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Archived Post
03-27-2010, 08:48 AM
Dear CO-Community,

Soon I gonna hit 40 and learned a lot from my current wrong build, so I thought about a concept. Main Goal is to be a nice damage dealer for Lairs, but have a certain chances to survive in solo PvE and PVP when I am in the mood for it. So, I'd love to hear some input that I doesn't waste my free retcon :)

Build by championBuilder 0.4.1 (http://champions.zarzu.ch)

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Areku: Level 40 Champion

Superstats:
Level 5: Super Dexterity
Level 13: Super Endurance

Powers:
Level 1: Force Bolts -- Energy Refraction
Level 1: Ice Blast -- Rank 3, Rank 2
Level 5: Shatter
Level 5: Ice Slide
Level 8: Personal Force Field -- Rank 3, Rank 2
Level 11: Frost Breath -- Frost Bite
Level 14: Snow Storm -- Rank 2, Rank 3
Level 17: Force Shield -- Force Sheath
Level 20: Ice Form -- Rank 3, Rank 2
Level 23: Electric Sheath
Level 26: Palliate -- Rank 2, Rank 3
Level 29: Force Cascade -- Rank 2, Rank 3
Level 32: Electrocute
Level 35: Ice Shield -- Frigid Air
Level 35: Teleport
Level 38: Energy Storm -- Rank 2, Rank 3

Talents:
Level 1: Quick Trigger
Level 6: Agile
Level 9: Energetic
Level 12: Accurate
Level 15: Shooter
Level 18: Daredevil
Level 21: Indomitable

Archived Post
03-28-2010, 04:16 AM
So, no one has to say something? Or is the comco Ice Force just so unpopular?

Archived Post
03-28-2010, 07:36 AM
The Hard Frost advantage on Ice Blast is terrific.

PFF/Ice Form is probably a good dual-build.

Force Shield and Ice Shield? You can only use one at a time, and you don't need Ice Shield if you have Frost Breath with Frost Bite.

In any build that uses Force, I expect to see Force Eruption with Gravitational Polarity. It's too good not to.

Archived Post
03-29-2010, 02:37 AM
Thank you very much for your input, so I rethought a few details and would come up with the following build. I have no experience with frost breath to hit them to apply chill, but I think I can really skip Ice Shield + Frigid Air then. Palliate is more of a 'Oh Shi-' button when things are getting tough. ^^

Build by championBuilder 0.4.1 (http://champions.zarzu.ch)

Download this Build here. (http://champions.zarzu.ch/download.php?download=4132g6030037042010504115zz05 7035010604104704301060340270451105015070m031070321 10501606031045zz04704601075y10f5y2015y2075y20k5y20 h5y20w5y20425y0015y0076Arekuh0000000000000000)

Areku: Level 40 Champion

Superstats:
Level 5: Super Dexterity
Level 13: Super Endurance

Powers:
Level 1: Force Bolts -- Energy Refraction
Level 1: Ice Blast -- Rank 3, Rank 2
Level 5: Shatter
Level 5: Ice Slide
Level 8: Personal Force Field -- Rank 3, Rank 2
Level 11: Frost Breath -- Frost Bite
Level 14: Snow Storm -- Rank 3, Rank 2
Level 17: Force Shield -- Force Sheath
Level 20: Ice Form -- Rank 3, Rank 2
Level 23: Electric Sheath
Level 26: Palliate -- Rank 3, Rank 2
Level 29: Force Cascade -- Rank 3, Rank 2
Level 32: Electrocute
Level 35: Force Eruption -- Gravitational Polarity
Level 35: Teleport
Level 38: Energy Storm -- Rank 3, Rank 2

Talents:
Level 1: Quick Trigger
Level 6: Agile
Level 9: Energetic
Level 12: Accurate
Level 15: Shooter
Level 18: Daredevil
Level 21: Indomitable

Archived Post
03-29-2010, 07:24 AM
Hmmm, why does your build show you have Energy Storm taken at 38, but when I go to download and actually look at the build in the builder it shows Ice Cage in it's place instead? Come to think of it I can't seem to see any T4 power in the builder, despite having the requisites...

Archived Post
03-29-2010, 07:27 AM
Because the champions builder is no longer being updated.

Archived Post
03-29-2010, 07:31 AM
1. Damn that was a fast reply.

2. Aww :(

I think I see now. Probably just replaced the "Ice Cage" text in the post with Energy Storm. Duh. I shouldn't post on forums in the morning before coffee time...

Archived Post
03-29-2010, 08:07 AM
Yeah, it is a pity that the builder is no longer updated, so I nastily just replaced in the pasted text Ice Cage with Energy Storm as it is just a placeholder in there.

Archived Post
03-29-2010, 08:16 AM
As for the build itself, the current iteration isn't bad. I don't like PFF personally and would change it with Lightning reflexes because you're super-dex, but that's just me.

