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View Full Version : Stop self-Rezzing in ZA.


Archived Post
11-01-2011, 01:12 AM
Have some dignity. Or is it integrity?

Stop resurrecting yourself in Zombie Apocalypse PvP. Just stop it. Man-up. Own-up. You were killed. Now go eat some brains.


IF some resurrection power is already in your power-set, then rez ONLY YOURSELF.


But if you use devices, or even more cowardly, re-log to switch back to Heroes side, never queu for ZA, and never call yourself 'hero' again.



You defeat the entire purpose of ZA PvP, and make people like me not want to even bother. And it's one of the few things left to do in the game.



EDIT: Wanted to add that I'm F2P. It's REALLY pathetic when the re-loggers and self-rez device users are also paying $15 more a month than I am. Seriously. Have some dignity.

(you'll notice I have no problem with people SELF-rezzing with powers, since they invested actual build points into that)

Archived Post
11-01-2011, 01:23 AM
Have some dignity. Or is it integrity?

Stop resurrecting yourself in Zombie Apocalypse PvP. Just stop it. Man-up. Own-up. You were killed. Now go eat some brains.


IF some resurrection power is already in your power-set, then rez ONLY YOURSELF.


But if you use devices, or even more cowardly, re-log to switch back to Heroes side, never queu for ZA, and never call yourself 'hero' again.



You defeat the entire purpose of ZA PvP, and make people like me not want to even bother. And it's one of the few things left to do in the game.



Resurrection through devices or powers - I'm fine with that. Heck, it's even kindof amusing to see someone actually using a self-rez power.

Relogging - despicable. The moment I see someone do this I'm going zombie.

Archived Post
11-01-2011, 10:34 AM
It's a power. That means its one heal, active defense, active offense, buff, defensive shield, etc. Less. This should be a good thing.

What's with the hate for devices in PvP?
The devs created them, people use them, what's wrong with that?

The logging trick? Despicable, of course.

Archived Post
11-01-2011, 10:49 AM
/ratedownpost

Archived Post
11-01-2011, 02:32 PM
Resurrection through devices or powers - I'm fine with that. Heck, it's even kindof amusing to see someone actually using a self-rez power.

Relogging - despicable. The moment I see someone do this I'm going zombie.

what's the difference in real terms? I think the only reason you are okay with it is because not many people use the selfrez devices or powers. If they patched the logging issue, it's not that hard to stock up on zombie powder and duplicate it.

Archived Post
11-01-2011, 02:36 PM
what's the difference in real terms?
Using a power or device requires an actual investment by the player to acquire the power or device, and is playing within the rules of the game.

Archived Post
11-01-2011, 07:42 PM
You can buy the devices cheaply, and there really aren't any hard or fast rules about logging in ZA period. Nothing is against the rules if you log to avoid being the zombie, use /killme to help the zombie, or just chat while being the zombie to let the players farm for twenty minutes or so.

Yeha it sucks for the zombie players, but so do self-rezzes, which was the OP's point. I wonder why they didn't lock rezzes out, to be honest.

Archived Post
11-02-2011, 05:50 AM
I have a problem with re-logging. I don't have a problem with with rezzing powers, which require a power sacrafice and most are interruptable, or devices acquired within the game like zombie powder, which required someone (maybe not the user) to play the game to get it.

I'm a bit worried about the c-store rezzes because you could argue that those are "pay to win" (for ZA anyway). Is there a cooldown on those (never used one)? If there's a decent cooldown, then I don't have much of an issue - kill them before the cooldown expires.

Archived Post
11-02-2011, 06:34 AM
Devices should ALL be disabled, period.
I don't see why some can have 5 skillsets and a regular player only one.

That being said, self-rez power(s) do take a slot in your skill bar, so you can't have something else.
You killed them once, kill them again. Raging against Devices, ok, I can get, but not against a selected power.

As for the relog, well those maps should simply not allow it. Disable the function that relogs you into the previous instance. Yes, I know some people are unlucky, happens to me sometimes. But if you advertise that the map is DC intolerant, well, enter who will, right?

Archived Post
11-02-2011, 07:09 AM
I'd resurrect players on the survivors side with my Resurrection Serum - if only any of them stuck around long enough for me to do it. But, to quote Family Guy's version of Spider-Man...

Everybody gets one.

You die twice, then go join the zombies. I die, then I go join the zombies. It's only fair. Self-rez powers, though? I'm of the mindset that it's your power, you picked a power pick to take it, so use it. Besides, think there's only one or two self-rez powers anyway, and they have something like a ten-minute timer on them, so go for it. Devices... I'm less a supporter of. They tend to unbalance things, but the ones that do unbalance things are the ones that people put lots of effort into getting, so it's not like every Tom, ****, and Harry has them without putting forth some effort.

Archived Post
11-02-2011, 07:52 AM
This should really go for both sides, not just people who relog to be heroes, but to those who relog to be Zombies as well.

Archived Post
11-02-2011, 08:07 AM
IF some resurrection power is already in your power-set, then rez ONLY YOURSELF.
Quick question but I thought the rezz powers were split in that some are self rezz only (rebirth, circle of radiant) and some are rezz other player only (rezz serum & redemption).

Devices like zombie powder, servitor serum & triumphant recovery are self rezz only to.

Basically if there's anything out there rezz wise I don't know about (or an wrong about) I wanna know, my healer may need it!

I don't use any rezz in ZA, but I'm not gonna complain about someone else doing that but if I'm zombie then I'm targeting them now as that power should be on cooldown then.

Archived Post
11-02-2011, 09:55 AM
As for the relog, well those maps should simply not allow it. Disable the function that relogs you into the previous instance. Yes, I know some people are unlucky, happens to me sometimes. But if you advertise that the map is DC intolerant, well, enter who will, right?
it's right.

Archived Post
11-02-2011, 12:46 PM
tbh i dont really care when in za someone uses a rez... cause most likely ill just kill him again. like others said tho, that reloggin crap is wat is annoying.

Archived Post
11-03-2011, 02:50 PM
Players who intentionally subvert game mechanics in unintented ways in pvp are the entire reason I've used some of the grieftastic builds I've made. It's unfortunate for the none tighty whitey stains who try to play with some integrity.

Archived Post
11-03-2011, 03:58 PM
Simple fix for the only exploit actually mentioned in this thread: Logging out/DCing in ZA forces you to remain on whatever side you were on when you logged out/DCed. There, once that is patched up, no one can exploit... that and using /killme in a PvP map... lock that out and have /stuck move you to the starting area of your "team".

Archived Post
11-04-2011, 04:51 AM
Its the invul dodge dragon wrath tanks who relog that take the cake. Usually take 3 zombies to kill them, and when you do they just relog and troll you in zone chat.

Archived Post
11-04-2011, 10:47 PM
Hi Dude,
U seem agitated when pple use self-ress power and devices.Just to let u know,I'm one of the pple that uses it for my healer char.I'm a squishy healer that needs all kinds of devices to survive in pvp. I feel there's nothing wrong with that.There are players who enter the instance and simply do nothing to earn free acclaims.Compare to using self ress power and items u should know Whose the worse of all!

Archived Post
11-05-2011, 12:01 AM
All points should be wiped by relogging in Hero Games.

Archived Post
11-05-2011, 12:48 AM
All points should be wiped by relogging in Hero Games.

And how does that fix anything?

Archived Post
11-05-2011, 01:15 AM
Can they make it so you can use a rez on a zombified person to turn them back into a live hero? ;) :cool:






j/k

Archived Post
11-05-2011, 01:44 AM
The way it cuts down ZA reloggers to about 20%.

Archived Post
11-05-2011, 08:10 AM
Can they make it so you can use a rez on a zombified person to turn them back into a live hero? ;) :cool:






j/k

Only if zombie heroes can use Toxic attacks to instantly zombify live heroes!

Archived Post
11-05-2011, 08:56 AM
I know when I first started playing that once you went zombie, you didn't go back. I know because there were a couple of occasions where I had come into the match with a lvl 31 elec toon and after a few minutes of getting farmed by 5 DBrs (and those that know me know I'm not hatin on the DB) I figured I would try something else. Your toon would be stuck as a zombie until that match timed out, pretty much, so it's either deal with it, or stand around out of the way, or switch toons. So, at one point, the whole 'oh no, I started as a zombie, no likey, me fix' thing didn't work, I'm pretty sure... I don't know about the whole reloggin to become un... undead for those that start as one of the living, as I never tried it.

I always thought it'd be kinda cool if everyone just started as a hero anyway, 'cause let's face it, it's usually gonna go one of a few ways at the start of match when there are still few NPC zombies, even fewer if there are less than 4 heroes... if you go in and wipe the group in the first few minutes with an offensive toon, you're liable to get grief for it (typically by being called a griefer :p), or you could get smeared by a 6 v 1 (well, 18ormore v 1 if you count the turrets, pets, sigils, etc, etc, etc) with a debuff&hold bar that stretches about 1/2 a tako under your HUD avatar (and why is it that ppl try to lock you down in a hold when 3 of their compadres already have a hold/stun/root on you and you're sitting at 13/5600 anyway? I mean to the point that you're breaking hold effects and getting residual non-damaging hits from a ruin or defile tap while you respawn in the cave :D).

So, why not just let everybody get to be a hero for a minute or two, then have the server randomly choose one toon to go zombie (poof, like teddy) and then randomly choose until everybody has dropped or the timer expires. Make it like it used to be (at least, fme) where zombi...fication? isn't so easily reverted, and done?

also, something needs to be looked at with regard to how aoe heals work for ppl that aren't on the team of the person with vala's light, drones, etc. Trillian stood around for over 15 minutes the other night in ZA, only attacking NPC zombies that close to the person with vala's (spamming it over and over again), wasn't even on the team of that person, and was never in any danger of, well, anything, other than boredom. It was kind of a cool build, too, lvl 32 w/ 2 kinds of sigils to throw around and such. meh, idk, ramblin at this point.

Archived Post
11-05-2011, 02:38 PM
Only if zombie heroes can use Toxic attacks to instantly zombify live heroes!

No silly.. they have to use bite!

Archived Post
11-05-2011, 07:59 PM
Just when I thought the relogging was over....boy, was i wrong. Played a ZA earlier, killed players kept on relogging. After the game I went on another character, met almost the same people in ZA, again with a relogging, killed myself, and then killed them. (My apologies to those that were new and didn't relog. You were unfortunate casualties and I promise I'll repay the debt :D)

Funny thing about this whole incident was that the people that were promoting this relogging (via Zone chat, actually) were people I've never met or seen before in the last few months (relogging was extremely rampant a month ago with the acclaim gear review). I wonder, is this going to come in waves of popularity?

Archived Post
11-05-2011, 09:43 PM
this thread is ridiculous. Did anybody even address the main reason relogging makes sense?


horrible acclaim as zombie

I enjoy a good re-log. It's a +5k acclaim move

Archived Post
11-06-2011, 03:08 AM
this thread is ridiculous. Did anybody even address the main reason relogging makes sense?


horrible acclaim as zombie

I enjoy a good re-log. It's a +5k acclaim move

So exploiting for extra acclaim makes it ok?

Archived Post
11-06-2011, 02:26 PM
this thread is ridiculous. Did anybody even address the main reason relogging makes sense?


horrible acclaim as zombie

I enjoy a good re-log. It's a +5k acclaim move

actually the acclaim can be pretty good for the zombie with folks like you're describing around. consider this image (http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/1920/12for1.jpg) ... of course, some that died simply left their toons lying there until the match timed. others relogged to hero status. so, yah, sure, sounds like a good idea to me. see, the more kills I can get in a match, the closer I get to ahh... finally... (http://www.champions-online-wiki.com/wiki/King_Of_the_Zombies) and since killing pc zombies or pc heroes counts toward the perk, well, you can see where I can find it helpful in the end ;)

Archived Post
11-06-2011, 04:30 PM
3m32s huh. Sounds to me like someone has nothing to brag about. I'm not allowed to post @names though.

Archived Post
11-06-2011, 05:59 PM
3m32s huh. Sounds to me like someone has nothing to brag about. I'm not allowed to post @names though.

nice. assuming the 'bragging' reference was directed at me, I assure you, ZA is nothing to brag about. if you'd like, you can go back and view the link of the img I posted and count the number of players in the match, and re-read my post.

lvl 30-something zombie, and a guy standing on the roof of the cabin informing ppl of how to perform re-logs and then subsequently relogging (and dying again) 3x during the match...

upon further review, though, I think you're right though. that match was something to brag about: it didn't go 20 mins in this day of IDF/AoPM stacking.

Archived Post
11-06-2011, 07:59 PM
nice. assuming the 'bragging' reference was directed at me, I assure you, ZA is nothing to brag about. if you'd like, you can go back and view the link of the img I posted and count the number of players in the match, and re-read my post.

lvl 30-something zombie, and a guy standing on the roof of the cabin informing ppl of how to perform re-logs and then subsequently relogging (and dying again) 3x during the match...

upon further review, though, I think you're right though. that match was something to brag about: it didn't go 20 mins in this day of IDF/AoPM stacking.

