PDA

View Full Version : Venomous vs Pyre


Archived Post
10-08-2010, 07:08 AM
Which of these hold agro better? I don't want to break Rox's earth theme but I really don't like maintaining Venomous Breath. I feel like I'm losing agro when I do this...dunno.

One reason I really like Venom Breath is that I can recolor it to look very brown so that it simulates dust coming from Rox's mouth. Can Pyre be recolored to look similar to this? I'm seriously debating breaking theme a bit to become an even better tank.

Here's my current tank build for those that are interested. (I recenty dropped TK Maelstrom because even though it's very thematic, it was a waste of a good power. I'll now be trying out CoPD for the first time in Rox's history :D)

Build by championBuilder (Extantforce.com/championBuilder.htm)

Roxstar: Level 40 Champion

Superstats:
Level 5: Super Constitution
Level 13: Super Presence

Powers:
Level 1: Clobber
Level 1: Iron Cyclone -- Rank 2
Level 5: Defiance -- Rank 3, Rank 2
Level 5: Tunneling
Level 8: Shuriken Throw -- Chained Kunai, Crippling Challenge
Level 11: Venomous Breath -- Challenging Strikes, Infectious Bile
Level 14: Ebon Void -- Voracious Darkness, Rank 3, Rank 2
Level 17: Resurgence -- Rank 3, Rank 2
Level 20: Demolish -- Below The Belt
Level 23: Bionic Shielding -- Rank 2
Level 26: Havoc Stomp
Level 29: Aggressor -- Rank 2, Rank 3
Level 32: Thunderclap -- Challenging Strikes
Level 35: Howl -- Make Them Tremble
Level 35: Earth Flight
Level 38: Circle Of Primal Dominion -- Rank 2, Rank 3

Talents:
Level 1: Divinity
Level 6: Mighty
Level 9: Physical Conditioning
Level 12: Impressive Physique
Level 15: Enduring
Level 18: Intimidating
Level 21: Shrug It Off

EDIT: I know there are several other tanks out there so any other suggestions you have on my build I will definitely take into consideration. I also know there is a huge majority of you Laser Knight advocates out there. This build is meant for cosmics and as such a R2 shield is worthless to me. :) Cheers!

Archived Post
10-08-2010, 09:41 AM
Which of these hold agro better? I don't want to break Rox's earth theme but I really don't like maintaining Venomous Breath. I feel like I'm losing agro when I do this...dunno.

One reason I really like Venom Breath is that I can recolor it to look very brown so that it simulates dust coming from Rox's mouth. Can Pyre be recolored to look similar to this? I'm seriously debating breaking theme a bit to become an even better tank.

Here's my current tank build for those that are interested. (I recenty dropped TK Maelstrom because even though it's very thematic, it was a waste of a good power. I'll now be trying out CoPD for the first time in Rox's history :D)

Build by championBuilder (Extantforce.com/championBuilder.htm)

Roxstar: Level 40 Champion

Superstats:
Level 5: Super Constitution
Level 13: Super Presence

Powers:
Level 1: Clobber
Level 1: Iron Cyclone -- Rank 2
Level 5: Defiance -- Rank 3, Rank 2
Level 5: Tunneling
Level 8: Shuriken Throw -- Chained Kunai, Crippling Challenge
Level 11: Venomous Breath -- Challenging Strikes, Infectious Bile
Level 14: Ebon Void -- Voracious Darkness, Rank 3, Rank 2
Level 17: Resurgence -- Rank 3, Rank 2
Level 20: Demolish -- Below The Belt
Level 23: Bionic Shielding -- Rank 2
Level 26: Havoc Stomp
Level 29: Aggressor -- Rank 2, Rank 3
Level 32: Thunderclap -- Challenging Strikes
Level 35: Howl -- Make Them Tremble
Level 35: Earth Flight
Level 38: Circle Of Primal Dominion -- Rank 2, Rank 3

Talents:
Level 1: Divinity
Level 6: Mighty
Level 9: Physical Conditioning
Level 12: Impressive Physique
Level 15: Enduring
Level 18: Intimidating
Level 21: Shrug It Off

EDIT: I know there are several other tanks out there so any other suggestions you have on my build I will definitely take into consideration. I also know there is a huge majority of you Laser Knight advocates out there. This build is meant for cosmics and as such a R2 shield is worthless to me. :) Cheers!

