VIP Lounge

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it's awesome. In particular, I really like the Nemesis and Unity discount venders <3. And the GOLDEN FOXBAT is hilarious, the device to teleport in useful, and the mission that refills your hero points nice.

I figured it'd be just some sort of place nobody ever hung out in like the pocket d lounge in CoX but it's nice to see there's a reason for going.

SUGGESTIONS??

1) a teleporter might be cool

2) crafting tables, trainers (since there's an auction house as is).

3) dancing foxbat.

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Tailor if anything!

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I wish there was a way others could get in there. I mean, I appretiate the generous gesture on behalf of the Devs, but I feel that it should be available to other heroes.

There should be someway besides being a lifer to get in there. Maybe when you hit lvl 40 you gain access to a mission chain that makes it so you can go in. That would give people another reason to get to forty and let them feel rewarded for it.

I say this because, as cool as the ViP room is, I don't think there should be such a drastic seperation between players. I could be off the mark on this, but I would want others to have the oppertunity to be welcomed there.

idk...maybe its just because I always am the type to pull for the underdogs that I feel this way, but than again thats what being a hero is all about to me!

Edit: yes, I am a lifer, and these were just some of my thoughts on the subject.

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but I feel that it should be available to other heroes.

As a lifer myself, I wouldn't mind if there was a VIP thing you could buy for C-Points that let you into the VIP lounge.

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I like the idea of the tailor.

I personally wouldn't mind nonlifers going inside but I think the services should be lifer only--after all, that is the entire point of the place. the unity/nemesis discounts wouldn't mean much if any 40 could get them because--you only use those things at level 40 to begin with.

Though I guess I'm pretty surprised we got a lounge to begin with.

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I wish there was a way others could get in there. I mean, I appretiate the generous gesture on behalf of the Devs, but I feel that it should be available to other heroes.

I could see it eventually being a reward for veteran subscribers.

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Though I guess I'm pretty surprised we got a lounge to begin with.

True, but I'm not complaining. Its pretty sweet.

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I like the idea of them re-instating the lifetime sub, and keeping the lounge exclusive to lifetimers.

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I could see it eventually being a reward for veteran subscribers.

This sounds good. Long as we keep the general rabble out somehow.

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As a lifer myself, I wouldn't mind if there was a VIP thing you could buy for C-Points that let you into the VIP lounge.

oh I like the VIP C-points key idea.

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I could see it eventually being a reward for veteran subscribers.

I also like this idea.

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I like the idea of the tailor.

I personally wouldn't mind nonlifers going inside but I think the services should be lifer only--after all, that is the entire point of the place. the unity/nemesis discounts wouldn't mean much if any 40 could get them because--you only use those things at level 40 to begin with.

Though I guess I'm pretty surprised we got a lounge to begin with.

Ok, yeah, this makes sense...lol, and yeah...surprised as well! Was a cool move by Cryptic.

I mean, there should be a good reason to get a ViP pass...should not be handed out easily either. I definately don't want the place to be flooded with 1st level trial account people, but some form of oppertunity would be good for veterans or higher level folk..

Vexiom's idea is along the right path. I'd make it a Vet reward that...yes, opens a mission chain! :cool:

Edit: Lol, idk, I'm just stuck on Mission Chain ideas...

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since the lifetime is roughly the equivalent to 12months price-wise, I can see 12month vets getting access too when the time comes.

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I wish there was a way others could get in there.

I see others have had ideas, but I have one myself:

Simply and solely, be on a team with a Lifetime Member. If you're teamed with one, you can go in. IC, you get a "guest pass" while on the team. This would encourage non-Lifers to value us Lifers in-game; teaming with one of us would mean they ha access to a nice, one-stop "get it ALL done" place to go.

The VIP Card would need to be modified slightly - so that non-members using it would find themselves shunted into Club Caprice's "non-VIP" area. Which would still be a benefit to them, if they want/need to hop back to MC from a different zone.

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since the lifetime is roughly the equivalent to 12months price-wise, I can see 12month vets getting access too when the time comes.
Just to correct you slightly?

Remember that when you buy several months together, each month costs less and less individually. The Lifetime rate should be at least as good a per-month rate, as the best offer currently available.

And that would be the Revelations 3-month recurring package, at $30 ... for a per-month cost of $10.

Based on that, the Lifetime sub is good for at least 20 months. Rounding it to 24 does not seem unreasonable to me.

But then ... see my idea, already posted above.

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I see others have had ideas, but I have one myself:

Simply and solely, be on a team with a Lifetime Member. If you're teamed with one, you can go in. IC, you get a "guest pass" while on the team. This would encourage non-Lifers to value us Lifers in-game; teaming with one of us would mean they ha access to a nice, one-stop "get it ALL done" place to go.

The VIP Card would need to be modified slightly - so that non-members using it would find themselves shunted into Club Caprice's "non-VIP" area. Which would still be a benefit to them, if they want/need to hop back to MC from a different zone.

_Pax_, good idea. I like this.

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Just to correct you slightly?

Remember that when you buy several months together, each month costs less and less individually. The Lifetime rate should be at least as good a per-month rate, as the best offer currently available.

And that would be the Revelations 3-month recurring package, at $30 ... for a per-month cost of $10.

Based on that, the Lifetime sub is good for at least 20 months. Rounding it to 24 does not seem unreasonable to me.
.

I'm honestly okay if it's a year myself, even if it's cheaper, but I see what you're getting at. I'd like the teaming idea in theory but I'd be worried about people basically just teaming for the benefits rather than hanging out and doing missions with them. Perhaps there's a way to incorporate this teaming concept without making it exploitable just when people want the goodies--perhaps run like a nemesis confrontation with a lifer beforehand or something like that.

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Ok, yeah, this makes sense...lol, and yeah...surprised as well! Was a cool move by Cryptic.

I mean, there should be a good reason to get a ViP pass...should not be handed out easily either. I definately don't want the place to be flooded with 1st level trial account people, but some form of oppertunity would be good for veterans or higher level folk..

Vexiom's idea is along the right path. I'd make it a Vet reward that...yes, opens a mission chain! :cool:

Edit: Lol, idk, I'm just stuck on Mission Chain ideas...

I like the mission chain idea thing too. It could be a kind of combo of this and the team idea. Maybe once you've played for a year you can run the mission chain with a lifer and get an 'honorary vip pass' or something.

I'm actually really amazed so many lifers are down with sharing the space so to speak--but I guess it would get awfully lonely after a while.

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The non-lifers? Oh, you mean those guys who've been laughing at us and calling us suckers for 6 months...?

;)

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I hate to be the Greedy Gus, but I don't really think it should be handed out even two years after as a vet reward. I mean, we put down a pretty hefty chunk of change at the get go not knowing what was in store for the year and a half-ish we paid in advance for, the good and the bad.

Does that mean I think it should always be exclusive? Yeah, the VIP lounge I do, it should be lifer's only from here on out. It'd also be nice if it continued to get stuff every now and again.

Does that mean I think the perks should always be exclusive? No. I figure handing out some of those as vet rewards would be just fine. Discounted Reward vendors at a year or two in would be a pretty nice thing for folks, turning on bartenders with the Epictini in the normal club for 3-6 monthers, a daily star regenerator for people at 1 month, etc, etc.

I guess what I'm really saying is the VIP Lounge should be exclusive, and should continue to get updates, but the perks should trickle down. That seems to be the fairest way in my opinion.

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I disagree about anyone being able to go in there. It is a reward for people that chose lifetime subscriptions. Any one else going in there is like spitting in our face.

I wouldn't mind seeing maybe a pass that you could buy and give to a friend for them to get in with maybe 5 uses at a time. have it cost a decent amount of money so they wouldn't be bought and handed out all the time.

In every game I have played, I have usually bought the Collectors edition of the game with the exclusive bonuses only to have those opened up to the whole game population a year or two down the line.

That is a slap in the face. If thats the case than give us a refund on the exclusive stuff we bought that was handed out to everyone.

This needs to stay lifers only. Anything else is a slap in the face and shows that cryptic only cares about money and making everyone happy instead of doing the right thing.

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I just want somone to post some pics. I'm never gonna get into it because I don't want to spend 200 bucks for another social instance. Not that I don't like social instances, but, it's rare you'll see anyone in there. That's just me.

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This sounds good. Long as we keep the general rabble out somehow.

Too late. I can already get in.

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I also like this idea.

13 months sounds like a good amount of time.

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Maybe something like this?

"VIP Lounge "Guest List" daily (24 hour cooldown) mission. It's a mission that can only be picked up by Lifers; from one of the Bouncers in regular Club Caprice. It completes as soon anyone who has the mission enters the VIP lounge which will keep from re-entry into the map without getting it again. LIfers can share the mission (basically putting their friends on the "guest list" in which allows them to enter the VIP Lounge via Crossover. If they leave; they would either have to wait for their lifer friend's 24-hour cooldown to recharge so they can get in again, or get another Lifer friend to share the mission."

If this was the case, then I would limit the store items for non-lifers to only sell drinks and not the Golden Foxbat or the VIP teleporter.

I'm cool with that; though beyond that; I'm not that sympathetic to non-lifers unable to get access to the place. Sorry; it's just that it's a map that houses some nifty perks that would depreciate in value if everyone had it. Mainly the ability to cut the travel time to/from Lemuria (by combination of UNITY TP) and the Nemesis Creator. Beyond that; the game has a ton of equally pretty places to look at and hang out.

I mean, 6-12 (couldn't remember the tiers so sorry if I got the numbers wrong) month subscribers will probably get some additional perks in the future; and I'd be happy for Cryptic to show thanks in other ways. I'd honestly not complain if they got something appropiate to their investment and I couldn't get it. That's fair

But there's got to be something said risking that much money that early on in the game's life-cycle and sticking around for this long without demanding a refund. I mean, if the game tanked by now; all the Lifers would have pretty much lost the equivilent of about give or take 120 bucks and the big "L" in the lounge would really stand for something much more embarrasing.

While the 6 month's would have gotten there time fulfilled so no loss there and it wouldn't have been that big of a loss for 12 month-ers. Maybe the 12-monthers could get a Public Storage space that has a big "S" in front of it instead.

I mean technically; LIfer's haven't even hit the benchmark where the game is going to be free2play for us. So we'll still need to be invested for another year; before we hit that return; and by now we're really too invested in the game to justify a retund. Most likely wouldn't hold up in court. We actually had no prior knowledge that we'd get a room to ourselves at the time we invested in it, but realistically; an example would be if someone drops 500,000 dollars in cash to the Red Cross as a donation; they're likely to get a conference room named after them, so thank you Cryptic for appricating our support in your work.

Wow that's a lot of text..alright /rant. Not mad. Just don't comprehend what the fuss is all about.

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I disagree about anyone being able to go in there. It is a reward for people that chose lifetime subscriptions. Any one else going in there is like spitting in our face.

This needs to stay lifers only. Anything else is a slap in the face and shows that cryptic only cares about money and making everyone happy instead of doing the right thing.

technically the VIP lounge bonus is not something we paid for, it's something extra Cryptic gave us because...

...

...

well they're nice I guess? They certainly didn't have to. It wasn't on the price tag. It's a bonus. And the people here saying they want to open it up to more people are lifers themselves so I don't think it's inherently a slap in the face, particularly if it's done well. The idea you offered is similar to the c-store idea someone gave before.

generally it seems like people don't want just anybody to be able to pop in but it might be cool if they can get access some other way, even if they need a lifer's help, or even if it's for a limited period of time, or if there's a mission unlock, ect. I think that front bears discussing.

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non-lifers want to know what it's like? im sure they can see on utube. or go look at how nice the vampire club is in vibora bay....nice, but it sucks compared to the grand posh pad we crash in...lol.

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The non-lifers? Oh, you mean those guys who've been laughing at us and calling us suckers for 6 months...?

;)

No they mean the monthly people that have supported this game as much as some of us lifers have despite not having the same vested financial interest in the game's success. Some members of any group will be obnoxious. Generalizing and blaming the entire group is just as bad (or worse).

For every post that called us suckers for our investment in an LTS I saw many responses from monthly subscribers who wished they had been able to get an LTS themselves.

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I disagree about anyone being able to go in there. It is a reward for people that chose lifetime subscriptions. Any one else going in there is like spitting in our face.

I wouldn't mind seeing maybe a pass that you could buy and give to a friend for them to get in with maybe 5 uses at a time. have it cost a decent amount of money so they wouldn't be bought and handed out all the time.

In every game I have played, I have usually bought the Collectors edition of the game with the exclusive bonuses only to have those opened up to the whole game population a year or two down the line.

That is a slap in the face. If thats the case than give us a refund on the exclusive stuff we bought that was handed out to everyone.

This needs to stay lifers only. Anything else is a slap in the face and shows that cryptic only cares about money and making everyone happy instead of doing the right thing.

I am curious about your last sentence. Isnt making everyone, or at least every customer, happy the right thing for a company to do ?

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I disagree about anyone being able to go in there. It is a reward for people that chose lifetime subscriptions. Any one else going in there is like spitting in our face.

I wouldn't mind seeing maybe a pass that you could buy and give to a friend for them to get in with maybe 5 uses at a time. have it cost a decent amount of money so they wouldn't be bought and handed out all the time.

In every game I have played, I have usually bought the Collectors edition of the game with the exclusive bonuses only to have those opened up to the whole game population a year or two down the line.

That is a slap in the face. If thats the case than give us a refund on the exclusive stuff we bought that was handed out to everyone.

This needs to stay lifers only. Anything else is a slap in the face and shows that cryptic only cares about money and making everyone happy instead of doing the right thing.

Hear, hear. When I retreat to the club, I like to enjoy my champagne and watercress sandwiches in peace undisturbed by the riffraff. :D

Seriously, I went in for the first time last night and it looked incredible. The furnishings and the giant decorative pool with the holographic globe suspended between Mr. & Mrs. Atlas looked great. I don't mind that there's no crafting tables because I like to have the setting look appropriate for the crafting specialization. An arms table just won't look right in the VIP lounge and it's across the Ren Center, anyway. I can take or leave having an onsite tailor. The Nemesis creator, Unity station & Bank terminal together is a nice touch. The only suggestion I have is some kind of ambient music in the background. It doesn't have to be classical but it should contrast with the dance club grind music.