Ok well I assumed that you would understand my post and make some sort of intelligent response that would further the discussion, but since you didn't, I guess I will have to explain. Surviving for less than 4 minutes with a dodge tank means either you are really bad, which takes the shine out of your super amazing achievement of ganking a bunch of PvE toons who weren't even interested in fighting back; or you killed yourself, which is just as exploitative as re-logging.

In fact, both of the issues I just highlighted are just as big of problems in ZA as re-logging. Re-logging and suiciding almost balance each other out. However, the problem of ZA being the only PvP that you can reasonably bring a PvE character into, but still getting spammed by people using BASH/UTC FotM builds anyway, doesn't really have a flip-side. A couple months ago, there was no point in PvPing unless you actually liked it, but now that the best gear in the game can only reliably be bought with acclaim, PvE players are all but forced to go endure the horribly unbalanced PvP gameplay of CO if they want their toons to be fully geared. So, if PvE people want to come to ZA and re-log for extra acclaim, more power to them. The fact that they even have to be there is probably more annoying for them than their re-logging is for you. You'll both just have to tough it out until some good decisions are made. Better yet, if you like PvP, go play a real PvP mode and stop ganking PvE toons in ZA to get your rocks off. And if your response to that is "but I find ZA's gameplay to be more fun blah blah blah", then I regret to inform you that until it's actually fixed, re-logging is part of the game. Deal with it.

And for the record, I don't re-log.

Archived Post
11-06-2011, 08:44 PM
The fact that they even have to be there is probably more annoying for them than their re-logging is for you. You'll both just have to tough it out until some good decisions are made. Better yet, if you like PvP, go play a real PvP mode and stop ganking PvE toons in ZA to get your rocks off.

Interesting logic.

So, since the PvE players don't want to go through the trouble of doing things right, and since they don't seem to grab the concept of "you must earn your reward", PvP players are supposed to feel guilty about playing the game by the book, as exactly as it is meant to be played?


And if your response to that is "but I find ZA's gameplay to be more fun blah blah blah", then I regret to inform you that until it's actually fixed, re-logging is part of the game. Deal with it.

And for the record, I don't re-log.

Abusing a known exploit is not a part of the game. Sure, the developers are the first and foremost ones to be blamed, but if for any reason a fix is delayed, then it is upto the players to avoid it themselves, for the sake of the game.

But then again, this kind of reaction is typical to the PvErs who complain about why people hate them for bending the rules to their favor. Since mobs don't openly object or complain to broken things, they really don't seem to have any resistance towards openly abusing broken and bugged things. The "Electrocute fiasco" comes into mind.

Archived Post
11-06-2011, 09:43 PM
So, since the PvE players don't want to go through the trouble of doing things right, and since they don't seem to grab the concept of "you must earn your reward", PvP players are supposed to feel guilty about playing the game by the book, as exactly as it is meant to be played?
It was just a suggestion. You don't have to feel anything about it. The point was: if you choose to play ZA then you choose to live with its flaws. Complaining about the flaws to get them fixed is great, but complaining about people who take advantage of the flaws and don't view the game the same way that you do is just annoying. Ultimately, some people need to just lighten up and find a way to have fun despite what other people are doing. If you can't do that, then there's not much point in playing the game at all. Take me for example. I was a PvEr who was annoyed by random cheese builds ruining games of ZA for any other non-cheese build, so I made a cheese build. Now I'm one of the ones occasionally running around ganking people who have no chance. I realize that it's extremely lame, just as we all realize that re-logging is lame. But at the end of the day, it's just a game that you are supposed to play for fun, and both parties are just playing in a way they find fun.

And on a side note, standing around for 20 mins and/or wasting time re-logging isn't any less "work" to "earn your reward" as any other crap you have to do in any RPG.

Abusing a known exploit is not a part of the game. Sure, the developers are the first and foremost ones to be blamed, but if for any reason a fix is delayed, then it is upto the players to avoid it themselves, for the sake of the game.
The "sake of the game"? That's not a concrete, objective concept. Besides, if the game's welfare is somehow going to be jeopardized by any given bug, then the fallout of people abusing it should theoretically motivate the developers to fix it faster, I would think. If not, then the game probably never had a chance in the first place.

But then again, this kind of reaction is typical to the PvErs who complain about why people hate them for bending the rules to their favor. Since mobs don't openly object or complain to broken things, they really don't seem to have any resistance towards openly abusing broken and bugged things. The "Electrocute fiasco" comes into mind.
The easiest way to motivate more people to object is to get more people to abuse the bug. Shunning the abusers into only using it sparingly will probably ensure that it never gets fixed.

Of course, the point in my two above paragraphs only applies if re-logging is some sort of game-destroying exploit that prevents anyone else from having fun. Which it isn't. I've never seen someone re-logging affect the outcome of a game. 90% of the time they just get killed again, with the others soon joining them. The other times, they were usually pretty useless, and wouldn't have been of any help to the zombies anyway. The few cases where the person was a big help to the survivors, the down-time of the re-log was enough for the zombies to kill a few more and take the game.

Archived Post
11-06-2011, 10:31 PM
ahhaha well said,

I'll never understand the desperate nerd-logic that I'm somehow responsible for other peoples entertainment in a video game. If someone isn't having fun because of what I'm doing or anything else that's happening then they should go do something else.

If you don't like the mechanics of a game don't play it. People aren't obligated to follow any imaginary rules they haven't agreed to unless you can force them.
This is especially true if one player is doing something without regard for another. They're not even trying to mess with mess with the other player. That's all a relogger is doing. maximizing acclaim, playing the side of ZA they enjoy, whatever.

There's this one guy, whom I will not identify, who suicides constantly in ZA so he can snipe as a lone wolf. I don't like what he does and I think it's lame and he's lame but I respect that he's out there doing what he wants to have fun. He's playing within the context of the games ACTUAL mechanics just like the PVE relogger whose trying to scrap by some acclaim. That sharp shooter "messes" with the noob interpretation of what ZA is about way more than any relogger but it's fine.

Archived Post
11-06-2011, 11:03 PM
Whoa whoa, you guys know that goes both ways, right? You think it's within the confines of the game to relog exploit and we shouldn't stop it? Then by your logic, I can use PBR and Mini-gun at the same time since the game allows it and melt your face off and you shouldn't try to stop it, right?

Btw, I'm dusting off my sniper toon as well, so make that two wolves :cool:. This new wave of reloggers will really be raising my kill count.

P.S. I heard of this thing called integrity. Supposedly, its good for ya...

Archived Post
11-06-2011, 11:50 PM
Whoa whoa, you guys know that goes both ways, right? You think it's within the confines of the game to relog exploit and we shouldn't stop it? Then by your logic, I can use PBR and Mini-gun at the same time since the game allows it and melt your face off and you shouldn't try to stop it, right?

Btw, I'm dusting off my sniper toon as well, so make that two wolves :cool:. This new wave of reloggers will really be raising my kill count.

P.S. I heard of this thing called integrity. Supposedly, its good for ya...

Heh, its dejavu. I remember the rabid defenders of Electrocute coming up with the same argument. A lot of PvPers were feeling the same way "What the hell's wrong with using it as it is?". Some high-end, top level PvPers would also just blindly shift over to the new, broken exploit, too.

Ofcourse, there's also the fact that the majority of honest and good willing PvPers were alarmed by its existence, noticed and reported the bug, and urged the developers to fix it. Many players also refused to use Electrocute "FOR THE SAKE OF THE GAME", and generally peer pressure worked somewhat in containing it down to maybe only one or two people blatantly abusing it.

But then again, how many PvEers acknowledged this bug, and agreed that it was a broken power that needed to be fixed? My memory tells me, ZERO. Instead the rants started about how PvP players mess up PvE content... and the usuall load of crap that follows.

One might actually wonder why they call PvPers the ruthless and immoral ones... when in truth, its ALWAYS the PvEers who defend the most broken stuff in the game, everytime.

Archived Post
11-07-2011, 12:38 AM
One might actually wonder why they call PvPers the ruthless and immoral ones... when in truth, its ALWAYS the PvEers who defend the most broken stuff in the game, everytime.

It's cause we the pvpers haven't taught the mobs how to complain (i think qwijybo would be an excellent champion for fixes). Really the pve game is less balanced compared to the pvp game. The claims that certain builds play themselves holds much more water in pve than pvp.

Archived Post
11-07-2011, 02:33 AM
Whoa whoa, you guys know that goes both ways, right? You think it's within the confines of the game to relog exploit and we shouldn't stop it? Then by your logic, I can use PBR and Mini-gun at the same time since the game allows it and melt your face off and you shouldn't try to stop it, right?
Correct. Play the game however you want. If something is broken and needs to be fixed, then like I said, the fastest way to get it fixed is to make sure everyone knows just how broken it is. Exploiting the crap out of it is a good way to accomplish that. Trying to shun everyone into playing the game by your rules and hoping that they fall in line is a horrible way to go about it.

As far as the "electrocute fiasco", I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that electrocute abuse actually did ruin the game for people not abusing it. If that's the case, then it's a completely different situation to begin with. Because like I said, re-logging doesn't affect anyone except the guy doing it.

Archived Post
11-07-2011, 04:02 AM
Correct. Play the game however you want. If something is broken and needs to be fixed, then like I said, the fastest way to get it fixed is to make sure everyone knows just how broken it is. Exploiting the crap out of it is a good way to accomplish that. Trying to shun everyone into playing the game by your rules and hoping that they fall in line is a horrible way to go about it.

As far as the "electrocute fiasco", I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that electrocute abuse actually did ruin the game for people not abusing it. If that's the case, then it's a completely different situation to begin with. Because like I said, re-logging doesn't affect anyone except the guy doing it. Re-logging is how you become friendly to all in nearly every PvP map. With this you can heal your teammates without fear of retribution. Re-logging is how you can negate the player zombies hard-earned kill against 9+ players worth of CC and damage with zero effort over and over again. Re-logging is how you can help make this game's already messed up PvP just that much worse. Your claim that it only affects the one abusing said exploit is laughable.

Archived Post
11-07-2011, 04:12 AM
Whoa whoa, you guys know that goes both ways, right? You think it's within the confines of the game to relog exploit and we shouldn't stop it? Then by your logic, I can use PBR and Mini-gun at the same time since the game allows it and melt your face off and you shouldn't try to stop it, right?
...

You know what, that's a very, very good point. I've held back on a lot of toons, locking myself out of ego storm, dw, geyser, du, stacked minigun,etc. I've got 16 40s, an average of 4 retcons each, and a few million acclaim. And I've had rnough of afk blocking reloggers.

Archived Post
11-07-2011, 07:21 AM
Re-logging is how you become friendly to all in nearly every PvP map. With this you can heal your teammates without fear of retribution. Re-logging is how you can negate the player zombies hard-earned kill against 9+ players worth of CC and damage with zero effort over and over again. Re-logging is how you can help make this game's already messed up PvP just that much worse. Your claim that it only affects the one abusing said exploit is laughable.

We're talking about ZA, not any other PvP mode. I already covered all the reasons why it doesn't matter in ZA. Every re-log is just more kills for the zombie.

Archived Post
11-07-2011, 09:20 AM
Correct. Play the game however you want. If something is broken and needs to be fixed, then like I said, the fastest way to get it fixed is to make sure everyone knows just how broken it is. Exploiting the crap out of it is a good way to accomplish that. Trying to shun everyone into playing the game by your rules and hoping that they fall in line is a horrible way to go about it.

News flash, this isn't my game. It isn't my rules either. I frankly don't care how many times you relog. I'm trying to break my record of 12 kills in one match anyway (It seems Another person has already beaten me to it). What it boils down to is that some people will make an excuse for themselves about how an exploit is "OK" for them to use because they either lack the skill / integrity to accomplish the task legitimately, or they're just plain trolling. Why don't you just be real and admit you're one of these, instead of coming with a pretense that all is justified?

BTW, Talesian hit it right on.
BTW2, has the thought occurred to you that most of the people that kill themselves to be zombie do it BECAUSE of you reloggers? As in, there would be much less /killme if you actually played correctly. Interesting theory, no?

Archived Post
11-07-2011, 09:27 AM
We're talking about ZA, not any other PvP mode. I already covered all the reasons why it doesn't matter in ZA. Every re-log is just more kills for the zombie.

which was kinda how I ended my post previous to the last...

also, for the record, Trill's not a dodge tank nor is she dodge reliant, and I suicided in that match to help the low lvl starting zombie.

the rest I'm not gonna argue w/ yah other than to say that we apparently have a different view of the spirit of the scenario.

Archived Post
11-07-2011, 09:44 AM
BTW2, has the thought occurred to you that most of the people that kill themselves to be zombie do it BECAUSE of you reloggers? As in, there would be much less /killme if you actually played correctly. Interesting theory, no?

