Can any tank builds out aggro maximum DPS builds?

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Hi everyone.

I'm a returning player that's been away for a long time. When I last left Challenging Strikes could still be stacked by abilities with a cooldown in order to hold aggro for teammates with very high DPS builds. Since then that's been changed to refresh Challenging Strikes with each tick instead of stacking.

Is it still possible for Protector builds to maximize their threat generation in order to hold aggro for min-maxed DPS builds? If so, what's the way to do it? Spamming Crippling Challenge attacks for the 400 threat?

I have a Heavy Weapons/Celestial tank that I love for its concept. He can hold aggro decently but high DPS builds can peel away single targets quickly - The amount of damage done is just too much compared to the threat he is currently generating.

Thanks for the reply.

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Try annihilate with CC adv. Works fine for me. Its one of the higher dmg powers with the CC adv.

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DC r2+CC is another good one.

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Thanks for the responses. I'm still having trouble holding group aggro on extreme maximized DPS builds, even after swapping to Presence as a super stat, putting Challenging Strikes/Crippling Challenge in a few more attacks, and upping the rank on Annihilate while spamming the hell out of it.

It sounds like you've had a lot of success with that, Squee - when using Annihilate, you're able to keep aggro on things like lairs, etc., while tanking for maximized DPS builds? I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong - I'm familiar enough with the system and tweaked the build to generate more straight threat, but extreme damage dealers are still able to pull single targets away once Crippling Challenge wears off. Floating targets with Challenging Strikes don't seem to stay on my character for very long, either.

Up until now I've been trying to generate pure threat and ignoring opportunities to build for damage - I team with a buddy who's the damage dealer while I'm the tank, and I prefer not to step on his toes or take away from that niche. Think that might be the problem?

Edit: In the past I was of the opinion that tanks built for defensive threat generation were able to generate more threat than any DPS build. I guess I want to make sure that's still the case before diving into re-writing this tank character and jumping onto the build forums. Thanks again.

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Up until now I've been trying to generate pure threat and ignoring opportunities to build for damage - I team with a buddy who's the damage dealer while I'm the tank, and I prefer not to step on his toes or take away from that niche. Think that might be the problem?
Yeah, you need to stack on the damage, to hold aggro off of someone dealing 3k dps you'll need to be doing upwards of 1k dps yourself even if you pile on the +threat effects. Devour Essence is a very popular single-target tanking power. For dealing with groups, rather than a single boss critter, I doubt it's possible to hold all aggro off of the DPS, they need to either generate less aggro or be survivable enough that it doesn't matter.

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Ego Blade Weaponry is also another higher damage, fast-hitting Crippling Challenge carrier. The first two hits are very fast with lower damage, and the third hit is a good deal stronger but a bit slower.

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Most of the time I don't care about aggro since I'm on pvp build to try and get player aggro but a cc attack with proper dps backing it is amazing. Can't ignore the dps component of threat, after all, you should be using all available tools for threat. It should be trivial to get to 1k dps and beyond. I've been able to hold aggro with this build change on teams that would drop bosses in tt in a minute.

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Thanks for the responses. I'm still having trouble holding group aggro on extreme maximized DPS builds, even after swapping to Presence as a super stat, putting Challenging Strikes/Crippling Challenge in a few more attacks, and upping the rank on Annihilate while spamming the hell out of it.

It sounds like you've had a lot of success with that, Squee - when using Annihilate, you're able to keep aggro on things like lairs, etc., while tanking for maximized DPS builds? I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong - I'm familiar enough with the system and tweaked the build to generate more straight threat, but extreme damage dealers are still able to pull single targets away once Crippling Challenge wears off. Floating targets with Challenging Strikes don't seem to stay on my character for very long, either.

Up until now I've been trying to generate pure threat and ignoring opportunities to build for damage - I team with a buddy who's the damage dealer while I'm the tank, and I prefer not to step on his toes or take away from that niche. Think that might be the problem?

Edit: In the past I was of the opinion that tanks built for defensive threat generation were able to generate more threat than any DPS build. I guess I want to make sure that's still the case before diving into re-writing this tank character and jumping onto the build forums. Thanks again.

Your best bet is to simply wait a few weeks or head over to the test server. Much of your problems are going to change in the next publish. A lot of the threat management will be handled by roles instead of modifying attacks. Although CC and CS can still be taken as a supplement.

And, I believe, PRE is loosing all its threat management powers.

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Yes, it's possible. All of my SG's tanks can hold aggro from DPSers putting out 4k+ easily. You'll need to super stat presence, use high damage abilities with crippling challenge, and heal yourself while you attack. All three might not be necessary unless you're playing with any of titotito's DPS builds, but it's good to go for it anyway. Conviction, dodge+BCR, and Regeneration all help with the healing. Dragon's Claws, Defensive Combo, Lightning Arc, Annihilate, Ego Weaponry and several other attacks are all good for threat. I intentionally left out the highest threat power in the game from that list, because mysteries are fun!

For AoE threat I always liked the chain powers (Iron/Vicious Cyclone). High damage + challenging strikes, and you can knock enemies toward you so they can't always run past you to attack the DPSers. But like Pants said, there's almost no way to generate more AoE threat than any decent AoE DPS, so your best bet is to get a head start, and then hope the DPSers kill everything before they pull aggro.

But like sock said, all this could be changing in a month when they redesign the game mechanics. Since you don't have to pick Presence for the threat boost anymore, a higher DPS tank could possibly be built with other stats (*cough* Enrage) that might take aggro from the current highest-threat builds.

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laser sword
dragon's claws
annihilate
devour essence

these do the most dmg on bosses afaik.

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Superstat Presence....problem solved.

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Superstat Presence....problem solved.

With the current changes coming in less than a month, threat gen will basically be through role and CC/CS - pre won't have the same purpose unless they reverted back.

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If you want to be the biggest threat, have a lot of heals. I don't understand why, but every time a villain catches wind that a hero has the nerve to heal themselves, it sends them into a rage XD

In all seriousness, get defensive combo, a quick CC attack, and a quick CS attack. Defensive Combo generates threat all on its own, it's an ideal tanking power.

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Every power that does damage or heals also generates threat all on its own. Plus, they deal damage and/or heal you on top of it.

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Every power that does damage or heals also generates threat all on its own.
Yeah, but they do it differently. Damage powers apply threat to every critter they hit. Healing powers apply threat to every critter in range. Healing isn't much threat, but it's enough to make unengaged critters beat on you.

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With the current changes coming in less than a month, threat gen will basically be through role and CC/CS - pre won't have the same purpose unless they reverted back.

I know, I was just commenting on the current conditions.

In all seriousness, get defensive combo, a quick CC attack, and a quick CS attack. Defensive Combo generates threat all on its own, it's an ideal tanking power.

This too. I have Def Combo solely for my tanking needs. :)

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I switched from Brawler to Protector and when tanking for pve instances, I do team sometimes with good dpsers (high damages).
During fights, they usually take the aggro once or twice but if you've all the tanker tools (CC, CS, self-heal, spike attack) you can still keep the aggro most of the time.