I liked it so much that I had my character sit down on a couch before I logged out.


P.S. I like the idea of Cryptic rewarding those of us who took a leap of faith and shelled out 14 months worth of subscriptions in advance based on nothing more than Cryptic's rep and/or a love of the Champions Universe.

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Being a RP'er (and not having been able to get lifetime sub when I purchased the game) I kinda wish I could get in if only for the area, I could care less about the services. From what I hear it sounds like an excellent roleplay spot, and I would be willing to pay for a C-store option to access it.

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I don't care how much lifetime sub payed up front, the fact that you save money, no you get the game for FREE, long after subscribers are still paying full price is a reward enough, but no, the devs are like screw you people who may end up giving us what the life time subs payed several times over.

It also says, tough for you people who cant afford a lifetime sub all at once and save yourself hundreds of dollars or more, to you people who may be spending basicly all your spending money on your sub, we laugh at you.

And I have to say, I AM spending basicly all my money on my sub, after bills I myself have enough to buy my subscription fee, and maybe a pack of smokes or two, or some sodas, so do I think lifers deserve prizes for saving money? NO. Saving metric buttloads of money is a pretty damn good prize already.

14 months of subsription is 210$ If I play this game for more than a year, which I most likely will, I will be supporting Cryptic more than a lifetime sub, wheres my damn prize?

If I sound angry, there just might be a reason for that yeah?

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I don't care how much lifetime sub payed up front, the fact that you save money, no you get the game for FREE, long after subscribers are still paying full price is a reward enough, but no, the devs are like screw you people who may end up giving us what the life time subs payed several times over.
And here's the brown-smeared end of the scale ... a born Hater.

For your information, Hater, we shelled out $200 apiece when Cryptic NEEDED that influx of capital ... if we hadn't, there likely wouldn't be a CO for you to pay anyprice for.

It also says, tough for you people who cant afford a lifetime sub all at once and save yourself hundreds of dollars or more, to you people who may be spending basicly all your spending money on your sub, we laugh at you.
Cryptic has officially said the exact opposite (http://forums.champions-online.com/showpost.php?p=1497300&postcount=74) (all emphasis is my own):
Hey folks,

I see a couple of concerns here and I want to clarify two things:

To start, the people who went the extra mile for us before release and purchased lifetime subs are very important to us. That's not to say that if you didn't, you are less important, just that these people are important as well. We wanted to thank them for going that extra mile, and so we went that extra mile for them as well. Just because we're thanking them now, doesn't mean that we won't be thanking you later.

Also, in regards to the front of queue support: This is only for the login server. It won't affect PvP queues or any other in-game queue, only the login server queue.

Finally, each and every subscriber is very important to us at Cryptic. It's you guys that allow us to do what we do, and we really can't express our thanks enough for that.

Thank you,

Stormshade


14 months of subsription is 210$ If I play this game for more than a year, which I most likely will, I will be supporting Cryptic more than a lifetime sub, wheres my damn prize?
14 months bought up front would not cost $210. There's currently a 3-months-for-$30 deal, which works out to $10/month; Lifetime rates should be at LEAST that discounted, if not moreso.

Remember: it's not just the TOTAL money spent over time, it's how much money is handed over up front. Cryptic has had the use of all $200 of my lifetime subscription since late August.

If I sound angry, there just might be a reason for that yeah?
Yes, there is: you're irrational. :rolleyes:

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And here's the brown-smeared end of the scale ... a born Hater.

For your information, Hater, we shelled out $200 apiece when Cryptic NEEDED that influx of capital ... if we hadn't, there likely wouldn't be a CO for you to pay anyprice for.


Cryptic has officially said the exact opposite (http://forums.champions-online.com/showpost.php?p=1497300&postcount=74) (all emphasis is my own):




14 months bought up front would not cost $210. There's currently a 3-months-for-$30 deal, which works out to $10/month; Lifetime rates should be at LEAST that discounted, if not moreso.

Remember: it's not just the TOTAL money spent over time, it's how much money is handed over up front. Cryptic has had the use of all $200 of my lifetime subscription since late August.


Yes, there is: you're irrational. :rolleyes:

Calling me irrational would be name calling considering I put forth valid points for all that I have stated, however, if I call you a snob, I would be summing up the attitude you have portrayed here on the forum, of how someone with more money is more important even though they will pay less.

Yes, you payed cryptic more up front. However, that also by most business models makes you expendable, most companies would be FAR more concerned about the cashflow of people who actually still pay, and will most likely be their income for the game, period.

Unless you buy every single thing on the c-store, and a steady supply of renames and what have you, you will in fact, be paying far, far less, than anyone who plays for several years, and the fact is, a great majority of the players who will play the game for years, because they like it, will be subscribers, considering lifetime sub was a temporary offer, with limited supply to start with, some people were lucky enough to get it the second time it was offered.

Some people will come and play the game for possbly longer than many lifers (many have already quit and ebayed their lifetime sub) without ever having the opportunity to pay the flat lifetime sub.

So explain to me, other than your holier than thou attitude, why are you important to a company that already has your money? I won't be suprised if some people quit over this, I know I won't, but there are plenty of people unfortunately that don't take much to walk away from an MMO.

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Calling me irrational would be name calling considering I put forth valid points for all that I have stated, however, if I call you a snob, I would be summing up the attitude you have portrayed here on the forum, of how someone with more money is more important even though they will pay less.
Sonny, I live on a fixed income, with such a tight budget I rely on food stamps to make ends meet reasonably. And still, I was able to save up enough money to afford the lifetime subscription when it was originally offered. Also, as I pointd out, 99.999%of your "Valid points" have been pre-emptively declared untrue and factless, by the Voice of Officialdom.

So explain to me, other than your holier than thou attitude, why are you important to a company that already has your money?
CO isn't their only product. They want me to be happy with my purchase, and with my business relationship with them, so that I will be more inclined to make additional purchases (and subscription comitments) in the future.

They also want people who AREN'T current Lifertime subscribers to look at see "hey, Cryptic takes good care of their lifetime subscribers, so this deal for their Game XXX over here, is probably a good buy-in". IOW, they want to court OTHER peoples' money, by giving me and other current lifers some almost-zero-cost additional benefits.



But, don't let that stop you. Haters gotta hate, just like fish gotta swim. It's in your nature; I understand, really I do. :rolleyes:

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If it has to be made available to people other than lifetimers, at the least it should either be C-Store (maybe for $10-$15, just to **** people off), or a veteran thing. If it can be obtained by a simple quest chain at level 40, they might as well just not give lifers any benefits at all.

It should be special, and not something you can get into just by doing a couple missions.

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If it has to be made available to people other than lifetimers, at the least it should either be C-Store (maybe for $10-$15, just to **** people off), or a veteran thing. If it can be obtained by a simple quest chain at level 40, they might as well just not give lifers any benefits at all.

It should be special, and not something you can get into just by doing a couple missions.

I think a C-store purchase for it sounds perfectly reasonable, and I dont understand why everyone is freaking out about it...I'd love to get in there, but yelling and fighting is no way to get that...

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Ladies and gentlemen, I present: first-world problems.

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I think a C-store purchase for it sounds perfectly reasonable, and I dont understand why everyone is freaking out about it...I'd love to get in there, but yelling and fighting is no way to get that...

Not sure about buying a ViP card....I think as a 1 year vet reward or at a certain level you could do a quest chain. Quest chain is my favorite idea because it would be more immersive and game oriented. Just buying it is a waste of a fun achievement and game experience. It would cheapen the whole thing.

I suggested earlier that maybe as a vet reward it opens a series of missions to get you a ViP card. Someone else, I think it was _Pax_, suggested teaming with lifers to enter as a ViP Guest. Like that idea too. Could do both of those I suppose...

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I think it should be a one year reward. If you are with the game a year, without leaving, then you get your VIP Card. I would keep it that way, and not put it in the C-Store.

The truth is, regardless of what Cryptic does, people will complain.

Cryptic could give everyone with an active accound $100 Cash just for playing, and someone on here would be complaining about Cryptic not caring about people who do not own computers who didn't have the opportunity to buy and play the game.

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I don't have a lifetime sub or access to the VIP lounge but I don't have a problem with it only being available to lifers. They deserve something for the investment they made to the game. Especially after a rocky start I'm sure a lot of lifers were starting to regret their purchase. If I never got access to the lounge it wouldn't bother me at all.

That being said, it is nice to see most of the lifers willing to open up the lounge to others. They could have easily acted stuck up about it but that's clearly not the case.

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I think it should be a one year reward. If you are with the game a year, without leaving, then you get your VIP Card. I would keep it that way, and not put it in the C-Store.

The truth is, regardless of what Cryptic does, people will complain.

Cryptic could give everyone with an active accound $100 Cash just for playing, and someone on here would be complaining about Cryptic not caring about people who do not own computers who didn't have the opportunity to buy and play the game.

Aye, that would work...and then a series of missions! (Yeah...I'm stuck on that...)


Sad but true...I've seen people where I work literally bring in their own food the day of a company cook out. They do this because they feel managemnet doesn't care but is trying to buy our happiness...and rather then eat a delicious steak...they suck down a pbj...by themselves...in a corner.

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I support a teleporter to any zone, a tailor, and veteran reward accessibility. As far as getting non-lifers in why don't they just give us a guest pass key similar to the TP Key we have for access?

OH! And dancing Foxbat! :eek:

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Why don't they just re-open lifetime subs? Wouldn't that be the fairest option?

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Because, in the long run, no game can afford to sell TOO many Lifetime subscriptions, and Cryptic was already pressured into selling more of them for CO than they really wanted to (they underestimated emand by, probably, an order of magnitude when they made their first offering).

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I am not trying to deride the lifers at all, but why do you get access to ingame items cheaper than anyone else when it was said thsi would only be a place for lifers to assemble together. Cryptic didn't mention this in the announcement of the vip area to my knowledge.

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Because, in the long run, no game can afford to sell TOO many Lifetime subscriptions, and Cryptic was already pressured into selling more of them for CO than they really wanted to (they underestimated emand by, probably, an order of magnitude when they made their first offering).

Turbine seems to be doing pretty well doing just that with LOTRO. It all averages out in the end, I think. Most people play MMO's for maybe a year or two at the most and go on to the new shiny. If I were Cryptic, I'd rather have my money up front personally, but that's just me.

I'm not a lifetime subscriber (bought it a week after launch), but I think it's cool they're rewarding people who gambled on the game. Just think it'd be fair to let others have the same opportunity. It's not like I'm suggesting that monthly subs get the bonus. Just think everyone should have the 'option' to pony up for a lifetime if they want. Perks like this would be a mild incentive to do it, along with saving money.

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I am not trying to deride the lifers at all, but why do you get access to ingame items cheaper than anyone else when it was said thsi would only be a place for lifers to assemble together. Cryptic didn't mention this in the announcement of the vip area to my knowledge.

It wasn't said, and I dunno! I guess they're like 'well you gambled on us so here's a nice reward for doing so'. It's like a 15 percent discount IIRC so it's like 850 nemesis tokens instead of 1000. I think most lifers are open to it opening up (even if some dudes are like cool with it remaining lifer only).

This thread was really just to go :D over it all but hey suggestions are nice.

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Not sure about buying a ViP card....I think as a 1 year vet reward or at a certain level you could do a quest chain. Quest chain is my favorite idea because it would be more immersive and game oriented. Just buying it is a waste of a fun achievement and game experience. It would cheapen the whole thing.

I suggested earlier that maybe as a vet reward it opens a series of missions to get you a ViP card. Someone else, I think it was _Pax_, suggested teaming with lifers to enter as a ViP Guest. Like that idea too. Could do both of those I suppose...

Yeah I think the level 40 idea comes packaged with the 'vet reward' type of deal, the quest chain is just to make it immersive.

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I could see it eventually being a reward for veteran subscribers.

Agreed. Your subs = $200 then you should get in. That means non-lifers would have access starting around the 13th month (depending on their payment structure).

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Agreed. Your subs = $200 then you should get in. That means non-lifers would have access starting around the 13th month (depending on their payment structure).

This I disagree with. It's not that I want to lock non-lifers out )heck, I made the EASY-way suggestion of "just team up with a Lifer").

But if we're going to grant permanent access to non-Lifers? Then it should (a) take more than 1 year's accumulated time, and (b) require some cash money.

So. 18 or 24 months, and, buy a membership through the C-store for ... oh, c400. You get VIP lounge access, and only that. (No title, no chest emblem, just access to the VIP lounge.) Remove the Golden Foxbat AF from the list of purchasables before any of that happens, though.

Also, put the Lifer costume sets up for sale, at 12 or 18 months, and c400 per set. I have no problem with that.

As a Lifer, I'd still be able to "show off" with my exclusive AFs, my title, and my (lame) Emblem. That's fine by me.

The club would still stay somewhat exclusive - the only people coming and going, would be people demonstrably dedicated to the game itself, in a very long-term sense.

And Cryptic could scrounge up some more loose change from the cushions of the Lounge sofas. :)

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This I disagree with. It's not that I want to lock non-lifers out )heck, I made the EASY-way suggestion of "just team up with a Lifer").

But if we're going to grant permanent access to non-Lifers? Then it should (a) take more than 1 year's accumulated time, and (b) require some cash money.

So. 18 or 24 months, and, buy a membership through the C-store for ... oh, c400. You get VIP lounge access, and only that. (No title, no chest emblem, just access to the VIP lounge.) Remove the Golden Foxbat AF from the list of purchasables before any of that happens, though.

Also, put the Lifer costume sets up for sale, at 12 or 18 months, and c400 per set. I have no problem with that.

As a Lifer, I'd still be able to "show off" with my exclusive AFs, my title, and my (lame) Emblem. That's fine by me.