They'll just say the opposite is true. It's more of a "He started it! No she started it!" argument the only way to win it is to let Cryptic decide which will probably end in universal butthurt.

Archived Post
11-07-2011, 09:49 AM
News flash, this isn't my game. It isn't my rules either. I frankly don't care how many times you relog. I'm trying to break my record of 12 kills in one match anyway (It seems Another person has already beaten me to it). What it boils down to is that some people will make an excuse for themselves about how an exploit is "OK" for them to use because they either lack the skill / integrity to accomplish the task legitimately, or they're just plain trolling. Why don't you just be real and admit you're one of these, instead of coming with a pretense that all is justified?

BTW, Talesian hit it right on.
BTW2, has the thought occurred to you that most of the people that kill themselves to be zombie do it BECAUSE of you reloggers? As in, there would be much less /killme if you actually played correctly. Interesting theory, no?

Umm maybe because I don't re-log? I'm just an objective third-party witness telling it like it is. Re-logging might be a lame tactic, but it is not a real problem (as you pretty much just said yourself). All you are doing is *****ing because other people have fun in a different way than you do.

Archived Post
11-07-2011, 09:57 AM
They'll just say the opposite is true. It's more of a "He started it! No she started it!" argument the only way to win it is to let Cryptic decide which will probably end in universal butthurt.

That's certainly true and I shouldn't make a generalization like that. I do know that I, as well some people I know ingame and on this forum, only /killme when they see people promoting in zone chat to relog. Anyway, I've already said my share. Why don't I see you on anymore, Sis?? :(


Umm maybe because I don't re-log? I'm just an objective third-party witness telling it like it is. Re-logging might be a lame tactic, but it is not a real problem (as you pretty much just said yourself). All you are doing is *****ing because other people have fun in a different way than you do.

My apologies if that came off as a personal jab at you. It's more so meant as a question to all the reloggers out there, whether you are one or not.

Archived Post
11-07-2011, 07:30 PM
Okay, you want a solution? keep relogging, but cut all the exp and acclaim gains from ZA by 3/4. Tighten up the low end some, but make 1000 acclaim the high end. Watch the desire to relog fade.

they did need to cut acclaim prices, but they didnt need to boost acclaim in ZA nor make the gear OP. the only reason we get relogging, crappy premades, and drama is because people farm it for gear. That's the real issue, so lets tackle this. You give people incentive to game the system, they will.

Archived Post
11-08-2011, 12:00 PM
If relogging in ZA pvp is consider an exploit.Then everything else in this game also consider an exploit too.Let me quote an example ,Mission A offers 10k exp for completing this quest while Mission B offers 20k exp for completing another type of quest.Coz of integrity, I have to take Mission A if not I will lvl up faster than other players when I take Mission B ,and it will be unfair to them.Does that sounds logical?It applies the same situation at ZA pvp.If I'm a zombie player ,after 20 mins of the sessions I get around 2k++ acclaims.If I'm a hero player, I get around 5k++ acclaims after 20 mins of the sessions.Due to integrity, I been random picked as a zombie player ,so I just play along as a zombie for the the duration of 20 mins in order to be fair.Does that sounds logical again?

Archived Post
11-08-2011, 12:43 PM
Why don't I see you on anymore, Sis?? :(

Cause my computer made it into Dell Hell. I've been very patient for 2 months, just submitted BBB complaint this morning. First complaint to them ever. Hahaha.

On the flipside, Dell Hell has been wonderful for my school grades.

Archived Post
11-08-2011, 01:27 PM
If relogging in ZA pvp is consider an exploit.Then everything else in this game also consider an exploit too.Let me quote an example ,Mission A offers 10k exp for completing this quest while Mission B offers 20k exp for completing another type of quest.Coz of integrity, I have to take Mission A if not I will lvl up faster than other players when I take Mission B ,and it will be unfair to them.Does that sounds logical?It applies the same situation at ZA pvp.If I'm a zombie player ,after 20 mins of the sessions I get around 2k++ acclaims.If I'm a hero player, I get around 5k++ acclaims after 20 mins of the sessions.Due to integrity, I been random picked as a zombie player ,so I just play along as a zombie for the the duration of 20 mins in order to be fair.Does that sounds logical again?

Taking a mission that offers higher experience in lieu of one that offers less experience is not an exploit. Working around the mechanics of the game type to gain the desired outcome (which is what relogging in ZA is) is an exploit. Your argument, as presented, holds no water.

Archived Post
11-08-2011, 09:30 PM
If relogging in ZA pvp is consider an exploit.Then everything else in this game also consider an exploit too.Let me quote an example ,Mission A offers 10k exp for completing this quest while Mission B offers 20k exp for completing another type of quest.Coz of integrity, I have to take Mission A if not I will lvl up faster than other players when I take Mission B ,and it will be unfair to them.Does that sounds logical?

No, it sounds stupid. And it is, since it has no relevance to this matter at hand. A better comparison would be the "Siren's Call - bugged XP missions".

Abusing a loophole in the way how CoX spawned mobs and gave out XP according to the size of the team, a full 8-man team would use a certain "reteaming" trick to spawn only a 1 person's worth of mobs in a mission, blow through it within minutes with a full 8-person team, and still get full 8-person's worth of XP for it. As a result, participants of a regular "Siren's Mission Team" would level up at least 3~4 times faster than normal than people who actually played out the mission content as it was supposed to be.

Now, these stinking weasles would come up with the same line of excuse as seen in this thread, praphrasing a certain monopolistic game distrubutior giant by saying, "If it's in the game, it's in the game". Concerned members kept on pointing out that it is not right to abuse an obvious system flaw, but ofcourse, they didn't listen to it.

They even did the, "Don't attack us, we're only here for the XP" when they were inside Siren's.


Anyone in their right mind knows this is a blatant systems exploit, and if Cryptic was more protective and vigilant about keeping the trolls away from their game (like some other game companies), these kinds of abuse would have warranted account bans.


It applies the same situation at ZA pvp.If I'm a zombie player ,after 20 mins of the sessions I get around 2k++ acclaims.If I'm a hero player, I get around 5k++ acclaims after 20 mins of the sessions.Due to integrity, I been random picked as a zombie player ,so I just play along as a zombie for the the duration of 20 mins in order to be fair.Does that sounds logical again?

Your question is innately flawd, in the fact that it assumes "logicity" to an obviously immoral choice. Your question is basically the same thing as;

Question: "I want to drive over to my friend's house as fast as possible. Which is more logical?"

(A) Try and lookup traffic information network and see which roads are clear
(B) Drive through Central Park. Innocent park strollers and pedestrians are just collateral.


Which is more logical?

Archived Post
11-09-2011, 12:07 AM
made me join as zombie 2 minutes in

killed 9 heros in the next 4 or so...

625 acclaim

should are relogged tbh

Archived Post
11-09-2011, 12:38 AM
just got put as zombie again

8 kills in maybe 2 minutes

698 acclaim

yaaa guys don't relog!!!!111

Archived Post
11-09-2011, 01:21 AM
Abusing a loophole in the way how CoX spawned mobs and gave out XP according to the size of the team, a full 8-man team would use a certain "reteaming" trick to spawn only a 1 person's worth of mobs in a mission, blow through it within minutes with a full 8-person team, and still get full 8-person's worth of XP for it. As a result, participants of a regular "Siren's Mission Team" would level up at least 3~4 times faster than normal than people who actually played out the mission content as it was supposed to be.

Now, these stinking weasles would come up with the same line of excuse as seen in this thread, praphrasing a certain monopolistic game distrubutior giant by saying, "If it's in the game, it's in the game". Concerned members kept on pointing out that it is not right to abuse an obvious system flaw, but ofcourse, they didn't listen to it.

They even did the, "Don't attack us, we're only here for the XP" when they were inside Siren's.

Wow... ridiculous. I never played CoX and have no idea what the mission you are talking about is like, but if you are complaining about people leveling up faster in a way that literally does not affect anyone but themselves, you are pathetic. Do you whine whenever people mention Colossus farming as well?

Archived Post
11-09-2011, 04:03 AM
Wow... ridiculous. I never played CoX and have no idea what the mission you are talking about is like, but if you are complaining about people leveling up faster in a way that literally does not affect anyone but themselves, you are pathetic. Do you whine whenever people mention Colossus farming as well?
Wait what rofl?!?!?!?

This is a thread about abusing a relogging exploit in pvp. Someone commented that cheating in pvp is the same as finding the fastest way to level up in pve, basically an argument with no relevence to this discussion. What you quoted was an argument proving how irrelevant that was and your calling them out over farming.

Get some perspective or stop trying to defend things that are broken, either or....

Archived Post
11-09-2011, 06:55 AM
just got put as zombie again

8 kills in maybe 2 minutes

698 acclaim

yaaa guys don't relog!!!!111


698 acclaim for 2 minutes worth of effort... I don't really see what's wrong here. The reward is equal to the challenge and effort involved in aquiring it.

Archived Post
11-09-2011, 07:04 AM
What you quoted was an argument proving how irrelevant that was and your calling them out over farming.

No, actually it was an attempt to turn the irrelevant argument into a relevant one supporting his side. He succeeded in making it relevant, but unfortunately, it supports my side. In both cases, you have people using an exploit of some kind to increase their fun-factor in a way that does not negatively affect anyone else. Now, you can try to argue that ZA re-logging does somehow ruin the fun for people, and we can just agree to disagree. But unless there's something I am missing about that CoX mission (like I said, I never played it), there is literally no possible way that someone else could be affected by people using that exploit. Complaining about that really puts the complainer's argument in "perspective", and just shows that it's someone whining just to whine. Not someone trying to somehow improve the quality of the game.

Archived Post
11-09-2011, 07:25 AM
People who don't enjoy ZA have taken over ZA. Devs please change the VB open mission "I, Zombie" to give out 1 million acclaim per minute so ZA can be PvP again.

Archived Post
11-09-2011, 08:02 AM
No, actually it was an attempt to turn the irrelevant argument into a relevant one supporting his side. He succeeded in making it relevant, but unfortunately, it supports my side. In both cases, you have people using an exploit of some kind to increase their fun-factor in a way that does not negatively affect anyone else. Now, you can try to argue that ZA re-logging does somehow ruin the fun for people, and we can just agree to disagree. But unless there's something I am missing about that CoX mission (like I said, I never played it), there is literally no possible way that someone else could be affected by people using that exploit. Complaining about that really puts the complainer's argument in "perspective", and just shows that it's someone whining just to whine. Not someone trying to somehow improve the quality of the game.
You don't seem to understand the point he is making.

The person they replied to was making a point that has no place in this argument. They attempted to bring it relevance, but it was so far off base it wasn't really comparable, you then called them a whiner for doing so.

Relogging in ZA negatively effects the zombie, and as someone who greatly enjoys playing the zombie, please stop doing it so you can farm acclaim. Learn to play or get the hell out.

Archived Post
11-09-2011, 09:29 AM
People who don't enjoy ZA have taken over ZA. Devs please change the VB open mission "I, Zombie" to give out 1 million acclaim per minute so ZA can be PvP again.

Lol did you get scolded for PvPing in ZA too?

Archived Post
11-09-2011, 09:40 AM
Lol did you get scolded for PvPing in ZA too?


It's like sitting down to a chess game with someone, then they insist the pieces never interact. They just want to move the rooks forward and back for hours a day.

The cake is a lie people, the gear doesn't matter, do something that you actually enjoy.

Archived Post
11-09-2011, 10:12 AM
I really hate the argument of "If you don't like how the game is, don't play it!"

That is just a poor excuse for people to give up on bug fixes and use exploits.

The game can be 99% AMAZING, but if it has a 1% glitch that deletes all your toons if someone uses it on you, that is not fair to anyone. It's not fair to the game, because That glitch isn't a representation of the game. It is just one glitch. It is not fair to the person its being used on, because they pay to have fun, and clearly there not having it. And its not fair to the person using it, because your just pushing people out of the game, making queues longer, lowering PvP population, etc...

When people say exploiting known glitches is a way to get them fixed faster. That is only true if it is a GAME BREAKING glitch. Small glitches like the relogging one won't make anymore splash on the radar and will have negative affects on the player base. Vixy (Whom I miss even though I don't know them well) had a thread explaining it. I'm not going to dig it up because my internet takes about 10 minutes to load each thread.

Archived Post
11-09-2011, 10:12 AM
You don't seem to understand the point he is making.
They attempted to bring it relevance, but it was so far off base it wasn't really comparable
Those two statements are contradictory, FYI. He attempted to bring it to relevance, as in, he changed the original analogy to actually apply to the discussion. But... he was making the point that it (as in, his updated analogy) actually doesn't apply to the discussion? That's your point, not his. Unless he is just really, really bad at trying to convey points. Either way, the fact is that the analogy is relevant to the discussion for the reasons I already explained.

