-online.com/showthread.php?t=46483

[Archived Post]

MMOs did not begin at Everquest. Ultima Online came before Everquest, and Nexus: the Kingdom of the Winds came before Ultima Online.


Ultima Online showed RPers why RP servers are a good thing. This why the mass requests for an RP server before EQ was released and after until Brad got the boot and Smedley then agreed RP servers were a good idea and apologized for not adding them sooner.

As to the OP, RP servers are very important for fantasy genre MMOs because immersion is broken so easily there, but for modern day MMO and scifi MMOs they're less necessary. I wouldn't begrudge anyone asking for a server to suit a playstyle but my personal opinion is it's less needed in CO, however, I'd support one if it were added.

Now using instances for RP is fine as long as you don't have what, more then a 100 people to fill it? Plus you can't guarantee that that particular instance will be available all the time.


How good the RP is in any game depends on the players/community. ...

I beg to differ. That's part of the equation, sure, but a equally important part is developer support. Developer support provides the foundation in any MMO or any game and players build their RP community from that foundation.

Each is an intricate part of the equation and if one fails or is weak the entire thing starts to crumple or just never gets off the ground to begin with. The same thing goes for PvE and PvP, and to mesh all 3 of those together and do it well, takes a level of talent, maturity, organization and administration I haven't seen in a long long time.

[Archived Post]

Laurelin EU-RP, the official roleplaying server of Lord of the Rings Online. A wonderful server of a wonderful game, full of good and active RP for 2,5 years already, and a prime example how very different but still likeminded people can form an excellent player community when given a chance.

In real life people tend to find their own packs among people, and that motion should be supported also in MMOs, where the playstyles and the priorities differ so much. One or two dedicated instances for the roleplayers is a nice idea, and so far only possible one I can think of in this current state of the game which doesn't do much favours for the roleplayers.

Frankly, I'm surprised the RP server in LotRO turned out so well. That sounds awesome, though.

Frankly, though, that seems to be an exception to the rule. WoW RP servers from my own experience were filled with Cybering (though, so were many of the non-RP servers) or random BS that made it not conducive to actually RPing.

Also, plenty of games haven't had RP servers but still have groups who love to RP together. FFXI has no RP server, not even "unofficial," but that hasn't stopped people from getting together on forums and doing FFXI RPing, even though the bulk of it doesn't show up *in-game.*

And heck, DDO, a game based absolutely purely on the origin of tabletop RPGs, didn't even have an official RP server, which alone makes me surprised LotRO had one since it was made by the same company.

Frankly, I don't feel the least bit slapped in the face by the way this is set up on CO. For one thing, there's no problem of "Hmmm, I joined this server...but then I discovered there's this awesome RP Guild on this other server...grrr..."

The "shard" thing is one of the things I loved about Phantasy Star Universe, and Champions Online is absolutely doing it even better than Sega did (not surprising, of course, since Sega has a history of great ideas with poor implimentation :().

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Frankly, though, that seems to be an exception to the rule. WoW RP servers from my own experience were filled with Cybering (though, so were many of the non-RP servers) or random BS that made it not conducive to actually RPing.

Of course LotRO and Laurelin, like any server of any MMO, has it's own weirdos, but I think the reason why they are significantly uncommon is the status of the game as being more peaceful, mature and dignified compared to it's closest relative, WoW. At least in Europe there are basically no gamecards sold anywhere, so the great majority of the players are adults with credit cards, often also married with children, drawn to the game because of the setting or it's reputation or both. WoW kids who just want to cybor and jest around often won't find anyone to befriend in LotRO, so they return to their previous game, win-win situation for all.

All that is my experience of LotRO and Laurelin since the spring 2007. And that experience tells me that if too many different kinds of players are just mixed together into big soup, one of the most notable tastes will be social discomfort, no matter how fun the game itself is to play.

And heck, DDO, a game based absolutely purely on the origin of tabletop RPGs, didn't even have an official RP server, which alone makes me surprised LotRO had one since it was made by the same company.