The club would still stay somewhat exclusive - the only people coming and going, would be people demonstrably dedicated to the game itself, in a very long-term sense.

And Cryptic could scrounge up some more loose change from the cushions of the Lounge sofas. :)

I don't get it. I mean, I get it; but then I don't. Non-Lifers access to the Lifer's Lounge. So now it'll just a Lounge then.

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I don't get it. I mean, I get it; but then I don't. Non-Lifers access to the Lifer's Lounge. So now it'll just a Lounge then.
It'd be a VIP lounge - for Lifetimers and long-time Veterans.

Johynny-come-last-month, and his month-to-month subscription ... can't get in.

Gold spammers, for that matter ... can't get in.

Those inclined to grief RPers ... if they even have a qualifying account, might be disinclined to risk a perma-ban with it. And their non-Lifer, opened-last-month alt-accounts ... can't get in.

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It'd be a VIP lounge - for Lifetimers and long-time Veterans.

Johynny-come-last-month, and his month-to-month subscription ... can't get in.

Gold spammers, for that matter ... can't get in.

Those inclined to grief RPers ... if they even have a qualifying account, might be disinclined to risk a perma-ban with it. And their non-Lifer, opened-last-month alt-accounts ... can't get in.

So the big L would stand for Long-TImers/Lifers rather than Lifetime Subscribers. That's just a Vet Reward and I mentioned on another thread I'm not a fan of that idea. Limited Charge Guest Passes yes; but not the food dangling of a Vet reward. Would limited guest passes would also solve another "debate" regarding 15% discounts, cuase then, make friends with a Lifer and he can hook you up.

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Uh-uh. Please re-read ... the Chest Emblem would still remain a Lifetime exclusive article. :)

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I could see them opening Lilfetimes up for a limited time again. Though the price will probably be much higher than it was at launch.

But the VIP lounge was specifically designed for Lifers - so it will probably stay that way.

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Ok, if the lifers get a special place, and get to act like they are more important, I think there should be vet rewards for subscribers only, that would only be fair, I mean come on, if I pay more I should get more right?
Or is my money not as important?

If your going to seperate people based on "dedication" why not give people with real dedication proven over time something that the "lifers" dont get.

If it gets to the point where Cryptic has more than 200$ of my money and lifers still get shown preferential treatment, that may just be when I decide to leave. And I doubt I would be the only one.

PS. if anyone starts in with the "oh if your threatening to leave just do it" I will be sorely dissapointed, I love playing this game and have no problem spending money to do so, but being treated like a second class citezen never makes anyone happy.

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Oh god. My name isn't green is it?

Edit: Phew! All the Lifetime Perks with none of the puffery.

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Ok, if the lifers get a special place, and get to act like they are more important, I think there should be vet rewards for subscribers only, that would only be fair, I mean come on, if I pay more I should get more right?
Or is my money not as important?
ONE: none of us are acting like we're more important.

TWO: Lifetime subscribers are ... well ... subscribers, you know.

If it gets to the point where Cryptic has more than 200$ of my money and lifers still get shown preferential treatment, that may just be when I decide to leave. And I doubt I would be the only one.
*sigh*

You are risking, what ... $15 at a time, for all of 30 days?

Seven months ago, I risked $200 on a game that had not even launched yet.

My risk > your risk. That's why we've gotten these extra FLUFF benefits.

PS. if anyone starts in with the "oh if your threatening to leave just do it" I will be sorely dissapointed, I love playing this game and have no problem spending money to do so, but being treated like a second class citezen never makes anyone happy.
Maybe if you paid attention to the developers' explicit DISAVOWAL of your being a second-class citisen, you wouldn't be so butt-hurt, then?

Otherwise ... QQ moar. I'm part French; your misery and suffering amuse me.

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Ok, if the lifers get a special place, and get to act like they are more important, I think there should be vet rewards for subscribers only, that would only be fair, I mean come on, if I pay more I should get more right?.

Um...it was us lifers in this thread who were the first to suggest the ViP room be accessable to non-lifers as a vet reward or some such way. We have suggested several ways to make this happen.

All of us in the forums seem to be trying to work together as a community to develop something to offer to the devs in way of the ViP room.

The devs wanted to do something nice for those who were able to take a CHANCE and invest in the game and so they gave us a ViP room. We lifers now are trying to spread the goodwill by offering ways to include you guys and THIS is what we get. Fortunately most people (Lifers and Non-Lifers) have been totally cool about the situation.

Work with us and offer suggestions that are viable. The attitude of : "If your going to seperate people based on "dedication" why not give people with real dedication proven over time something that the "lifers" dont get." or accusing us of "acting like we are more important" is not helpful or constructive and in the latter case not true.

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They did say they were changing the vendors to be the same price, so the gameplay disparity is fixed. The rest is cosmetic for the most part, though us roleplayers always want access to more social areas, lifetimers and monthlies alike. It's why Caprice is still as popular as it is, since the River Boat you have to be 34 to get in.

The difference, though, is that anyone can make level 34 with time. The psychological impact that makes people say things like "We're second class citizens" is that it is *impossible* for one group to get into a place that others can. Someone is going to say it isn't fair, and someone else is going to say it is.

It's one thing to have little trinkets or a cosmetic piece to reward lifetimers, but a zone? The moment you say that some people can get in and some people can't, it's really only natural for the ones who can't to feel like they're not as important. Cryptic can *say* they value every customer, but having a room that will *never* be open to anyone else, is just going to make people feel like a bunch of elite players can go somewhere special where the riff raff can't bother them.

Veteran reward for access works to alleviate that, or opening up lifetime subs again does as well.

Take the "impossible" out of the equation and nobody would have the right to complain. They will anyway, but the only thing stoping them from getting the reward is time or money.

I think that's the root of why folks are having an issue with it.

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I think that's the root of why folks are having an issue with it.

No, the problem is that someone gets something that someone else can't have right now. It was the same thing in CoH with vet rewards, the fact that you'd get item X if you stayed long enough was never good enough for many people. The fact that they couldn't have it right now was the problem.

As long as there's exclusive items in a game, there will be people complaining about it. Make it a vet reward and people will complain because they can't get access until they meet the criteria set up for the vet system. Make it a c-store item and they will complain that they have to fork over more money for access to the area...

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Question if anyone knows or can help. I'm a lifetime member as well, I got the perk as well as the in game emblem etc, but no access card or way to get to the VIP Louge. Anyone else having this issue? Advice, help or suggestions are appreciated here.

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True, people are always going to complain about not getting instant gratification. Those incentives are there for a reason, and I wouldn't fault Cryptic for wanting to put up a carrot so people would keep subscribing or buy c-store items.

That's not excluding anyone, in spite of the whining, since only time or money is needed. It's not impossible to do, just inconvenient.

The problem with the lounge concept is that there is no remedy at the moment. I think the folks in this thread have come up with some great solutions to it, all of which make Cryptic more money and removes any legitimate complaint about the Lounge.

If Cryptic is fearing they'd loose money on lifetimes, that's their perception and obviously they'd know how their business model works better than I would. Veteran rewards would be the way to go I think.

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Question if anyone knows or can help. I'm a lifetime member as well, I got the perk as well as the in game emblem etc, but no access card or way to get to the VIP Louge. Anyone else having this issue? Advice, help or suggestions are appreciated here.

The ViP Lounge is at CC...should be an option when you click on the entrance to enter the ViP lounge under the option for CC. The ViP membership card you buy from any bartender in the ViP lounge.

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The problem with the lounge concept is that there is no remedy at the moment.

Aside from some fairly minor amenities, like access to the bank, auction house and UNITY/Nemesis vendors in one room... The VIP lounge offers nothing that everyone already doesn't have access to. So it's not like people are being excluded from some activity. How many of the people who are upset about this spend much if any time in CC right now?

As a social location it's not even all that useful because it is exclusive. Just because someone is a lifer doesn't mean they're more fun to chat/RP with. So I can't do those things, which is what the lounge was designed for, with the people I'd actually want to interact with.

Lets face it, the only reason anyone cares about the VIP lounge at all, is because it's exclusive. That is the only problem with it. As long as it's exclusive in some way, people are going to complain.

If you make it a vet reward people will complain that they have to wait to get in.

Put in the C-Store and people will complain that they have to spend more money to have full access to CO. That or complain that they don't have the extra money right now to pay for it.

So opening it up in some other way is not going to change anything, all it will do is change who and how many people complain about it.

No it's because deep down, people hate being excluded from something, even if it's something they may not even really use.

Edit: I'm not saying I'm against making it available some other way, in fact I was one of the first in this very thread to suggest that it be opened up to more people, via the c-store. But that doesn't mean for one moment doing so will stop people from complaining, or change the validity of the complaints themselves.

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For those who wonder what the place looks like, I put some screenshots here (http://picasaweb.google.com/colin.didier/COVIPLounge?feat=directlink#5453056530938235554).

Back to the discussion, I think permanent access to the vip lounge should be a reward for every player who have supported the game in some significant way, either by investing in a lifetime subscription, been an active subscriber for X months, recruiting Y friends to the game, purchasing Z cumulated cryptic points. It could also be delivered on a case-by-case basis to players who have been great contributors to the community.

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I apologise if I seem to say everyone is acting more important, but there are definately those who have stated they feel only lifers should get that lounge, my suggestion of vet rewards that are only awarded to those who have payed sub time was aimed at the idea of, if some people are adamantly against it being available to others.

You have been one of the most civil in this thread, and from what I understand have the best idea of how to share it with in game content to unlock it.

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The ViP Lounge is at CC...should be an option when you click on the entrance to enter the ViP lounge under the option for CC. The ViP membership card you buy from any bartender in the ViP lounge.

Thank you very much, was looking around for it couldn't find it. Wondered if the transport card was given or something and I missed it.:)

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Been thinking about this a bit more and the more I think the more I wonder why in the world people actually care and are getting so worked up over this.

There's no shortage of social gathering spots in CO. In fact there was a great thread here somewhere listing all of them, including training area's that aren't truly social spots but would well for that purpose.

So there's one more out there... but because this one is exclusive people are getting all fired up over it.

It's not like the VIP lounge is better then any other place. The bank/auction and so on is nice, but no one's going to go there for that reason. Why go though a load screen to get to the bank when I can go to the other side of the Ren Center... That would take what 5 seconds of travel time vs how ever long it takes to load the lounge.

In fact the VIP lounge offers really nothing that everyone doesn't already have full access to. Quite to the contrary, the mere fact that it is exclusive works against it's usefulness.

If I'm together with a group of people who want to gather somewhere to RP or chat or whatever... The fact that it's almost a given that some of them won't be able to get in means we have to go someplace else.

Make it a vet reward and you'll have the same problem, because someone in the group will not of been around long enough. Sell it at the C-Store and again same problem...

"What you don't have the VIP card? Well if you go to the C-Store you can buy it for $5.... Yeah lets just go to CC instead."

So really, what reason is there to offer it as a vet reward or c-store item, other then to appease the people who are upset because they feel like they've been snubbed? As long as it's exclusive in some way, there will be other places better suited to a social gathering spot.

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Why don't they just re-open lifetime subs? Wouldn't that be the fairest option?
Actually, we probably are going to do this.

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I am curious about your last sentence. Isnt making everyone, or at least every customer, happy the right thing for a company to do ?
Noble, but ultimately impossible, I think. Every promotion or offer we run risks upsetting a portion of our userbase. The trick is striving to do the right thing and being open to change. I think we're showing that Cryptic wants to do well by its users and certainly we've shown that we're approachable and more than willing to put effort into improvement.

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Abraham Lincoln once said:
"You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time."

Replace the word "fool" with the word "please", and it remains equally as true. :)

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I like having a place to get away from the common folk.

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Looks like a good, healthy amount of differing opinions here. Now that I see my last two posts, I realize that a single post might do better than a bunch of floating quotes as a response. Maybe I can clear things up a little, at least?

So, our intention with lifetime perks was pretty simple: A portion of our users showed incredible faith in our company and its products by supporting us with lifetime subscription purchases even before investing any time with the final game. We believed that warranted a thank you. That's really the long and short of it. The upfront leap of faith seemed to constitute a polite, "Wow. That was really cool of you guys, so here's some stuff."

Good intentions = paving on the road to hell? I sure hope not!

I understand that people who subscribe and support us in other ways may feel like they're holding the short end of a stick, but that's not the intention. Adding value to faith leaps and purchases of the sort is an established, accepted business practice that, by and large, usually goes over pretty well. Certainly, it's not unreasonable to reward these kinds of purchases. Lots of products and major chains in and outside the gaming space offer veteran programs, rewards for early adopters, exclusives to 'club' members, etc.

In regards to forum titles, surely they don't 'segregate the community' anymore than... I don't know, Xbox Live achievements or character level?

Well, we try and do well by our users. I hope offers like this demonstrate that and not something else entirely.

Cheers!

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My above post was not serious, but this post is.

When I entered the lifetime club, I really did feel appreciated. It was a gift, something you guys didn't have to do but did anyways. That was all kinds of awesome and I am proud to be an eternal champion! :D

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[...]

So really, what reason is there to offer it as a vet reward or c-store item, other then to appease the people who are upset because they feel like they've been snubbed? As long as it's exclusive in some way, there will be other places better suited to a social gathering spot.

The way I see it, the main benefit of having access to the vip lounge is the vip card, which is a convenient way to teleport to rennaissance center and directly access to most of its commodities.

There are also completionnist players, who like to unlock all content no matter how useless/useful it is. Reserved content is, by definition, a frustration for these players, who tend to be over-represented in mmo communities.

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Good intentions = paving on the road to hell? I sure hope not!
If hell has a good Wi-Fi setup, and doesn't block CO ... it's all good. :)

By the way, what does "Marcom Manager" mean, exactly? Just curious, mind.

In regards to forum titles, surely they don't 'segregate the community' anymore than... I don't know, Xbox Live achievements or character level?
Also, if there's a lot of different ones out there, which an be acquired / achieved in different ways ... then the rainbow of player-achievement-diversity could be a sing of a good, HEALTHY community.