Re-loggers never bother me when I am the zombie; they die too fast for me to notice. Maybe you just need to learn to kill them faster? Regardless, like I said, we can agree to disagree on whether re-logging has any effect on other players. It doesn't affect me, but apparently it affects you. If I haven't said it yet, I am in favor of re-logging being fixed, just because it makes more sense that way. But all this whining about how re-loggers are terrible people who are destroying ZA is just ridiculous.

Archived Post
11-09-2011, 11:12 AM
Those two statements are contradictory, FYI. He attempted to bring it to relevance, as in, he changed the original analogy to actually apply to the discussion. But... he was making the point that it (as in, his updated analogy) actually doesn't apply to the discussion? That's your point, not his. Unless he is just really, really bad at trying to convey points. Either way, the fact is that the analogy is relevant to the discussion for the reasons I already explained.

Re-loggers never bother me when I am the zombie; they die too fast for me to notice. Maybe you just need to learn to kill them faster? Regardless, like I said, we can agree to disagree on whether re-logging has any effect on other players. It doesn't affect me, but apparently it affects you. If I haven't said it yet, I am in favor of re-logging being fixed, just because it makes more sense that way. But all this whining about how re-loggers are terrible people who are destroying ZA is just ridiculous.
You obviously either relog yourself or run one of the more pvp centric builds.

Archetype pvp does not have the luxuries of instagibbing people outside of a few situations, so it certainly ruins at za. On top of this if someone who is playing a dodgetank relogs and you killed them through luck you'd be ****ed off. Its theyre fault they died likely, but they won't make the mistake twice and even if they did they can just relog.

Its an exploit, if you aren't against it, you may as well be supporting it.

Archived Post
11-09-2011, 12:20 PM
Have some dignity. Or is it integrity?

Stop resurrecting yourself in Zombie Apocalypse PvP. Just stop it. Man-up. Own-up. You were killed. Now go eat some brains.


IF some resurrection power is already in your power-set, then rez ONLY YOURSELF.


But if you use devices, or even more cowardly, re-log to switch back to Heroes side, never queu for ZA, and never call yourself 'hero' again.



You defeat the entire purpose of ZA PvP, and make people like me not want to even bother. And it's one of the few things left to do in the game.

Heck yeah! I think that re log is stupid! If you die, so what? If you have a healer who can res you, lucky you! If you have a self res? Lucky you! But if you re log! I hope you get mobbed 20 times over! :mad:

Archived Post
11-09-2011, 05:02 PM
Wow... ridiculous. I never played CoX and have no idea what the mission you are talking about is like, but if you are complaining about people leveling up faster in a way that literally does not affect anyone but themselves, you are pathetic. Do you whine whenever people mention Colossus farming as well?

Actually, what's ridiculous is yourstance on basic morality to abide by the rules of the game.

I wasn't sure at first about just exactly where your personal stance is on concerning this matter, but the above statement more or less makes it clear and self-explanatory. Pathetic? Whine? *snicker*

Archived Post
11-09-2011, 06:08 PM
I really don't understand the acclaim farming by people who hate PvP. The acclaim gear is like 3 points more stats that elite SL blues - and that's on Primaries. If you don't like PvP, just farm SL and be happy.

Archived Post
11-09-2011, 06:15 PM
I really don't understand the acclaim farming by people who hate PvP. The acclaim gear is like 3 points more stats that elite SL blues - and that's on Primaries. If you don't like PvP, just farm SL and be happy.
The problem is they seem to think dieing and relogging is like somekind of bonus pvp, where you win by making the zombie ragequit (http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2011/08/10) :p

Archived Post
11-09-2011, 06:31 PM
Isnt the goal of any PvP match to win ?

The only way for a Zombie player to win is to defeat all of the Heroes.

If the Heroes have infinite "lives" then the Zombie player is denied the fruit of his labor.



How can players on one side cheating to prevent the other side from winning not affect a competitive endeavor ?

Archived Post
11-09-2011, 09:01 PM
How can players on one side cheating to prevent the other side from winning not affect a competitive endeavor ?

Because according to those people, it is only "logical" to play a game for direct profit - ie. "acclaim" - and therefore, just acting according to what profits them most is never something to be criticized, whether or not they exploit a known bug.

And furthermore, PvP players coming to ZA to actually PvP is "illogical", and their attempt to kill surviving heroes is "ganking" and "griefing".

The EXACT reason why I've commented that this IS actually a PvP vs. PvE issue. PvE people come to a PvP session, with the excuse that the only way a PvE player can get high-end gear is to PvP.. and they for some reason believe that makes it OK for them to disregard the rules and everyone should respect their pacifism by not making it hard for them to farm acclaim... and, in order to fight back against the tyranny of PvP players who "grief" the peaceful acclaim farmers (...by doing PvP in a PvP room :rolleyes: ), they "relog".


The logic is as infallible as Titanic..!! :rolleyes:

Archived Post
11-09-2011, 09:27 PM
Just had a ZA where all of us were heroes.

It had the makings of a farm. So...zombified!

You would not believe the fervor two of them had in making sure I never got past the spawnpoint to ruin the acclaim farming.

Archived Post
11-09-2011, 10:18 PM
Because according to those people, it is only "logical" to play a game for direct profit - ie. "acclaim" - and therefore, just acting according to what profits them most is never something to be criticized, whether or not they exploit a known bug.

And furthermore, PvP players coming to ZA to actually PvP is "illogical", and their attempt to kill surviving heroes is "ganking" and "griefing".

The EXACT reason why I've commented that this IS actually a PvP vs. PvE issue. PvE people come to a PvP session, with the excuse that the only way a PvE player can get high-end gear is to PvP.. and they for some reason believe that makes it OK for them to disregard the rules and everyone should respect their pacifism by not making it hard for them to farm acclaim... and, in order to fight back against the tyranny of PvP players who "grief" the peaceful acclaim farmers (...by doing PvP in a PvP room :rolleyes: ), they "relog".


The logic is as infallible as Titanic..!! :rolleyes:

the thing is though they are not wrong in how they view the situation. The system doesnt reward zombies for winning a match. In fact zombies hurt thier own earnings to try and win. they are better off finding a spot to sit and afk and earn easy acclaim to. If the devs had made a system that makes it logical to fight equally hard on each side it would make more sense.

But the fact is if you as zombie attack the living players your only doing it for the sake of attacking them, no reward or gain and in fact a loss to yourself. In most MMO if PVP punishes you and takes away rather then rewards then your clearly griefing.

Hence its not actually wrong to see those who do choose to try and end ZA matches quickly as griefers since most actually Qing for ZA are not there to PVP that is what the other arenas are for pure and simple.

Archived Post
11-09-2011, 11:01 PM
the thing is though they are not wrong in how they view the situation. The system doesnt reward zombies for winning a match. In fact zombies hurt thier own earnings to try and win. they are better off finding a spot to sit and afk and earn easy acclaim to. If the devs had made a system that makes it logical to fight equally hard on each side it would make more sense.

But the fact is if you as zombie attack the living players your only doing it for the sake of attacking them, no reward or gain and in fact a loss to yourself. In most MMO if PVP punishes you and takes away rather then rewards then your clearly griefing.

Hence its not actually wrong to see those who do choose to try and end ZA matches quickly as griefers since most actually Qing for ZA are not there to PVP that is what the other arenas are for pure and simple.

just got put as zombie again

8 kills in maybe 2 minutes

698 acclaim

yaaa guys don't relog!!!!111

700 acclaim for 2 mins is rewarding zombie players, i am fairly sure surviving the 20 mins doesn't give you 7k acclaim.

Archived Post
11-10-2011, 12:18 AM
700 acclaim for 2 mins is rewarding zombie players, i am fairly sure surviving the 20 mins doesn't give you 7k acclaim.

Ive never seen 7k for surviving the full 20 minutes. Close to 6k is about the best Ive seen.

Archived Post
11-10-2011, 12:56 AM
I really don't understand the acclaim farming by people who hate PvP. The acclaim gear is like 3 points more stats that elite SL blues - and that's on Primaries. If you don't like PvP, just farm SL and be happy.

You can get the stats of your choice on them, and can get stuff like str and dex on secondary utilities. Elite SL blues are random, nowhere near as nice with the secondaries, and hard to get multiple stats you want on it. There's no real contest.

And please, Co-PVP never cared about ZA before, or how fair the pvp was. almost every single match before the buff was a farm cause zombie players never stayed. Going the full 20 without a zombie was common, and no one complained about it then cept the few of us unlucky to stay as zombies. Can we be honest and say this is about the acclaim, and has nothing to do with the lack of PvP? PvE players played ZA just as much pre-buff.

Archived Post
11-10-2011, 01:14 AM
You can get the stats of your choice on them, and can get stuff like str and dex on secondary utilities. Elite SL blues are random, nowhere near as nice with the secondaries, and hard to get multiple stats you want on it. There's no real contest.


No contest, of course.
Secondary Purple single stats 36
Secondary Elite Blue single stats 36
Secondary Purple double stats 20/20
Secondary Elite Blue double stats 20/20
Secondary Purple quadruple stats 11/11/10/10
Secondary Elite Blue quadruple stats 11/11/8/8

(all max amounts)

Only things they did right about the secondary gear is drop the price and raise the 4 stat gear higher than blues -_-
The main reason some secondaries are popular is because Ame stuffed up the stat combos on the sections of gear eg. con or pre in sec defense.

Archived Post
11-10-2011, 01:41 AM
No contest, of course.
Secondary Purple single stats 36
Secondary Elite Blue single stats 36
Secondary Purple double stats 20/20
Secondary Elite Blue double stats 20/20
Secondary Purple quadruple stats 11/11/10/10
Secondary Elite Blue quadruple stats 11/11/8/8

(all max amounts)

Only things they did right about the secondary gear is drop the price and raise the 4 stat gear higher than blues -_-
The main reason some secondaries are popular is because Ame stuffed up the stat combos on the sections of gear eg. con or pre in sec defense.

If I may, since I haven't maxed any equipment yet, what's the difference between Secondary Purple single stats 36 and Secondary Elite Blue single stats 36?

Archived Post
11-10-2011, 02:23 AM
If I may, since I haven't maxed any equipment yet, what's the difference between Secondary Purple single stats 36 and Secondary Elite Blue single stats 36?

How you get them.

Archived Post
11-10-2011, 02:43 AM
How you get them.

DING! -cue lightbulb-

Secondary Blue Elite.... as in random secondaries dropping on Elite..... Woooooo, I need sleep bad...

Archived Post
11-10-2011, 04:27 AM
blah blah whine whine
Transparent attempt to twist my words around. Your previous response confirmed what your sig already implied: you are a scrub (http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/intermediates-guide.html). That's pretty much all there is to say.

700 acclaim for 2 mins is rewarding zombie players, i am fairly sure surviving the 20 mins doesn't give you 7k acclaim.
Ideally, the zombie should get even more than that solely because he has to put forth extra effort to actually kill other players... a group of up to 9 of them at once, even. There's no doubt that the ZA scoring is half of the problem here. The zombie has to be several times better than all of the survivors combined to get anywhere near the same acclaim/time as the survivors. Honestly though, time spent should not even be a factor in the reward, only difficulty. Sure, time spent is tied to difficulty because of the nature of ZA, but I just mean that the zombie's reward should not be reduced just to keep the acclaim/time at a arbitrary level. Killing 9 zombies in 2 minutes should net more acclaim than the 5.7k or so that survivors get for winning, because it's by far more difficult. Who cares if it's more than 10 times the acclaim/time? Better players should be rewarded for being better.

As far as acclaim gear farming vs. SL elite blues farming... not only is the acclaim gear technically better, but it's also guaranteed after a certain amount of time. You could farm SL for months and never find a +95 piece, whereas you're guaranteed to get a +98 piece once you hit 150k acclaim, which only takes a few days if you play a few hours a day. And like Jeshu said, some combos only exist in one way. 36pre on a secondary defense can only be gotten on the PvP gear, and on the other hand, 36dex or 20dex/20str on a secondary defense can only be gotten through elite blues.

Archived Post
11-10-2011, 05:40 AM
Ideally, the zombie should get even more than that solely because he has to put forth extra effort to actually kill other players... a group of up to 9 of them at once, even. There's no doubt that the ZA scoring is half of the problem here. The zombie has to be several times better than all of the survivors combined to get anywhere near the same acclaim/time as the survivors. Honestly though, time spent should not even be a factor in the reward, only difficulty. Sure, time spent is tied to difficulty because of the nature of ZA, but I just mean that the zombie's reward should not be reduced just to keep the acclaim/time at a arbitrary level. Killing 9 zombies in 2 minutes should net more acclaim than the 5.7k or so that survivors get for winning, because it's by far more difficult. Who cares if it's more than 10 times the acclaim/time? Better players should be rewarded for being better.