It was not supposed to have one, but the player community that had been faithfully following the development of the game for years (some of them already since 1995, from the first announcements of Middle-Earth Online!) pressed and demanded, and eventually presented Turbine enough reasons (mostly experiences from UO and SWG) to convince it to provide an RP server. Just one, with good overlooking of the behaviour, naming etc.

So it CAN work, very very well. But the developers has to have resources for it. RP server will not work on autopilot, it needs extra attention and readiness. In LotRO, gamemasters take part into RP events, acting their parts, staging and spawning extra stuff etc. etc. It was same with SWG back in the day. Fond memories of the times never to return.

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Firstly, I've changed the title of this thread, because it's very hard to take a thread seriously when the phrase "slap in the face" is included there.

Onto your issue: We very much want to encourage the Role Players in our community to find a healthy place in the game to do what they want. However, a Role-Playing server is never going to be a good solution to the problem. Unless we're able to put in the immense resources involved in heavily moderating that server, it will never be a useful place to you, because there's always going to be that one (or twenty) guy(s) that are just there to ruin it for you. And we don't have those resources available to us at this time. Look at some of the other games out there that have attempted to create RP servers. It's a massive headache for everyone involved, both on the players and the developers side.

The best solution right now is for you to find a place to call your own, and switch instances if you're finding it too difficult to do your thing there. I wish I had a better answer for you, but this is the sad truth of things are going to be for now.


I appreciate that you're going to be forthright about what is possible, but you don't think that spawning a handful of "roleplay" tagged instances for a given zone would be possible? The problem is in getting the information about the place we've "found" out - what is its location, what instance is going to contain the most roleplayers etc.. how will new RPers or potential RPers know where to go? Having to come to our thread on the forums to see that the RP community "unofficial" chose "instance X" is far from ideal.

While I'd love for there to be a policed RP community, we understand that Cryptic isn't in the place to do that right now. The whole "unified world" paradigm is different from other server-based games, but we still are broken up into spawned instances. With this in mind, I don't see how it would cause more work to tag certain instances "Roleplay" such as "Desert Crisis 99 (Roleplay)" just so people know where to go. Handling complaints about harassment could be done the same as anywhere else. Even players in those other games, having to deal with RP griefers etc... would still not give up our RP servers for anything.

In addition, a simple "roleplay toggle" that changes the color of your name and puts a <RP> tag next to you could be nice to identify those playing in character.

That would be a good start with minimal effort.

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Of course LotRO and Laurelin, like any server of any MMO, has it's own weirdos, but I think the reason why they are significantly uncommon is the status of the game as being more peaceful, mature and dignified compared to it's closest relative, WoW. At least in Europe there are basically no gamecards sold anywhere, so the great majority of the players are adults with credit cards, often also married with children, drawn to the game because of the setting or it's reputation or both. WoW kids who just want to cybor and jest around often won't find anyone to befriend in LotRO, so they return to their previous game, win-win situation for all.

All that is my experience of LotRO and Laurelin since the spring 2007. And that experience tells me that if too many different kinds of players are just mixed together into big soup, one of the most notable tastes will be social discomfort, no matter how fun the game itself is to play.

I'm glad you had such a great experience with it. I've seen far too many married with children adults who were far less mature than their own children who also played the game. Some of the worst drama in my old guilds in Final Fantasy XI were caused by such adults. Some of my best friends in that game are under the age of 18 and playing using their parents' credit card (there aren't any game cards for FFXI).

DDO did tend to have a more mature community as well, because of the nich it filled, so that probably contributes to the LotRO thing as well. Such games will never attract as big a crowd as a game like WoW, but they certainly have their own charm.

However, if there's one thing playing MMOs for the past 6 years has taught me, it's how to /blist people and just ignore random ******tery. :)


I wouldn't mind some things such as mentioned in this thread like the ability to flag your char to indicate you're an RPer, though. Such small things are great for encouraging socialization.

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Firstly, I've changed the title of this thread, because it's very hard to take a thread seriously when the phrase "slap in the face" is included there.

