Fee to convert gold sub to silver membership?

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I mentioned this in a discussion forum thread, but haven't seen it addressed yet. My apologies if it has, but I thought this was an interesting quote from another EG interview w/ Jack Emmert:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2010-11-03-will-star-trek-online-go-free-to-play

Note, however, that if you're a subscriber-turned-Silver member then you'll have to pay to move to a Silver server. "You have to pay to transfer your characters over or you could just start from scratch again," revealed Emmert.

Sounds like gold subs will have to pay a fee to become silver members, once they stop paying a monthly sub. I'm also curious how much of the custom build of a gold character can be retained after a customer pays such a fee.

Edit: reposted link

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Sounds like Jack's confused, there's been no talk of seperate servers at all.

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not sure what he exactly said since the link is broken to me. However, it makes me worried that the lead of Cryptic had such a misconception about one of his games. Hopefully, it was just a mistake.

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one word: greedy

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one word: greedy

I kinda had that same thought.

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Note, however, that if you're a subscriber-turned-Silver member then you'll have to pay to move to a Silver server. "You have to pay to transfer your characters over or you could just start from scratch again," revealed Emmert.

Really? I have to pay to transfer my existing toon(s) to another server? There is to be a gold and silver server? Dude, I hope this is a mistake, because I have no intentions of working all the way back to 40 or paying to down grade a toon.

Is it me, or is this F2P slowly turning into a joke like having to pay for VB?

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As far as I know, there is no fee to covert to a silver account. I will ask around and get an answer to this for you all.

Not sure what was ment by a different "server." I will get clarification on that as well.

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Keep in mind, that interview was in relation (primarily) to STO, not CO.

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Note, however, that if you're a subscriber-turned-Silver member then you'll have to pay to move to a Silver server. "You have to pay to transfer your characters over or you could just start from scratch again," revealed Emmert.
Is it me, or is this F2P slowly turning into a joke like having to pay for VB?
It sounds wrong or taken out of context. There was no talk of "separate" servers - the idea was to get more player base - why would the separate the gold players and silver players, when, judging by this leap of F2P, there isn't enough "gold" players for it's own server?

Regarding paying a fee; I think the idea is that converting your "gold" character to a "silver" one could persist in a fee, which, it shouldn't. The idea of going silver is because you can no longer afford to pay for the game (no longer want to, don't feel it's worth it, etc etc), and thus, I doubt the player would cough out more money to "convert" his or her character to a free to play account.

Seems fishy to me... I think EuroGamer got their information in a knot.

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Really? I have to pay to transfer my existing toon(s) to another server? There is to be a gold and silver server? Dude, I hope this is a mistake, because I have no intentions of working all the way back to 40 or paying to down grade a toon.

Is it me, or is this F2P slowly turning into a joke like having to pay for VB?

No not really. This seems to happen quite often after any major press round for this game. I'll wait for the horses mouth. Then I'll get upset.

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Really? I have to pay to transfer my existing toon(s) to another server? There is to be a gold and silver server? Dude, I hope this is a mistake, because I have no intentions of working all the way back to 40 or paying to down grade a toon.

Is it me, or is this F2P slowly turning into a joke like having to pay for VB?

No, this is absolutely nothing like that.

Besides, this is all moot because it seems like something was definitely taken out of context there.

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Keep in mind, that interview was in relation (primarily) to STO, not CO.

If that is the case, then it sounds like the decision has been made for STO going F2P, and they have to pay.

No not really. This seems to happen quite often after any major press round for this game. I'll wait for the horses mouth. Then I'll get upset.

That quote is from the horses mouth. The quote I used is from Emmert in the link the OP provided. It's like reading the fiasco about VB when the word was we had to pay for it.