Which is to say ... start using Group memberships for Devslayer titling, for Contest winners, for PvP tournament winners, and so on. :) The more different "colorised" names there are to go around, the less possible (or atleast, theless rational) resentment there will be.

Well, we try and do well by our users. I hope offers like this demonstrate that and not something else entirely.
Absolutely, and it's obviously the month-to-monthers who're up for some love next. :) We all gotta take turns, after all. Yes?

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My favorite part of the VIP lounge right now is the free hearthstone back to MC.

Even better now that the timer is broken -- but it will still be cool when it's fixed.

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Actually, we probably are going to do this.

:eek:




pointlessfiller

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So with the re-offering of Lifetime Subs is the Lifers Lounge still going to lose the Unity and Nem item discounts?

I'd hardly call it a huge advantage or game changing but kind of a bummer to get given a gift that shortly gets taken away.

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The way I see it, the main benefit of having access to the vip lounge is the vip card..

I forgot about that. So there's one real advantage (once they get rid of the discount) for being able to access the VIP lounge.

But still I stand by my feeling that the only reason most people want to get access to it is because they currently can't. There really is next to nothing there that someone can't already get elsewhere.

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By the way, what does "Marcom Manager" mean, exactly? Just curious, mind.
I run the marketing, PR and creative services efforts that are collectively referred to as Marcom. It used to include community, but that got moved into CS.

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Cryptic fixed the only real point of contention with this whole thing, I think. Re-offering lifetimes means that if you wanna be special too, you can buy it. That's how businesses work. If someone has a problem with getting a benefit for cash, they live in the wrong country.

As long as the opportunity exists, then there really isn't any 'us' or 'them' involved. Everybody will have the opportunity soon. Nobody ever said people have to buy it. I don't think we can ask Cryptic to do more than that. I would like their developers to be able to eat, after all.

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Actually, we probably are going to do this.Any time table as to when you might do this?

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I'm fine with only lifers getting access. they should have extra perks.

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So they take away the discount because people are whining and complaining about it and now they are going to offer the lifetime subscription again? So all that talk about wanting to reward the people who took a leap of faith now means nothing. If people who did not take advantage of it at the time now complain loud enough that it's not "fair" then what's the point of doing that to begin with? I understand that there are people who didn't know about the game when it started. Sorry but tough. There are items that I have missed out on in other games because I didn't sign up back when they were doing it and there isn't anything I can do. It's just one of those things. I don't care how many new people complain on the other games, they don't reward people for things in the past because it in turn cheapens the reward for the people who were in it for the long haul.

What about the two Qularr Invasion perks that were only available during the pre-launch? Are you now going to offer those to all of the players because they didn't have the opportunity to get them if they complain loud enough that it isn't "fair"? What about all of us who tried to get them during pre-launch but couldn't due to the bug the invasion was suffering from? I was only able to get it on one of my toons because of it. The only thing Cryptic did was give us the action figures for everyone on pre-launch but never gave us the perks that were hard to get.

One of the main reasons a friend and I signed up with this game in the first place and purchased a lifetime subscription was to make sure that we were able to get everything from the beginning. Now it looks like we didn't have to. We could have just saved our money at the time and tried it out and see if we'd like it. That leap of faith that we were being "rewarded" for is now gone. Now say you do open it up again for the next three months. What are you going to do in a year when all of the new players come in and start complaining that they can't buy it? What about in five years? Where do you draw the line?

That's the problem with trying to please everyone. You can't. You start making changes to accommodate every person who complains and then pretty soon the game fails because it's not what everyone wants or expects and they just end up screaming on the forums about how awful the game is or how bad the devs are.

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^^^^ Proof that you can't please everyone, no matter WHAT you do. *le sigh* ^^^^


After all, who's to say the NEW Lifetime offer will be the same as the OLD lifetime offer?

The Art Deco and Retro Future sets might, or might not, be part of it (maybe they'll get some OTHER exclusive costume set). Or maybe they'll get enough C-points to buy one or two of the sets in the Co-store, instead.

The price might be $200 ... or, more likely, it'll be HIGHER ($300, perhaps).

It might come with the extra character slots ... or it might not. Or maybe more, or even less (12 slots, for example, instead of our 16).

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I don't hope it's new exclusive costume parts... oh ye gods. My collector mind is kicking in.

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That's my point exactly. You can't please everyone no matter what you do, so why do you even bother to try. Make a decision and stick with it. Changing everything after the fact to try and please everyone won't work. Stick to your guns. Come up with some cool ideas that other people can get in on. Taking things away from one group of people because another group of people doesn't have it so it's "fair" never works. Create new ideas that another group of people can get in on. Make it a vet reward down the line like after 3 years or so, so others can get in. Come up with something instead of cheapening a previous reward.

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What, exactly, are they "taking away" from us?

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He's referring to the discount getting pulled. As I was.

Given that you get up to 18 Nems and infinite Unity Missions having a discount for lifers isn't earth shattering. Not to mention that the items while good are not the be all end all of gear you can get in the game. Especially compared to upper level drops.

If it truly was an oversight by Cryptic, no biggie, all the other things are really cool and appreciated.

However I did like the idea of possibly opening up some things to people as vet rewards that someone proposed.

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I'm all for more people being able to get lifetime subs honestly. It means more players who'll be sticking around for a fair while almost for certain; it means more money up-front for Cryptic to add to the game and keep making it better... and basically imo just causes much win all around.


*edit 2*

Aha... got it!

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So they take away the discount because people are whining and complaining about it and now they are going to offer the lifetime subscription again?

So...you're against Cryptic making money?

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Not at all. But in the long run they will be loosing money if they open that up again.

We'll see what happens. It's not going to kill me whatever route they go. Just irritating that people always feel that ti's not right that someone has something that someone else doesn't and they demand that it be given to them or taken away.

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So...you're against Cryptic making money?

He perhaps worded it in a questionable manner, but I do see where the lad is comin' from, where is the line to be drawn? Is this going to be a recurrent theme, where if enough people whine about not being able to have purchased the LTS they're just going to keep reinstating 'em? I'm only asking questions here, by the way.

I dunno, six months into the games life and they're already talking about adding new LTS's, just seems a little early. Then again, for all I know they probably don't intend to implement them for another year.

I am NOT a Lifer, I might add.

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Okay at the risk of sounding VERY stupid*...

A) Is the green title for lifers? I'm fairly certain it is; but just to be absolutely certain.

B) If my guess is correct - err... why isn't mine showing? >.< I'm not seeing anything in my profile options; is there something obvious I'm missing?

Yeah, I was wondering that myself. I don't have the green title either and I'm a Lifer. Looks like yours is fixed though. I guess it's just taking time for it to populate through all of the profiles.

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He perhaps worded it in a questionable manner, but I do see where the lad is comin' from, where is the line to be drawn? Is this going to be a recurrent theme, where if enough people whine about not being able to have purchased the LTS they're just going to keep reinstating 'em? I'm only asking questions here, by the way.

I dunno, six months into the games life and they're already talking about adding new LTS's, just seems a little early. Then again, for all I know they probably don't intend to implement them for another year.

I am NOT a Lifer, I might add.

Think of it this way though:

Someone's been paying for the game for a few months - maybe they didn't think they'd enjoy it as much as they did, or maybe they got a lifetime at launch and got a refund thinking it was stupid at the time to spend all that at once.

Now that person realizes that yeah, they probably will play the game for a long, long time to come. Of course they could just stay subscribed, but it's in both the customer and Cryptic's interest to allow the Lifetime option.


The company gets:

A) A sizable chunk of income in one-go - meaning it can be put to work sooner rather than later.

B) Someone who is unlikely to quit on you.

C) Someone who's actually invested (quite literally) in your game succeeding. This raises the potential for word of mouth advertising. (It's not guaranteed, but it's useful.)

D) Someone who not only is invested in the game - but has 15 bucks a month that isn't going where it might otherwise have gone. It's far simpler to get yourself to buy shiny MT stuff if you know you never have to pay for the game itself again; and that means more money for CO's development/existence.

The customer gets:

A) Unlimited playtime - while 15 bucks a month isn't HUGE by any stretch; it does mean that if you forget about the game for a period of time, as long as it's still there you can always reinstall and play again.

B) Added perks in-game - They aren't 'a big deal' necessarily; but nice to have things are still nice to have for a reason.

C) In the long term; barring the end of the game, the customer saves money. I grant you 15 bucks a month isn't a ton; but that's a couple books a month, or a trip to the movies, or for the poor college student buying a LTS with birthday money - many boxes of Ramen. (You know what I'm talking about...) Or of course, shiny C-Store goodies. (I keep bringing that up because that's mostly what I've done... ... I like the shinnies dammit!)

----

The community also wins because more people and more money coming into the game means more development on it, and less likelihood of a nasty fiery death or (nearly as bad) 'maintenance mode' development.

Honestly the only reason to ever limit LTS in the first place was to convince people they "Must act now!" Not that that's why they did it of course; but that's the only real logic to it. It's why with STO, they just kept offering LTS.

I do think the LTS costs more post-launch in STO, so it may be like that here too; but still - in the end its a win for everyone imo.

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Yeah, I was wondering that myself. I don't have the green title either and I'm a Lifer. Looks like yours is fixed though. I guess it's just taking time for it to populate through all of the profiles.

Actually I figured it out >.< go to My Account >> Down under Miscellaneous find Group Memberships >> Click the thing next to Vanguard, then click OK.

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Actually I figured it out >.< go to My Account >> Down under Miscellaneous find Group Memberships >> Click the thing next to Vanguard, then click OK.

Ahh, thank you sir!

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In regards to forum titles, surely they don't 'segregate the community' anymore than... I don't know, Xbox Live achievements or character level?
If you want to be particular about it, it does create a category of people. Whether or not that's segregating the community, I cannot say - That's for the community to decide. If people start discounting Lifers' opinions or vice-versa, then yes it will have segregated the community. Though it will be the fault of the community itself rather than the green titles. The green titles just allow us to see who's a Lifer and who isn't.

Since there's a possibility for a Lifer to remove the green title though, I doubt this will ever happen.

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He's referring to the discount getting pulled. As I was.
You mean, the discount we were never supposed to have in the first place? The discount that was only present because of a mistake? The discount, furthermore, that would not have been right for us to get, seeing as it applied to actual, gameplay-affecting gear?

That discount?

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You mean, the discount we were never supposed to have in the first place? The discount that was only present because of a mistake? The discount, furthermore, that would not have been right for us to get, seeing as it applied to actual, gameplay-affecting gear?

That discount?

Agreed.

Even if giving us a discount on gear wasnt a mistake it was a mistake.

Yeah that last sentence confuses me too.

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You mean, the discount we were never supposed to have in the first place? The discount that was only present because of a mistake? The discount, furthermore, that would not have been right for us to get, seeing as it applied to actual, gameplay-affecting gear?

That discount?

No, I'm talking about the discount that was a mistake but really could of been left in, as the discount was small and the gear available from those vendors is already only nominally better than existing blue gear. The discount that applies to game-play affecting gear in the same way pre-order items apply (very little).

The discount that would of been really cool to get as a gift but which is now getting removed and isn't really worth arguing over since as stated the perk was minor just like all the other ones in the Lifers Lounge.

That discount.

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No, Goretex, it coudl not have been left in.

It was 15%, which is not realy "small".

Besides which, even 1% would be unfair. Those items have real and measurable impact on gameplay, and giving them to Lifers cheaper than nonlifers, would create an imbalance in places like PvP.

It just wasn't right to get a discount on non-cosmetic items, period.

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No, Goretex, it coudl not have been left in.

It was 15%, which is not realy "small".

Besides which, even 1% would be unfair. Those items have real and measurable impact on gameplay, and giving them to Lifers cheaper than nonlifers, would create an imbalance in places like PvP.

It just wasn't right to get a discount on non-cosmetic items, period.

Pax, I agree with you and appreciate you championing this for the good of the community!

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You mean, the discount we were never supposed to have in the first place? The discount that was only present because of a mistake? The discount, furthermore, that would not have been right for us to get, seeing as it applied to actual, gameplay-affecting gear?

That discount?

Yes, that discount. I didn't realize that it was a mistake. I stand corrected. However I find it ironic that earlier you were extolling the discounts before you found out it was a mistake but then you are quick to jump on other people for making the same mistake.

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Yes, that discount. I didn't realize that it was a mistake. I stand corrected. However I find it ironic that earlier you were extolling the discounts before you found out it was a mistake but then you are quick to jump on other people for making the same mistake.

I didn't realize it was a mistake. oops! Well it's fixed now.

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I didn't realize it was a mistake. oops! Well it's fixed now.

Yeah, I read it on the thread "Nemesis Vendor discounts for lifetimers?"

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Looks like a good, healthy amount of differing opinions here. Now that I see my last two posts, I realize that a single post might do better than a bunch of floating quotes as a response. Maybe I can clear things up a little, at least?

Well, we try and do well by our users. I hope offers like this demonstrate that and not something else entirely.

Cheers!

I for one think it's p. awesome, even with the discounts going away soon (the forum titles are p. spiffy too). Just for everything being in there, it was awesome, and you guys didn't have to make this place at all--it's not like you guys said 'you will get a vip lounge for lifetime subscribing' so this was a welcome surprise.

thanks!

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Yes, that discount. I didn't realize that it was a mistake. I stand corrected. However I find it ironic that earlier you were extolling the discounts before you found out it was a mistake but then you are quick to jump on other people for making the same mistake.
Um, no, I don't recall "extolling" them; to be honest, I don't even have characters at a level where they culd make use of thsoe discounts (the most I have on any character is about 10 nemesis merits so far; I'm an altoholic, AND I took a long break from CO).

Perhaps you're thinking of someone else?

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No, Goretex, it coudl not have been left in.

It was 15%, which is not realy "small".

Besides which, even 1% would be unfair. Those items have real and measurable impact on gameplay, and giving them to Lifers cheaper than nonlifers, would create an imbalance in places like PvP.

It just wasn't right to get a discount on non-cosmetic items, period.

