View Full Version : Retcon feels like a scam
02-18-2010, 12:33 PM
I was doing some research to see if maybe you get retcon in the game through levels or missions and I came a across this article, (all be it a little out of date but none the less has some true information).
To sum up the article it was saying that Champions Online requires a lot of research rather then actually just learning thought the game. After reading that I realized just how much time I spend researching each power, its really disgusting. Im constantly using the CO builder and searching google and the forum for previous posts for just about every power I choose.
So I have 1 toon level 20 who I would like to pick up and start playing again, the problem is he's one of my first characters and im having trouble leveling since I did not do enough research the first time around and now am suck with these powers that don't work all that great for leveling. So I said hey im gonna buy a retcon so I can get into the grove again with all new powers, I look at the cryptic store to see the retcon is the most expensive item in the store costing 1000 points equaling 12.50$.
Honestly for 12.50 I'll just remake my character and level him to 20 again, however that doesn't solve that much since im sure ill run into the same problem again soon or later with the same toon or another one.
I would ask that instead of charging 1 single character 1000 points or 12.50$, I think since this game has a large customizable list of powers/customs, lowering the amount it costs for a retcon to 100 points or about 1.50$. This way I dont feel punished for not spending countless hours researching powers and stats and any mistakes made on a mid level toon don't result in his death.
Thank you, anyone else feel free to imput
02-18-2010, 01:58 PM
-Howdy. Three quick notes. What you find "really disgusting" others enjoy in terms of research and effort to learning ratio. I am of the latter category.
Second, i suggest you edit this post out and move it to the appropriate forum, audio feedback seems to be a bad fit. Perhaps the 'Suggestions' section would be more apt to get quality responses and not invite moderation.
Finally, you can also buy a retcon in game using resources. I had enough resources just last night to retcon completely a level 18 character and have a few silver left over. No loan required. Perhaps a bit more adventuring (even in areas a couple levels under yours) would yield enough resources to retcon.
02-18-2010, 02:23 PM
fortunately the PowerHouse lets you test powers extensively before leaving and commiting them.
02-18-2010, 03:01 PM
fortunately the PowerHouse lets you test powers extensively before leaving and commiting them.
bet me too it.
but i see what Op is saying. it only get worst at 40. however, it's live an learn.
02-18-2010, 05:18 PM
You get a free retcon on Live when you reach level 40.
You can retcon any character you copy over to the Public Test Server as many times as you'd like for free. To do this (after you get yourself sorted on PTS (http://forums.champions-online.com/showthread.php?t=90673)), just go to the Debugger fellow outside the Powerhouse in Millenium city, have him set your level to 40 (from anything other than 40). You'll get a free retcon.
You can then pop into the nearby Powerhouse and test whatever build you'd like for free.
02-18-2010, 05:34 PM
First Im not saying I'm against researching but to call it enjoyable meh, this isn't my first mmo and I tend to research my class and potential builds, however when it comes to champions it's over kill. Considering that there's no limits to what powers you can take it makes getting good builds an art, one can't just pick any power and expect to work, likewise your not really rewarded for sticking to 1 powerset either (apparently shadow form works better then ego form for tk). Getting through the tutorial should be enough to play the game and enjoy it, while future research should give you that edge making you a better player, I spent hours and hours researching and trying different builds and I don't feel like a pro.
Anyway back to retcons, yes the powerhouse is amazing you can see all the powers before leaving, however it doesn't accurately represt how the powers scale or how well they work in combat.
2 powers I can think of are telekineses and PPF, telekineses looks good on paper, hell even in the powerhouse it seems decent, but when it comes to battle it's akward and difficult to use.
PPF I read it's the worst of the 4 defensive powers but still useable, I tried it on a lvl 14 PA toon, and I used the wonderful powerhouse to test PPF, I used the lasers to test the damage and it did well so I picked it for the hell of it since it suits PA better then regen in terms of theme, but I go take on some mobs at my own level and it really can't hold it's own (not that I'm suprized), it acted like a boost to max hp rather then any defense, the powerhouse didn't simulate an acutal battle so making testing it pointless. (On the topic of powerhouse, it's not like they let you choose multiple powers to test, in this situation I would have liked to take PPF, Regen and Invun all at the same time and test it, it's rather annoying running back to trainer, unlearning, picking new power, testing, repeat).