Having to pay to convert them to silver (be it server, account, or AT) would PO me off - either STO or CO. I bought four toon slots from the C-Store about a year ago, and decided to renewed my sub for this month for the sole reason of grinding my 15 and 11 to convert to silver with my two 40's, 36, and 27 level toons. (This is on the assumption their will be four to six AT's covering different areas to make a team, for arguments sake: tank, healer, controller (one or two types), and dps (one or two types). I am fully prepared to have to buy extra bag slots, and some other odds and ends. But, having to pay for two 40's, 36, 27, and whatever I grind the 15 and 11 to is not worth it. If I have to start from fresh and have to repeat all that content again and again is a deterrent - I think for any player that is returning and thinks, fine, at least I can convert a 40 to a silver AT and play from there well see this the same as I do.

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If that is the case, then it sounds like the decision has been made for STO going F2P, and they have to pay.



That quote is from the horses mouth. The quote I used is from Emmert in the link the OP provided. It's like reading the fiasco about VB when the word was we had to pay for it.

Having to pay to convert them to silver would PO me off - either STO or CO. I bought four toon slots from the C-Store about a year ago, and decided to renewed my sub for this month for the sole reason of grinding my 15 and 11 to convert to silver with my two 40's, 36, and 27 level toons. (This is on the assumption their will be four to six AT's covering different areas to make a team, for arguments sake: tank, healer, controller (one or two types), and dps (one or two types). I am fully prepared to have to buy extra bag slots, and some other odds and ends. But, having to pay for two 40's, 36, 27, and whatever I grind the 15 and 11 to is not worth it. If I have to start from fresh and have to repeat all that content again and again is a deterrent - I think for any player that is returning and thinks, fine, at least I can convert a 40 to a silver AT and play from there well see this the same as I do.

Pay or no pay, when I see it here, on this board it will move from the realm of rumor to fact. Sorry I've played the rumor game to long with this game to accept anything less than a Cryptic staff post here.

GMTiyshen:
As far as I know, there is no fee to covert to a silver account. I will ask around and get an answer to this for you all.

Not sure what was ment by a different "server." I will get clarification on that as well.

If he's not sure, I'm not really going to listen to you about it am I?

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Didn't Emmert leave the CO team?

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Didn't Emmert leave the CO team?

No idea. But Emmert's meaning is quoted quite clearly in the article, be it a server, or a toon, "[We] have to pay to transfer [our] characters over or [we] could just start from scratch again."

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No idea. But Emmert's meaning is quoted quite clearly in the article."
Problem is, the quote doesn't really make sense in the context of CO, since CO doesn't have distinct servers, and running distinct silver and gold servers doesn't make any sense anyway, so I'm inclined to think it's out of context or just wrong.

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Gold members are existing subscribers who will pay $14.99 a month. Silver members, on the other hand, represent the free-to-play side of the game. Silver members have limitations on character class, costumes, and character slots - "all that kind of stuff". But they can download Champions Online and adventure from zero to superhero without spending a penny or a nickel or a galleon or whatever you use.

Of course there's the option to splash some cash if you so choose, picking content, items and buffs "a la carte" from the in-game C-Store.

Note, however, that if you're a subscriber-turned-Silver member then you'll have to pay to move to a Silver server. "You have to pay to transfer your characters over or you could just start from scratch again," revealed Emmert.

The orange bit is the part that the interviewer added. he or she seems to be unaware that CO has no servers as such. that fits because most people still don't really get the way CO is ran. Jack's quote though seems a bit careless ala Daeke in that he seems to have jumped the gun on that. As the GM who posted here hasn't replied yet i think there will be a really interesting meeting Monday morning. I would say the issue is still up in the air.

No one is going to 'start from scratch' without getting some free silver slots to put the new ones in. He also refers to 'transferring your character over' as if there are servers although I'm pretty sure he means silver option rather than (digital) location.

Jeez, talk about leaving your message open to interpretation.:mad:

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Yeah, but starting from scratch would just entail creating a new Silver account. Wouldn't that be simpler?