Actually Cryptic can do whatever they want, it's their game. But you can sleep well that they have decided to remove the discount and that my skewed view of what is small won't effect you or anyone else.

Do you really want to start down the road of discussing balancing PvP, as if it's not wildly imbalanced through other means already?

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Do you really want to start down the road of discussing balancing PvP, as if it's not wildly imbalanced through other means already?

Totally understand your point about PvP balance here. Having even one more variable adding to imbalance just doesnt seem like a good idea. Particularly since it seems that things might be improving.

My happiness that the discount has been removed centers more around the idea that exclusive rewards that dont affect gameplay are generally more palatable to the player base as a whole and are far less likely to cause flamefests. When the monthly sub rewards are announced (assuming the recurring three month deal wasnt the reward Stormshade was referring to) I am sure that they will similarly steer clear of game balance affecting elements.

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Um, no, I don't recall "extolling" them; to be honest, I don't even have characters at a level where they culd make use of thsoe discounts (the most I have on any character is about 10 nemesis merits so far; I'm an altoholic, AND I took a long break from CO).

Perhaps you're thinking of someone else?

OH my goodness, if you haven't gotten that far I can understand why you think that gear is game changing. Wait til you compare the drops you'll be getting in Nem Con etc agains Unity and Nemesis gear.

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Totally understand your point about PvP balance here. Having even one more variable adding to imbalance just doesnt seem like a good idea. Particularly since it seems that things might be improving.

My happiness that the discount has been removed centers more around the idea that exclusive rewards that dont affect gameplay are generally more palatable to the player base as a whole and are far less likely to cause flamefests. When the monthly sub rewards are announced (assuming the recurring three month deal wasnt the reward Stormshade was referring to) I am sure that they will similarly steer clear of game balance affecting elements.

Good point.

You know what else? I need to spend more time in game and less time in forums. Take care all.

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doh, my name isn't GREEN :(. maybe I need to set it somehow.

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doh, my name isn't GREEN :(. maybe I need to set it somehow.

Go to My Account

then to groups

There should be a button for it.

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Well if Lifetime subs are coming back then consider me signed up. It wasn't in my budget at all last time it was offered but now I can prepare in advance.

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I think they need to leave the discounts in the VIP Lounge alone. If they plan on offering lifetime subs again, then ppl know if they want the discount along with everything else, they gonna have to shell out some dough. I haven't even reached 40 yet and will probably do so after the patch, after the discounts are gone... le sigh....

Honestly.... here's my idea:

1. Remove VIP Lounge from being LTS only and add it to C-Store at a very high point value. The lounge will be nothing more then a quick pit stop if not enough players are able to enter and RP. Unfortunately yes, this means certain morons may also gain entry.
2. Add the LTS costume pieces to the C-Store.
3. Reoffer the LTS, but now at a higher price ($300+).
4. Double the costume piece drop rate for LTS.
5. Reduce the number of kills needed for all costume related perks, for LTS, by half.
6. Make Tailor sessions free to LTS.
7. Make LTS able to retrieve & send items through mail without being at a UNTIL terminal.
8. Make it possible, color-wise, to distinguish from the original LTS & the new ones in the forums.
9. Give LTS access to new costume pieces early, even if that means they'll be in the C-Store, but only LTS can see & purchase them.
10. Add a "Lifetime Subscriber" title in game & make the letters green.
11. Never give in to QQing, or offer LTS ever again... just put your damn foots down.

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2. Add the LTS costume pieces to the C-Store.
They legally cannot do this. The Art Deco set, at least, was advertised as exclusive to that Lifetime Subscription offer. They are thus, due to a whole pileof consumer-protection and anti-false-advertising laws around the world, required by law to keep the set ... wait for it ... exclusive.

4. Double the costume piece drop rate for LTS.
5. Reduce the number of kills needed for all costume related perks, for LTS, by half.

I think these are excessive and unfair. Sorry.

8. Make it possible, color-wise, to distinguish from the original LTS & the new ones in the forums.
Not necessary IMO. They could just give a different Word-title, if they even found it necessary to distinguish between them at all.

9. Give LTS access to new costume pieces early, even if that means they'll be in the C-Store, but only LTS can see & purchase them.
No, this is completely unnecessary. And unfair to the other subscribers, to boot.

10. Add a "Lifetime Subscriber" title in game & make the letters green.
We already get the in-game title "Vanguard", which is unique to us.

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Lifers have their "No-monthlies-allowed" clubhouse/chat channel, their shiny in-game and forums titles, exclusive costume pieces, extra character slots, exclusive AFs, beta access, etc... They also have, you know, lifetime membership to the game.

Now can you stop wasting development resources on this BS, and go back to making content for everyone again? My subscription is funding this game too.

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Yes, yes.
The Lounge is very great.

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No, this is completely unnecessary. And unfair to the other subscribers, to boot.

It's not unfair if they're being given another opportunity to get in on a LTS. What's unfair is that they're even considering offering LTS again to those that did not support them financially earlier on, just because they're QQing & that they are diminishing things they've already given to LTS, such as discounts in the VIP Lounge. So now because Cryptic granted us this gift (although we had to pay for it), OUR QQing gets ignored?

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Question if anyone knows or can help. I'm a lifetime member as well, I got the perk as well as the in game emblem etc, but no access card or way to get to the VIP Louge. Anyone else having this issue? Advice, help or suggestions are appreciated here.

You initially access the lounge by going to Club Caprice. You can by the teleport card from the bartender there.

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In regards to forum titles, surely they don't 'segregate the community' anymore than... I don't know, Xbox Live achievements or character level?I realize that part of marketing and PR is to spin unfavorable situations your way, but my BS-meter got pegged by this statement. Character levels and X-Box Live achievements can be attained by anyone given enough time and dedication. At present, the ridiculous perks you've given lifers cannot be.

The LTS comes with it's own inherent reward; they don't need any more. To do what you've done creates an unwarranted sense of elitism in the LTS base, as clearly evidenced by the responses by those very subscribers in this thread. You can't create a system that fosters such elitism and then admonish those who choose to act so as you have in another thread. It's akin to giving your average teenager the keys to a Corvette and telling them they better keep it under 55 or else.

I think Cryptic has only hurt themselves in the long run with these tactics. You believe you're creating a loyal player base when in fact you are alienating many. I know that I for one will never support your company again.

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They haven't hurt themselves one bit. Think about it. If they offer wonderful things to lifers, everytime a LTS is offered for one of their games, people are gonna want to jump at the chance of getting one. This is a boost to their popularity & to the pre-ordering of their games. People can respond to this & say for blah blah reason I feel slighted, because their not a LTS & never will become one, but chances are if they are taking the time to respond to such posts, that they are lying.

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Sonny, I live on a fixed income, with such a tight budget I rely on food stamps to make ends meet reasonably. And still, I was able to save up enough money to afford the lifetime subscription when it was originally offered.So... you can afford a LTS, yet I have to help pay your food bill? You, sir, have some seriously screwed-up priorities. Now I know why you became so defensive when I "painted you with the entitlement brush,": I was correct on more than one level! I wonder if your local welfare office knows what frivolous spending habits you have?

To admit something like this in this particular discussion must take balls the size of cantaloupes.

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I like the Lounge, I just actually wish it wasn't limited to only lifetime subscribers. Like, being able to let anyone in a team with me into the lounge. Only a few days after the Lounge got put in, and it's already completely dead. A social area isn't much use if there aren't any people there, and there won't be many people there if only like 5% of the population can get in.

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Our tax dollars buy the Holier than Though Art's groceries. Wonderful. I have repeatedly said I do not mind the perks given Lifers (minus the one they corrected), but what an absolutely pure case of Hipocrisy. Take that $200 you have been crying about how hard you sacrificed for and go buy some books and study to get a job. With the amount of posting going on by you, you could have filled out a hundred applications or created a hundred resume's. Unbeleivable.

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I'm divided. I understand that the VIP lounge loses some of its flavor if everyone can get in, but half of my friends can't, for want of a money decision made in August. It's too fun a potential RP spot, and I'd like to share it with more of my friends.

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I wonder if your local welfare office knows what frivolous spending habits you have?

They don't, and even if they did, they wouldn't care...

Eligibility to assistance programs, such as Food Stamps, depends almost entirely on household composition, income, and property... They cannot dictate, or even ask you, what you spend your money on...

Believe me, I know, I train Medicaid, Food Stamp, and cash assistance eligibility workers for our county...

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Our tax dollars buy the Holier than Though Art's groceries. Wonderful. I have repeatedly said I do not mind the perks given Lifers (minus the one they corrected), but what an absolutely pure case of Hipocrisy. Take that $200 you have been crying about how hard you sacrificed for and go buy some books and study to get a job. With the amount of posting going on by you, you could have filled out a hundred applications or created a hundred resume's. Unbeleivable.

My tax dollars go to support a number of causes such as providing assistance to persons with disabilities. I do not at all disagree with that (and I am a Republican :D. )

I do not know, need to know, or desire to know the intimate details of every individual who is unable to work due to a physician diagnosed and government investigated (you cant just say, "I am disabled now, give me money," to receive disability benefits) disability in order to support these programs.

I find you to be a very constructive poster and a wonderfulyl contributive member of this comunity but I think the quoted post goes a touch too far.

My apologies if this comes cross as excessively negative. I completely understand getting upset and expressing that anger. I have regretted more than one of my posts over teh last few months and so hope that you will recognize the line you seem to have crossed here.

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My tax dollars go to support a number of causes such as providing assistance to persons with disabilities. I do not at all disagree with that (and I am a Republican :D. )

I do not know, need to know, or desire to know the intimate details of every individual who is unable to work due to a physician diagnosed and government investigated (you cant just say, "I am disabled now, give me money," to receive disability benefits) disability in order to support these programs.

I find you to be a very constructive poster and a wonderfulyl contributive member of this comunity but I think the quoted post goes a touch too far.

My apologies if this comes cross as excessively negative. I completely understand getting upset and expressing that anger. I have regretted more than one of my posts over teh last few months and so hope that you will recognize the line you seem to have crossed here.

Your right. I said this in retaliation to personal attacks against me that I deemed unwarranted and for the sole purpose of goading. You pointed out that it apparently worked on me. I will refrain from this type of posting in the future, as it serves no purpose.

[Archived Post]

Our tax dollars buy the Holier than Though Art's groceries. Wonderful. I have repeatedly said I do not mind the perks given Lifers (minus the one they corrected), but what an absolutely pure case of Hipocrisy. Take that $200 you have been crying about how hard you sacrificed for and go buy some books and study to get a job. With the amount of posting going on by you, you could have filled out a hundred applications or created a hundred resume's. Unbeleivable.

Wow... Sorry, but that's just ignorant...

And typical... As soon as any form of public assistance is mentioned, a person tends to get pidgeonholed, without any regard to circumstance....

Sadly, it's a very common prejudice....

:(

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By what I have read the person is fully capable of every task I am capable of. I cannot truly know this though, so it wasn't right for me to say.

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By what I have read the person is fully capable of every task I am capable of. I cannot truly know this though, so it wasn't right for me to say.

And you retracted your statement, a classy act...

However, if your retraction is purely based on the newfound knowledge that Pax is disabled, then I still stand by my original post...

If you are not intimately aware of the circumstances, don't judge...


I'm sorry, I know I'm preachy, but this is a hot button subject for me. I've seen first hand the great good our public assistance programs do and the families they have helped. Yet people look at the minority (yes, MINORITY) of those who abuse the system and judge all recipients based on the actions of a few abusers...

If everyone could see what I have seen, this opinion would change...

This derail is over (I hope), I will remove myself from the soapbox as this is a sensitive subject...

[Archived Post]

So... you can afford a LTS, yet I have to help pay your food bill? You, sir, have some seriously screwed-up priorities.
Ahhh, THIS old saw.

Mental health must be maintained just like physical health. You can't expect someone to sit in an empty room and watch their paint slowly age, or whatever. They have to have entertainment.

And this lifetime subscription? BEST VALUE PER DOLLAR, EVER ... as long as CO remains open for business.

I wonder if your local welfare office knows what frivolous spending habits you have?
Yes, they do. I have semi-annual reviews of my expenses, in order to verify the amount of my FS benefits. They did, ONCE, raise their eyebrows at me when I said I spent money on MMOs ... until I pointed out that a bus pass to get to the local library would actually cost me MORE than a monthly subscription. At that point they said, and I quote "Oh, yes that does sound like a bargain, actually". Then they smiled pleasantly, and that was that.

... you were saying? :cool:

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They don't, and even if they did, they wouldn't care...

Eligibility to assistance programs, such as Food Stamps, depends almost entirely on household composition, income, and property... They cannot dictate, or even ask you, what you spend your money on...Believe me, I know - it was a rhetorical question. I have patients on Medicaid who complain bitterly about paying me a $2 co-pay for their otherwise free surgical procedure, then step outside my office, light up a cigarette, jump in their Chrysler 300M, and drive off angry about how unfair "the system" is. Personal priorities are a pet-peeve of mine.

I don't care if he's disabled, homebound, retired, lazy, etc. - it doesn't matter. If he requires government assistance (i.e. MY money) for the basic necessities of life, he has no business spending that kind of money on something as frivolous as a LTS for a MMORPG. I'm not saying the indigent aren't entitled to entertainment, but when obtaining it comes before expenses such as food or otherwise providing for your household, it's wrong.

I'm awful glad my tax dollars could go toward helping a "less fortunate" person feel better about themselves by getting to lounge in a virtual VIP area in a MMORPG. I hope my $200 buys him everything his little heart desires. It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside, even more than curing cancer for free does...

[Archived Post]

Believe me, I know - it was a rhetorical question. I have patients on Medicaid who complain bitterly about paying me a $2 co-pay for their otherwise free surgical procedure, then step outside my office, light up a cigarette, jump in their Chrysler 300M, and drive off angry about how unfair "the system" is. Personal priorities are a pet-peeve of mine.