Onto your issue: We very much want to encourage the Role Players in our community to find a healthy place in the game to do what they want. However, a Role-Playing server is never going to be a good solution to the problem. Unless we're able to put in the immense resources involved in heavily moderating that server, it will never be a useful place to you, because there's always going to be that one (or twenty) guy(s) that are just there to ruin it for you. And we don't have those resources available to us at this time. Look at some of the other games out there that have attempted to create RP servers. It's a massive headache for everyone involved, both on the players and the developers side.

The best solution right now is for you to find a place to call your own, and switch instances if you're finding it too difficult to do your thing there. I wish I had a better answer for you, but this is the sad truth of things are going to be for now.

very well put and one of the first honest answers I saw on this issue.

There are those that will moan and groan and harrass you for roleplaying on a RP server - it has happened in every MMO game I played where we specifically went to a RP server.

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Ultima Online showed RPers why RP servers are a good thing. This why the mass requests for an RP server before EQ was released and after until Brad got the boot and Smedley then agreed RP servers were a good idea and apologized for not adding them sooner.

That is not a correct recollection of what happened in EQ in terms of the RP server and who supported it / did not support it.

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umm... dude. your being a bit dramatic. Played pnp since I was 13 and I don't feel slapped in the face. Played hero system since I discovered it in the early 90's.

This game has only one server. Why would a company go through the expense of setting up another main server jsut for a small portion of the Compter gaming crowd?

Even in games with RP servers there is usually not that much RP going on. What is going on is groups of friend get in guild and RP with each other and tahts about it from my experience and there is nothing stopping you joining a RP SG and RPing to your hearts content.

I played on the RP server of COH and never once outside of the SG I was in did anyone try to RP in a PUG

Heck I was on virtue and saw it ALL the time. Now admitedly I haven't been on CoH in a year but I can't tell you how many times people were RPing in PUGS, heck even just RPing in 'say' during a Rikti invasion scenario in <insert city zone here>. Ran into it everyday I played. YES it was constant in some of the various guilds I knew of BUT it was common throughout the world.

I think the real problem RPers have is this. Even if your assumption is correct (I actually think this kind of game can bring more RPers to it because of the genre and lack of raiding myself [coming from a hard core EQ2 raider btw]) the current set up make it VERY hard for RPers coming from other games just to ID each other to form these guilds. In other games they have RP servers so people know where to go to look, in CoH due to the server set up the community created an unofficial one in Beta so that all the RPers would know where to go in advance, here that option doesn't exist.

I do find the concept of a serverless game intriquing, it could even help extend the life of the game because often subscriberships CRASH when servers slowly lose population. Companies are often hesitant on server consolidation as it is seen as a sign of weakness and people don't like paying for server transfer so they just leave. However it does nake it difficult for Guilds/SGs to form as there is no structure for people to say "hey thats where MY kind of people are."

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Everyone was under the assumption they were going to make it so some of the micro servers were RP so that players could transfer into a micro server with other RP players. That didn't happen so that basically is what I'm referring too.

You can roleplay with other people who want to roleplay... form a guild and do what you like, if someones bothering you change instances. It's pretty simple really if your going to get up on a soapbox and preach about how you deserve this and that because your ashamed to do what you like out in the public maybe you should refrain from doing it, since your apparently not proud of it.

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very well put and one of the first honest answers I saw on this issue.

There are those that will moan and groan and harrass you for roleplaying on a RP server - it has happened in every MMO game I played where we specifically went to a RP server.

That is the BANE of games that integrate PvP with RP. I still remember the children of Eximos and the others of their "alliance" on AoC who had as an expressed purpose of their agenda to grief RPers in PvP. There was a specific EULA for the RP PvP server, but there are no where near the resources to monitor it and even if there were it would have resulted in the banning of 4 of the LARGEST guilds on the server so diligence would have resulted in a huge financial hit.

I think the best thing to do would be to make a shard at each tier (that is non-PVP) with a notice saying they are for RP. Maybe not even in EVERY tier, just the first 3. If the RP community is really interested in the "community" they would have recruiters around. Barring this an ingame function like EQ2 would be nice. With that function you hit the 'U' keey. This calls up a list of all guilds currently recruiting. There are various genres from which to select "casual, raid, rp" etc and it provides the names of the recruiters on line at the moment and even has a button to hit to tell them you are intereted in tells regarding membership.