I plan on making a Silver account. Maybe several. I could effectively multi-box a number of accounts and create a new kind of pet-master. :p

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The orange bit is the part that the interviewer added.
That, combined with the unclear nature of Jack's statement probably means you have to pay to make a silver toon a gold toon, which we already knew was the case.

Still, it doesn't seem like a bad idea to charge to convert from gold to silver, being that it's in Cryptic's best interest to keep gold players gold.

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That, combined with the unclear nature of Jack's statement probably means you have to pay to make a silver toon a gold toon, which we already knew was the case.

Still, it doesn't seem like a bad idea to charge to convert from gold to silver, being that it's in Cryptic's best interest to keep gold players gold.

I disagree. I have invested time and money to level my toons. Now, if I decide this game is not worth the monthly investment, I have to pay to convert those toons to silver. That is the same type of decision making that cause the VB fiasco. Think of it this way, for arguments sake, in Q1 2011, people buy this game at Best Buy, install it, get a free month, then after that free month they go F2P. All that play time, and their investment is now worthless because they have to pay to convert their frame work player to silver. Nah, I have a feeling, if this is a case that I have to pay to convert my frameworks to silver so I can start playing my 40's instead of having to play all the lowbie BS grind because this company has taken the time to build real worth while MMO content, I'll shelf it again.

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I disagree. I have invested time and money to level my toons. Now, if I decide this game is not worth the monthly investment, I have to pay to convert those toons to silver. That is the same type of decision making that cause the VB fiasco. Think of it this way, for arguments sake, in Q1 2011, people buy this game at Best Buy, install it, get a free month, then after that free month they go F2P. All that play time, and their investment is now worthless because they have to pay to convert their frame work player to silver. Nah, I have a feeling, if this is a case that I have to pay to convert my frameworks to silver so I can start playing my 40's instead of having to play all the lowbie BS grind because this company has taken the time to build real worth while MMO content, I'll shelf it again.
Cryptic are strapped for cash, think of your fee for going silver as a tip ;)

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Them being strapped for cash is not my fault. It is their fault if they give me no incentive to invest.

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I disagree. I have invested time and money to level my toons. Now, if I decide this game is not worth the monthly investment, I have to pay to convert those toons to silver. That is the same type of decision making that cause the VB fiasco. Think of it this way, for arguments sake, in Q1 2011, people buy this game at Best Buy, install it, get a free month, then after that free month they go F2P. All that play time, and their investment is now worthless because they have to pay to convert their frame work player to silver. Nah, I have a feeling, if this is a case that I have to pay to convert my frameworks to silver so I can start playing my 40's instead of having to play all the lowbie BS grind because this company has taken the time to build real worth while MMO content, I'll shelf it again.
Well, to be honest, it's just an idea I'm kicking around. Here's my thoughts, as they are right now:

✘ Now, if I decide this game is not worth the monthly investment, I have to pay to convert those toons to silver.
You don't _have_ to do this. You can create new silver characters for free. Or you can just create a silver character to begin with.

Also, since the fee would be paid in Cryptic Bucks (or whatever they're called) and you already get Cryptic Bucks as part of buying the game, you actually don't have to take any more money out of your pocket to convert the character.

✘ That is the same type of decision making that cause the VB fiasco.
Not sure about that. Charging for content and still requiring a monthly fee for that content isn't the same thing as charging a one-time fee so the player can convert their paid toons to F2P.

✘ in Q1 2011, people buy this game at Best Buy, install it, get a free month, then after that free month they go F2P. All that play time, and their investment is now worthless because they have to pay to convert their frame work player to silver
Well no, it's not wasted time. If they want the subscription features, they can continue to subscribe. If instead they want to level a toon using the paid features and then opt out of subscriptions, they pay a small fee to continue using that toon.

Basically, that allows players to quickly level a F2P toon using paid features at the cost of 1 month's subscription plus a small extra fee. It also gives current gold players incentive to stay gold. If you have 8 toons and it's a $2.00 fee to convert a toon to F2P, why not just pay the $15.00 monthly subscription and use your toons with their full powers.