Sounds good in theory, but if you end up getting large amounts for killing everyone as a zombie quickly, people will just exploit to acclaim farm the other way around but 10x quicker.

Archived Post
11-10-2011, 06:28 AM
I don't care what anyone has to say. If I am a zombie, I am going to try and end the match ASAP. If that happens to be in under 2 minutes I don't care. Please feel free to call me what ever you want and be griefed by it. You can even put me on ignore for winning. And If I am a hero I am going to do the SAME EXACT THING (unless of course anyone tries to use the re-log glitch). If you don't like it, well then it sucks to be you.

I have no hard feeling for anyone and I try to stay in a good light, but if being a "turd in the punchbowl" in PvP is your thing, I have no time for you. Its called PvP and I am going to treat it as such. Its nothing personal.

Archived Post
11-10-2011, 03:00 PM
I haven't quite read all the responses, as I aint been around and am now stopping in briefly; got sick of the nonsense of CO PvP, and logged back into FE which recently went F2P, but tonight, that suddenly got old...


Just wanna throw in there, I'm a F2P Soldier AT (sometimes on my Void or Savage tho), and that makes it even WORSE when a $15/month weakling has to exploit cause I bested them.
:p


No excuses!

Archived Post
11-10-2011, 06:21 PM
Killing 9 zombies in 2 minutes should net more acclaim than the 5.7k or so that survivors get for winning, because it's by far more difficult. Who cares if it's more than 10 times the acclaim/time? Better players should be rewarded for being better.
.

In your example better players are already being rewarded for being better.

Survivors who dont last beyond 2 minutes are not getting much acclaim. Multiply that discrepancy by a number of matches and the player skilled enough to do what you describe is getting multiples of the amount of acclaim earned by the less skilled players.

So, if skilled character building and skilled play are already receiving greater potential rewards, what is the real problem there ?

Part of the real, "problem," is that a less skilled player has little or no possibility to earn as much acclaim by being the zombie as he does by being a survivor (where the effect of his weaknesses on acclaim earnings can be offset by the strengths of his allies).

More of the real problem is people willing to cheat to cover up for their inability to win without doing so.


As to the comparison between SL and Acclaim gear.

It takes approximately 11 20 minute ZA matches as a survivor (earning around 5-6k acclaim per mach) to be able to afford a single secondary item.

That is 3 hours and 40 minutes.

In that same time someone could farm more than 60 SL blues. The odds of getting something you want are pretty good, and even if you dont, you will generally be able to sell some of them for enough to afford to buy what you actually want from another player.

Im not trying to say that this is any form of certainty, but its not at all difficult or unlikely.

Archived Post
11-10-2011, 06:41 PM
ZA is a fun idea but there is almost no way to implement it as they wanted without it being easy to "game".

More rewards for zombies? Everyone goes in and lets themselves get eaten for acclaim. No rewards for zombies? People go in and suicide with spike toons even more than they do already (doesn't happen much, unless it's really needed, but it used to happen occasionally just to grief people).

People complaining about the lack of an exit door? Well at least they solved that by the self-rezzing bug! And honestly, while I think it's not being a good sport to leave, nor do I blame them in any way. My main doesn't use, and has never used, STR as a superstat. Which means when I get to be zombie I get hit with about a dozen knock attacks as soon as I'm within 100ft, lying on my back for far longer than any of the old stuns were for (thanks for the new mechanics by the way Cryptic /sarcasm). Which is kinda dumb since when it comes to knocks one person with FG could juggle me to death (new mechanics!), but I suppose everyone wants kill credit. :p

So I can feel their pain certainly.



I mean really ZA could only be remotely feasible if there were no rewards at all beyond action figures or something. But I doubt anyone would bother then. But as it stands it's an acclaim farm. I've never heard it discussed of in any other way. No "I really want to do some ZA today!". Lots of "I need some acclaim so I'll be farming ZA". Mostly because of simple math. You stand a, what, 10% chance of being the zombie and it sucking? And a 90% chance of an almost guaranteed win unless your team are idiots/dedicated pvp spike toon as zombie. Compare that to a SH match that lasts as long or more (if you lose ZA it's usually over in minutes and you can requeue) and if you aren't a pvp toon or are at least used to it, your acclaim gain compared to ZA will be a "tad" lower. I mean, in ZA that supertank will either be on your side and you don't care, or will be the zombie and will likely lack the damage output to do anything but imitate a doorstop. In SH it's going to glue itself to your leader and slowly batter them down while you learn about balance issues through direct observation.

I mean, pick which one you want.

Archived Post
11-10-2011, 06:41 PM
Im not trying to say that this is any form of certainty, but its not at all difficult or unlikely.
Well you did just comment on lack of skill ^^

But its like anything in our lives, humans are generalists, we are good at nothing if compared to other animals, we suck at climbing, running, swimming and can't fly. What we are good is explotating the enviroment, so its only second nature to get the one up on others in a virtual enviroment.

On a less theoretically crazy note, its probably a good laugh. I may rage about aimbots when I play fps, but if I was the one behind the bot I know I would be having a good laugh in their position.
More rewards for zombies? Everyone goes in and lets themselves get eaten for acclaim. No rewards for zombies? People go in and suicide with spike toons even more than they do already (doesn't happen much, unless it's really needed, but it used to happen occasionally just to grief people).
Total acclaim is taken from a pot and shared between survivors, zombies and affected by time survived.

Kill all the survivors in 2 minutes solo? Probably not a good game, everyone gets 500 acclaim.
Someone suicides at the start to kill everyone fast? Zombies 500 acclaim gets cut in two.
Zombie fails to kill anyone? Probably not a good game. Everyone gets reduced acclaim.

There would obviously be hundreds of different technicallities that could be done. Its possible, but in no way ever going to happen.

Archived Post
11-10-2011, 08:35 PM
the thing is though they are not wrong in how they view the situation. The system doesnt reward zombies for winning a match. In fact zombies hurt thier own earnings to try and win. they are better off finding a spot to sit and afk and earn easy acclaim to. If the devs had made a system that makes it logical to fight equally hard on each side it would make more sense.

- How much the reward is balanced between the parties is irrelevant. Stop trying to drag this into a "high profit" vs "low profit" situation, because it is not. The only thing in relevance is that coming back from the dead breaks the game.

- ZA is not an award farm. It is a PvP arena-session. People who play it for the PvP couldn't care less about the acclaim. People are welcome to participate with such purpose but none of such reasons should ever justify a direct exploit of the game.

- It is not to be considered as an option in the first place, and therefore no amount of logic will ever justify it.[/i]


But the fact is if you as zombie attack the living players your only doing it for the sake of attacking them, no reward or gain and in fact a loss to yourself. In most MMO if PVP punishes you and takes away rather then rewards then your clearly griefing.

- The very goal of PvP is to fight, for the sake of the fight. Rewards and perks may be a nice incentive to go for, but in the end people play PvP because it gives them the challenge of combat against other, intelligent people, unlike stupid AI.

- You are saying someone who gets attacked by zombies is being griefed, because they are being robbed of their chance for the acclaim award. A typical self-serving interpretation of PvErs who come to PvP zones for their own profit.

- How many times do we have to repeat this? ZA IS A PVP GAME. It is comprised of two teams, and the goal for each team is to win. The acclaim is the reward for winning - especially the massive reward for the survivors - and if you die, you lose.

- You aren't being robbed of anything. You, lost in the game, so, no reward. How in the world can that ever be considered "griefing"?


Hence its not actually wrong to see those who do choose to try and end ZA matches quickly as griefers since most actually Qing for ZA are not there to PVP that is what the other arenas are for pure and simple.

You want pure and simple? Here's pure and simple:

(1) ZA is a PvP game. You fight for your reward.

(2) If you aren't ready to fight, then stay the #!^%! out of the game.

Archived Post
11-11-2011, 12:44 PM
- How much the reward is balanced between the parties is irrelevant. Stop trying to drag this into a "high profit" vs "low profit" situation, because it is not. The only thing in relevance is that coming back from the dead breaks the game. .

Uh, it matters a lot. I don't play stronghold or high tier utc much because the reward for losing is crap, even to the point of being 0 if you dont have a kill, and believe me, if you are a healer or pve build its easy to get zero. This is why za is played in the first place, even if the heroes lose they get nice acclaim, and this is why people hate the zombie in it.

They do all this fixing, but you still get poor acclaim for being the losing or outmatched side.

Archived Post
11-12-2011, 03:21 AM
Mwa ha ha! This guy said he was relogging to re join hero side today so I got out all of my pets at once, used all of my bag items so I oculd finish off all of the heroes before he made it back on! ;)

Archived Post
11-12-2011, 07:41 AM
Uh, it matters a lot. I don't play stronghold or high tier utc much because the reward for losing is crap, even to the point of being 0 if you dont have a kill, and believe me, if you are a healer or pve build its easy to get zero. This is why za is played in the first place, even if the heroes lose they get nice acclaim, and this is why people hate the zombie in it.

They do all this fixing, but you still get poor acclaim for being the losing or outmatched side.

That's why it's called "Player versus Player", remember?

People fight, whether alone or by teams. They win, the get reward. They lose, no reward. Just which part of that simple truth are you not getting?

If you don't want to play UTC or SH because you think losing it is just a waste of time, that's fine. Your choice. However, ZA is EXACTLY the same, because, again, it is a PVP INSTANCE."

Is it more lenient in dealing out the rewards? Do people flock to ZA because it is so? Whatever reasons they have to come to ZA - yet again - that's all fine. Whatever people are thinking, that's all good and dandy.

Except, in a PvP game other people have no obligations whatsoever to respect whatever personal reasons or expectations people drag in. If that's why people hate the zombie in ZA then its their own screwed up, delusional expectations that's the problem, not the game, nor the zombie players.

...

Let's twist the situation around. PvP players come to participate in normal PvE missions.. maybe something like Nemcon. The PvP players have their own agenda, so they start to play in their own playstyle in a total disregard of how certain instances should be tackled, drawing wrong aggros, using all the PvP flicks and tricks by running around, and then accidentally drawing aggro from every elite grade mob. Bringing in on teamwipe after teamwipe.

...and still this PvP player thinks its fun, since his agenda does not include a successful mission/instance cleared. All he cares is how much fun he personally has, and that's irritatiing as hell for PvE players in general.

How many PvP players do you see doing this? Zero, since anyone who does not respect how a certain playstyle and certain level of cooperation in clearing a mission with a team effort, would be promptly kicked out of the team. Whatever personal agenda or purpose anyone would have, when they agree to team up and go play a PvE mission then there are certain rules that must be followed.

It's basically the same thing. ZA is a PvP. Play it by PvP rules, do not expect anything to be different from any other PvP game and anyone is fine and welcome to play. However, the moment one drags a stupid personal reason or profit into a PvP game and starts thinking its OK to bend rules and use exploits to fullfil it, then they have no place in PvP and should stay out of it.

Archived Post
11-12-2011, 08:28 AM
This is why za is played in the first place, even if the heroes lose they get nice acclaim, and this is why people hate the zombie in it.

You get good acclaim if you are good at PvP, can keep killing the zombie, and thus survive the 20 mins. That's PvP.

Archived Post
11-12-2011, 09:02 AM
*Snip*

I can +1 this whole post.

Though I don't like to think of PvPers and PvEers as different groups. We have similar goals and at the end of the day we all play Champions.

Archived Post
11-12-2011, 01:52 PM
I can +1 this whole post.

Though I don't like to think of PvPers and PvEers as different groups. We have similar goals and at the end of the day we all play Champions.

CO is full of PvEers, CO players who claim to be PvPers are just in denial .

Archived Post
11-12-2011, 02:41 PM
Stuff.

I agree completely, these are all good points. I like PvE, not a big fan of PvP. I hope when I do ZA, on those rare occasions, I'm the survivor and not the initial zombie. If, by some chance I AM the initial starter zombie, I might wait a minute before attempting to kill them. Even then, I start by using what a "not very good PvPer" might do - try to harass a lone wolf into straying a bit too far from the pack, at which point I strike, preferably with some NPC zombies at my back.

I might kill him, I might not. Oh well. Worse-case, after a few minutes and a ton of failed attempts, I might make a plea for assistance from one of the survivors - never know, they might be willing to lend a guy a hand. Worse-case scenario they ***** about how "I should shut up because I suck" or something (yup, totally pure suckitude at PvP with nothing designed to counteract another player, because I don't do PvP.)

Still, it can't be helped. It happens. Sometimes, you have a good day. Other times, it rains on your parade - usually when Dead Poo is flying overhead on his dookieboard.

Archived Post
11-12-2011, 05:43 PM
That's why it's called "Player versus Player", remember?

People fight, whether alone or by teams. They win, the get reward. They lose, no reward. Just which part of that simple truth are you not getting?

If you don't want to play UTC or SH because you think losing it is just a waste of time, that's fine. Your choice. However, ZA is EXACTLY the same, because, again, it is a PVP INSTANCE."