This way the RPers can still network, get their guilds up and running and in the future have an efficient location or manner to recruit from/at. I would suspect coding would simply be easier to add a (ROLEPLAY) next to a couple early tier shards, but either method I think would be workable and NOT overwhelm Cryptic. Once they have these networks they get back to playing the game in the rest of the world.

Just some thoughts.

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This game goes out of its way to be unfriendly to roleplayers

-Lower text limit than city of heroes
-Lower Bio Limit than city of heroes
-No "safe zone" where players can't attack each other/throw benches to disrupt roleplay
-No ability to hide global handle to have an RP alt when you don't feel like socializing with your regular friends
-Shards in a social gathering zone make a social gathering zone relatively pointless ( club caprice )
-Anonymous feature is present but doesn't exist/work ( type /anonymous, it does nothing )

If you're looking for RP, go elsewhere

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You can roleplay with other people who want to roleplay... form a guild and do what you like, if someones bothering you change instances. It's pretty simple really if your going to get up on a soapbox and preach about how you deserve this and that because your ashamed to do what you like out in the public maybe you should refrain from doing it, since your apparently not proud of it.

I honestly think that the "problem" with harassers and anti-RP people is just a strawman that got somehow built again. It's not really a problem, there are those on every server of every game, RP or not. We are not trying to escape any other kind of player or hide from harassers, that is not the point nor the issue.

The issue is how to find and recognize other roleplayers in the game, when encountering them, where to gather and build out-of-the-battle stories and backgrounds without all having to be in the same guild. There are RP hubs in almost every MMO, and no matter how notorious their reputation typically is, they often are important places for the introductions, IC socialization and generally just making contacts between people and the guilds. Like for example The Prancing Pony inn in LotRO. I so miss a hang-out place like that already in this game, because that is one section of the whole game experience, in addition to the fighting and exploring.

So basically, we roleplayers are not moaning and whining about the game (it is really fun!), demanding things to be changed or built again from ground up. Just asking a little help and ideas how to find each other better and more easily, and how to possibly make some exciting random RP possible. I think of all the players whining and making demands concerning this game, the roleplayers are really the least of all the nuisances.

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That is not a correct recollection of what happened in EQ in terms of the RP server and who supported it / did not support it.


Huh? I was on the forums every day and read Brad's crap telling us why RP servers weren't going to happen/weren't a good idea. I also was there and carried on a conversation with Smedley on Lum's old forums where he apologized and explained what happened.

Please explain what is not correct? Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you.

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Firstly, I've changed the title of this thread, because it's very hard to take a thread seriously when the phrase "slap in the face" is included there.

Onto your issue: We very much want to encourage the Role Players in our community to find a healthy place in the game to do what they want. However, a Role-Playing server is never going to be a good solution to the problem. Unless we're able to put in the immense resources involved in heavily moderating that server, it will never be a useful place to you, because there's always going to be that one (or twenty) guy(s) that are just there to ruin it for you. And we don't have those resources available to us at this time. Look at some of the other games out there that have attempted to create RP servers. It's a massive headache for everyone involved, both on the players and the developers side.

The best solution right now is for you to find a place to call your own, and switch instances if you're finding it too difficult to do your thing there. I wish I had a better answer for you, but this is the sad truth of things are going to be for now.

I already told you guys how to fix this, with a flagging system where a player can check a box for RP and all players with that flag and only that flag go to a certain instance in any given zone. Could some ahole come in and mess with them? I suppose, but it's not the massive headache you make it out to be. People can ignore and report, and both get the job done easily.

You guys honestly let me down in almost every way. Every great suggestion you basically just say "oh that would be too hard, sorry can't do it". This game really has no future with that attitude. Start giving the players what they want or they will leave.

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why not designate shard #4 as the RP shard?