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Oh this is simple to explain. Since Cryptic has already stated that there's a difference between Silver and Gold characters, in terms of builds, he may be talking about builds. In this case, yes, you'd have to pay to transfer your Gold-built character to Silver standards, or start statting your character over again. It's a logical sentence. The bit about the server.. I dunno, but editors and interviewers tend to tack on bits to make the article flow smoother.

Without the added sentence, it's clear he's talking about the difference between Gold and Silver builds.

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I disagree. I have invested time and money to level my toons. Now, if I decide this game is not worth the monthly investment, I have to pay to convert those toons to silver. That is the same type of decision making that cause the VB fiasco. Think of it this way, for arguments sake, in Q1 2011, people buy this game at Best Buy, install it, get a free month, then after that free month they go F2P. All that play time, and their investment is now worthless because they have to pay to convert their frame work player to silver. Nah, I have a feeling, if this is a case that I have to pay to convert my frameworks to silver so I can start playing my 40's instead of having to play all the lowbie BS grind because this company has taken the time to build real worth while MMO content, I'll shelf it again.

Plain and simple if you "decide this game is not worth the monthly investment" then you stop paying and lose any and all access to the game. Period. That's the way MMO's work.

What Cryptic is doing is allowing you to continue playing a portion of their game for free, at your leisure, at no cost to you. If you want to continue playing the toons you invested time and money into, then you have to subscribe again.

Now, if you want to continue playing the toons you invested time and money into, but you don't want to pay a subscription fee, then they are trying to find a way to make that possible, but there will have to be some kind of fee (which has yet to be determined and the mechanic for is still being worked out) because if not, then they are literally giving you the whole game for free.

Cryptic is not taking anything away from you. At all. If you sub, you get to play. That is not changing.

What is changing is that, should you find that this game isn't worth your sub, you can quit, but they'll allow you to keep dipping your toe in.

There seems to be some kind of confusion on the part of the subscription model. It's a subscription. What you are paying for is the right to access the game and your characters. If you stop paying you don't get to take your characters with you to do as you please. You are paying for the right to use their software and engine.

Now they will be providing the right to use their software and engine for free but only to a limited amount. If you want full access you have to pay, just like before.

Second, your assumption of buying the game etc and then going to f2p etc, they have the option to subscribe any time they want. They are being allowed to play a the majority of the game at no cost.

Also, nobody is forcing you to downgrade your character.

Why is it people suddenly have this idea that they should be getting a free service? Where did this come from? That's like asking the phone company to let you keep making all your phone calls for free cuz you already paid them for a few years, while others are getting the privilige of being able to call 911 on their phone at no cost.

This is nothing like VB. VB was Cryptic considering charging an additional fee to fill in a sorely lacking content gap.

This is them giving away the majority of the game for free, and charging for extra stuff. If you want to argue they are charging for basic gameplay stuff like advantages and power selection, that's true. They are charging the same, basic subscription fee they always have.

This is pretty much the opposite of VB. But if you truly truly don't like it, and find it an injustice to have to pay for full access rights to a product you've had no problem paying for full access rights until now, then so be it. Shelf it.

And to really show em, you should give me your stuff.



-Pi

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Plain and simple if you "decide this game is not worth the monthly investment" then you stop paying and lose any and all access to the game. Period. That's the way MMO's work.

What Cryptic is doing is allowing you to continue playing a portion of their game for free, at your leisure, at no cost to you. If you want to continue playing the toons you invested time and money into, then you have to subscribe again.

Now, if you want to continue playing the toons you invested time and money into, but you don't want to pay a subscription fee, then they are trying to find a way to make that possible, but there will have to be some kind of fee (which has yet to be determined and the mechanic for is still being worked out) because if not, then they are literally giving you the whole game for free.