The advantage of Venemous over Pyre is that it is a maintain so you're hitting the enemy quicker rather than waiting for Pyre to charge. I assume you can recolor Pyre as well as you can Venemous, but I haven't tested that. Damage for both powers is pretty good.

All that to say I don't know...

Archived Post
10-08-2010, 12:28 PM
I tried both on my infernal tank, and i gotta say i liked venomous breath a whole lot more.

Venomous breath is dirt cheap, pyre is expensive as hell

While pyre's pbaoe is nice, more often then not i find the longer range and wide cone more useful

I've heard that maintain powers w/ the the threat adv apply the bonus threat on every tic. It's hard to confirm this, but i can confirm that if an enemy gets hit for the first time, mid-breath, he gets the debuffs.

Speaking of maintains, for alot of my maintain powers i use a handy keybind to make them a tap
/bind x powertrayexec 1 y, where y is the power slot -1. So i just tap my button, and it maintains the whole duration. Just use another power, or block to cancel early.

Archived Post
10-08-2010, 12:30 PM
Ooooh that bind will make movement A LOT easier! :)

Archived Post
10-08-2010, 02:34 PM
Which of these hold agro better? I don't want to break Rox's earth theme but I really don't like maintaining Venomous Breath. I feel like I'm losing agro when I do this...dunno.

One reason I really like Venom Breath is that I can recolor it to look very brown so that it simulates dust coming from Rox's mouth. Can Pyre be recolored to look similar to this? I'm seriously debating breaking theme a bit to become an even better tank.

Here's my current tank build for those that are interested. (I recenty dropped TK Maelstrom because even though it's very thematic, it was a waste of a good power. I'll now be trying out CoPD for the first time in Rox's history :D)

Build by championBuilder (Extantforce.com/championBuilder.htm)

Roxstar: Level 40 Champion

Superstats:
Level 5: Super Constitution
Level 13: Super Presence

Powers:
Level 1: Clobber
Level 1: Iron Cyclone -- Rank 2
Level 5: Defiance -- Rank 3, Rank 2
Level 5: Tunneling
Level 8: Shuriken Throw -- Chained Kunai, Crippling Challenge
Level 11: Venomous Breath -- Challenging Strikes, Infectious Bile
Level 14: Ebon Void -- Voracious Darkness, Rank 3, Rank 2
Level 17: Resurgence -- Rank 3, Rank 2
Level 20: Demolish -- Below The Belt
Level 23: Bionic Shielding -- Rank 2
Level 26: Havoc Stomp
Level 29: Aggressor -- Rank 2, Rank 3
Level 32: Thunderclap -- Challenging Strikes
Level 35: Howl -- Make Them Tremble
Level 35: Earth Flight
Level 38: Circle Of Primal Dominion -- Rank 2, Rank 3

Talents:
Level 1: Divinity
Level 6: Mighty
Level 9: Physical Conditioning
Level 12: Impressive Physique
Level 15: Enduring
Level 18: Intimidating
Level 21: Shrug It Off

EDIT: I know there are several other tanks out there so any other suggestions you have on my build I will definitely take into consideration. I also know there is a huge majority of you Laser Knight advocates out there. This build is meant for cosmics and as such a R2 shield is worthless to me. :) Cheers!

Vixy would take Hurl (w/ crip and adv) instead of the Shuriken. That would, in theory, apply crippling challenge in an aoe.

Vixy also noticed that you have many aoes...if you want to min/max a bit...you could consider choosing one or two and taking some damage buffs instead, like Enrage. Speaking of which, a classic combo is: pull (mighty leap, hurl, w/e), thunderclap, charge roomsweeper.

On maintains...the ones that apply challenging strikes do so on every tick. Breath is better than Pyre. Chainsaw is better than both, though a bit energy intensive.

Since you are pre ss, consider swapping bio shielding for a heal that scales with pre. Conviction is a good one. If it's too energy intensive try Bountiful Chi.

If there's one thing to emphasize here it's this: take enrage, take roomsweeper esp. since you are defiance. roomsweeper will give rage stacks and aggressor stacks at the same time giving you a massive dmg boost and as a result increasing your threat.