I don't care if he's disabled, homebound, retired, lazy, etc. - it doesn't matter. If he requires government assistance (i.e. MY money) for the basic necessities of life, he has no business spending that kind of money on something as frivolous as a LTS for a MMORPG. I'm not saying the indigent aren't entitled to entertainment, but when obtaining it comes before expenses such as food or otherwise providing for your household, it's wrong.

I'm awful glad my tax dollars could go toward helping a "less fortunate" person feel better about themselves by getting to lounge in a virtual VIP area in a MMORPG. I hope my $200 buys him everything his little heart desires. It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside, even more than curing cancer for free does...

I dont think that an entertainment budget of approximately $3.50 per month, projected based on the to date lifespan of Cryptics previous projects, qualifies at all as frivolous or excessive spending. I think that so vehemently begrudging an individual 10 cents a day, insufficient for any other form of entertainment, is a bit harsh.

[Archived Post]

With all the bickering and time spent making elitist posts I have to wonder if some are even enjoying the game they have a lifetime subscription for.

[Archived Post]

I'm not saying the indigent aren't entitled to entertainment, but when obtaining it comes before expenses such as food or otherwise providing for your household, it's wrong.
Huge assumptions you're making there. I'm not behind on any bills, my rent is up to date, and I don't go hungry at meals. The first things in my budget are just those - rent, utilities (which, yes, includes the internet), groceries, cleaning supplies for the house, hygeine supplies for myself, clothing and footwear as it becomes needed.

I then have a modest amount of money set aside for "frivolities". About $20 to $25 per week.

I don't smoke, I don't drink, I don't own a car (I couldn't afford to, even if I wanted - Massachusetts has ruinous compulsory tax rates). My luxuries come primarily in the form of video games and books. And MMOs are among the best bang-per-buck for entertainment purposes, I have yet encountered.

I hope my $200 buys him everything his little heart desires. It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside, even more than curing cancer for free does...
First off, it's not "your $200". There are 300,000,000 adults in this country. Even if only half of them are taxpayers, that still means that each taxpayer's "share" of that $200 comes to 0.0001333 cents. Or, $0.000001333 apiece. Are you really going to begrudge me thirteen ten-thousands of one penny, out of your pocket? Really ...?

Second, a sizable amount of my benefits come from my father's record / account at Social Security. My father, sir, who is interred in Arlington National Cemetery, due to years and years of service to this country. A helping hand to his children who need it, is the least thanks you can willingly give.

Especially when it amounts to ... let's see, $7,200 per year ... 150,000,000 taxpaying adults ... $0.000048 per year. About five one-thousandths of a penny, every year. After helping support me for TWO HUNDRED YEARS, the burden upon your shoulders will have come to ... 1 cent.

Wow. A penny, over the course of two centuries. Such a horrible thing to ask; I should really be ashamed, shouldn't I? :rolleyes:

[Archived Post]

With all the bickering and time spent making elitist posts I have to wonder if some are even enjoying the game they have a lifetime subscription for.

Overall, with the exception of a very few individuals who are either being sarcastic or making OBVIOUS jokes about the whole matter there isnt much (if any) elitism going on.

You know why ?

Because thereis nothing elite about a lame costume piece, a green (yellow/grey to me), forum handle, or a make believe room in a make believe city in a make believe world.

If you have issues with Cryptic revealing the LTS rewards before they announce the monthly sub benefits just say so. Dont try to exacerbate an us and them mentality that didnt exist before jealousy overrode common sense. I would like to remind you that al
most immediately after these new perks were announced LTSers started suggesting ways to share them.

[Archived Post]

Overall, with the exception of a very few individuals who are either being sarcastic or making OBVIOUS jokes about the whole matter there isnt much (if any) elitism going on.

You know why ?

Because thereis nothing elite about a lame costume piece, a green (yellow/grey to me), forum handle, or a make believe room in a make believe city in a make believe world.

If you have issues with Cryptic revealing the LTS rewards before they announce the monthly sub benefits just say so. Dont try to exacerbate an us and them mentality that didnt exist before jealousy overrode common sense. I would like to remind you that al
most immediately after these new perks were announced LTSers started suggesting ways to share them.

How could I have issues with a single thing about the game when I'm not even currently a subscriber? I haven't played since beta so don't put words in my mouth. I didn't name any names so I don't know what you're being defensive about. Unless you think you're being elitist and bickering.

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i love the lounge. the best part is the bragging rights. it is kind of worthless if everyone can get in.

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How could I have issues with a single thing about the game when I'm not even currently a subscriber?

If you're not even a subscriber, then what in the seventy-eight Lesser Remote Hells are you doing in this thread?

OTHER than trolling, I mean. That bit is obvious.

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also, the lounge seems to keep the kiddies out too..........great bouncer. lol.

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This is a game.

This is only a game.

If this were the actual thing, we would have been given clearer descriptions.


A VIP lounge sounds great. Currently only lifers can get it. Should it open up to vet subscribers later would make perfect sense if fewer and fewer lifers logged in. In the end, it's just me and my chainsaw. Cleaving a way to victory.

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Overall, with the exception of a very few individuals who are either being sarcastic or making OBVIOUS jokes about the whole matter there isnt much (if any) elitism going on.

You know why ?

Because thereis nothing elite about a lame costume piece, a green (yellow/grey to me), forum handle, or a make believe room in a make believe city in a make believe world.

If you have issues with Cryptic revealing the LTS rewards before they announce the monthly sub benefits just say so. Dont try to exacerbate an us and them mentality that didnt exist before jealousy overrode common sense. I would like to remind you that al
most immediately after these new perks were announced LTSers started suggesting ways to share them.

that's for sure, moment I post people are talking about sharing it.

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How could I have issues with a single thing about the game when I'm not even currently a subscriber? I haven't played since beta so don't put words in my mouth. I didn't name any names so I don't know what you're being defensive about. Unless you think you're being elitist and bickering.

You stated that LTSers as spending time making elitist posts. I didnt put any such words in your mouth, you did. Not having played since beta apparently doesnt keep you from being baselessly insulting to those who have in no way wronged you.

I didnt say that you did have problems with any aspect of the game. I suggested that if you did you should say so. If you dont have any such issues then why are you here casting aspersions ?

[Archived Post]

You stated that LTSers as spending time making elitist posts. I didnt put any such words in your mouth, you did. Not having played since beta apparently doesnt keep you from being baselessly insulting to those who have in no way wronged you.

I didnt say that you did have problems with any aspect of the game. I suggested that if you did you should say so. If you dont have any such issues then why are you here casting aspersions ?

How do you even know who I was referring to? What are you so worked up about?

Where did I say all Lifetime subscribers are doing it?

Chill out. Jesus Christ.

[Archived Post]

You come into a thread where Lifers have been under steady attack from a (small) pack of haters, and use the same epithet - "elitist" - they have used, and you're surprised we're reacting negatively?

You have a serious need for some CLUE, buddy.

[Archived Post]

Why are Lifetimer's being called elitist anyway? Is it because they've been given a "thank you" reward for having put their faith and 200 dollars into the MMO days (or was it weeks?) before the actual launch and not knowing how the game would turn out down the road, hoping that it was worth the investment?

Oh well, you can't please everyone.

[Archived Post]

The VIP lounge is nice, but I feel a bit bad now because not only do I get to continue to play for free now, but we also have additional perks we've gotten that, unless more lifetime memberships are made available, may make those that wanted lifetime but missed out even more upset that they missed it. :(

When I bought my lifetime subscription, I was just happy that I would no longer have to worry about monthly subscriptions. I prefer to be able to play a game I paid for without having to continuously shell out more cash. These extra perks, while nice, were not something I felt we needed. *shrugs*

[Archived Post]

The VIP lounge is nice, but I feel a bit bad now because not only do I get to continue to play for free now, but we also have additional perks we've gotten that, unless more lifetime memberships are made available, may make those that wanted lifetime but missed out even more upset that they missed it. :(

When I bought my lifetime subscription, I was just happy that I would no longer have to worry about monthly subscriptions. I prefer to be able to play a game I paid for without having to continuously shell out more cash. These extra perks, while nice, were not something I felt we needed. *shrugs*

Don't feel bad. Remember the months following the RISK we took with this investment...Even I had doubts that I had made the right decision at times. We were basically told we wasted our money by fellow forumites. Things were rocky and it WAS a GAMBLE we took.

These few same people are now seeing we made the right decision and it actually paid off. In spite of all the drama, stress, and bashing, we STILL are willing to share the wealth with other non-lifer, but still dedicated players.

This is a community and we were rewarded, not just for being there at the begining, but for taking a leap of faith and investing when they needed it. I don't want a divided community, but am tired of seeing you guys feel bad or defend an act of appretiation on behalf of the devs.

Most people are fine with it. Some even posted that in this thread and I thank them. Some people are not. Some people are also just greedy and do not look at the entire picture that led up to this moment. The simply ask: Why do THEY get something that *I* can't have?

I will still advocate for the ViP lounge to be open to Veteran Subscribers as well as lifers, but I will not let a few spoiled brats ruin it for me.

After expressing our desire to "Share the wealth" of the reward we recieved, anyone who still gives us a hard time is misinformed and should change their name to Veruca Salt!

Anyway, its not a huge deal and its really only a few people who have taken issue with it. I was just surprised to come back to this thread to see some of the posts. It went from us ALL working together with suggestions to...well...this.

So don't feel bad. Be happy we were rewarded and know that most people are fine with it. You had a good oppertunity and seized the moment! A wiser man then me once told me: Don't let the b@st@rds bring you down!

[Archived Post]

I apologise if I seem to say everyone is acting more important, but there are definately those who have stated they feel only lifers should get that lounge, my suggestion of vet rewards that are only awarded to those who have payed sub time was aimed at the idea of, if some people are adamantly against it being available to others.

You have been one of the most civil in this thread, and from what I understand have the best idea of how to share it with in game content to unlock it.

Well written post Aoi. No worries mate...and yes, I agree that verterans should be allowed in! :D

[Archived Post]

The VIP lounge is nice, but I feel a bit bad now because not only do I get to continue to play for free now, but we also have additional perks we've gotten that, unless more lifetime memberships are made available, may make those that wanted lifetime but missed out even more upset that they missed it. :(


I don't think you should feed into this bogus story that lifetime subscribers 'play for free'. You certainly do not, and never have since the first day the game went live. You are playing for $200.

So currently you are playing for over $28.50 a month. You won't be playing for $15 a month until after more than 13 months from launch, and you won't be playing for $10 a month for another six months after that. Assuming Champions Online is still going after two years, You'll still be paying more than $8 a month at that time. A savings for sure, but a couple of bucks is hardly the huge 'unfair' advantage some folks claim it is.

[Archived Post]

The price might be $200 ... or, more likely, it'll be HIGHER ($300, perhaps).

It should be higher, since the Lifetime subscription isn't the leap-of-faith that it was for those of us who purchased it in Beta.

Also, I feel I should add that, as a Lifetimer, I'm glad they removed the discounted gear in the VIP Lounge. I'm all for Lifers having perks, but that seemed a bit much. Still, I appreciate what Cryptic has done recently, in regards to the little bonuses for Lifers (and that's all they should be - little bonuses). ;)

[Archived Post]

You come into a thread where Lifers have been under steady attack from a (small) pack of haters, and use the same epithet - "elitist" - they have used, and you're surprised we're reacting negatively?

You have a serious need for some CLUE, buddy.

First of all you need to calm down because as I've said before I was talking about a few people further in this very big thread, I didn't name any names, and I didn't quote any of them.

Secondly there's no need to refer to yourself as a "Lifer" and get defensive because someone said something you didn't like when you don't even know who or what it was directed at.

The person who has been berating me nonstop even admitted he knew what prompted by post but then wrote it off as "OBVIOUS sarcasm" so there's your clue.

Honestly the reason I never subscribed to this game in the first place is because I saw issues with the C-Store which I felt would divide the community. Boy was I wrong. It's this Lifetime subscription bonus doing it.

I'm gonna have to pass, some of you are worse than posters on the WoW forums. I figured you'd want more people to play the game you invested in a Lifetime subscription for but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Make more knee jerk reactions about a one sentence post though.

[Archived Post]

Originaly I was pretty upset due to the vendor discounts. If your a completionist or an AF collector or what have you, that is not an insignificant bonus. After it was said that was unintended, no big deal.

The people who feel it should only be for lifers, well, thats your loss ultimately.

As others have stated, if all it is, is a place for JUST lifers to hang out, then for the most part, you will be missing out on much possible social interaction.

I would say it would be a good place to find SG recruits or what have you, but the fact is, lifers are not necisarily any more likely to stay playing constantly than anyone else. Plenty I've come across take long hiatuses from the game since they can always come back to it. Some let a friend use it more than they ever do, some even go so far as to ebay their lifetime account.

So, all things considered, I am no longer having issues with anything other than the select few who think there should be no interaction there except for lifers, forever, period, because IMO, thats just shortsighted.

[Archived Post]

First of all you need to calm down because as I've said before I was talking about a few people further in this very big thread, I didn't name any names, and I didn't quote any of them.

Secondly there's no need to refer to yourself as a "Lifer" and get defensive because someone said something you didn't like when you don't even know who or what it was directed at.

The person who has been berating me nonstop even admitted he knew what prompted by post but then wrote it off as "OBVIOUS sarcasm" so there's your clue.

Honestly the reason I never subscribed to this game in the first place is because I saw issues with the C-Store which I felt would divide the community. Boy was I wrong. It's this Lifetime subscription bonus doing it.

I'm gonna have to pass, some of you are worse than posters on the WoW forums. I figured you'd want more people to play the game you invested in a Lifetime subscription for but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Make more knee jerk reactions about a one sentence post though.

I am going to assume that you are referring to me.

Either you have problems understanding the meaning of the words you are using or you are being dishonest. I leave it up to you to decide if it is ignorance or dishonesty that prompts your false claims.

[Archived Post]

I am going to assume that you are referring to me.

Either you have problems understanding the meaning of the words you are using or you are being dishonest. I leave it up to you to decide if it is ignorance or dishonesty that prompts your false claims.