Because the "shards" attempt to automatically balance the load to ensure that there's no more than so many people. So the general result is that no matter what, you're going to get more of one demographic than another in all zones. That may be either RP or non-RP. I don't pretend to know which is more common. Also, Each "shard" seems to top out at about 100 players (some less than that). I doubt there's fewer than that many RPers.

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Or simply choose many of the expansive yet empty buildings and agree to gather in those areas. Since those areas are not quest hubs or associated with any quests a majority of the average player will not even bother to loiter other than out of curiosity.

It is called roleplaying not rolereceiving. Play your role when you are online and you will find likeminded people who will do so as well. Yes others will chuckle, smirk and snide but who gives a flying F--- Play the game the way you want it, and step out of your "I need my own server" closet that cannot deal with another's criticism.

I have found many people get weirded out at first but a core group of "good" themed roleplayers actually add to an environment such as this.

Make up a detachment of MCPD robots and fly around asking people if they need assistance (you will probably find good groups)

Have a vampire coterie that disperses from onlookers or reverts to whispers when they come around in attempts to protect your masquerade.

Hold a rave using one of the many available online radio stations and complain about people "crashing and not paying the cover charge."

Play your roles, be good at it, have fun doing it and people will join you; or at least respect you. Keep complaining about your inability to cyber with Foxkitten in public without being made fun off, and watch sympathy for your cause bleed away. "Hey Goku, I take off my hat and wizard robes"

"It breaks my immersion," yeah like there aren't a bunch of flaming #@^@&hats in the real world?

OFT. Why do you need a server to RP when there's nothing stopping you from doing it on a "non-RP" server?

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In real life people tend to find their own packs among people, and that motion should be supported also in MMOs, where the playstyles and the priorities differ so much. One or two dedicated instances for the roleplayers is a nice idea, and so far only possible one I can think of in this current state of the game which doesn't do much favours for the roleplayers.

And we all know how, in real life, they need separate instances so that they can do this 'grouping' thing...

Sheesh, guys!

I'm a roleplayer. I'm also a PVPer. I also enjoy quests. And I like the dressups aspect of the game. And I enjoy having lots of character slots. I like CO because I get to do all those things, without having to decide between them as I might elsewhere. If you only want to do one of them, then just do the one thing that you like doing. Go to the places that suit the activities you like (there are places in CO where mobs never spawn).

You'll be fine, just give it a chance.

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I'll keep saying it till they do it.

You set up instances that only people flagged as RP can enter and you make people spend 20 bucks through the MT store to get the RP tag. Then you hire more admins to deal with all the OOC violations (by chat banning them for progressively longer periods of time).

I fully support giving people more, as long as they pay more.

I'm a hardcore roleplayer. I've roleplayed in every MMO I've played, and I've played more than a few. From Everquest to Asherons Call to SWG to CoX and the list goes on and on. Those MMOs are not even half of the list.

I can honestly say that if this game were to implement a system where I had to pay any amount of money whether it be twenty cents or twenty dollars just to, basically, be able to RP I would stop playing. I wouldn't just simply opt out of RP or try to find other likeminded people unwilling to pay extra for an integral piece of a multiplayer RPG; I would uninstall the game, cancel my account, and walk.

This is a ridiculous premise and basically promotes the abuse of a microtransaction system by the company running it. If you have to pay just for a tag to get into certain shards imagine what else a company would begin to charge for.

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I roleplayed my Amish gunslinger "Reverend Solomon Rider" through all of open beta and didn't have any difficulties what-so-ever. But I like to think thats just because he's such a compelling character. :D

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On the plus side... Other players might not get harassed by roleplayers if the game scares away the roleplayers. :)

I'm still having nightmares about when I got jumped by roleplayers for not being a roleplayer. *sits in a corner and cries*

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On the plus side... Other players might not get harassed by roleplayers if the game scares away the roleplayers. :)

I'm still having nightmares about when I got jumped by roleplayers for not being a roleplayer. *sits in a corner and cries*


I'm sorry, hun, but you had it coming.

:D

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I'm sorry, hun, but you had it coming.

:D
For being new to a game and reading through a mission description? k...
All I did was standing next to a plaque reading... And a bunch of tells came in telling me to leave with various amount of profanity.