Some things you might consider.

Field Surge. Because you are using PFF, you NEED this ability. It pretty much makes your PFF heal right back up, if you go with PFF, I suggest getting this ability as well.

Be aware that Ice form won't boost any of your force attacks. If you are avengering it up, stick with your ice attacks.

EDIT: Except cascade. Cascade will eat up your energy form for additional damage.

Make sure your Utility has EGO items in it, all those crits are useless if they don't do damage.

You don't have any ranks in your travel powers, which is fine. I find it annoying to get around however. I'll gladly take 2 points out of my build just so I don't have to worry about getting from A-B. Being fast in PvP helps a tiny bit as well, but you have teleport for that.

You are going to see that Force Cascade makes the rest of your build a joke. Just use that power and you're set. I find it boring, but it's still a really cool power to have.

Archived Post
03-29-2010, 08:50 AM
Shatter doesn't seem to be doing your build any good. You only have a few powers that could possibly proc an Ice Structure, and even then it's not guaranteed, since you have to stack chill effects. Sure, it does extra damage against chilled guys and gives you energy if its hits someone chilled, but it also consumes chill, which depletes the usefulness of the Hard Frost Advantage. Basically you have a non-shatter Ice build skeleton, with shatter, which makes me go "Bwa?"

If you're taking Snowstorm, definitely consider getting the Eye of the Storm advantage, to punish attackers inside the storm.

Since I recommend you drop Shatter (or pick up other Ice abilities that actually synergize with it, since it's main benefit is blowing up Ice Structures for massive spike damage), you'll have a free power slot, hopefully you will decide to fill it with Field Surge :o

Archived Post
03-29-2010, 09:03 AM
I've actually got a similar kind of build in mind for my Ice toon OP, though it's kind of drifted from being a pure ice to being more ice/force/electricity now.

I do have a question though. I was reading in another topic about playing force characters in sentinel (support) role because apparently the knockback effect that pretty much all of force's attacks have counts as control and therefore gets the discounts associated with being in sentinel form, which I believe included a cost discount as well as an equilibrium bonus.

My question is, do the chill effects on Ice's attacks count as control too and would also be subject to such discounts? I've always classified controls as anything that hinders or inhibits a target from moving or reacting, and I'd certainly include a slow effect like chill into that category.

Has anybody tested this, and, more importantly, would it be worth it?

P.S. Here's my build if anyone, including the OP, was curious. Keep in mind it's only in "concept" form atm.

Build by championBuilder 0.4.1 (http://champions.zarzu.ch)

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: Level 40 Champion

Superstats:
Level 5: Super Endurance
Level 13: Super Constitution

Powers:
Level 1: Ice Shards
Level 1: Ice Blast -- Hard Frost, Rank 2, Accelerated Metabolism
Level 5: Ice Shield -- Frigid Air
Level 5: Acrobatics -- Versatility, Rank 2
Level 8: Force Eruption -- Gravitational Polarity
Level 11: Personal Force Field -- Rank 2, Rank 3
Level 14: Snow Storm -- Eye Of The Storm, Rank 2
Level 17: Electric Sheath
Level 20: Field Surge -- Rank 2, Rank 3
Level 23: Wall Of Ice -- Frozen Footsteps
Level 26: Imbue
Level 29: Force Cascade -- Rank 2, Rank 3
Level 32: Electrocute
Level 35: Bionic Shielding -- Overloaded Circuits
Level 35: Teleport
Level 38: Energy Storm -- Rank 2, Rank 3

Talents:
Level 1: Electric Potential

Archived Post
03-29-2010, 03:04 PM
Thank you very much for additional input.

Yeah, the main idea ist to stick with ice, add chill and enjoy the other synergy effects of other powers. The problem I see with shatter is: It can crit for like 1,4k on my level (38 currently) to multiple guys when I stack enough chill on them. For that I have Snowstorm and Frost breath then. But I am suspicious with that all Ice Structures and blowing them up with shatter as my experience showed me that it takes too long and doesn't do that much damage...

So dropping Shatter and taking Field Surge instead sounds like a good idea. I took Force Cascade as Ice is lacking a nice finishing move (as Shatter + Ice Burst + Wall of Ice doesn't seem to work) so I stick with Force Cascade + Energy Storm. And using FC all the time sounds a little bit too much, so I have Snow storm (for groups) and Ice Burst, when the conditions aren't right (like Energy Form isn't back or the target is moving too much).

Just a last question:

Ice Burst Rank3 vs. Hard Frost --- Snowstorm Rank 3 vs. Eye of the storm

My experience so far showed that you can almost forget SS in PvP as people then start blocking and then the SS ticks are doing less damage than the regen heal ticks (pre-revelations). In PvE you do massive damage with EotS, but I fear to pull aggro in Lairs later as I have no experience in them. So what do you think?