1 toggle power totally screws concept builders

[Archived Post]

I am getting really frustrated with the changes being made, as Cryptic seems to have given up on gold members and lifers (like me) and wants to force everyone to ATs and team play. A lot of us long term players actually played the Pen and paper version -- where the whole draw of the game was freeform concepts, as long as you could fit it into a point limit! These new changes have taken away the uniqueness of this game as an MMORPG.

One of those changes started with the changeover; where only 1 toggle power can be active at a time -- even if a different purpose (offence/defence). All my concept builds that involved use of melee fighters who were also invulnerable (I prefer that to Defiant for "rock" concept builds, etc., and added IDF for super dense characters) had to be revamped because I could either have IDF, or Agression -- but not both.

Now, they have added enraged to that freaking list. My "Mountain" concept, who took enraged and miniaturization gizmo almost solely for the growth aspects since they wont make magnifiers permanent during battle, are now screwed conceptually. The are either growing, or more aggressive, or more resistant to damage. You can't be any two of the three, much less ALL three! IMO, there is no point in having freeform, if you can't conceptualize!

I am so disgusted I may just have to move to another email, sign up as silver, and just run ATs. I will certainly tell my boys to forget the Gold membership. Screw paying for something that is rapidly becoming pointless.

<rant mostly over>

I sure hope they will change things to allow for we players who want to (and have PAID!) to have freeform capabilities to use them. More freedom with builds to allow for at least 1 toggle offense and 1 toggle defense, for instance -- or better yet multiples. I really don't care if it gives freeform an advantage over ATs -- that's what makes gold more worthwhile, in part.

[Archived Post]

So you're upset because you're not as big as you'd like to be? Bob doesn't have that problem ~_^

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<Sigh> Trolling, anyone?

This was one example. This character was named "Mountain" in the P&P game over 20 years ago, and had growth, density increase (always on in Superhero form), resistant damage reduction, and a few other powers. I was trying to recreate him here, and had actually been pretty successful pre-changeover.
There are other examples. The point was concept character building is going out the window because of the restrictions the devs are putting on things.

I'm not a min/max-er, nor a combat/duel monger. My enjoyment from the game has always been seeing concepts put together, and then survive against the game, at elite. I don't really care about the other people, except when needed for an adventure, or if a friend, or in the super group I am part of. Mostly, it's my ideas versus the game itself, and the ideas being realized in the form of the hero I create. Creativity, you know? Not cloning marvel heroes, nor creating cookie cutter ATs. You can do that less and less in this game. That sucks.

Allowing more toggles won't fix everything; but at least allowing one offense, and one defense is a re-expansion that I believe can be successfully argued logically -- if they will listen. I might like more; but I would settle for that.

[Archived Post]

Invulnerability slotted passive, Enrage toggle. You're now large and bulletproof and aggressive. Conceptually, you have everything you need. Mechanically, you have less damage absorption than before, but concept is by definition about things other than just the numbers. IDF isn't conceptually very fitting as a density power anyway, what with the force field and the continual pulsing glow, and frankly I don't miss feeling that I "need" to take it on characters that shouldn't be glowing.

Concept has always, in every game I've ever played, been subject to game mechanics to some degree. Outside pen-and-paper games, where the rules aren't adjudicated by a thinking person, and you can't implement house rules, this is even more true. As game mechanics change - which they always do in MMOs - concept builds may have to adjust as well. Personally, I have yet to see any of my concepts rendered invalid by mechanical changes.

edit: because i has poor grammar

[Archived Post]

So you're upset because you're not as big as you'd like to be? Bob doesn't have that problem ~_^

Chasmgasm likes this.

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You are correct in your suggestion; however I added IDF for 2 reasons --

1. Invuln gave a % of damage mitigated off the top (like the damage reduction in the P&P game) while the IDF gave some flat numbers (like Armor in the P&P game -- which he also had);

2. Mountain was surrounded by a purple glow when his density increase was activated (most powers in the game having to have visual components unless you bought them with the invisible advantage). It seemed to work out in game here, for me. :)

The point is still the same for me in that the original draw of this MMO, like the draw of the pen and paper game, was the freedom to create whatever you could conceptualize. It might not have the strength of powers you wanted if you gave a lot of breadth (that conflict between versatility and power has always been around), but you could still make pretty much whatever you could imagine, subject to the point restrictions of the game, and the GM.

I have been introducing adults and teens (since my boys got old enough) to this form of creative stimulation for over 25 years, now, and that's pretty much how I get them interested. ;) I do appreciate your reply.