Is it more lenient in dealing out the rewards? Do people flock to ZA because it is so? Whatever reasons they have to come to ZA - yet again - that's all fine. Whatever people are thinking, that's all good and dandy.

Except, in a PvP game other people have no obligations whatsoever to respect whatever personal reasons or expectations people drag in. If that's why people hate the zombie in ZA then its their own screwed up, delusional expectations that's the problem, not the game, nor the zombie players.

...

Let's twist the situation around. PvP players come to participate in normal PvE missions.. maybe something like Nemcon. The PvP players have their own agenda, so they start to play in their own playstyle in a total disregard of how certain instances should be tackled, drawing wrong aggros, using all the PvP flicks and tricks by running around, and then accidentally drawing aggro from every elite grade mob. Bringing in on teamwipe after teamwipe.

...and still this PvP player thinks its fun, since his agenda does not include a successful mission/instance cleared. All he cares is how much fun he personally has, and that's irritatiing as hell for PvE players in general.

How many PvP players do you see doing this? Zero, since anyone who does not respect how a certain playstyle and certain level of cooperation in clearing a mission with a team effort, would be promptly kicked out of the team. Whatever personal agenda or purpose anyone would have, when they agree to team up and go play a PvE mission then there are certain rules that must be followed.

It's basically the same thing. ZA is a PvP. Play it by PvP rules, do not expect anything to be different from any other PvP game and anyone is fine and welcome to play. However, the moment one drags a stupid personal reason or profit into a PvP game and starts thinking its OK to bend rules and use exploits to fullfil it, then they have no place in PvP and should stay out of it.

Then you boot the griefer from the team and continue with 4. If it's prevalent enough, stop doing nemcon or do it only with SG. It's different, because there are not multiple reasons to do it-you all do it only for the reward, while ZA you can do it for the reward or to kill players, and both reasons are valid.

Reward is a valid reason to play any PvP mode, and should be a factor. You really don't have any right to tell people how to play the game or expect them to all follow your desires-some people play to get shinies, and that's all right. Some people play to get perks, some play to kill others, some play to see how much damage they can take, etc. You can't just discount what MOST players play ZA for, the EXP (pre-buff) and now the EXP and acclaim.

If cryptic wants to change stuff, they can. Until then people can play the mode how they want.

Archived Post
11-14-2011, 12:50 PM
You can buy the devices cheaply, and there really aren't any hard or fast rules about logging in ZA period. Nothing is against the rules if you log to avoid being the zombie, use /killme to help the zombie, or just chat while being the zombie to let the players farm for twenty minutes or so.

Yeha it sucks for the zombie players, but so do self-rezzes, which was the OP's point. I wonder why they didn't lock rezzes out, to be honest.

It's a skill, its in the game, and it adds a dynamic. If you cannot work around a dynamic that is a usual part of MMOs and has been for more than a decade, then that's your failing, not the mechanics.

Archived Post
11-19-2011, 07:41 PM
Originally You can buy the devices cheaply, and there really aren't any hard or fast rules about logging in ZA period. Nothing is against the rules if you log to avoid being the zombie, use /killme to help the zombie, or just chat while being the zombie to let the players farm for twenty minutes or so.

Yeha it sucks for the zombie players, but so do self-rezzes, which was the OP's point. I wonder why they didn't lock rezzes out, to be honest.].

1) Gotta agree with you Stag. I dont see what is the hate is for devices. Ive noticed more than one person refer to these items as PVE devices. Oh, REALLY NOW? I notice that you need to level in PVE a bit or gain some preliminary gearing with PVE to be effective as you make your acclaim run. So, why isn't this frowned upon, eh? I dont see devices labelled PVE and if they are currently not disabled, then they are fair game to use anywhere. Quit trying to carve up the game in little slices you like. I hear so much is gamebreaking, but alot is just arbitrary too. If devices were meant to be PVE, they would be locked out and hopefully labelled as such when you earned them.Now, as much as I disagree often with dev choices <imbue is still here, really? > this is one I am glad they made. They even adjust Amazing Grace to cooldown with Masterful dodge. I recall awhile back in tier 2, I was in a lopsided 3 on 1 match and the winning side who continued to farm me called me a cheat for using Heroic Resonance, to gasp, try to stay alive in the three-way, turkey shoot ganking I was receiving.

2) Hmm, I do see a point here. Its not against terms of service. If it was, perhaps one of the GMs would have stepped in by now to say so. So, all you can do here on the forums is appeal to those who may feel tempted to log, or remain dead, or self kill or anything that is deemed 'unsportsmanlike'. People are still going to do whatever they wish to have fun at the expense of others. Sad, but true. If it wasn't we wouldn't even be posting about this.

3) When you can obtain the exact PVP gear in PVE, this will all stop being an issue.

4) If you have a rez power, you are meant to rez in ZA. The end, until I hear from the Powers That Be here.

Archived Post
11-19-2011, 08:01 PM
1) Gotta agree with you Stag. I dont see what is the hate is for devices. Ive noticed more than one person call it PVE devices? REALLY NOW? I notice that you need to level in PVE a bit or gain some preliminary gearing with PVE to be effective as you make your acclaim run. So, why isn't this frowned upon, eh? I dont see devices labelled PVE and if they are currently not disabled, then they are fair game to use anywhere. Quit trying to carve up the game in little slices you like. I hear so much is gamebreaking, but alot is just arbitrary too. Now, as much as I disagree often with dev choices <imbue is still here, really? > this is one I am glad they made. They even adjust Amazing Grace to cooldown with Masterful dodge.

2) Hmm, I do see a point here. Its not against terms of service. If it was, perhaps one of the GMs would have stepped in by now to say so. So, all you can do here on the forums is appeal to those who may feel tempted to log, or remain dead, or self kill or anything that is deemed 'unsportsmanlike'. People are still going to do whatever they wish to have fun at the expense of others. Sad, but true. If it wasn't we wouldn't even be posting about this.

3) When you can obtain the exact PVP gear in PVE, this will all stop being an issue.

4) If you have a rez power, you are meant to rez in ZA. The end, until I hear from the Powers That Be here.

Rezzing with a power is fine, since your handicapping your self with a power choice. But a device? Devices have no place in PvP and we all know it. Even if the DEVs "allow" it to be in the game that doesn't mean it should be. Some devices give serious advantages like archers memory and the stupid elixir.

People say, "Everyone can get them so its fair!" and I say wrong. They make PvP even more "copy and paste" then it already is. If everyone was using devices then we would be essentially the same. Devices destroy diversity. You can't get every power in the game for a reason. Only using powers makes you have a more fair and balanced build (I know builds in CO aren't really fair and balanced). devices break that even more, including rez devices.

If you absolutely have to use devices in PvP, then your a scrub simple as that. It just means you obviously couldn't win with out the odds stacked to your side.

Archived Post
11-19-2011, 08:22 PM
Rezzing with a power is fine, since your handicapping your self with a power choice. But a device? Devices have no place in PvP and we all know it. Even if the DEVs "allow" it to be in the game that doesn't mean it should be. Some devices give serious advantages like archers memory and the stupid elixir.

People say, "Everyone can get them so its fair!" and I say wrong. They make PvP even more "copy and paste" then it already is. If everyone was using devices then we would be essentially the same. Devices destroy diversity. You can't get every power in the game for a reason. Only using powers makes you have a more fair and balanced build (I know builds in CO aren't really fair and balanced). devices break that even more, including rez devices.

If you absolutely have to use devices in PvP, then your a scrub simple as that. It just means you obviously couldn't win with out the odds stacked to your side.

"We all know it?" How? You got some evidence or is this just one of those gut feelings or intuition things? This is not a blast of sarcasm, I actually want to know.

The devs still run the game, thus if they allow it, it's meant to be or overlooked <Rad/Tox barrels anyone?> but devices have been mentioned one too many times for it not looked upon by someone who runs this game. Do I like a lot of what happens? Sometimes. Do I have to live with it. YES.

The 'arbitrary cheese line' can only be drawn by the people who run the game. Not by players. If its in -now- all you can really do is throw up your hands and let it ride.. oh and blast others who use them. Other than that, not a thing. Calling people scrubs is really not going to change the fact that its currently allowed. Until a GM/Dev chimes in on the official stance, like I said before, gotta let it ride.

Hey post a Youtube video or something about it and maybe it might be changed quick? That seems to work famously.

Archived Post
11-20-2011, 12:54 AM
If you absolutely have to use devices in PvP, then your a scrub simple as that. It just means you obviously couldn't win with out the odds stacked to your side.

Holier-than-thou attitudes like these coming from PVP'ers works wonders for the community's reputation. :rolleyes:

Archived Post
11-20-2011, 02:14 AM
"We all know it?" How? You got some evidence or is this just one of those gut feelings or intuition things? This is not a blast of sarcasm, I actually want to know.

The devs still run the game, thus if they allow it, it's meant to be or overlooked <Rad/Tox barrels anyone?> but devices have been mentioned one too many times for it not looked upon by someone who runs this game. Do I like a lot of what happens? Sometimes. Do I have to live with it. YES.

The 'arbitrary cheese line' can only be drawn by the people who run the game. Not by players. If its in -now- all you can really do is throw up your hands and let it ride.. oh and blast others who use them. Other than that, not a thing. Calling people scrubs is really not going to change the fact that its currently allowed. Until a GM/Dev chimes in on the official stance, like I said before, gotta let it ride.

Hey post a Youtube video or something about it and maybe it might be changed quick? That seems to work famously.

With out the players you don't have much of a game do you? You give WAY to much power to the DEVs. Yes, it is there game. Yes, they can do what they want. No, they don't have a job with out us.

Even if the DEVs have said, "No, we think this is not an issue" and 90% of the players say it is, then it is an issue. I know plenty of people who simply stopped playing back when the PvP queue was destroyed. If players leave because of an issue the DEVs won't recognize, who feels it the most? The player is just going to play something else. The DEVs will be out of a job.

Holier-than-thou attitudes like these coming from PVP'ers works wonders for the community's reputation. :rolleyes:

Even though I'm sure only the people who disagree with me are going to respond, a lot of people don't like devices in PvP. I even think some of the people who respond don't, at least a little.

And good thing I posted this in the PvP section, were PvPers come to read about PvP! :rolleyes:

Archived Post
11-20-2011, 04:26 AM
Even if the DEVs "allow" it to be in the game that doesn't mean it should be.

I'm going to have to disagree here.

If the people who run the game, representing the people who own the game, say its how they want it to be, then thats how it should be.

Now that may not be good for the growth of the game in the long run, who knows, but that is irrelevant as the owners of a property have the right to make decisions for their property, even if their preference goes against their own best interest.

Archived Post
11-20-2011, 05:39 AM
I'm going to have to disagree here.

If the people who run the game, representing the people who own the game, say its how they want it to be, then thats how it should be.

Now that may not be good for the growth of the game in the long run, who knows, but that is irrelevant as the owners of a property have the right to make decisions for their property, even if their preference goes against their own best interest.

So you would rather just accept that there are problems with the game, and if the powers at be say it's ok, live with it knowing that things could be better?

I agree that if you want to shoot yourself in the foot, then be my guest. I just can't see justifying something when everyone benefits negatively. No one wins. We all should be losers?

Archived Post
11-20-2011, 06:45 AM
Even though I'm sure only the people who disagree with me are going to respond, a lot of people don't like devices in PvP. I even think some of the people who respond don't, at least a little.


Considering that Devices have...

1) Limited uses and/or

2) Long cooldown times (IHeroic Resonance being a good example)

...I don't even see what the problem is with Devices.

I like how you have this omniscience that a lot of people don't like devices in PVP. You went to the extent of saying "we all know it" and 90% of players think it's an issue. Really? Where did you pull that magical statistic from?

Archived Post
11-20-2011, 07:11 AM
Considering that Devices have...

1) Limited uses and/or

2) Long cooldown times (IHeroic Resonance being a good example)

...I don't even see what the problem is with Devices.

I like how you have this omniscience that a lot of people don't like devices in PVP. You went to the extent of saying "we all know it" and 90% of players think it's an issue. Really? Where did you pull that magical statistic from?
From this comment alone you obviously don't know very much about the devices used in pvp. There used to be (got nefred a bit) a device that could deal 4000+ damage outright which could not be dodged at all. That was an absolute b*tch to fight against if you weren't using one yourself.

Archived Post
11-20-2011, 07:17 AM
From this comment alone you obviously don't know very much about the devices used in pvp. There used to be (got nefred a bit) a device that could deal 4000+ damage outright which could not be dodged at all. That was an absolute b*tch to fight against if you weren't using one yourself.

And one single broken device means "Ban Devices from PVP entirely!".

Honestly 4k? That's it? Does it have a cooldown? I've come across builds that output way more than 4k damage within seconds, but then again that's an entirely different problem with PVP isn't it?

Archived Post
11-20-2011, 08:04 AM
And one single broken device means "Ban Devices from PVP entirely!".