Finally I'm saying for this complex power system to charge 12.50$ or basically 85% of my lvl20 toons resources for a second shot, seems high don't you.
Compared to WoW which costs at most 50 gold and it takes what 15 mins to farm 50 gold lol, and WoW is a game that doesn't need much respecting.
Edit: Wow I didnt mean to put it in audio feedback, must be too sleep deprived, if someone could move it then that would be nice lol.
02-18-2010, 06:51 PM
First off let me say that I do think full retcons can be a bit expensive if you do so with resources and I'll never pay good money to retcon a toon. However, with all the tools at our disposal I find it hard to complain.
Between being able to test in the powerhouse on the lasers and against multiple enemies in the danger room type area, you should have an idea of what a power can do before you leave if you spend the time testing it. Also, if you decide to take it and then change your mind before you buy any additional powers the cost is not that outrageous just to replace one power. Throw in the ability to test powers and builds on the test server and you now have unlimited retcons as someone mentioned earlier.
But there is a bigger picture. While I realize this is only a game, it is also superhero simulator if you will. You play a superhero going through their normal routine of saving the world everyday in a comic book type way. How many times have you seen Superman decide he doesn't like one of his powers and pop off to a powerhouse to change them. When was the last time that you saw Thor login to the Marvel store to buy a retcon cause he got tired of the whole hammer thing. It just doesn't happen. Many superheroes never know they're super till one day boom. Then they have to learn to use the powers they were given.
Try making a concept character and then learn to take advantage of what those powers can do instead of trying to build the ultimate min/max hero every time. Or at the very least, research a little first and plan ahead. Maybe just ask others what they think of powers or read the forums. If you do, then retconning should very seldom be necessary. And if you just decide you want to change something then you have a choice of using ingame resources or buying a retcon. Or if you can wait till you hit lvl 40 you get one for free. Isn't that awesome!
02-18-2010, 07:33 PM
Ok, not gonna quote your last post. It'll just take up too much space. It's right there. <points up>
1. I call the research and exploration of powers and combos enjoyable like Rattletrap does.
2. I was actually on my Telepathy toon night before last testing out telekinesis and...wow that power needs a mechanics adjustment(another time, another thread) but that power can easily be tested if you just call up some random mobs and try it out.
2b. As for PFF, have a toon with that too, I have never found those lasers(even in PHv1) to be anything more than useless. You want to test out PFF? Go generate easy mobs for a team of 5 and try to kill them with your Energy builder. No, you're not going to win but you can see about how long PFF works and see your survivability. Then you can turn the simulation up or down to compare. If you run 1 team of 3 henchmen, the 5 player group, and then a few sets inbetween it you see how it works out much more effectively than standing in front of that laser. Also, after that, you can start trying to win the fights and see how it works out in your overall build.
3. I don't see a problem with the 1k per retcon C-store thing. It's a luxury and not a necessity. It's a choice. If it was 12.50 for the right to progress past a certain level cap then I'd see your point, but there are alternatives and preventions which can make this all but unnecessary.
4. Compared to WoW....ok, 90% of the time this just doesn't work out. It's a phrase designed to generate more humor than accomplishment. The differences in the game type/mechanics/everything is just too dramatic to work. It's an Apples to Cold Fusion comparison.
5. The core of the reasoning behind making CO's retcon system intentionally not easy-mode is to cut down on the already rampant FoTM. I don't know if it's actually working, but it would probably be much much worse if a full retcon were 15G.
6. Besides, and be honest, if this game didn't require all this time and research then you'd have how many 40s by now? It's not like there's a plethora of Endgame content atm. ;)
02-18-2010, 07:41 PM
I'm closing this thread for being off-topic. This is the Audio Feedback forum. You're looking for the Powers Feedback forum. ;)