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I get what you mean about the draw of the game. But IMX, I have not yet had any of my concepts rendered unworkable, and the example you've presented doesn't seem unworkable either. I've had to alter builds, of course, to realize the concept in a different way, but I have yet to see any concept become impossible to realize at all.
1. Invuln gave a % of damage mitigated off the top (like the damage reduction in the P&P game) while the IDF gave some flat numbers (like Armor in the P&P game -- which he also had);
Just FYI, Invuln has a percent reduction AND a flat reduction, so it covers both parts conceptually pretty well. Doesn't do the purple glow, though.

[Archived Post]

I for one like that not all my characters have to be ****ed off all the time anymore. Now they can concentrate on what they're doing.

[Archived Post]

You are correct in your suggestion; however I added IDF for 2 reasons --

1. Invuln gave a % of damage mitigated off the top (like the damage reduction in the P&P game) while the IDF gave some flat numbers (like Armor in the P&P game -- which he also had);

2. Mountain was surrounded by a purple glow when his density increase was activated (most powers in the game having to have visual components unless you bought them with the invisible advantage). It seemed to work out in game here, for me. :)

The point is still the same for me in that the original draw of this MMO, like the draw of the pen and paper game, was the freedom to create whatever you could conceptualize. It might not have the strength of powers you wanted if you gave a lot of breadth (that conflict between versatility and power has always been around), but you could still make pretty much whatever you could imagine, subject to the point restrictions of the game, and the GM.

I have been introducing adults and teens (since my boys got old enough) to this form of creative stimulation for over 25 years, now, and that's pretty much how I get them interested. ;) I do appreciate your reply.

I can assure you that you can still produce a largely invulnerable character who is also physically powerful with this system.

Many of these changes will actually increase your ability to create characters of varied concepts. For example the new forms means that not only super strength based might or dexterity based martial artists can have a damage increasing form.

One thing that someof the chages have done is put a requirement on you as a player to spend a little bit mroe time and thought on your build (I am nto talking about turning you into a min/maxer that spends more time in the powerhouse than in the game though). There are many more options for customization available in the spec trees. Then again, if youve been playing the Champs PnP game (as I have for the last 26 years too) you will have no difficulty figuring it out. IBuilding a character in CO is much much easier, even after these changes.

[Archived Post]

<Sigh> Trolling, anyone?

This was one example. This character was named "Mountain" in the P&P game over 20 years ago, and had growth, density increase (always on in Superhero form), resistant damage reduction, and a few other powers. I was trying to recreate him here, and had actually been pretty successful pre-changeover.
There are other examples. The point was concept character building is going out the window because of the restrictions the devs are putting on things.

I'm not a min/max-er, nor a combat/duel monger. My enjoyment from the game has always been seeing concepts put together, and then survive against the game, at elite. I don't really care about the other people, except when needed for an adventure, or if a friend, or in the super group I am part of. Mostly, it's my ideas versus the game itself, and the ideas being realized in the form of the hero I create. Creativity, you know? Not cloning marvel heroes, nor creating cookie cutter ATs. You can do that less and less in this game. That sucks.

Allowing more toggles won't fix everything; but at least allowing one offense, and one defense is a re-expansion that I believe can be successfully argued logically -- if they will listen. I might like more; but I would settle for that.

This just needs to be pointed out, for better or for worse, Champions PnP ≠ Champions Online.

[Archived Post]

Invulnerability slotted passive, Enrage toggle. You're now large and bulletproof and aggressive. Conceptually, you have everything you need. Mechanically, you have less damage absorption than before, but concept is by definition about things other than just the numbers. IDF isn't conceptually very fitting as a density power anyway, what with the force field and the continual pulsing glow, and frankly I don't miss feeling that I "need" to take it on characters that shouldn't be glowing.

Concept has always, in every game I've ever played, been subject to game mechanics to some degree. Outside pen-and-paper games, where the rules aren't adjudicated by a thinking person, and you can't implement house rules, this is even more true. As game mechanics change - which they always do in MMOs - concept builds may have to adjust as well. Personally, I have yet to see any of my concepts rendered invalid by mechanical changes.

edit: because i has poor grammar

I get what you mean about the draw of the game. But IMX, I have not yet had any of my concepts rendered unworkable, and the example you've presented doesn't seem unworkable either. I've had to alter builds, of course, to realize the concept in a different way, but I have yet to see any concept become impossible to realize at all.

Just FYI, Invuln has a percent reduction AND a flat reduction, so it covers both parts conceptually pretty well. Doesn't do the purple glow, though.

Precisely.