Honestly 4k? That's it? Does it have a cooldown? I've come across builds that output way more than 4k damage within seconds, but then again that's an entirely different problem with PVP isn't it?
Its a problem when its a spike ontop of other damage, especially when avenger and guardian toons without SS Con have only around 4 - 6k health, with avengers having almost 0% additional mitigation.

I also didn't say it was the only device, there are plenty of other devices which are good with low cooldowns, hell even stims are decent at some levels of pvp.

Archived Post
11-20-2011, 08:50 AM
Its a problem when its a spike ontop of other damage, especially when avenger and guardian toons without SS Con have only around 4 - 6k health, with avengers having almost 0% additional mitigation.

I also didn't say it was the only device, there are plenty of other devices which are good with low cooldowns, hell even stims are decent at some levels of pvp.

Which all have cooldowns so that they can't be spammed. That's the trade-off from using them. I'm not seeing the rationale in having them barred from being used in PVP.

I think toons without SS Con and running an offensive passive have plenty more to worry about than a damage device with cooldown.

Archived Post
11-20-2011, 09:30 AM
Which all have cooldowns so that they can't be spammed. That's the trade-off from using them. I'm not seeing the rationale in having them barred from being used in PVP.

I think toons without SS Con and running an offensive passive have plenty more to worry about than a damage device with cooldown.

I gotta go with the person that doesn't understand that the dev's don't read this board's threads randomly for suggestions (srsly, don't sweat it, pay more attention to things that go on in the PTS boards, that's where things tend to happen that matter).

not sure when this worked its way into a purely device convo, but... yea, I get that there are some devices that can kinda be ... interesting to face. but, heroic resonance, blood moon devices, and serums aren't on my personal list of things to worry about, and I play mostly squishies. and hero games stims, well, if you pvp to get 'em, then I can't find an issue. sry :o

Archived Post
11-20-2011, 10:34 AM
If you absolutely have to use devices in PvP, then your a scrub simple as that. It just means you obviously couldn't win with out the odds stacked to your side.

If you get upset about equally available devices/ability being used, you suffer from delusions of self importance pertaining to to how your preference of play should determine what others should do. You may as well complain about every person who utilizes a power, ability, or drop that you don't have. Devices are part of the game. Deal with it.

Archived Post
11-20-2011, 04:37 PM
I am all for all devices being used :p

Archived Post
11-20-2011, 07:48 PM
I am all for all devices being used :p
This brings to mind the quote:
"Don't bring a knife to a gun fight."

/signed for device use in PvP
(Yes, i read the whole thread. No i don't care about self rezzing in ZA...)

Archived Post
11-20-2011, 08:16 PM
So you would rather just accept that there are problems with the game, and if the powers at be say it's ok, live with it knowing that things could be better?

I agree that if you want to shoot yourself in the foot, then be my guest. I just can't see justifying something when everyone benefits negatively. No one wins. We all should be losers?

I was specifically referring to the point about how things, "should," be.

Things should be how the owners want them to be when it comes to private property.

Now, its our job to make the owners want things to be the way we want them to be. We do that by making it clear that we as paying customers feel that certain changes are in order if they want us to continue to be paying customers.

On the other hand, I dont personally have a problem with devices in PvP.

Archived Post
11-20-2011, 09:36 PM
Complaining about devices in PVP is akin to going to an old western duel and insisting your opponent refrain from wearing his holster that day. Patently ridicuolous.

Archived Post
11-21-2011, 04:58 AM
If you get upset about equally available devices/ability being used, you suffer from delusions of self importance pertaining to to how your preference of play should determine what others should do. You may as well complain about every person who utilizes a power, ability, or drop that you don't have. Devices are part of the game. Deal with it.

Slow your role. If you would take the time to read some of my other posts you would find out why I think "equally available" devices are really not that equal. NO you cant have every single OP power on your bar at once. YES you can have what ever device you want on your bar. And it's part of the game, deal with it? That's the argument exploiters use when they find a glitch or bug they like. Take a step back and focus on moving forward, because, "dealing with it" is how things stay bugged or broken.

I like how you have this omniscience that a lot of people don't like devices in PVP. You went to the extent of saying "we all know it" and 90% of players think it's an issue. Really? Where did you pull that magical statistic from?

Well I guess I was wrong. People in this thread don't seem to mind devices. And that 90% was just a reference, not a statistic. Don't attach two of my posts together then call me out on pulling up random statistics.

I guess times change. You used to almost get death threats for using devices in PvP but I guess now a days with CTPs, the easily farmed blood moon, and weak ATs devices seem to fit right in I guess. Apologies.

I just remember a certain Shin midget that would farm for weeks to get the cheapest devices and then come to a fight and **** everyone off. I guess that's ok now?

Archived Post
11-21-2011, 06:14 AM
I think it's more a lot of PvP'ers found ways around certain devices/certain ones got nerfed. I'll use them in regular PvP matches, but if the rules state no devices I'm down with that, too. They are, after all, designed as part of the game and need effort (or G) to acquire.

Archived Post
11-21-2011, 07:51 AM
I think it's more a lot of PvP'ers found ways around certain devices/certain ones got nerfed. I'll use them in regular PvP matches, but if the rules state no devices I'm down with that, too. They are, after all, designed as part of the game and need effort (or G) to acquire.
This, whilst they aren't devices (or they were, I dunoo, I wasnt playing t4 then but I heard the complaints) I remember catalyst gear getting a serious following in the rage category till they got nerfed.

Archived Post
11-21-2011, 12:05 PM
This, whilst they aren't devices (or they were, I dunoo, I wasnt playing t4 then but I heard the complaints) I remember catalyst gear getting a serious following in the rage category till they got nerfed.
Catalyst gear wasn't a device, it was just overpowered in its own special way.

Archived Post
11-21-2011, 07:18 PM
I just remember a certain Shin midget that would farm for weeks to get the cheapest devices and then come to a fight and **** everyone off. I guess that's ok now?

The one you speak of got the elixer on his 1st run and was exploiting the use of it, cryptic has since fixed the exploit he was using.

Archived Post
11-21-2011, 07:29 PM
Here's my stand on ZA:

If you use a rez power...hey, goody for you. Not many people have those powers because they are so freakin' worthless. So, if this one time, it helps you...well, you deserve something for taking such a limited utility power.

If you use a rez potion....good job planning ahead. If you're willing to trade crafting mats or resources for acclaim, I'm not going to stop you.

If you have a teammate who can rez you, again, good job. I'm totally okay with people using powers the way they are supposed to be used even if they have effects which work to my detriment :D

If you relog...you are a moron and an exploiter. If I am not the zombee, I will suicide and join the zombeez. I will hunt you down. I will kill you. Repeatedly. There is even a good chance I'll switch over to one of my nukers for the rest of the night and do nothing but trash you over and over again as a zombee.

And trust me, my ability to wreck your night far exceeds any potential benefit you might get from cheating. So while I cannot stop you from being an exploiting idiot, I can totally make it not worth your while.

Archived Post
11-21-2011, 08:11 PM
...trust me, my ability to wreck your night far exceeds any potential benefit you might get from cheating.
So while I cannot stop you from being an exploiting idiot, I can totally make it not worth your while.
Dude, that's so full of quote worthy awsomesauce :eek:
/golfclap :D

Archived Post
11-21-2011, 08:34 PM
Telling people not to use powers on their powerset is a bit...well ima not gonna say what I think of that.

If you dont like it get some rez powers or rez pots do it back ^___^

Everyone has access to rez powers one way or another.

Archived Post
11-21-2011, 08:42 PM
Here's my stand on ZA:

If you use a rez power...hey, goody for you. Not many people have those powers because they are so freakin' worthless. So, if this one time, it helps you...well, you deserve something for taking such a limited utility power.

Player takes a loss in a power <that could be just a dangum heal, you know?> hoping for the best when they do rise.

If you use a rez potion....good job planning ahead. If you're willing to trade crafting mats or resources for acclaim, I'm not going to stop you.

Another type of loss. Material, stuff you need to grind for. Makes sense.

If you have a teammate who can rez you, again, good job. I'm totally okay with people using powers the way they are supposed to be used even if they have effects which work to my detriment :D

Tactics rearing its ugly head here.

If you relog...you are a moron and an exploiter. If I am not the zombee, I will suicide and join the zombeez. I will hunt you down. I will kill you. Repeatedly. There is even a good chance I'll switch over to one of my nukers for the rest of the night and do nothing but trash you over and over again as a zombee.
And trust me, my ability to wreck your night far exceeds any potential benefit you might get from cheating. So while I cannot stop you from being an exploiting idiot, I can totally make it not worth your while.

Righteous indignation. Be warned.

Nothing I can't disagree with here. Good one.

Archived Post
11-22-2011, 01:33 AM
...If you relog...you are a moron and an exploiter. If I am not the zombee, I will suicide and join the zombeez. I will hunt you down. I will kill you. Repeatedly. There is even a good chance I'll switch over to one of my nukers for the rest of the night and do nothing but trash you over and over again as a zombee.

And trust me, my ability to wreck your night far exceeds any potential benefit you might get from cheating. So while I cannot stop you from being an exploiting idiot, I can totally make it not worth your while.

Well said, I couldn't agree more.

Archived Post
11-22-2011, 04:42 AM
Here's my stand on ZA:

If you use a rez power...hey, goody for you. Not many people have those powers because they are so freakin' worthless. So, if this one time, it helps you...well, you deserve something for taking such a limited utility power.

If you use a rez potion....good job planning ahead. If you're willing to trade crafting mats or resources for acclaim, I'm not going to stop you.

If you have a teammate who can rez you, again, good job. I'm totally okay with people using powers the way they are supposed to be used even if they have effects which work to my detriment :D

If you relog...you are a moron and an exploiter. If I am not the zombee, I will suicide and join the zombeez. I will hunt you down. I will kill you. Repeatedly. There is even a good chance I'll switch over to one of my nukers for the rest of the night and do nothing but trash you over and over again as a zombee.

And trust me, my ability to wreck your night far exceeds any potential benefit you might get from cheating. So while I cannot stop you from being an exploiting idiot, I can totally make it not worth your while.

Well said good sir !

Archived Post
11-22-2011, 07:09 AM
Here's my stand on ZA:

If you use a rez power...hey, goody for you. Not many people have those powers because they are so freakin' worthless. So, if this one time, it helps you...well, you deserve something for taking such a limited utility power.

If you use a rez potion....good job planning ahead. If you're willing to trade crafting mats or resources for acclaim, I'm not going to stop you.

If you have a teammate who can rez you, again, good job. I'm totally okay with people using powers the way they are supposed to be used even if they have effects which work to my detriment :D

If you relog...you are a moron and an exploiter. If I am not the zombee, I will suicide and join the zombeez. I will hunt you down. I will kill you. Repeatedly. There is even a good chance I'll switch over to one of my nukers for the rest of the night and do nothing but trash you over and over again as a zombee.

And trust me, my ability to wreck your night far exceeds any potential benefit you might get from cheating. So while I cannot stop you from being an exploiting idiot, I can totally make it not worth your while.

Yeah, just going to join the chorus here and say this sums up everything perfectly. If it's in the game, and designed to work in such situations, it's not really an exploit - asking people to not do it would be like asking that guy to not use Dragon's Wrath, or that other guy to not use Invulnerability or Defiance, or that other other guy to use BCR+RR+MD.

Archived Post
11-22-2011, 11:07 AM
Have some dignity. Or is it integrity?

Stop resurrecting yourself in Zombie Apocalypse PvP. Just stop it. Man-up. Own-up. You were killed. Now go eat some brains.


IF some resurrection power is already in your power-set, then rez ONLY YOURSELF.


But if you use devices, or even more cowardly, re-log to switch back to Heroes side, never queu for ZA, and never call yourself 'hero' again.



You defeat the entire purpose of ZA PvP, and make people like me not want to even bother. And it's one of the few things left to do in the game.



EDIT: Wanted to add that I'm F2P. It's REALLY pathetic when the re-loggers and self-rez device users are also paying $15 more a month than I am. Seriously. Have some dignity.

(you'll notice I have no problem with people SELF-rezzing with powers, since they invested actual build points into that)

I have done this reloging in ZA a few time, only because of game freeze or a respawn bug wont let me respawn. If I do come back as a living hero I well let the zombies or a dead hero kill me. I think once you log out while in ZA you sould respawn else where (back to a map such as MC).

Archived Post
12-04-2011, 09:01 PM
You this old topic right?

Archived Post
12-05-2011, 04:59 AM
Heh) I guess the only thing will fix that situation - FULL REMADE!

1. ALL players will change their look and powers as Until soldiers or something like that.
2. ALL zombie players will use the same powers as zombie NPC.

That will be a REAL PvP.
All have a chances to win - all pleased.

There's will be no need to relog or use self-ez devices, becouse they will disabled.