I mean it's usually the pvpers that are rude and that but damn... RPers they are one of a kind when it comes to the hate they apparently have against non RPers.
I never did get into any kind of rp in that game after that incident...

Was in CoH.

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For being new to a game and reading through a mission description? k...
All I did was standing next to a plaque reading... And a bunch of tells came in telling me to leave with various amount of profanity.

I mean it's usually the pvpers that are rude and that but damn... RPers they are one of a kind when it comes to the hate they apparently have against non RPers.
I never did get into any kind of rp in that game after that incident...

Was in CoH.

I was kidding.
Elitist idiots exist everywhere, sadly.

On RP servers we have the Better Than Thou RP jerks, PvP servers are usually filled with PvPtards and PvE servers are packed with ultramega 1337 raiders. Sad but true.

I wonder how all those will get along under one roof. Will be very interesting to observe. :)

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I was kidding.
Elitist *******s exist everywhere, sadly.

On RP servers we have the Better Than Thou RP jerks, PvP servers are usually filled with PvPtards and PvE servers are packed with ultramega 1337 raiders. Sad but true.

I wonder how all those will get along under one roof. Will be very interesting to observe. :)

Also there are the God RPers, which annoy the crap out of me.

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I was kidding.
Elitist *******s exist everywhere, sadly.

On RP servers we have the Better Than Thou RP jerks, PvP servers are usually filled with PvPtards and PvE servers are packed with ultramega 1337 raiders. Sad but true.

I wonder how all those will get along under one roof. Will be very interesting to observe. :)
True enough. but to jump a complete newbie like that... Sheesh.


I will be standing on top of the highest building with a martini in my left hand and a camera in my right laughing at the mayhem below... and I'll do it while wearing nothing but my underwear. <3

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I will be standing on top of the highest building with a martini in my left hand and a camera in my right laughing at the mayhem below... and I'll do it while wearing nothing but my underwear. <3

Hah. Sounds fun. I might join you.

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Also there are the God RPers, which annoy the crap out of me.

Agreed. They are the bane of RP.

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I thought I read somewhere that somebody was going to make shard numero 7 the "player designated" RP shard.

Wonder how that's turning out.

I like to RP some, but some people just get WAY TOO INTO IT.
"[[Ok mates, I'm going to bed.]]"
"[[WTF?! YOU CAN'T LEAVE NOW, WE'RE DUSCUSSING BLAHBLAHBLAHBLAH]]"
"[[Uh....right, w/e...bye.]]"

RPing's fun except when you just stand around and do nothing...I can do that for about 10minutes if the conversation is interesting...if it's not then meh.

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I thought I read somewhere that somebody was going to make shard numero 7 the "player designated" RP shard.

Wonder how that's turning out.

I like to RP some, but some people just get WAY TOO INTO IT.
"[[Ok mates, I'm going to bed.]]"
"[[WTF?! YOU CAN'T LEAVE NOW, WE'RE DUSCUSSING BLAHBLAHBLAHBLAH]]"
"[[Uh....right, w/e...bye.]]"

RPing's fun except when you just stand around and do nothing...I can do that for about 10minutes if the conversation is interesting...if it's not then meh.

Your text burns my eyes, sir.

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Your text burns my eyes, sir.

Ma'am**

Sorry...?

[Archived Post]

I thought I read somewhere that somebody was going to make shard numero 7 the "player designated" RP shard.

Wonder how that's turning out.

I like to RP some, but some people just get WAY TOO INTO IT.
"[[Ok mates, I'm going to bed.]]"
"[[WTF?! YOU CAN'T LEAVE NOW, WE'RE DUSCUSSING BLAHBLAHBLAHBLAH]]"
"[[Uh....right, w/e...bye.]]"

RPing's fun except when you just stand around and do nothing...I can do that for about 10minutes if the conversation is interesting...if it's not then meh.

Same.
I love casual RP and to stay IC with my toon when questing. I hate the campfire crap.

But everybody has their own taste.

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Ma'am**

Sorry...?