Overall, with the exception of a very few individuals who are either being sarcastic or making OBVIOUS jokes about the whole matter there isnt much (if any) elitism going on.

You yourself admitted there was elitism going on and not everyone finds it to be a joke as evidenced by this thread and other reactions you're all complaining about. So what am I lying about?

And why are all of your posts continuously loaded with insults? What are you even mad about? You've been ranting nonstop because I made a post about some people who are being elitist about their Lifetime subscription which you yourself admitted some are doing and those few are who I was referring to.

[Archived Post]

You yourself admitted there was elitism going on and not everyone finds it to be a joke as evidenced by this thread and other reactions you're all complaining about. So what am I lying about?

And why are all of your posts continuously loaded with insults? What are you even mad about? You've been ranting nonstop because I made a post about some people who are being elitist about their Lifetime subscription which you yourself admitted some are doing and those few are who I was referring to.

More dishonesty and false claims.

[Archived Post]

More dishonesty and false claims.

That's funny because that quote came directly from you. At this point I'm going to assume you realized you made the mistake by assuming I was talking about everyone and once it finally sunk in that I wasn't you couldn't backpeddle your way out of it so you need to keep it going with one-liners.

That's why you're now just making nonsensical posts instead of apologizing for jumping to the wrong conclusion. I don't need an apology though, you could just stop.

[Archived Post]

That's funny because that quote came directly from you. At this point I'm going to assume you realized you made the mistake by assuming I was talking about everyone and once it finally sunk in that I wasn't you couldn't backpeddle your way out of it so you need to keep it going with one-liners.

That's why you're now just making nonsensical posts instead of apologizing for jumping to the wrong conclusion. I don't need an apology though, you could just stop.


Actually you have misquoted me everytime and have stated that I am berating you nonstop. both are incorrect. Since you are aware of both, neither made in ignorance apparently, that makes those statements dishonest.

[Archived Post]

Actually you have misquoted me everytime and have stated that I am berating you nonstop. both are incorrect. Since you are aware of both, neither made in ignorance apparently, that makes those statements dishonest.

Misquoted you how?

You're still berating me. What do you think this is? You know I wasn't talking to or about you yet you keep going like anything was said to you.

Aware of what? The fact that you're trying to change the subject because you know my post wasn't about you?

You know what I'm just gonna let you be mad all by yourself over nothing. I explained it to you, laid it all out nice and neat, and you still keep going on and on about how I insulted you. Whatever be mad then, I really don't care.

I'll go play a game I enjoy and let you continue to rant about a post I made many hours ago that wasn't directed towards you.

[Archived Post]

Misquoted you how?

Read my posts carefully.

Then read how you quoted,or paraphrased me with the same care.

If this really is a matter of reading comprehension, rather than intentional misrepresentation, then I do apologize.

Beyond your misrepresentation of my statements and your decision to insult members of this community I have no problem with you.

This is going to sound very very odd at this point in our interaction but I think that you have the coolest signature I have seen to date in the game.

[Archived Post]

Read my posts carefully.

Then read how you quoted,or paraphrased me with the same care.

If this really is a matter of reading comprehension, rather than intentional misrepresentation, then I do apologize.

That quote was a complete sentence that proved exactly what I was saying which is why you're stuck on it now. It's also why once again you keep resorting to insulting me because you were the wrong party and you know it.

Have fun continuing to troll which is all you're doing. I'm going to go back to playing a game I enjoy(sadly not CO) and let you be mad about a forum post made over a day ago.

Beyond your misrepresentation of my statements and your decision to insult members of this community I have no problem with you.

Who? I made one post about a ridiculously elitist post someone made in this thread and didn't even call them out by name. Why do you feel insulted?

Who did I call a name? Am I being punked or something?

[Archived Post]

That quote was a complete sentence that proved exactly what I was saying which is why you're stuck on it now. It's also why once again you keep resorting to insulting me because you were the wrong party and you know it.

Have fun continuing to troll which is all you're doing. I'm going to go back to playing a game I enjoy(sadly not CO) and let you be mad about a forum post made over a day ago.

I am beginning to believe that it is a matter of reading comprehension because at no point did you quote me accurately. A decision to change the sentence and claim it as a direct quote would be extremely dishonest if it were intentional.

[Archived Post]

I am beginning to believe that it is a matter of reading comprehension because at no point did you quote me accurately. A decision to change the sentence and claim it as a direct quote would be extremely dishonest if it were intentional.

I didn't edit one single thing in that quote. I haven't edited anything and again I'm telling you I didn't say anything about you in the post you're ranting about so why are you the only one upset by it?

[Archived Post]

I didn't edit one single thing in that quote. I haven't edited anything and again I'm telling you I didn't say anything about you in the post you're ranting about so why are you the only one upset by it?

what one post are you referring to ?

I am referring to more than one situation in which you misrepresented what I said.

[Archived Post]

Overall, with the exception of a very few individuals who are either being sarcastic or making OBVIOUS jokes about the whole matter there isnt much (if any) elitism going on.

You know why ?

Because thereis nothing elite about a lame costume piece, a green (yellow/grey to me), forum handle, or a make believe room in a make believe city in a make believe world.

If you have issues with Cryptic revealing the LTS rewards before they announce the monthly sub benefits just say so. Dont try to exacerbate an us and them mentality that didnt exist before jealousy overrode common sense. I would like to remind you that al
most immediately after these new perks were announced LTSers started suggesting ways to share them.

Baby_Boy,

This was my original post. It was not a personal attack, it put no words in your mouth, but it did express a desire that you not add to an already volatile situation.

You have misrepresented the contents of this post by claiming direct quote or inaccurate paraphrasing.

You have an opinion that there is a pattern of elitism.

I disagree.

Misquoting oir misrepresenting what I have said is another matter entirely. That is the source of my dissatisfaction with your subsequent posts.

[Archived Post]

First of all you need to calm down because as I've said before I was talking about a few people further in this very big thread, I didn't name any names, and I didn't quote any of them.
Calm? This is me when I'm calm. You want to see me when I'm not calm, hunt down some of my recent "novella-length" posts. Those're me when I'm "not calm".

Secondly there's no need to refer to yourself as a "Lifer" and get defensive because someone said something you didn't like when you don't even know who or what it was directed at.
Unless, of course, what was said didn't exactly have a clear address label on it, and instead, was just generally addressed to "lifetime subscribers". Mayhap that was not your intent, but betwixt intent and keyboard, there appears to have been a wee spot of ... shall we say, "packet loss" ...?

Honestly [...] I never subscribed to this game [...]
Then, honestly, you really have no place on these forums, either.





As others have stated, if all it is, is a place for JUST lifers to hang out, then for the most part, you will be missing out on much possible social interaction.
Well, to be fair? It'll be a one-stop place for me to unload my drops - to the bank, to my alts, to the Market - after a long play-session, and then load back up on restorative devices. :)

[...] some even go so far as to ebay their lifetime account.
... and IMO, they should be shot. More than once.

So, all things considered, I am no longer having issues with anything other than the select few who think there should be no interaction there except for lifers, forever, period, because IMO, thats just shortsighted.
So, how do you feel about the idea of getting in, as long as you're teamed with a Lifetime player? You wouldn't be able to buy the Golden Foxbat, nor the VIP Pass, but you could take in the sights, use the consoles, and so forth. :)





[...] ignorance or dishonesty [...]
Why not both? Both is always good. :cool:

Oh, and Ashen? Baby's just a troll. /ignore him, and move on; your time is worth too much to waste on him.

/me suits actions to words.

[Archived Post]

Oook. This is going nowhere.

Thanks for the compliment about my sig. I'm done arguing though, I'm OCD enough as it is without spending my whole day on something so unimportant.

[Archived Post]

Oook. This is going nowhere.

Thanks for the compliment about my sig. I'm done arguing though, I'm OCD enough as it is without spending my whole day on something so unimportant.

Agreed. I have similar OCD tendencies. Drives my wife nuts.

[Archived Post]

<looks in his wallet for some change>



Why don't they just re-open lifetime subs? Wouldn't that be the fairest option?

Actually, we probably are going to do this.


<throws in his two cents>

Oh I hope not. That would be a bad idea, why? Well it has been stated in past posts, that life-timers applied for lifetime subscriptions from blind faith. Hoping the game will carry on from many years like CoH. Remember all the posts of life-timers turning in there subscriptions? Well too bad so sad, thanks for coming out - bye. Now Cryptic turns around and says “Thank you and here you go for your investment”. Thanks Cryptic!

It has been shown that we have been rewarded and this is good. Now few of those that don’t have lifetime subs (or got rid of them) want to get the same treatment. They only want something IF they get something in return. We lifers didn’t expect anything in return, that is our reward (ie why the discounts should stay in place, and not only on gear but everything including nemesis changes, a costume creator in VIP offering reduced prices for costume changes – hell even a reduction in price at the C-Store would have been enough).

Now look at it over a long period of time. Reopening the lifetime subs will give a sudden influx of cash but it will kill you in the long run. Now players KNOW you give rewards for such things. Paying for a lifetime sub was like playing the lottery, and I bought more then one ticket (lifesub) hoping it will pay off. So you have been delivering Cryptic, but really need to give your head a shake for some of the other decisions.

So here we are those that have it and those that don’t. Those that don’t, had a chance (of course the way Cryptic handled the lifetime sub was a total pooch screw and I hope somebody got fired for that - but they did reopen so players did have the time), now want it. So instead of opening up the lifetime sub again, do what you have done with certain costume pieces. Offer it in the C-store or have them get it in game. C-store is easy, say 2000 cryptic points. In game can be done as veteran reward, time in the game. Time equivalent to how much a lifetime sub, so it was about 200 dollars @ 15 dollars a month… 13.3… so 14 months. So after having an active account for 1 year 2 months (or buying it from the C-store), a player will get access to the VIP room, but will not receive the vanguard. So by ... I guess December 2010 we should be seeing the first batch of dedicated players show up in the VIP room (or sooner if they buy it from the C-store).

[Archived Post]

<looks in his wallet for some change>



<throws in his two cents>

Oh I hope not. That would be a bad idea, why? Well it has been stated in past posts, that life-timers applied for lifetime subscriptions from blind faith. Hoping the game will carry on from many years like CoH. Remember all the posts of life-timers turning in there subscriptions? Well too bad so sad, thanks for coming out - bye. Now Cryptic turns around and says “Thank you and here you go for your investment”. Thanks Cryptic!

It has been shown that we have been rewarded and this is good. Now few of those that don’t have lifetime subs (or got rid of them) want to get the same treatment. They only want something IF they get something in return. We lifers didn’t expect anything in return, that is our reward (ie why the discounts should stay in place, and not only on gear but everything including nemesis changes, a costume creator in VIP offering reduced prices for costume changes – hell even a reduction in price at the C-Store would have been enough).

Now look at it over a long period of time. Reopening the lifetime subs will give a sudden influx of cash but it will kill you in the long run. Now players KNOW you give rewards for such things. Paying for a lifetime sub was like playing the lottery, and I bought more then one ticket (lifesub) hoping it will pay off. So you have been delivering Cryptic, but really need to give your head a shake for some of the other decisions.

So here we are those that have it and those that don’t. Those that don’t, had a chance (of course the way Cryptic handled the lifetime sub was a total pooch screw and I hope somebody got fired for that - but they did reopen so players did have the time), now want it. So instead of opening up the lifetime sub again, do what you have done with certain costume pieces. Offer it in the C-store or have them get it in game. C-store is easy, say 2000 cryptic points. In game can be done as veteran reward, time in the game. Time equivalent to how much a lifetime sub, so it was about 200 dollars @ 15 dollars a month… 13.3… so 14 months. So after having an active account for 1 year 2 months (or buying it from the C-store), a player will get access to the VIP room, but will not receive the vanguard. So by ... I guess December 2010 we should be seeing the first batch of dedicated players show up in the VIP room (or sooner if they buy it from the C-store).

I think people that will buy a lifetime sub now that the game is more stable would still do so without any of the perks. I know I would for say $140, give or take a little.

[Archived Post]

I think people that will buy a lifetime sub now that the game is more stable would still do so without any of the perks. I know I would for say $140, give or take a little.

If Cryptic does decide to bring the LTS back, I think they would charge more than the original 200 bucks the current lifetimes paid. I'd expect the same charge as the STO LTS ($240 ?) or possibly even more. (At least that makes the most business sense to me.)

edit: Also a lower charge on the LTS now would surely **** off the current lifetimers.

[Archived Post]

I'm not sure I really buy this "blind leap of faith" line of thought, sounds like utter nonsense to me. Cryptic made CoX, a very sucesful game, good enough for NC to buy it off them and open a studio to manage it. They were already working on STO also right? They arent going anywhere. They are proven to be good at what they do.

I blind leap of faith in giving cryptic money would be mailing it to them with no address, hoping the postal service gets it there.

Saying its a blind leap of faith is like saying going to your favorite burger joint, telling them you want a burger, but wont give any further specifics, and giving them 5$ is a blind leap of faith, if its your favorite burger joint, you know its gonna be a good burger, otherwise it wouldnt be your favorite place to get them.

Just like I knew CO would be a great MMO, even if I dont like say pickle relish on my burger if you will.

I would have bought a lifetime sub then if I could have afforded it, based on the fact that its cryptic, and its a superhero mmo, considering the only MMOs I havent played more than a year after buying them have been korean grind fests like ****, L2, etc.

I wouldnt consider that a leap of faith.

It WOULD be a leap of faith if your like hey a random mmo is coming out that I've never heard of I think I'll buy a lifetime sub!

Just my opinion.

[Archived Post]

I'm not sure I really buy this "blind leap of faith" line of thought, sounds like utter nonsense to me. Cryptic made CoX, a very sucesful game, good enough for NC to buy it off them and open a studio to manage it. They were already working on STO also right? They arent going anywhere. They are proven to be good at what they do.

I blind leap of faith in giving cryptic money would be mailing it to them with no address, hoping the postal service gets it there.