Cryptic is not taking anything away from you. At all. If you sub, you get to play. That is not changing.

What is changing is that, should you find that this game isn't worth your sub, you can quit, but they'll allow you to keep dipping your toe in.

There seems to be some kind of confusion on the part of the subscription model. It's a subscription. What you are paying for is the right to access the game and your characters. If you stop paying you don't get to take your characters with you to do as you please. You are paying for the right to use their software and engine.

Now they will be providing the right to use their software and engine for free but only to a limited amount. If you want full access you have to pay, just like before.

Second, your assumption of buying the game etc and then going to f2p etc, they have the option to subscribe any time they want. They are being allowed to play a the majority of the game at no cost.

Also, nobody is forcing you to downgrade your character.

Why is it people suddenly have this idea that they should be getting a free service? Where did this come from? That's like asking the phone company to let you keep making all your phone calls for free cuz you already paid them for a few years, while others are getting the privilige of being able to call 911 on their phone at no cost.

This is nothing like VB. VB was Cryptic considering charging an additional fee to fill in a sorely lacking content gap.

This is them giving away the majority of the game for free, and charging for extra stuff. If you want to argue they are charging for basic gameplay stuff like advantages and power selection, that's true. They are charging the same, basic subscription fee they always have.

This is pretty much the opposite of VB. But if you truly truly don't like it, and find it an injustice to have to pay for full access rights to a product you've had no problem paying for full access rights until now, then so be it. Shelf it.

And to really show em, you should give me your stuff.



-Pi

Gee, I don't know. Is it from the fact that this game BOMBED so bad as a subscription game it is going F2P? Could that be the reason? And anyone that saw this game going F2P about a year ago can easily see how this is like VB, and is a bad business decision. Giving former players access to their toons but, basically, holding the toon for random to be able to use it, and not only use it, but to have to pay to have it striped/down graded, of powers, slots, and almost all customization is a bad business decision? I understand that I can access my account, and only have access to so many toon slots, but to have to pay to down grade my toon is foolish. But then again, I guess there were people out their that paid to downgrade from Vista to XP instead of just using Linux.

Give you my stuff to show them. That's funny. You must be one of the decision makers at Cryptic that knows how to build a MMO community. I assume you know the difference of getting to use what I already paid for, and wanting something more for free. I would only demand something for free if I had a lifer account - like a stipend under the guise of helping to promote the C-Store.

Either way, I fully expect Cryptic to charge people to down grade toons, and I'm wasting time arguing it. I'll just wait till Q2 2011 for Cryptic to offer people "free down grades" to those who have had sub accounts in the past as they leave because the player wanted their level 40 toon but so much as to pay for the down grade. Either way, this argument will repeat on the STO boards in 8 - 12 months.

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Sorry I haven't responded sooner and nipped any crazy speculations in the bud.

There will be a single shard for Champions Online with both Gold Members and Silver Players on it. No special "Silver Shards" or anything like that.

What Jack was referring to was converting a character from Gold to Silver. This may indeed cost some money. If you are using costume parts that aren't available to Silver Players, and you want to continue using those parts on your converted character, you will need to buy them. Of course, you can simply create a new character for free (assuming you have a free slot to make one).

There is no fee to switch from Gold to Silver at the account level. By definition, a Silver Player is someone who doesn't pay for a subscription. :-)

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Gee, I don't know. Is it from the fact that this game BOMBED so bad as a subscription game it is going F2P? Could that be the reason? And anyone that saw this game going F2P about a year ago can easily see how this is like VB, and is a bad business decision. Giving former players access to their toons but, basically, holding the toon for random to be able to use it, and not only use it, but to have to pay to have it striped/down graded, of powers, slots, and almost all customization is a bad business decision? I understand that I can access my account, and only have access to so many toon slots, but to have to pay to down grade my toon is foolish. But then again, I guess there were people out their that paid to downgrade from Vista to XP instead of just using Linux.