Archived Post
12-05-2011, 07:15 PM
Heh) I guess the only thing will fix that situation - FULL REMADE!

1. ALL players will change their look and powers as Until soldiers or something like that.
2. ALL zombie players will use the same powers as zombie NPC.

That will be a REAL PvP.
All have a chances to win - all pleased.

There's will be no need to relog or use self-ez devices, becouse they will disabled.

But I want to use the powers I chose.

Archived Post
12-06-2011, 01:06 PM
Devices should ALL be disabled, period.
I don't see why some can have 5 skillsets and a regular player only one.

That being said, self-rez power(s) do take a slot in your skill bar, so you can't have something else.
You killed them once, kill them again. Raging against Devices, ok, I can get, but not against a selected power.

As for the relog, well those maps should simply not allow it. Disable the function that relogs you into the previous instance. Yes, I know some people are unlucky, happens to me sometimes. But if you advertise that the map is DC intolerant, well, enter who will, right?

I'm inclined to agree with this, especially the instant kill sniper rifle device... Totally broken in the extreme, and it will be nerfed in time once everybody starts exploiting the hell out of it. Exploiting, whether by exploiting a glitched item, or by re-logging, is cheating; I agree.


Everybody has the same number of powers, talents, superstats, and travel powers at level 40. If it's up to you to choose which powers your going to use. Whatever those are, in unrestricted PvP, is entirely up to you to decide. (and in teamplay instances like ZA, it's about working as a team)

Yes it's hard for the original zombie to get started, but it's supposed to be! Act like a predator and kill the weak prey first -- use good timing (i.e.: learn some patience and how to watch for cues) and cunning combo attacks.


As to the topic starter complaining about players using a resurrection or self-resurrection power. Get over yourself and stop whining please... If that's their ace-in-the-hole special move for when you killed them, then you're either going to have to kill them again quickly while they are on cooldown or try another target. Change your tactics then. You also cannot be expected to win every battle you know, there are some battles you just can't win (that said, keep trying different tactics because if you do succeed against impossible odds then it gives you a true accomplishment you can be proud of).

By definition, insanity can be described as repeating the same process in the exact same method expecting results to just change for no reason. If plan A isn't working, figure out why and come up with a new plan.


Heh) I guess the only thing will fix that situation - FULL REMADE!

1. ALL players will change their look and powers as Until soldiers or something like that.
2. ALL zombie players will use the same powers as zombie NPC.

That will be a REAL PvP.
All have a chances to win - all pleased.

There's will be no need to relog or use self-ez devices, becouse they will disabled.

This would be a fun alternative to add. Although it kind of already exists in part, with Archetype-only ZA.

Archived Post
12-08-2011, 08:36 AM
I

As to the topic starter complaining about players using a resurrection or self-resurrection power. Get over yourself and stop whining please...

Actually, I don't say that. At all.

I explicitly said it's understandable if you actually invested points into an actual self-rez power, to use that power, at least on yourself. (Then I added that point again, in an edit.)

Maybe you should get over your self. Or read more closely.


--------------------------



On another note, it's interesting how many in this thread apparently don't seem to think there's a significant difference in the nature of ZA than all other of CO's PvP.

IMO, the whole "one kill" thing completely changes the entire dynamic. Only needing 1 kill. That's it. That's why the whole thing is different, and why circumstances should dictate no exploits or gimmicks to cheat that one, all-important aspect of ZA.


Anyhow, at least pretty much everyone can agree that intentional re-loggers are the slime of the earth.

:mad:

Archived Post
12-09-2011, 11:25 PM
Just maxed my 5th toon, Devastator. (fun build IMO)


Anyhow, just entered ZA. Re-logging is rampant. I think every match, people (plural) were doing it. What a joke. What's even the point anymore?

Archived Post
12-09-2011, 11:34 PM
(Then I added that point again, in an edit.)

Keywords... My bad for not re-reading then I guess


Anyhow, at least pretty much everyone can agree that intentional re-loggers are the slime of the earth.

:mad:

Sure, but you should be aware that it also goes both ways.

It's become a trolling fad for some to have an entire team of people three to five buddies go zombie intentionally right at the start. (when I say it's intentional, I mean that they will literally stand way out of the hemisphere zone, right were the zombies are spawning, don't fight back or block, and even if you protect them and heal them so they don't die, they will /killme) So yeah, they are despicable, but in fact the people going zombie intentionally are being far more harmful to the other players in the server.

Archived Post
12-10-2011, 04:54 AM
There are still players who do the right thing and stay zombiie and fight hard the entire time, even facded with a stout defense. And I thank those players in zone chat for that.

Relogging sucks, just dont do it.

Archived Post
12-10-2011, 06:30 AM
It's become a trolling fad for some to have an entire team of people three to five buddies go zombie intentionally right at the start. (when I say it's intentional, I mean that they will literally stand way out of the hemisphere zone, right were the zombies are spawning, don't fight back or block, and even if you protect them and heal them so they don't die, they will /killme) So yeah, they are despicable, but in fact the people going zombie intentionally are being far more harmful to the other players in the server.


I agree, and I've experienced this as well. And like the re-loggers, there are players who often do this enough that I know who they are by name.

What's even better, one of those may be a poster on these forums, since they're vocal on the COPvP chat, and after I called them out for doing that wussy crap, he got all mad and blamed me for 'whining.' Ironic, huh?


:D

Archived Post
12-10-2011, 06:46 AM
It's become a trolling fad for some to have an entire team of people three to five buddies go zombie intentionally right at the start. (when I say it's intentional, I mean that they will literally stand way out of the hemisphere zone, right were the zombies are spawning, don't fight back or block, and even if you protect them and heal them so they don't die, they will /killme)

HOOOOOOGGGG! I miss those guys :( but, yah, if your join date is accurate (and you're not a former player with a new handle, it happens), I'd just like to assure you that that's not new.

So yeah, they are despicable, but in fact the people going zombie intentionally are being far more harmful to the other players in the server.

well, that depends. next time you're in a match, check the lvl of the starting zombie (hit 'O' or click Social). if I'm in a match starting as a hero, surrounded by all sorts of aopm and idf awesomeness, and the starting zombie is lvl 32? yah, you prolly got about 5 mins on the outside 'til I keel over and respawn. harmful? well, depends on what you call harmful. the lvl 32 guy not bothering to log the pvp queue again for a match 'cause s/he got ganked repeatedly outside the bubble by fully tricked out toons (often while being encouraged to just relog while also being verbally attacked for playing the scenario in the manner intended)? yah, that'd be harmful.

Archived Post
12-10-2011, 11:12 AM
so Lohr and Xavori got banned?

anyone know why lol

Archived Post
12-10-2011, 11:23 AM
so Lohr and Xavori got banned?

anyone know why lol
Lohr was to do with grab bags I think.

Can't remember about Xavori though, he posted something mean :p

Archived Post
12-10-2011, 12:29 PM
Lohr was to do with grab bags I think.

Can't remember about Xavori though, he posted something mean :p

heh, I doubt Xav posted anything worse than I ever had. Not a fan of him getting banned, though spectre knows I dislike them all personally.Sometimes you have to put that aside for the greater good. It's jus from the official forums though, not from the game i think.

Archived Post
12-10-2011, 01:40 PM
You defeat the entire purpose of ZA PvP, and make people like me not want to even bother. And it's one of the few things left to do in the game.

Sounds to me everyday that the zombie side of ZA makes everyone feel the way you do about not playing the game. The issue is at the core of the gameplay, if there is a means to circumvent boring frustrating not worth the effort gameplay, it will be taken.

In this game there are no heroes, most players will pass you by as you bleed out and are overwhelmed by mobs.
Hell they'll duel challenge children size/themed characters five levels under them at the bank!

Archived Post
12-10-2011, 01:43 PM
heh, I doubt Xav posted anything worse than I ever had. Not a fan of him getting banned, though spectre knows I dislike them all personally.Sometimes you have to put that aside for the greater good. It's jus from the official forums though, not from the game i think.

You dislike all of SPECTRE? Why?

Archived Post
12-10-2011, 01:50 PM
You dislike all of SPECTRE? Why?

Not going to rehash it on the forums, I only mention it to say I'm not supporting Xav because I'm in the same set of people. Some stuff is personal and shouldn't be used to justify bad decision making in terms of bans.

Archived Post
12-10-2011, 03:32 PM
You dislike all of SPECTRE? Why?

meh, he put me on ignore while telling me he was sure I was a nice guy, even sent me a pm to let me know ahead of time. of course, I couldn't respond to the pm to say there were no hard feelings heh

Archived Post
12-10-2011, 11:39 PM
Xav got himself banned? For what?

I find that odd. I've had him on my ignore list for a powerset argument since like the first week I ever heard of him personally, but not because of any personal trouble, nor have I heard of any really with anyone else excepting the jackwagons everyone hates (for those curious, we had an ongoing argument about, at the time, a pure electric's performance in endgame pvp; I thought it could use some help - it was right after the melee pass - Xav said they were great, and long story short I finally ran into his "pure electric toon" of which I only ever saw use imbue+primal sigils; neither of which is actually in the electric tree, so I put em on ignore so I didn't get tempted to go even further into that dumb argument since we obviously didn't define "electric" in the same terms).

I should also note I've never run a full electric toon in endgame pvp, so it didn't even really matter for me. What can I say, it was a slow day.




Okay, now my post is more explaining why I had him on ignore than anything else, thbbt. Point I was TRYING to make was he always seemed well tempered, I'm suprised.

Lohr too, for that matter. I'll go right ahead and say those two posted a lot more than others, for better or worse, and I wouldn't be suprised if that had an effect in whatever went down and punishment thereof.

Archived Post
12-11-2011, 12:46 AM
I agree that anything related to bringing someone back to life should be disabled in Hero Games, especially Zombie Apocalypse. In addition, players trying to relog after being killed should not only be unable to join the event, but also disqualified from joining further Hero Games for the next 30 minutes. It's only fair. It's the punishment for trying to cheat the system.

Archived Post
12-11-2011, 01:16 AM
If you don't fight and/or don't want to fight don't play Hero Games. Enforce this by rules. Relog in za when killed by zombie = 30 min Hero Game boot. Staying dead while spamming zone for ress can be countered by a 10 sec defeat timer that auto-recovers upon expiry. In fact an auto-recover should be for all HGs.

I know many of these za reloggers/waiting several minutes for ress are only doing it for acclaim for gear. They don't want to PvP. Acclaim gear should ONLY be acquired after actually pvping, not afking in hero games. That's why it is acclaim gear and not from pve.

PvP and reaping the rewards should be about fighting. Nothing else. Because, many enjoy the actual pvp and don't care about rewards, or have them already. We queue pvp to pvp. To fight other players. Nothing else. Please, add mechanics that enforce the simple principle of "Fight or don't join".

Archived Post
12-11-2011, 07:22 AM
Yeah, being the only starting zombie against a horde of 15 players who all clump up sucks. Especially if you're a squishy. Relogging sucks too. Solution: why the hell don't they at least start with 2 zombies, that way there's a chance to maybe drag someone down with focused fire before the army of players stunlocks you with 3 ego storms while the rest of them dw/giga you into a smoldering pile of angst.

I *hate* starting as a zombie. I still keep at it, though. That's the whole point of pvp. Sometimes you get the bear, and sometimes the bear gets you.

Archived Post
12-11-2011, 10:17 AM
I think that's part of the point. If you despise it so much that you have to exploit your way out of it, don't do it at all. And no, just being there for acclaim gear is not a good reason to 'sploit. Hero Games are for pvp.

Archived Post
12-11-2011, 01:00 PM
Somewhat off-topic, but something that might be a nice addition to ZA would be the ability to choose if you start as hero or zombie.

It would not be certain of course, but would increase your changes to get chosen to that side. (still think it needs to start with only 1 zombie... so obviously if a bunch of people chose to start as zombie, it would randomly choose between them)


I know on my AT's, 2 I love to be Hero, 2 are fun as Zombie (both H and Z, actually). And I know there are many others who really like to play one side more so than the other.

Archived Post
12-11-2011, 02:02 PM
I'd kill for a separate costume slot that I could toggle to as my zombie costume, that required some zombie parts so you could tell the difference. Just sayin. Just because I died, why do I have to look like a crappy retro character? I had a cybernetic arm ffs.

Archived Post
12-12-2011, 05:21 AM
To one of the questions: They did start with two zombies for awhile and it was great for T4, fixed a lot of issues.

It also made ZA in T1-3 unplayable due to the difficulty curve with zombies (that they become nothing but targeting chaff at T4 but before that can hit hard at times). Rather than make it so 2 zombies was only in the last tier, they just rolled it back.

Best part is I'm pretty sure the only people who complained never posted here nor did they ever use it for anything but lowbie leveling, then never touched it again except the occasional alt. That's the way things usually go around here, people who play maps and modes for years get to sit behind those people that might play it for a few weeks at most. If we get any attention at all that is.