Saying its a blind leap of faith is like saying going to your favorite burger joint, telling them you want a burger, but wont give any further specifics, and giving them 5$ is a blind leap of faith, if its your favorite burger joint, you know its gonna be a good burger, otherwise it wouldnt be your favorite place to get them.

Just like I knew CO would be a great MMO, even if I dont like say pickle relish on my burger if you will.

I would have bought a lifetime sub then if I could have afforded it, based on the fact that its cryptic, and its a superhero mmo, considering the only MMOs I havent played more than a year after buying them have been korean grind fests like ****, L2, etc.

I wouldnt consider that a leap of faith.!

Just my opinion.

Some good points but remember that Although this is Cryptic it is not all the same people who created COH.

Personally I very much disliked COH and bought CO only because I hoped the IP wouldnt be butchered too badly. In other words the very things you state are reasons for why it shouldnt have been a leap of faith are actually exactly that for me.

[Archived Post]

Just for my opinion (not that it's worth too much)
I found that buying a lifetime before the game was out from a company I had not heard of at the time, it just set of way too many alarm bells for me.
Now that the game has stabilized a bit and is improving as it goes along I would like to buy a lifetime but wait! I lost the opportunity because I didn't want to throw down such a large ammount before I even knew if I'd like the game or not.
So yes I would like the opportunity to buy a lifetime please...

[Archived Post]

<looks in his wallet for some change>
Oh I hope not. That would be a bad idea, why? Well it has been stated in past posts, that life-timers applied for lifetime subscriptions from blind faith. Hoping the game will carry on from many years like CoH. Remember all the posts of life-timers turning in there subscriptions? Well too bad so sad, thanks for coming out - bye. Now Cryptic turns around and says “Thank you and here you go for your investment”. Thanks Cryptic!
This is why people are saying that some of the LTSers are elitist.

The LTS should be an option for people who love the game and can see themselves playing it for more than a year. It shouldn't be a used to make one group of players feel superior to the unwashed masses. :rolleyes: And it definitely shouldn't be something that rewards preferential treatment from the developers.

...And for the record:

I would not purchase a LTS as I know I would never get my money's worth. While I'm having an okay time at the moment, I don't see myself playing Champs in a few months time.

I don't think they should re-offer the LTS option going forward. It's not good for the long-term success of the game. It's great for a short-term cash influx, but in 1.5 years Cryptic will have to think of new ways to get revenue for the game(ie: less free content/more paid content).

[Archived Post]

Originaly I was pretty upset due to the vendor discounts. If your a completionist or an AF collector or what have you, that is not an insignificant bonus. After it was said that was unintended, no big deal.

The people who feel it should only be for lifers, well, thats your loss ultimately.

As others have stated, if all it is, is a place for JUST lifers to hang out, then for the most part, you will be missing out on much possible social interaction.

I would say it would be a good place to find SG recruits or what have you, but the fact is, lifers are not necisarily any more likely to stay playing constantly than anyone else. .

So, all things considered, I am no longer having issues with anything other than the select few who think there should be no interaction there except for lifers, forever, period, because IMO, thats just shortsighted.


This. For these reasons I agree.

Anyone who is commited and a veteran of the game should be able to enter. Maybe a year of playing or something...

Again, I thanks the devs, but it would be great for anyone to enter. If they re-open the chance for LTS and close them again, then we will have this arguement all over again by people who weren't here for the 2nd oppertunity. Thats why it would be cool to also get it as a vet reward.

[Archived Post]

I think people that will buy a lifetime sub now that the game is more stable would still do so without any of the perks. I know I would for say $140, give or take a little.

You should never get a lifetime subscription for even onepenny less than we leap-of-faith folks paid.

In fact, you should pay significantly MORE; the value is much more PROVEN and RELIABLE, so you're not paying nearly as much in terms of RISK.

[Archived Post]

I'm not sure I really buy this "blind leap of faith" line of thought, sounds like utter nonsense to me. Cryptic made CoX, a very sucesful game, good enough for NC to buy it off them and open a studio to manage it. They were already working on STO also right? They arent going anywhere. They are proven to be good at what they do.
But, Cryptic has never self-published before. They've never handled the billing side of an MMO before, either. AND, they've never had to run the customer-service part of the operation either. NC-Soft did all that for COH.

And really? Cryptic's inexperience in these areas shows. There are, for just one example, people who cancelled their accounts months ago, and Cryptic does indeed show the accounts as cancelled (and doesn't let the people in to play) ... yet, Cryptic has kept billing these people all along.

That actually presents a real risk of "closing the doors forever" happening, even now. For ALL of Cryptic, not just CO. Credit Fraud is no laughing matter. Intentional or not.

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That actually presents a real risk of "closing the doors forever" happening, even now. For ALL of Cryptic, not just CO. Credit Fraud is no laughing matter. Intentional or not.
By definition, fraud is intentional.

I'm not a lawyer, but I seriously doubt Cryptic could get in trouble for technical problems with their billing service... unless they failed to rectify the problem(ie: they refused to credit back charges that were made in error).

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But, Cryptic has never self-published before. They've never handled the billing side of an MMO before, either. AND, they've never had to run the customer-service part of the operation either. NC-Soft did all that for COH.

And really? Cryptic's inexperience in these areas shows. There are, for just one example, people who cancelled their accounts months ago, and Cryptic does indeed show the accounts as cancelled (and doesn't let the people in to play) ... yet, Cryptic has kept billing these people all along.

That actually presents a real risk of "closing the doors forever" happening, even now. For ALL of Cryptic, not just CO. Credit Fraud is no laughing matter. Intentional or not.

Aye, just thinking of the time after I bought my LTS...I really did think I bought passage on a sinking ship there for a while. Many LTSers were getting refunds and bailing, other forumites were bashing us for investing. The forums were at their darkest then, I think. With all the "I Quit" posts at that time and never much response from the Devs...it was crazy.

Also, the Devs seemed to not be involved or care (Perhaps they were working on STO) but there was much angst, frustration, and doubt. It was just recently that we started coming together as a community with the Devs on a "normal" basis.


I wonder how close we came to seeing this game get shut down. There were times I thought: Man, I hope this game lasts 12 months just so I feel I got my money's worth!!!

So yeah, when it comes to claiming that we didn't take a big leap of faith...guess again!:cool:

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I apologize if this has already been asked here -
I'm an LTS and my "Vanguard" forum title isn't showing. Is there something you need to do to kick it off?

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I'm not sure I really buy this "blind leap of faith" line of thought, sounds like utter nonsense to me. Cryptic made CoX, a very sucesful game, good enough for NC to buy it off them and open a studio to manage it. They were already working on STO also right? They arent going anywhere. They are proven to be good at what they do.


CoX was Cryptic's only successful game so far and that's a pretty lacking track record when compared to other companies that do churn out more than just one successful title. CO's longtime success has yet to be proven, not to mention STO's too.

It might not have been a blind leap of faith but it was a leap of faith nonetheless. In this age of MMO gaming where there are so many factors and uncertainties involved with long-term online gaming projects like MMORPGs. Coming to a decision to invest that amount of money in approximately a year's worth of subscription fees without being sure on whether the game would prosper or crash and burn down the road, if you tell me that it doesn't require faith, then you're deluded. There are enough examples out there that fit the latter outcome and they have been around before CO even came into existence.

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I apologize if this has already been asked here -
I'm an LTS and my "Vanguard" forum title isn't showing. Is there something you need to do to kick it off?

Go to: My Account - Miscellainious - Group Memberships

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I apologize if this has already been asked here -
I'm an LTS and my "Vanguard" forum title isn't showing. Is there something you need to do to kick it off?

[MY ACCOUNT] >>> [MISCELLANEOUS: Group Memberships]

^_^

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Thanks!

/10

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The LTS should be an option for people who love the game and can see themselves playing it for more than a year.

No it should be something Cryptic does because it's in their best interest to do so. Selling lifetime subs to people, especially people who are likely to play for more then a year means losing money. This is not something they should do simply because someone wants it.

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This is why people are saying that some of the LTSers are elitist.

The LTS should be an option for people who love the game and can see themselves playing it for more than a year. It shouldn't be a used to make one group of players feel superior to the unwashed masses. :rolleyes: And it definitely shouldn't be something that rewards preferential treatment from the developers.

...And for the record:

I would not purchase a LTS as I know I would never get my money's worth. While I'm having an okay time at the moment, I don't see myself playing Champs in a few months time.

I don't think they should re-offer the LTS option going forward. It's not good for the long-term success of the game. It's great for a short-term cash influx, but in 1.5 years Cryptic will have to think of new ways to get revenue for the game(ie: less free content/more paid content).

You are very correct, it does sound elitist and for that I apologize. Good English is not my first language. However, this lifetime subscription club was not made available to one class of player. Not the Carebears, or PVPers, or regulars on the forums ... it was made available to ALL players that wanted to purchase a lifetime sub. Again like you said about the preferential treatment ... I was a surprise to see that. I was just content to have the game free to play by January 2011 and hope it carries on. Maybe they are buttering the lifetime subscribers for a big strike down… “oh by the way lifetime sub is only good for the life of this game, we will be switching to Mega-Champions Online in February 2011, feel free to transfer your characters over and start paying up after the Champions Online servers are shut down.”

Again when you stated it should be an option for people that love the game and it was. Just like you said you didn’t nor would buy a lifetime sub. No problem there either, it is your choice. Remember Vibro Bay was supposed to be paid content. They already have it in the works, worse yet; the only way to get the Tier 4 powers was to complete Vibro Bay. So Cryptic was planning to make certain powers available only if you made the purchase. That begs to wonder if there will be an elemental zone to purchase and when you complete the crisis, you can unlock water and earth based powers. It will probably be around a lvl 25 zone.

Again sorry to be sounding elitist again, but I did put money down, every Lifetime Subscriber put a lot of money down and up front. To our surprise we are getting a thank you from Cryptic, and people are upset.

Aye, just thinking of the time after I bought my LTS...I really did think I bought passage on a sinking ship there for a while. Many LTSers were getting refunds and bailing, other forumites were bashing us for investing. The forums were at their darkest then, I think. With all the "I Quit" posts at that time and never much response from the Devs...it was crazy.

Also, the Devs seemed to not be involved or care (Perhaps they were working on STO) but there was much angst, frustration, and doubt. It was just recently that we started coming together as a community with the Devs on a "normal" basis.

I wonder how close we came to seeing this game get shut down. There were times I thought: Man, I hope this game lasts 12 months just so I feel I got my money's worth!!!

So yeah, when it comes to claiming that we didn't take a big leap of faith...guess again!:cool:

Well put and again this ship can still go down in this volatile market, who knows what will happen when DC MMO goes live. SOE has money and resources ... and they can create a very good game if they are paying attention. Starwars Galaxy is still running? 7 years give or take? Even though, imo, the game was fisted 7 days from Sunday from that major realignment way back when, but it is still going. SOE is, and will be, one of the powerhouses in the playground. What would you think would happen if they offered the same capabilities and game play as in CO but in a grander scale? Full cities? More power selections?

I don’t think we are out of the woods yet…

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[
Well put and again this ship can still go down in this volatile market, who knows what will happen when DC MMO goes live. SOE has money and resources ... and they can create a very good game if they are paying attention. Starwars Galaxy is still running? 7 years give or take? Even though, imo, the game was fisted 7 days from Sunday from that major realignment way back when, but it is still going. SOE is, and will be, one of the powerhouses in the playground. What would you think would happen if they offered the same capabilities and game play as in CO but in a grander scale? Full cities? More power selections?

I don’t think we are out of the woods yet…

Aye, this is true, but I definately feel better about it these days. The only reason SWG is still alive is because it is SWG...Sony really screwed that game up. (Lol...actually I like how you describe it!) :cool:

Sadly, even if Sony does a bad job with DCUO...well, it is the DC Universe so people may play it just for that. Yeah, I'm eager to see how DCUO affects the Super Hero MMO market.

Also, the bulk of the game will be FTP with the option to Sub for all the "Extras" from what I have read. None of that is solid fact, but thats the rumor going around...

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I really do like the idea of a tailor. If they want to bring back the idea of a discount..why not a discount at the tailor in the VIP longe?

I think it would be ok for lifers to be able to invite teammates into the lounge, but perhaps disable the bank/star refill/bartender/auction house (and if implemented taior functions).

Or heck, enable all but the bartender for all I care.

It's a nce thank you for us lifers. Naturally, there's going to be those who through a hissy fit whenever someone has something they can't have. Eventualyl they'll get alll sour grapes about it, or find something else unfair to shake the internet fist of rage about, and life wil go on.

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Tailor if anything!

VIP Lounge is great. :)

I would not mind having a tailor in there, not to get greedy. :)

Oh, more NPC's and NPC''s dancing. :)

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Aye, this is true, but I definately feel better about it these days. The only reason SWG is still alive is because it is SWG...Sony really screwed that game up. (Lol...actually I like how you describe it!) :cool:

Sadly, even if Sony does a bad job with DCUO...well, it is the DC Universe so people may play it just for that. Yeah, I'm eager to see how DCUO affects the Super Hero MMO market.

Also, the bulk of the game will be FTP with the option to Sub for all the "Extras" from what I have read. None of that is solid fact, but thats the rumor going around...

I agree with both you, and while choices are good - three super hero games might get close to saturation? Maybe not. Probably incenstive for all games to try harder?

One thing is that today it is really really hard to release a good game with lots of content.

I definitely agree DC will have a lot of hype and interest, for sure!

I'm a CO lifer and like where they are going, but I do play multiple MMORPG's often so I might try DC.

But I would never assume a SOE game is good until I have played it.

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Sorry for the necroing but had to search before making a topic. What's the status now of the VIP Lounge availability? I know Lifer's get it by default but I hear mixed instructions. One says 100 days old and another says 400.

I too wouldn't mind this being available in the C-Store for like say $5 or something, like what CoX did but cheaper of course.

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According to this page about veteran rewards (http://www.champions-online.com/veteran_rewards), it looks like 400 days. :)