Archived Post
10-08-2010, 05:36 PM
I've always felt safer behind a tank that could grab AoE aggro instantly- so I'd say the breath attack over Pyre. Pyre is also quite taxing on the energy while the breath attack's dirt cheap.

Archived Post
10-08-2010, 05:55 PM
...If there's one thing to emphasize here it's this: take enrage, take roomsweeper esp. since you are defiance. roomsweeper will give rage stacks and aggressor stacks at the same time giving you a massive dmg boost and as a result increasing your threat.
Isn't having both RS and HS counter productive?
I thought RS = More Control/Less Damage & HS = Less Control/More Damage :confused:

Archived Post
10-08-2010, 06:33 PM
Vixy would take Hurl (w/ crip and adv) instead of the Shuriken. That would, in theory, apply crippling challenge in an aoe.

And so I thought but the CC only affects the original target. I've tested this myself. I like Shuriken because it will pull baddies towards me. This could be helpful when I'm in CoPD. That's why I have Iron Cyclone as well. I have thought seriously about going back to hurl several times just for thematic purposes though. :)

...and taking some damage buffs instead, like Enrage.

I had Enrage, i've traded it for Howl so that I can add a fear component to my hero. Tanks don't have to just soak damage and collect agro. Add crowd control also takes out any threat towards other allies without have to use your threat max baddie limit. I also use Havoc Stomp to keep baddies on their back for a way of semi-crowd control.

Since you are pre ss, consider swapping bio shielding for a heal that scales with pre. Conviction is a good one. If it's too energy intensive try Bountiful Chi.

This I will look into. I haven't tried Conviction before as I was always afraid that I'd need it when I don't have the energy. I already replaced BCR with Bionic Shielding and am enjoying Bionic a lot more.

If there's one thing to emphasize here it's this: take enrage, take roomsweeper esp. since you are defiance. roomsweeper will give rage stacks and aggressor stacks at the same time giving you a massive dmg boost and as a result increasing your threat.

Roomsweeper, to me at least, is counterproductive to a tank. I do not (especially if using CoPD) want to be chasing around bad guys. It's difficult enough in this game chasing after them on my team since the agro mechanics are a bit awkward. I don't want to contribute to that. I have added things to my build to increase my damage such as Aggressor, Demolish, and Howl. I like Demolish a lot better than Roomsweeper and find it's debuff more helpful than Haymaker or Uppercut's damage.

Archived Post
10-08-2010, 06:46 PM
...Roomsweeper, to me at least, is counterproductive to a tank.
I do not (especially if using CoPD) want to be chasing around bad guys...
A few things to note about RS:

If you've got HS, just tap it to applly KB res., then anything left standing after 1 RS+Enrage needs a more "personal" touch (Demolish + UC/HM) anyway :cool:

I like the fact that if you kill something with RS that had KB res applied to it, it goes flying anyway.
Really cool themeatically IMO :D

Also, a chief complaint about RS vs. HS is that HS is PBAoE, and therefore you don't have to target.
A little know fact about RS, if you just charge it and let it go, it will "Auto Target" the max. # of available foes for you :eek:

Archived Post
10-09-2010, 12:23 AM
HS is good, Vixy likes RS more though....keep in mind that if the targets are under control effects RS does a knockup, not knockback.

Vixy suspects that you won't like CoPD for tanking mobs. It's awesome vs bosses/cosmics, but vs. mobs not so much because you have to recast it every time you move.

Archived Post
10-12-2010, 09:20 AM
Vixy suspects that you won't like CoPD for tanking mobs. It's awesome vs bosses/cosmics, but vs. mobs not so much because you have to recast it every time you move.

This. But tanks arent really as needed much for trash pulls. We love you for cosmics!

If theme's an issue, Pyre is pretty bright, but you wont hit the same shade as your VB. You'll fart dust, but it'll be bright dust.

Both Pyre and VB have the same cumulative aggro build on their tics. What's nice about the Pyre/Circle combo is you can drop circle at cosmics feet, drop pyre, then use another aggro gainer while pyre still builds threat.

I haven't used this combo, but I heard it has massive threat gains.

For a real off the wall suggestion, try taking both VB and Pyre, then drop TC.