Give you my stuff to show them. That's funny. You must be one of the decision makers at Cryptic that knows how to build a MMO community. I assume you know the difference of getting to use what I already paid for, and wanting something more for free. I would only demand something for free if I had a lifer account - like a stipend under the guise of helping to promote the C-Store.

Either way, I fully expect Cryptic to charge people to down grade toons, and I'm wasting time arguing it. I'll just wait till Q2 2011 for Cryptic to offer people "free down grades" to those who have had sub accounts in the past as they leave because the player wanted their level 40 toon but so much as to pay for the down grade. Either way, this argument will repeat on the STO boards in 8 - 12 months.

Your statements that this game "BOMBED" are based on assumption. We don't have sales figures, we don't have retail numbers, we don't have any facts. Bombed = Tabula Rasa. Bombed = Matrix Online. Bombed = Auto Assault. Bombed = APB. CO = 2 adventure packs, 1 adventure pack on the way, 2 major reviews, 1 major review on the way, 1 entire new zone, 1 new powerset, 5 new costume sets free, like 10 new costume sets in the store, talks about upgrading our source code to become compatible with the "Tip" code used in the newer Cryptic MMO's to be more versitile in adding content, constant communication, several new T4 powers, and potentiallly more powers to come soon to round out some sets. That =/= "BOMBED."

Holding for ransom? It's their property... I don't understand how you can justify recieving a free service with the argument "you paid for it before." It's not a ransom, it's a subscription. Like renting a movie on pay per view or something... if you don't pay, you can watch the teasers, or maybe the really old classics that play on tv pay per view, but not the new releases.

This part here: "holding the toon for random to be able to use it, and not only use it, but to have to pay to have it striped/down graded"
The thing about that is that it's an "either/or" situation. The fact is you want a service without having to pay for it. They said ok, but with limits. You just don't agree with those limits. But there's no theft, there's no ransom.

You just don't want to pay for the parts you think are worth having.

You can still play the game, for free, just not the premium content.

"I assume you know the difference of getting to use what I already paid for, and wanting something more for free."
The difference you state is not relevant. You did not buy your character. The box price you paid was a purchase of the client in disc format and access to the service for 30 days. The monthly fee you paid was not to purchase your characters. You do not own the code that produces them in visual and interactive format. You purchased 30 days of access to use the character you created to use in their game world. What you paid for is not a Gold Character, what you paid for was 30 days of access to an online world.


-Pi

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What Jack was referring to was converting a character from Gold to Silver. This may indeed cost some money. If you are using costume parts that aren't available to Silver Players, and you want to continue using those parts on your converted character, you will need to buy them. Of course, you can simply create a new character for free (assuming you have a free slot to make one).

SUGGESTION -- if someone drops down to a SILVER membership (from GOLD), and tries to play a character with Gold-only features ...? Don't charge money, just take away the non-silver features.

Gold-only costume elements? Throw a popup at them, informing them that conversion to Silver requires them to change their costume so it doesn't use Gold-only elements. If they click "Yes", they go to the Tailor (for free, no in- or out-of-game charge).

Gold-only powers/framework? Throw a popup at them, reminding them they can only use pre-set Archetypes, and give them a list of Archetypes to choose from. BONUS POINTS if you first check their Gold build, and find the Archetype that has the most powers in common, to put in a "Recommended for you" spot on that list.

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SUGGESTION -- if someone drops down to a GOLD membership, * snip *.

Edit for Silver.

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Edit for Silver.

Good catch, and, so edited. Thank you.

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the difference of getting to use what I already paid for, and wanting something more for free.

Cryptic doesnt have access to time machines that would allow them to prevent you from accessing what you already paid for. Nor do they employ hypnostists to erase that access. All that you paid for in the past was access to the game in the past. You got to play the game during a period in which you were paying, and you have your memories of that time. That is the extent of your claim if you choose to stop paying.