Your text burns my eyes, Madam.

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Your text burns my eyes, Madam.

.........
Desolee, M.

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Same.
I love casual RP and to stay IC with my toon when questing. I hate the campfire crap.

But everybody has their own taste.

True that.

And sometimes people get carried away..

Best thing I think about RPing in CO will be less "Where art thou?! Commeth hither!!"
...
Yeeeeah.

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True that.

And sometimes people get carried away..

Best thing I think about RPing in CO will be less "Where art thou?! Commeth hither!!"
...
Yeeeeah.

Call back to UO?

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Best thing I think about RPing in CO will be less "Where art thou?! Commeth hither!!"


I can't roleplay my Amish gunslinging demon hunter without a few old english words thrown in there :D

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Look at some of the other games out there that have attempted to create RP servers. It's a massive headache for everyone involved, both on the players and the developers side.

This doesn't hold too much water. I played WoW on a RP server for over four years and it mostly policed itself. That's the funny thing about roleplayers, they tend to flock and they are usually quite mature. The only headache might be on your end, responding to immersion-breaking name violations. Our server took off as a RP community and stayed that way for a long time before the RPers generally found other things to do with their time, either in game or out, and the server turned into a nice little raiding community. In fact I'd say the RP influenced the server in a positive way overall, though the community is small these days there tends to be far less immaturity and griefing there than most other servers.

Overall I think it's a bit of a ridiculous criticism to suggest that other MMOs "attempt" to create a RP server. No, they just do. And RPers go there. And the "massive headache" isn't for us, and I'm sorry it's difficult on your end, but these are not very good excuses not to make one.

If your architecture doesn't support the concept of separate shards and you don't have the budget for it, just say so.

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you know what's the most hurtful thing to PnP players....it's not the servers, it's the fact that unless you play as about 3 viable builds with a very un-flavorful selections that don't match your concept at all you are screwed.

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The fact that they could but didn't designate any servers as RP servers to me is a slap in the face. To be honest the only reason I came to play this game was the potential to get to play with other Champion PnP players in an online forum that provided for some RP fun.

Designating yourself as a RP player gets you snide comments and harassment, in general this is why games that weren't even created for the RP crowd have had RP servers. Champions Online and Cryptic slapped us PnP players in the face with this one.

I also noticed they took down the forum for PnP Champions players too. Maybe a hint that they never intended the game for RPers.

There's a club in MC where RPers hang out (In the circle around the powerhouse)...I guess if youw ant to RP you go there, get a group then you guys can go RP it up together in group chat doing missions and stuff. With the zone count lowered, it wouldn't be too much of a hassle since you run into people at a smaller rate.

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RP should intermingle with PvE and PvP folks. It is cool seeing folks RP stuff in the Ren while I'm flying over. It adds to the ambiance of the game. Although SG bases would go a long way toward giving RP a place to play. What would be cool is if SG bases allowed for personal quarters that folks could customize to their liking.

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RP should intermingle with PvE and PvP folks. It is cool seeing folks RP stuff in the Ren while I'm flying over. It adds to the ambiance of the game. Although SG bases would go a long way toward giving RP a place to play. What would be cool is if SG bases allowed for personal quarters that folks could customize to their liking.

Or just creating a place like that inter dimensional club in CoH. There was NO PvP allows (villains and heroes could go there) and really unless there was a seasonal quest like Christmas or something, the only people who went there and hung out were the RPers. Its really no that hard.

I completely understand the issue the devs have with already having pushed back release, still having some bugs to work out etc. BUT Virtue was one of the Most populated servers in CoH. Antonia Bayle is HAND DOWN the most populated server in EQ2 (to the point of freaking lag and server crash issues). The common denominator RP server. RPers (am one) are just as fantatical about their game as the raiders (am one too :) ) and the PvPers (not fanatical there kinda a giggles kinda thing). Do something to encourage there peeps and I can assure you that your income level will not be disappointed. Its these three types of MMO players that make your steady income stream. The 100% casuals will come and go, but the dedicated, RP, Raider and PvPer will keep forking out money hand over fist until you make them sod off.